westred1 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 I play rugby and it is a dream of mine to play it professionally. Matt Stevens is a player that I would look at and say 'how lucky is he? England and Bath Rugby Star!' He recently failed a drug test and has admitted to taking drugs with friends and he said at the time he didn't think it was a big deal and has be dropped from the England squad and suspended from Bath and faces a lengthy ban. What example is this setting for youngsters? I think it's a disgrace that a potential role model has ruined his career because of drugs. He has a job as a professional sportsman that many of us could only dream of doing and he has thrown it all away by taking one substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Don't care what people do in their spare time. If it's not performance affecting it shouldn't be one of the things they tested for. If it's performance affecting he should be banned for life. The whole role model concept is b***ocks IMO. Anybody stupid enough to take drugs because their role model does is just an example of natural selection waiting to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Apparently loads of the rugger buggers are on coke. Not the first time I've heard the name of a Bath rugby player and drugs in the same sentence either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Apparently loads of the rugger buggers are on coke. Not the first time I've heard the name of a Bath rugby player and drugs in the same sentence either. So do loads of footballers. From what I understand it doesn't stay in the system very long so you're very unlikely to get caught for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 So do loads of footballers. From what I understand it doesn't stay in the system very long so you're very unlikely to get caught for it. And it makes your willy shrivel up, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Why is it unacceptable for sports professionals to do drugs, but perfectly OK and ENCOURAGED for writers, musicians, film makers to do them. Double standards, ###### hypocrisy. Let me do drugs if they like, its their life so **** it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freezer Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Why is it unacceptable for sports professionals to do drugs, but perfectly OK and ENCOURAGED for writers, musicians, film makers to do them. Double standards, ###### hypocrisy. Let me do drugs if they like, its their life so **** it. Correctumundo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laner Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Why is it unacceptable for sports professionals to do drugs, but perfectly OK and ENCOURAGED for writers, musicians, film makers to do them. Double standards, ###### hypocrisy. Let me do drugs if they like, its their life so **** it. The 'Double Standard' has something to do with the fact that people actually watch sportsman and women ply their trade in a live situation whereas for the most part with writers, musicians and film makers we only see the end product. If you'd just paid good money to watch a footballer, rugby player etc. and they'd put a below par performance would you be happy then knowing he's be coked up a night or two ago? I wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 So do loads of footballers. From what I understand it doesn't stay in the system very long so you're very unlikely to get caught for it. There are different factors. Cocaine effects can last from 20 minutes to several hours, depending upon the dosage of cocaine taken, purity, and the way its taken. Its half life (the time it stays in the body) therefore varies. For a pro sportsman to caught for coke suggests that infusion of the drug by whatever means was fairly close to the test sample being taken - thats is unlikely if the sportsman has any brains and common sense and is trying to avoid detection. Its therefore more likely that Stevens was not done for cocaine but another 'recreational' drug. Cannabis maybe, which has an extremely long half life of upto 3 weeks in some cases. It would be hard to fool any dope testing with a half life that long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 The 'Double Standard' has something to do with the fact that people actually watch sportsman and women ply their trade in a live situation whereas for the most part with writers, musicians and film makers we only see the end product. If you'd just paid good money to watch a footballer, rugby player etc. and they'd put a below par performance would you be happy then knowing he's be coked up a night or two ago? I wouldn't. I take your point, but i wouldn't honestly give a flying. My point is its the individuals life to do with as they please, if a footballer what to snort coke that's fine by me, not sure how long his career will last, but the point is its their decision to do so. The money the world spends on trying in vein to stop people taking drugs is riducluas, if drugs were leaaglized, controlled and taxed substances you would instantly remove the cartels and shady drug dealers, thus saving lives, money and a whole lot of grief and time. Politicians could never bring themselves to do it though, its too straight forward. The sooner we legalize all drugs the better for everyone, why they are banned i honestly don't know, cocaine and heroine among other drugs have excellent medical quality's, so does marijuana, yet alcohol is perfectly acceptable. double standards again. You goto A&E on a Friday night and you'll see what alcohol does to people, how many people in A&E are there from smoking weed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 The sooner we legalize all drugs the better for everyone, why they are banned i honestly don't know, cocaine and heroine among other drugs have excellent medical quality's, so does marijuana, yet alcohol is perfectly acceptable. double standards again. What? You honestly think heroin should be legalised? I agree with your point about A&E being full up with people who cant handle their drink on the weekends, but my brother was hospitalised because someone decided to kick the crap out of him for his last tenner so he could go and get his heroin fix, so even if it doesnt put people in hospital directly - which it does - it can still have other consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 What? You honestly