Trundle And Beckford

[Bris Red]

Trundle isn't the business in this league and bar a few good performances as sub he has looked very average. His level appears to be better than league 1 but not quite good enough for championship.

I wish he could have been the player we hoped he would be but sadly not.

He has tried hard and done his best, but it's short of what we need up front, championship defenders are more streetwise than league 1 defenders and know to keep the ball off his left, and you stop his threat.

My thoughts exactly, Trundle lies somewere between league 1 and the championhsip but like you have said he is not good enough consitently in the championship i honestly think Scotland would suit Trundle . Maybe a few years ago when he was in his prime 26/27 he would have been good enough, but i think he has left it far to late on in his career to be a sucess at this level.

Many people are saying bring him back but i think the best for thing for Trunds and us is for him to leave and sign permanantly for Leeds. There fans are raving about him know but IF they gain promotion they will soon realise he wont be good enough.

[cheese]

lee trundle is my friend

Good for you.

Does he know?

[Guest]

My thoughts exactly, Trundle lies somewere between league 1 and the championhsip but like you have said he is not good enough consitently in the championship i honestly think Scotland would suit Trundle . Maybe a few years ago when he was in his prime 26/27 he would have been good enough, but i think he has left it far to late on in his career to be a sucess at this level.

Many people are saying bring him back but i think the best for thing for Trunds and us is for him to leave and sign permanantly for Leeds. There fans are raving about him know but IF they gain promotion they will soon realise he wont be good enough.

Maybe if he played every game, like some; he may of made a better show; Trundle has class and it shows.

[cityfan]

It's down to style of play. We simply don't play to his strengths and without doing so you will not get the best out of any player/employee.

People should stop slagging off Trundle about he has had his chance and he's too slow. Mentally he is quicker than anyone in our squad which is speed of mind and can leave a player for dead, regardless of leg pace. And he hasn't had a consistent chance to play his way, end of!

Trundle is still a quality player who is capable in the Championship. Bring him back and play him

[Barrs Court Red]

The only thing Trundles done here (Apart from the Palace goal, a good game against S****horpe and a decen half against Plymouth) is declare his love for Swansea.

You only need to see the comments from other City players about John, to see why he's preferd to Trundle. It's not a coincidence Maynard and Sproule have performed far better with him in the side - And yes he is lazey.

[Barrs Court Red]

Mentally he is quicker than anyone in our squad which is speed of mind and can leave a player for dead, regardless of leg pace. And he hasn't had a consistent chance to play his way, end of!

Strange that he's never managed to do this in the Championship....

[Guest]

It's down to style of play. We simply don't play to his strengths and without doing so you will not get the best out of any player/employee.

People should stop slagging off Trundle about he has had his chance and he's too slow. Mentally he is quicker than anyone in our squad which is speed of mind and can leave a player for dead, regardless of leg pace. And he hasn't had a consistent chance to play his way, end of!

Trundle is still a quality player who is capable in the Championship. Bring him back and play him

To right, did not Swansea say it was him they were wary of recently? many championship defenders are wary of LT i.m.h.o. Sorry but I cannot see the point of bringing someone in who has never played in this div and send someone of LT`s skill and flair to Leeds who must of thought it was xmas again.

[bh red]

Trundle was always going to do well at Leeds, to be honest I think he was always going to do well wherever he went, if he was played to his strengths on a regular basis.

I think with him and Beckford up front now, we will no doubt be seeing them both at Ashton Gate for Leeds next season, be interesting to see how he does......I'm sure the comments on here, will be interesting before and after any games.

[Red Ass]

We should have brought in Andy Robinson from Swansea when we bought Trunds, They always seem to play extremely well when they are both in the same side.

I think they are both the best of mates too... Although it would seem the are both partial to the odd pie!

[SJC]

I don't think people en masse are necessarily 'slagging off' Trundle, more that they feel he has not produced consistently in his time here.

For example I disagree that Trundle 'changes games' and I think that, whilst we have tended to adopt a style of play which doesnt suit him, a Championship level player should be able to adapt and acquit himself better than he has. However I'm certainly not 'slagging him off', just because I disagree with those that promote him does not mean I'm necessarily, as such, being critical of him.

