Trundle And Beckford

[red man dan]

How do you how much money LT is on.is that the same rumour which had LJ on the second highest wage.so surley he must be next to go then!

I think it is quite safe to assume that a player who was brought in for 1m pounds is on a fairly high wage at the club. Where have i at any point suggested he is the highest earner? I don't think i have, but even so he most likely is or is very close to being. I would also expect LJ to be one of our higher earners, and would be happy for him to be, as he plays in nealy every game and has contributed massively to our promotion and promotion push over the seasons he has been here. You cannot say the same of LT.

[bh red]

AM,

My grievence was not with your opinion, it was with the fact that you agreed with the labelling of those whose stated the facts about LT(regarding his performace in a league One and his record for us in the Champ), as being sheep. Your above post however offers some opinion, which i happen to disagree with.

it's not the LT or any particular thing or person that makes me think of some people as sheep, just that on many occasions in the past, not just with Gary Johnson but also past managers, There will be a general view of something or someone, then all of a sudden the manager will do/say something and then everyone will change their views? almost sheep like,

an example of this (of which I don't like to bring up) was Nick Carle last season, late on last season he was one of our better players and many said that with an pre-season behind him, he'll be a heck of a player this season......Gary sells him (rightly or wrongly) then all of a sudden everyone thinks he was the worst player in our history.......that's what I mean regarding some people who I think are "sheepish"

I think the whole problem was Trundle has been, that early last season he was dreadful and out of his depth, but at the time after spending £1m (a hell of alot of money for a club like us) on a player, he expected the player to suit our style which was totally different to how he played, where I felt we should have adapted our game to his strengths....that never really happened.

Late on in the season he really settled in and started playing well and I feel this season when he's actually played, he's been twice the player he was at any point this season, his tricks are less often which isn't a issue, but his quality with the ball in terms of his passing, creativity, shooting and work rate have on many times been first class and very good for a player at this level.

unfortunately though it does seem a case that Gary's almost lost interest in getting the best out of him after this season despite how well some feel he has done when he's had the chance and has now started looking at others, which is concerning especially given his wages and transfer fee, Trundle was a SERIOUS investment for City and I just feel he's been misused here.

all that said, I expect Trundle to join leeds on a perm deal either by end of next week or end of season and I think the Jury will be out until next season when he is possibly a championship player with Leeds.....then people will see whether or not it was the player or the manager who got it wrong......right now, for me.....jury's out?

[chinapig]

What!!!!!!!!!!What are going on about

SJC seems clear enough to me. Last season Lee was getting plenty of stick both on here and at games. Indeed I found myself in the minority defending him. I remember one occasion when he had a go back at somebody in the crowd near me; rightly too, given that he always does his best. All of a sudden, when he is not playing, all that has been forgotten. So if the crowd (as you put it) is right now, was it right then?

[bh red]

Not to seem pedantic as I would hate to give a false impression of myself . . . . . But clearly it is a proportion of the crowd that cheer him rather than 'the crowd.' I imagine this happens because he scored our most celebrated goal last year and he is, and there can be no arguments here, very entertaining to watch. So were the people who actually 'slagged him off' last season wrong, or was it infact the 'crowd' that was wrong on these {frequent} occasions? Because no matter what some might think, there was not an awful lot of love or people readily defending the guy this time last year.

to be honest, he did look out of his depth last season but not suprising when played up front with Byfield, Murray and Sproule for long spells, for me though (and possibly others) late on in the season when he seemed with Dele (which is what many were crying out for in a targetman) to click.

This season I think he's been twice the player when actually played and really seems to have adjusted and got to grips with this level.

[red man dan]

all that said, I expect Trundle to join leeds on a perm deal either by end of next week or end of season and I think the Jury will be out until next season when he is possibly a championship player with Leeds.....then people will see whether or not it was the player or the manager who got it wrong......right now, for me.....jury's out?

As i have said, LT may well fit into a side who plays a different style. I just TOTALLY disagree with the concept of changing the way GJ wants the team to play, to suit one individual, who whilst having played fairly well on occasions, has not been consistently outstanding. Therefore he doesnt warrent having a team play around him, i don't think any player does even if they are performing miracles, as it is unhealthy for a team to be too dependant on one player and his attributes, its a team game and i don't however think LT commands that type of effect on a game anyway.

If LT goes to leeds they get promoted and he performs in Champ with them, i would say it is just as likely that its because he is playing in a different set up that has led to this, rather than GJ being wrong not to play him at our club. I'm not sure it is either the player or the manager who is getting it 'WRONG' in this scenario. Some players just do not fit in to some teams and style of play aswell as they would elsewhere, this for me on occasions, is neither the managers fault or indeed the players fault, and this could well be one of those occasions.

I'm not fussed by what the reasons are, or indeed interested in blaming anyone(player OR manager) for LT's lack of success at BCFC, but i am concerned that it 'hasnt happened' for him here, and therefore its in the best interests of the club and Lee if he moves on. In many ways i don't like seeing a player with his gift sitting in the reserves, that said, i don't want to see him starting for us, as it doesnt work.

[bully]

As i have said, LT may well fit into a side who plays a different style. I just TOTALLY disagree with the concept of changing the way GJ wants the team to play, to suit one individual

So why did he buy him in the first place? - we are told about GJ buying the 'right' type of person, but surely that extends to that person being able to play within the team structure.

LT never seemed comfy to me - apart from a few flashes of brilliance.

He has shown himself to be a good pro without moaning publicly about a situation that hasn't worked out for him and that goes a long way I think towards the way a lot of people feel about him.

I hope he goes and plays where he's appreciated - and eases our wage bill at the same time.