think heroin should be legalised? I agree with your point about A&E being full up with people who cant handle their drink on the weekends, but my brother was hospitalised because someone decided to kick the crap out of him for his last tenner so he could go and get his heroin fix, so even if it doesnt put people in hospital directly - which it does - it can still have other consequences. Yes absolutely. The sooner we can accept this as a society the better off we will all be. By legalizing drugs you take away the criminal element and to an extent the drug lords, the pushers, the seedy disgusting people who use young girls and force them into prostitution so to keep their addiction. People would no longer need to go out and commit crime to feed their habit. Heroine is very cheap to produce and it should be given for free to the very worst offenders at least, these people who need to mug people like your brother every day to feed their addiction, this would end...instantly. If drugs were made legal they could be controlled, it honestly is that simple. There is a strange and dangerous theory that if drugs were legalized everyone would go out and become addicts, its absurd and research suggests it is not the case, on the contray, it would change the world for the better. No drug dealers, no crime. no need to steal. So why is it still punishable by a prison sentence? Really messed up world we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Yes absolutely. The sooner we can accept this as a society the better off we will all be. By legalizing drugs you take away the criminal element and to an extent the drug lords, the pushers, the seedy disgusting people who use young girls and force them into prostitution so to keep their addiction. People would no longer need to go out and commit crime to feed their habit. Heroine is very cheap to produce and it should be given for free to the very worst offenders at least, these people who need to mug people like your brother every day to feed their addiction, this would end...instantly. If drugs were made legal they could be controlled, it honestly is that simple. There is a strange and dangerous theory that if drugs were legalized everyone would go out and become addicts, its absurd and research suggests it is not the case, on the contray, it would change the world for the better. No drug dealers, no crime. no need to steal. So why is it still punishable by a prison sentence? Really messed up world we live in. Ever worked with drug addicts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 What? You honestly think heroin should be legalised? I agree with your point about A&E being full up with people who cant handle their drink on the weekends, but my brother was hospitalised because someone decided to kick the crap out of him for his last tenner so he could go and get his heroin fix, so even if it doesnt put people in hospital directly - which it does - it can still have other consequences. I'd say what happened to your brother is almost an argument for legalisation. The only reason drugs are so expensive is that they're illegal. Heroin is cheap as chips to produce otherwise. Take the criminal element out, sell it at pharmacies and you have quite a few benefits: - organised crime has vastly less income - petty crime reduces as addicts don't have to pay so much for a fix - police can retarget resources - addicts are known by health authorities and can get help The only down side comes if you think that legalising them leads to an increase in use. I don't think that will happen if you educate people properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I'd say what happened to your brother is almost an argument for legalisation. The only reason drugs are so expensive is that they're illegal. Heroin is cheap as chips to produce otherwise. Take the criminal element out, sell it at pharmacies and you have quite a few benefits: - organised crime has vastly less income So move on to other things - petty crime reduces as addicts don't have to pay so much for a fix no it wont. Methadone usage does not reduce petty crime - police can retarget resources Onto what the gangs have moved onto then... - addicts are known by health authorities and can get help They already are and do get help, its costly and not enough The only down side comes if you think that legalising them leads to an increase in use. I don't think that will happen if you educate people properly. The only downside??? Aside from the health risks, explosion in domestic violence, mental health issues and missuse. Righto. Sorry to get all bristol boy with the bold, just found it easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Ever worked with drug addicts? Not in a professional way no, what you getting at moomin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Because I wanted to know what you base your whole post on to be honest. You make it sound like legalising drugs would lead to a Utopia. Utter rubbish in my view, as I have set out in response to Nibors post. You can not use reason when it comes to life, and mind altering substances, because the people who suffer from them do not act in a resonable way. There will always be an illeagal drug for the pushers to shift - Crystal Meth for example. Do you seriously suggest a drug like that should be sold over the counter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Methodone isn't heroin and doesn't give the same euphoria which is why smackheads don't stick with it. Give em heroin over the counter at a fraction of the price dealers sell it and at least dealers won't have that money and they won't be out nicking and mugging as much. Organised crime will obviously look for other ways to make money but the drugs trade is a giant part of their income, their income is a big part of what makes them dangerous and there isn't really anything else they can do that will generate the same. Instead of having police trying to track down small time dealers and follow supply chains those resources can be targetted at the people at the top. If you read some of the opinion of retired FBI and senior police officers who've worked against organised crime they largely concur that legalising drugs would be a massive blow to them and going after the money is the best way to get them - like tax evasion law being used to jail mafia in the USA. The other problems you mention already exist with people using drugs, they