I don't think he 'changes games', however I also don't think he should be expected to or judged on his ability to do so as that is incredibly unreasonable. Very few players {at any level} genuinely possess the ability to come off the bench and change the game, just because I disagree with those that say he does doesnt mean I'm being critical (for example.)

[big p]

I don't think people en masse are necessarily 'slagging off' Trundle, more that they feel he has not produced consistently in his time here.

For example I disagree that Trundle 'changes games' and I think that, whilst we have tended to adopt a style of play which doesnt suit him, a Championship level player should be able to adapt and acquit himself better than he has. However I'm certainly not 'slagging him off', just because I disagree with those that promote him does not mean I'm necessarily, as such, being critical of him.

I don't think he 'changes games', however I also don't think he should be expected to or judged on his ability to do so as that is incredibly unreasonable. Very few players {at any level} genuinely possess the ability to come off the bench and change the game, just because I disagree with those that say he does doesnt mean I'm being critical (for example.)

Hes a crowd favourite and GJ doesnt like crowd favourites,end of.yes he did used to change the game when he played,don't know if you go down much but the crowd used to erupt when he came on which gave the team a boost.

I predicted that as soon as trunds played well the GJ do gooders would say"its only league 1" and like sheep they have.well it hasnt taken him long has it.I hope he does well at Leeds,he wont want to come back and who can blame him ,he was constantly overlooked and when he did play he was expected to save the game whilst played out of position.All this while there other members of the team which are always picked reguadlessof there fitness and performance.

Most skill full player weve had for years.

[cheese]

Hes a crowd favourite and GJ doesnt like crowd favourites,end of.yes he did used to change the game when he played,don't know if you go down much but the crowd used to erupt when he came on which gave the team a boost.

I predicted that as soon as trunds played well the GJ do gooders would say"its only league 1" and like sheep they have.well it hasnt taken him long has it.I hope he does well at Leeds,he wont want to come back and who can blame him ,he was constantly overlooked and when he did play he was expected to save the game whilst played out of position.All this while there other members of the team which are always picked reguadlessof there fitness and performance.

Most skill full player weve had for years.

[windmillhillred]

Hes a crowd favourite and GJ doesnt like crowd favourites,end of.

Basso?!

yes he did used to change the game when he played,don't know if you go down much but the crowd used to erupt when he came on which gave the team a boost.

not much actual evidence for that to be fair - someone like Byfield actually popped up with a fair number of late goals. Not the case with Trunds.

I predicted that as soon as trunds played well the GJ do gooders would say"its only league 1" and like sheep they have.

The point, though, is that it is only league one. Everyone knows he is a quality league one player, he is proven at that level. He is not proven in the championship, simple as that. There is no factual argument against that.

I hope he does well at Leeds

So do I.

he wont want to come back and who can blame him

He probably won't. Saves a lot on the wage bill at the end of the day.

he was constantly overlooked

Nope, he wasn't. He just wasn't guaranteed a first team place. His record at City shows that he doesn't warrant one. Great squad player, but not on £10k a week or whatever.

when he did play he was expected to save the game

Unless you're Gary Johnson, you don't know what was expected of him.

[chinapig]

Hes a crowd favourite and GJ doesnt like crowd favourites,end of.yes he did used to change the game when he played,don't know if you go down much but the crowd used to erupt when he came on which gave the team a boost.

I predicted that as soon as trunds played well the GJ do gooders would say"its only league 1" and like sheep they have.well it hasnt taken him long has it.I hope he does well at Leeds,he wont want to come back and who can blame him ,he was constantly overlooked and when he did play he was expected to save the game whilst played out of position.All this while there other members of the team which are always picked reguadlessof there fitness and performance.

Most skill full player weve had for years.

Ah, another who purports to read the Manager's mind. There does seem to be a vocal minority claiming to know his motivations and who are in a state of constant barely repressed rage at him. Also an object lesson in re-writing history. Lee has had plenty of games as a striker and delivered only occasionally, despite his undoubted skill. He has shown neither the pace nor the strength as yet to cope at Championship level. From what I've seen you need one or the other. The fact is he is playing in League 1 at the moment, the level at which he has long since proved himself a very successful operator. I admire Lee as a player and a good pro and would still love him to make the grade. So far he has not.

[sunningdalered]

Hes a crowd favourite and GJ doesnt like crowd favourites,end of.yes he did used to change the game when he played,don't know if you go down much but the crowd used to erupt when he came on which gave the team a boost.

I predicted that as soon as trunds played well the GJ do gooders would say"its only league 1" and like sheep they have.well it hasnt taken him long has it.I hope he does well at Leeds,he wont want to come back and who can blame him ,he was constantly overlooked and when he did play he was expected to save the game whilst played out of position.All this while there other members of the team which are always picked reguadlessof there fitness and performance.

Most skill full player weve had for years.

You're entitled to your view big p - but really, whatever it is that annoys you so much is completely distorting your outlook on things. Others have already dismantled each line of your post - the stuff about GJ not liking crowd favourites, and Trunds not getting enough chances is complete fiction.

Trunds probably only has a couple more years left at any sort of level - I think he should stay at div1 level where his lack of pace is not so important and he can bask in the adulation he gets wherever he goes at that level. Why not just enjoy himself without the pressure of trying to prove 'he's still got it' every week. It's not like he needs the money!!

[bh red]

yes he did used to change the game when he played,don't know if you go down much but the crowd used to erupt when he came on which gave the team a boost.

I predicted that as soon as trunds played well the GJ do gooders would say"its only league 1" and like sheep they have.well it hasnt taken him long has it.I hope he does well at Leeds,he wont want to come back and who can blame him ,he was constantly overlooked and when he did play he was expected to save the game whilst played out of position.All this while there other members of the team which are always picked reguadlessof there fitness and performance.

Most skill full player weve had for years.

I'd agree with most of that, he'd make a difference when he came on more often than not (Brum, Reading and Plymouth all games where we improved when he came on the pitch) the atmosphere would also improve the moment he came on the pitch because he'd provide entertainment and will actually be willing to give his all on the pitch, fans will always love an entertainer.

Lee was always going to be a success away from City and he's walked straight into a bigger club like Leeds where the pressure is like few other clubs and he's instantly made an impact, to be honest this season when actually played he's nearly always made an instant impact, more so than some others so far who have replaced him.

But as you say the normal sheep have instantay slated him and agree with every single decision Gary makes, totally overlooking the fact that Gary's failed to get the best out of a player that cost a £1m in transfer fee and maybe twice as much as that again in wages. That is Gary's fault.....however the normal sheep won't agree.

He needs to get his next couple of signings right

[chinapig]

I'd agree with most of that, he'd make a difference when he came on more often than not (Brum, Reading and Plymouth all games where we improved when he came on the pitch) the atmosphere would also improve the moment he came on the pitch because he'd provide entertainment and will actually be willing to give his all on the pitch, fans will always love an entertainer.

Lee was always going to be a success away from City and he's walked straight into a bigger club like Leeds where the pressure is like few other clubs and he's instantly made an impact, to be honest this season when actually played he's nearly always made an instant impact, more so than some others so far who have replaced him.

But as you say the normal sheep have instantay slated him and agree with every single decision Gary makes, totally overlooking the fact that Gary's failed to get the best out of a player that cost a £1m in transfer fee and maybe twice as much as that again in wages. That is Gary's fault.....however the normal sheep won't agree.

He needs to get his next couple of signings right

So presumably if any other player doesn't deliver it will be ok to say it's not their fault, the manager has not got the best out of them? Alternatively, at what point does the player have to take some responsibility? I don't see anybody slagging off Lee (certainly not me as I admire him as a player and a genuine guy) but his record so far at Championship level is there for all to see. Where was all this support for him last season when he was getting regularly criticised on here? As to being a success at Leeds he has played what, 3 games? Bit early to judge I would think. Mind you we do get players written off on here after a similar number of games so why not?

[edson]

I'd agree with most of that, he'd make a difference when he came on more often than not (Brum, Reading and Plymouth all games where we improved when he came on the pitch) the atmosphere would also improve the moment he came on the pitch because he'd provide entertainment and will actually be willing to give his all on the pitch, fans will always love an entertainer.