only get worse if you accept that legalising makes more people use or users use more. I don't think that's the case. I think it would allow health services to target help better and treat addicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Nibor, they don't stick with it because when they get on treatment programs, they're still stuck in the same community, with no hope or no aspirations. The phrase "With friends like these..." rings so true in this case. I've known many addicts in the past who would love to get on methadone programs, and they all say it would be far easier to stay off of the real stuff IF they weren't stuck seeing the same people day after day. Organised crime will continue to sell illegal substances, the example of crystal meth is one I have given, and you can be sure there would be more. There is also the example of the black-market for prescribed drugs. Again this is something that people would move into, so drugs would still be available to those who want to push on the streets. You mention that drug use would fall with more education. It's hardly worked with coke, and class A abuse has been a constant despite EVERYONE knowing the risks. A well known book called "Gangs" contains two examples of where the author tries smack, and crack - he maintains the euphoria of both is the most amazing feeling, do you seriously think such a hit would be turned down if offered by a friend and it was legal! The use would rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 For a pro sportsman to caught for coke suggests that infusion of the drug by whatever means was fairly close to the test sample being taken - thats is unlikely if the sportsman has any brains and common sense and is trying to avoid detection. Its therefore more likely that Stevens was not done for cocaine but another 'recreational' drug. Cannabis maybe, which has an extremely long half life of upto 3 weeks in some cases. It would be hard to fool any dope testing with a half life that long. It was coke. In his interview he basically said he was addicted to the drug and had already been to councelling. Hence he wouldn't have been in a state of mind that he was thinking 'oh no what if I get caught'. All reasoning goes out the window if you're addicted to something like that. Legalising heroin, coke, crack is utter lunacy. Simple as that really. Get some engineers and scientists to develop the drugs so that there's no adverse side effects and then maybe we'll talk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Nibor, they don't stick with it because when they get on treatment programs, they're still stuck in the same community, with no hope or no aspirations. The phrase "With friends like these..." rings so true in this case. I've known many addicts in the past who would love to get on methadone programs, and they all say it would be far easier to stay off of the real stuff IF they weren't stuck seeing the same people day after day. Organised crime will continue to sell illegal substances, the example of crystal meth is one I have given, and you can be sure there would be more. There is also the example of the black-market for prescribed drugs. Again this is something that people would move into, so drugs would still be available to those who want to push on the streets. You mention that drug use would fall with more education. It's hardly worked with coke, and class A abuse has been a constant despite EVERYONE knowing the risks. A well known book called "Gangs" contains two examples of where the author tries smack, and crack - he maintains the euphoria of both is the most amazing feeling, do you seriously think such a hit would be turned down if offered by a friend and it was legal! The use would rise. I take your points Moomin and agree, its not a Utopian picture i want to paint, just a more realistic approach the issue. First we must understand that Legally or illegally people will always take drugs, like prostitution its just never going to go away. You could spend the entire worlds GDP to fight it and it would be a totally pointless exercise. So, I think the sooner we can swallow this hard fact and accept drugs are an unfortunate part of society the sooner we can move on, and for the better. The money saved from fighting the cartels and littering the prisons with drug users and pushers could educate the next generation about drugs and the dangers of it. The money and lives saved would be astronomical. Lets not fight it, lets control and tax it. Its almost criminal its illegal imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 First we must understand that Legally or illegally people will always take drugs, like prostitution its just never going to go away. Prostitution is definitely doing more harm than good being illegal. Drugs though, you seem to be ignoring the health risks and side effects?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 I take your points Moomin and agree, its not a Utopian picture i want to paint, just a more realistic approach the issue. First we must understand that Legally or illegally people will always take drugs, like prostitution its just never going to go away. You could spend the entire worlds GDP to fight it and it would be a totally pointless exercise. So, I think the sooner we can swallow this hard fact and accept drugs are an unfortunate part of society the sooner we can move on, and for the better. The money saved from fighting the cartels and littering the prisons with drug users and pushers could educate the next generation about drugs and the dangers of it. The money and lives saved would be astronomical. Lets not fight it, lets control and tax it. Its almost criminal its illegal imo. Fair enough chap, you make some good points, but I can't see myself, or the majority ever holding the same view as you for decades to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Did anyone notice how little coverage this got? About page 10, on the side in The Sun. If it was a english international, then all hell would break loose. Another example why the media think rugby players are saints Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Colby-Tit Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 So - everyone is disgusted that he snorted coke but when rugby players go out and drink 20 pints it's good natured fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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