Lee was always going to be a success away from City and he's walked straight into a bigger club like Leeds where the pressure is like few other clubs and he's instantly made an impact, to be honest this season when actually played he's nearly always made an instant impact, more so than some others so far who have replaced him.

But as you say the normal sheep have instantay slated him and agree with every single decision Gary makes, totally overlooking the fact that Gary's failed to get the best out of a player that cost a £1m in transfer fee and maybe twice as much as that again in wages. That is Gary's fault.....however the normal sheep won't agree.

He needs to get his next couple of signings right

Why is someone a sheep for believing Trundle is better suited to League One than the Championship?

Does that make you a sheep for talking in glowing terms about a player doing well at Leeds when you haven't even seen him play for them?

He needs to get his next couple of signings right

Or what?

[bully]

failed to get the best out of a player that cost a £1m in transfer fee and maybe twice as much as that again in wages. That is Gary's fault.....however the normal sheep won't agree.

He needs to get his next couple of signings right

I like LT but the manager clearly doesn't see him as a first choice when others are available - and hasn't done for over a year.

£1m plus wages is a big mistake for a club like us. All managers make them, but I really hope for LT and City, that Leeds will look to keep him, although I can't see us getting anything in a transfer fee, if Lee's wages are to be fully met at the other end.

Leeds are a big club, but they are only league 1 and I can't imagine anyone being paid around £10k per week unless they were relegated on that money.

That will at least cover Stern John's costs to the end of the season.

[MenBehavingBadly]

We haven't played to LTs strengths. Too often he's been given the ball with his back to goal, chest high 20 yards out with 3 defenders around him and 10 minutes to go. We could give that service to Ronaldo or Kaka and the results would be the same.

The last month or so we've played much much better as a team and we've been assisting our strikers create chances rather than giving them the ball and hoping they create everything themselves. I would of liked LT to have had this kind of service with a run in the team and then we can all sit here and debate his championship ability then.

Alas, this is not to be. I wish LT well at Leeds and hope he's getting the quality of service there that he didn't get here. Ultimately, I'd love him back here turning defenders inside out with the ball at his feet not on his chest.

[bh red]

Why is someone a sheep for believing Trundle is better suited to League One than the Championship?

Does that make you a sheep for talking in glowing terms about a player doing well at Leeds when you haven't even seen him play for them?

No I haven't seen him play, but in the 2 games he's started, they are unbeaten and he's got one goal and one assist and he's also had Phil Thompson raving about him and Beckford's excellent partnership on saturday, obviously it's only league one level, but he's playing and doing well and played 80mins+ in both game, many just feel that he's not had a fair go this season unlike some others and that basically since he's joined we barely played to his strengths and by the time we did, He was no longer Gary's flavour of the motnh

Or what?

or form/results could suffer and then no doubt a number of people will be asking further questions about his transfer, which in many cases at the moment is unfair, with players likely leaving between now and end of window, replacements need to be better than what we currently have.

I don't think many could say that about Stlvar at the moment, though obviously it is too early to fairly judge and the less about Stern John the better, and Williams isn't fit enough to be a replacement for Alex Russell let alone Nick Carle (though obviously he was never a replacement for him) webster was basically a replacement for Vasko and was a step backwards without doubt.

His recent signing record isn't the best to be honest. Maynard being the only good signing but was a panic buy in that we paid nearly twice as much as he was worth and as we wanted to, but we're always going to recoup that long term.

[red man dan]

Hes a crowd favourite and GJ doesnt like crowd favourites,end of.yes he did used to change the game when he played,don't know if you go down much but the crowd used to erupt when he came on which gave the team a boost.

I predicted that as soon as trunds played well the GJ do gooders would say"its only league 1" and like sheep they have.well it hasnt taken him long has it.I hope he does well at Leeds,he wont want to come back and who can blame him ,he was constantly overlooked and when he did play he was expected to save the game whilst played out of position.All this while there other members of the team which are always picked reguadlessof there fitness and performance.

Most skill full player weve had for years.

But as you say the normal sheep have instantay slated him and agree with every single decision Gary makes, totally overlooking the fact that Gary's failed to get the best out of a player that cost a £1m in transfer fee and maybe twice as much as that again in wages. That is Gary's fault.....however the normal sheep won't agree.

He needs to get his next couple of signings right

Sheep? I find it quite strange that those who are commenting on and referring to the 'FACTS' are then labelled sheep. Sheep in the context of the 'following the crowd nature ' are said to follow blindly, which is very contradictory in this issue seeing as Lee Trundle IS playing in league One. That is the fact, you cannot argue that. So what is it, us sheep, are not seeing here? He is playing well in league one for leeds, in a standard we know he can perform in, have never doubted he can perform in, and in saying so how is that either being blind or slating the player???

I would say, that more to the point, those who feel this performance at this level somehow proves he's good enough for the for the championship and that its GJ's fault for him not doing so are the blind ones and therefore the LT sheep, as there are no hard facts for this and its based on theoretical possibilities. They are the ones who are not seeing the facts, which are that he does not deliver for us in the Championship, he does not score, and rarely creates anything other than a misguided excitement amongst some in the crowd.

[bh red]

Sheep? I find it quite strange that those who are commenting on and referring to the 'FACTS' are then labelled sheep. Sheep in the context of the 'following the crowd nature ' are said to follow blindly, which is very contradictory in this issue seeing as Lee Trundle IS playing in league One. That is the fact, you cannot argue that. So what is it, us sheep, are not seeing here? He is playing well in league one for leeds, in a standard we know he can perform in, have never doubted he can perform in, and in saying so how is that either being blind or slating the player???

I would say, that more to the point, those who feel this performance at this level somehow proves he's good enough for the for the championship and that its GJ's fault for him not doing so are the blind ones and therefore the LT sheep, as there are no hard facts for this and its based on theoretical possibilities. They are the ones who are not seeing the facts, which are that he does not deliver for us in the Championship, he does not score, and rarely creates anything other than a misguided excitement amongst some in the crowd.

Maynard plays and is top scorer.....that's a given...but after that, who's been our best forward this season and who's been doing well

John - No....dreadful loan signing

Brooker - Nope, barely fit

Styvar - Too early to fairly judge or even bring into the equation

Trundle - when actually played (which isn't much) has been mixed in that he's had many good games, many average games

Adebola - Played alot again mixed bag, some good games, some average games.

both Trundle and Adebola have come on in games and turned them around....

leaves Dele and Trundle......Dele has got more goals and assists no doubt, but looking at the amount more game's he played more, he bloody should do,

I'm not saying Trundle should be starting week in week out, but I does anyone actually believe than Stern John is a better option than Trundle? I bloody eck don't' and know of some who would agree with me,

Personally prior to Jan window, most weeks I would have been going week in week out with Maynard and one of Trundle/Dele fitness depending, but that barely appeared to be the case and even if Trundle did come on and turn a game which he's done on a number of occasions this season, he then doesn't get a look in for the following game......if that fair?

I've always been of the motto of "play your best team and your in-form players" I don't think that's happened on many occasiosn this season.

[chinapig]

Maynard plays and is top scorer.....that's a given...but after that, who's been our best forward this season and who's been doing well

John - No....dreadful loan signing

Brooker - Nope, barely fit

Styvar - Too early to fairly judge or even bring into the equation

Trundle - when actually played (which isn't much) has been mixed in that he's had many good games, many average games

Adebola - Played alot again mixed bag, some good games, some average games.

both Trundle and Adebola have come on in games and turned them around....

leaves Dele and Trundle......Dele has got more goals and assists no doubt, but looking at the amount more game's he played more, he bloody should do,

I'm not saying Trundle should be starting week in week out, but I does anyone actually believe than Stern John is a better option than Trundle? I bloody eck don't' and know of some who would agree with me,

Personally prior to Jan window, most weeks I would have been going week in week out with Maynard and one of Trundle/Dele fitness depending, but that barely appeared to be the case and even if Trundle did come on and turn a game which he's done on a number of occasions this season, he then doesn't get a look in for the following game......if that fair?

I've always been of the motto of "play your best team and your in-form players" I don't think that's happened on many occasiosn this season.

Whether I agree with your are not you have at least put forward a rational case, not represented opinion as fact and not abused either the manager or those who disagree with you. A breath of fresh air.

[big p]

youve only got to hear the crowd when he comes on.Are the crowd wrong?If you ask most people at the gate they would love to see Trundle start up front with maynard and form a partnership,not left midfield,up front and given a good run.Ive never heard the crowd jear Trundle, never.But Ive heard the crowd jear other players.But the 10,000 crowd which cheer Trundle must be wrong according to some people on here.

[red man dan]

Maynard plays and is top scorer.....that's a given...but after that, who's been our best forward this season and who's been doing well

John - No....dreadful loan signing

Brooker - Nope, barely fit

Styvar - Too early to fairly judge or even bring into the equation

Trundle - when actually played (which isn't much) has been mixed in that he's had many good games, many average games

Adebola - Played alot again mixed bag, some good games, some average games.

both Trundle and Adebola have come on in games and turned them around....

leaves Dele and Trundle......Dele has got more goals and assists no doubt, but looking at the amount more game's he played more, he bloody should do,

I'm not saying Trundle should be starting week in week out, but I does anyone actually believe than Stern John is a better option than Trundle? I bloody eck don't' and know of some who would agree with me,

Personally prior to Jan window, most weeks I would have been going week in week out with Maynard and one of Trundle/Dele fitness depending, but that barely appeared to be the case and even if Trundle did come on and turn a game which he's done on a number of occasions this season, he then doesn't get a look in for the following game......if that fair?

I've always been of the motto of "play your best team and your in-form players" I don't think that's happened on many occasiosn this season.

AM,

My grievence was not with your opinion, it was with the fact that you agreed with the labelling of those whose stated the facts about LT(regarding his performace in a league One and his record for us in the Champ), as being sheep. Your above post however offers some opinion, which i happen to disagree with.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your evaluation of Stern John. For the record, at first, he frustrated me immensely and on judging a book by its cover, and using first impressions i would have shared your same opinion of him. He 'looks' lazy and on occasions,yes, he is guilty it would seem of being that, he plays with what appears to be an arrogant disredard for the importance of running. I think this is why some people have formed their opinions and stuck to them. HOWEVER, he IS a very clever player, and his positioning and space he creates because of it largely goes unoticed it would seem. He draws defenders to him, he moves them about, he takes up positions that changes the dynamics of our attacks from the midfield area. This is why and almost the major contributing factor as to why our wingers in my opinion have become more of an impact on our games, especially the upturn of fortunes that Ivan Sproule is enjoying. Nicky maynard also appears to have come into his own since playing/training with SJ. Of course maynard has largely hit form because of his own abilities, but he was struggling with form, and it appears to me SJ has helped him out of this. For Ivan to publicly praise him for what he has done individually for his game, and to suggest it has helped the team in a new formation, for me speaks volumes, it was clear the team were happy for him to have his loan extended. He encourages better football, he brings players into the game, he promotes a more varied and thought provoking attack for defenders to think about. In comparison to thatm i don't think LT has or does any of the above to a large or results based degree. LT recieves the ball, and defenders know what is going to happen, there will be a trick or two, maybe three and then maybe a curling shot if he creates enough space, or a back heel. Yes its skillful, it looks nice and may gain a spot on 'soccer am's showboating' or on an admirers 'youtube' clip, BUT unfortunately it rarely gets a highlight on the 'Championship' on a sunday morning as more often than not, in this league, for BCFC, it doesnt lead to a goal. Championship defenders are capable of dealing with skillfull individuals on a much larger scale, than they are with players who bring a whole attacking unit into the fray.

As has been mentioned before, i do not dislike LT, and i think as any football fan would, i enjoy his entertaining ability. He is clearly gifted in that sence, more so with the juggling and close skill etc etc than all of our strikers and maybe even players at the club, BUT my main concern as a city fan is that a player contributes to our team winning, by either scoring or creating goals, and i honestly don't believe LT has cut it at this level. He gets caught out at this level, and all the skill in the world does not change that. Maybe he would fit in better with a different approach, i don't know, but that is really all speculation, we have no solid evidence to suggest he would. Personally i think it would be madness on the managers part, boardering on desperation (which is not needed) and quite unproffesional for him to test that theory and change the whole dimension of the team, who has recently seen an upturn in form, just to test the water. For me that is something that shouldn't and i really hope wont happen, and i am confident that it wont.

Brooker, i agree, not in the picture anymore, too many injuries and so forth.

Styvar, again agree.

Dele, however i think is a far better option than LT especially given the wage issue. That aside however i think he brings more to the team, and his performance against wolves is testament to that. He truely DID change the game against wolves who were a top of the table side. Defenders are just unable to cope with his power and physical presence, which i think in this league is a far better quality and harder to deal with than the skill qualities of LT. I doubt defenders are too wary of LT coming on, yes they will pay his skill the respect it deserves, but on the whole the majority of them will deal with it. Dele however, regardless of knowing what he is all about, is just very difficult for defenders to play against. He was unstoppable against wolves, they simply couldnt handle him.

So all in all, for me LT is a player who, on the basis of his wage, has not justified his place in the team or indeed squad. He gets far too much to be a squad player, which in my opinion, is all he has justified being through his performances. On a lesser wage i would love to see him stay, as yes he is a option and can bring something to the game, of course he can, BUT on his wage he should bring a hell of alot more. I would rather free up the money let him go and stick with what we have, and i would like to see SJ stay for the next season or two. I think his performances warrent a deal, and his experience and knowledge of the game is clearly worth something to the squad too, especially considering we have the likes of Maynard and Akinde who are very much still learning the game.

[SJC]

Not to seem pedantic as I would hate to give a false impression of myself . . . . . But clearly it is a proportion of the crowd that cheer him rather than 'the crowd.' I imagine this happens because he scored our most celebrated goal last year and he is, and there can be no arguments here, very entertaining to watch. So were the people who actually 'slagged him off' last season wrong, or was it infact the 'crowd' that was wrong on these {frequent} occasions? Because no matter what some might think, there was not an awful lot of love or people readily defending the guy this time last year.

[big p]

Not to seem pedantic as I would hate to give a false impression of myself . . . . . But clearly it is a proportion of the crowd that cheer him rather than 'the crowd.' I imagine this happens because he scored our most celebrated goal last year and he is, and there can be no arguments here, very entertaining to watch. So where the people who actually were 'slagging him off' last season wrong, or was it infact the 'crowd' that was wrong on these {frequent} occasions?

Because no matter what some might think, there was not an awful lot of love or people readily defending the guy this time last year.

What!!!!!!!!!!What are going on about

[big p]

AM,

My grievence was not with your opinion, it was with the fact that you agreed with the labelling of those whose stated the facts about LT(regarding his performace in a league One and his record for us in the Champ), as being sheep. Your above post however offers some opinion, which i happen to disagree with.

I wholeheartedly disagree with your evaluation of Stern John. For the record, at first, he frustrated me immensely and on judging a book by its cover, and using first impressions i would have shared your same opinion of him. He 'looks' lazy and on occasions,yes, he is guilty it would seem of being that, he plays with what appears to be an arrogant disredard for the importance of running. I think this is why some people have formed their opinions and stuck to them. HOWEVER, he IS a very clever player, and his positioning and space he creates because of it largely goes unoticed it would seem. He draws defenders to him, he moves them about, he takes up positions that changes the dynamics of our attacks from the midfield area. This is why and almost the major contributing factor as to why our wingers in my opinion have become more of an impact on our games, especially the upturn of fortunes that Ivan Sproule is enjoying. Nicky maynard also appears to have come into his own since playing/training with SJ. Of course maynard has largely hit form because of his own abilities, but he was struggling with form, and it appears to me SJ has helped him out of this. For Ivan to publicly praise him for what he has done individually for his game, and to suggest it has helped the team in a new formation, for me speaks volumes, it was clear the team were happy for him to have his loan extended. He encourages better football, he brings players into the game, he promotes a more varied and thought provoking attack for defenders to think about. In comparison to thatm i don't think LT has or does any of the above to a large or results based degree. LT recieves the ball, and defenders know what is going to happen, there will be a trick or two, maybe three and then maybe a curling shot if he creates enough space, or a back heel. Yes its skillful, it looks nice and may gain a spot on 'soccer am's showboating' or on an admirers 'youtube' clip, BUT unfortunately it rarely gets a highlight on the 'Championship' on a sunday morning as more often than not, in this league, for BCFC, it doesnt lead to a goal. Championship defenders are capable of dealing with skillfull individuals on a much larger scale, than they are with players who bring a whole attacking unit into the fray.

As has been mentioned before, i do not dislike LT, and i think as any football fan would, i enjoy his entertaining ability. He is clearly gifted in that sence, more so with the juggling and close skill etc etc than all of our strikers and maybe even players at the club, BUT my main concern as a city fan is that a player contributes to our team winning, by either scoring or creating goals, and i honestly don't believe LT has cut it at this level. He gets caught out at this level, and all the skill in the world does not change that. Maybe he would fit in better with a different approach, i don't know, but that is really all speculation, we have no solid evidence to suggest he would. Personally i think it would be madness on the managers part, boardering on desperation (which is not needed) and quite unproffesional for him to test that theory and change the whole dimension of the team, who has recently seen an upturn in form, just to test the water. For me that is something that shouldn't and i really hope wont happen, and i am confident that it wont.

Brooker, i agree, not in the picture anymore, too many injuries and so forth.

Styvar, again agree.

Dele, however i think is a far better option than LT especially given the wage issue. That aside however i think he brings more to the team, and his performance against wolves is testament to that. He truely DID change the game against wolves who were a top of the table side. Defenders are just unable to cope with his power and physical presence, which i think in this league is a far better quality and harder to deal with than the skill qualities of LT. I doubt defenders are too wary of LT coming on, yes they will pay his skill the respect it deserves, but on the whole the majority of them will deal with it. Dele however, regardless of knowing what he is all about, is just very difficult for defenders to play against. He was unstoppable against wolves, they simply couldnt handle him.

So all in all, for me LT is a player who, on the basis of his wage, has not justified his place in the team or indeed squad. He gets far too much to be a squad player, which in my opinion, is all he has justified being through his performances. On a lesser wage i would love to see him stay, as yes he is a option and can bring something to the game, of course he can, BUT on his wage he should bring a hell of alot more. I would rather free up the money let him go and stick with what we have, and i would like to see SJ stay for the next season or two. I think his performances warrent a deal, and his experience and knowledge of the game is clearly worth something to the squad too, especially considering we have the likes of Maynard and Akinde who are very much still learning the game.

How do you how much money LT is on.is that the same rumour which had LJ on the second highest wage.so surley he must be next to go then!

[red man dan]

Not to seem pedantic as I would hate to give a false impression of myself . . . . . But clearly it is a proportion of the crowd that cheer him rather than 'the crowd.' I imagine this happens because he scored our most celebrated goal last year and he is, and there can be no arguments here, very entertaining to watch. So where the people who actually were 'slagging him off' last season wrong, or was it infact the 'crowd' that was wrong on these {frequent} occasions?

Because no matter what some might think, there was not an awful lot of love or people readily defending the guy this time last year.

Last year at certain times LT was used as an opportunity to be nagative, and to slate GJ, 'he's spent too much on him, what a waste of money, he eats too many pies, why did GJ buy him, he doesnt bring anything to the team' ETC ETC and now this year IRONICALLY he is again being used as a reason to be negative and to question GJ this time because he is NOT playing, 'why is he not given an opportunity, he's not performing because of the manager, why isnt he starting in the right position, he can 'change' games, he'd work well with ???' ETC ETC.

Its mindblowing to be honest, i simply don't understand it. quite how he has resurected himself i don't know. There will of course be those who say, it was not us who were slagging him off, and i accept that, but many were and i would like to know where in the 'crowd' who now it has been suggested collectively cheer and are lifted when he comes on, where have they gone?