[Nibor]

As i have said, LT may well fit into a side who plays a different style. I just TOTALLY disagree with the concept of changing the way GJ wants the team to play, to suit one individual, who whilst having played fairly well on occasions, has not been consistently outstanding. Therefore he doesnt warrent having a team play around him, i don't think any player does even if they are performing miracles, as it is unhealthy for a team to be too dependant on one player and his attributes, its a team game and i don't however think LT commands that type of effect on a game anyway.

Nobody has ever suggested building a team around a 32 year old, that would be insanity.

However if you pay £1m and £10k a week for a player it is also insanity to then use him in a role for which he is completely unsuited and that is what we've done.

Every single time we've given Trundle the ball to feet facing goal he has been dangerous and played well. Every single time we've hoofed it to him chest height he has been poor. It ain't exactly rocket science.

[red man dan]

Nobody has ever suggested building a team around a 32 year old, that would be insanity.

However if you pay £1m and £10k a week for a player it is also insanity to then use him in a role for which he is completely unsuited and that is what we've done.

Every single time we've given Trundle the ball to feet facing goal he has been dangerous and played well. Every single time we've hoofed it to him chest height he has been poor. It ain't exactly rocket science.

No not in so many words they havent. BUT he HAS NOT fitted into the side and the way we play at the moment, so in suggesting that he starts in this team either makes no sence at all or indeed you actually are suggesting that we change the team and/or style of play so that we can best make use of him, that may not be quite building the team around him, but it isnt massively far off.

You have said yourself, he has been poor when recieivng the ball at chest height, i would suggest that is not really the attributes of an all round player. SJ and Adebola can both bring the ball down when its 'hoofed' to them and in turn be dangerous from that scenario, and at the same time are equally as comfortable when recieving the ball to feet. That in itself offers the team more flexability when going forward, and is why these two players, SJ in particular can bring Maynard and the wingers into the game on more occasions than LT has. With a team that doesnt always wish to play the ball into feet and within a team that can adapt to a different style of play when needed, why would we include a highly paid player in the squad who cant and doesnt play well in those conditions and who cant adapt when required to. LT has his attributes and abilities in certain area's, but his ability to adapt has proved to be lacking. The championship is faster and you get less time on the ball than in league one, the opportunity to play to a strikers feet is not always a viable option or indeed the correct one, a midfielder must surely be more comfortable knowing that when they look for their front man, they arent limited in the ball they can play to him.

I could end my post with a condescending comment regarding rocket science, but i wont.

[chinapig]

We have people saying Lee and Nicky should play up front together, which would make Lee the target man, but at the same time we have people saying he cannot play with his back to goal (true in my view as he gets knocked off the ball by defenders). The alternative is that Lee should play but with a target man but then Nicky Maynard would have to drop out. Hard to see how you square that circle.

[bully]

No not in so many words they havent. BUT he HAS NOT fitted into the side and the way we play at the moment, so in suggesting that he starts in this team either makes no sence at all or indeed you actually are suggesting that we change the team and/or style of play so that we can best make use of him, that may not be quite building the team around him, but it isnt massively far off.

You have said yourself, he has been poor when recieivng the ball at chest height, i would suggest that is not really the attributes of an all round player. SJ and Adebola can both bring the ball down when its 'hoofed' to them and in turn be dangerous from that scenario, and at the same time are equally as comfortable when recieving the ball to feet. That in itself offers the team more flexability when going forward, and is why these two players, SJ in particular can bring Maynard and the wingers into the game on more occasions than LT has. With a team that doesnt always wish to play the ball into feet and within a team that can adapt to a different style of play when needed, why would we include a highly paid player in the squad who cant and doesnt play well in those conditions and who cant adapt when required to. LT has his attributes and abilities in certain area's, but his ability to adapt has proved to be lacking. The championship is faster and you get less time on the ball than in league one, the opportunity to play to a strikers feet is not always a viable option or indeed the correct one, a midfielder must surely be more comfortable knowing that when they look for their front man, they arent limited in the ball they can play to him.

I could end my post with a condescending comment regarding rocket science, but i wont.

You're probably right on all fronts, so why did the best manager we have had in decades sign him if he didn't have the attributes needed to play for us at CCC level?

I think that is rocket science because I can't understand it.

[SJC]

Ive said before and ill say again, confounding those who think amongst people who widely support Johnson he can do no wrong, signing Trundle was a mistake. Of course it can be argued that Lee has failed to adapt, and to an extent id suggest there is a decent case for this, but when a marquee signing is on loan in the lower leagues a year and a half after joining a fair proportion of responsibility must fall at the managers and his scouting teams feet.

Retrospect clearly tells us it was a mistake, but well done him for essentially admitting as such and allowing Trundle to explore other options, rather than displaying the pig headedness many accuse him off and allowing Lee to sit on the bench consuming a valuable portion of our wage budget.

[Nibor]

No not in so many words they havent. BUT he HAS NOT fitted into the side and the way we play at the moment, so in suggesting that he starts in this team either makes no sence at all or indeed you actually are suggesting that we change the team and/or style of play so that we can best make use of him, that may not be quite building the team around him, but it isnt massively far off.

You have said yourself, he has been poor when recieivng the ball at chest height, i would suggest that is not really the attributes of an all round player. SJ and Adebola can both bring the ball down when its 'hoofed' to them and in turn be dangerous from that scenario, and at the same time are equally as comfortable when recieving the ball to feet. That in itself offers the team more flexability when going forward, and is why these two players, SJ in particular can bring Maynard and the wingers into the game on more occasions than LT has. With a team that doesnt always wish to play the ball into feet and within a team that can adapt to a different style of play when needed, why would we include a highly paid player in the squad who cant and doesnt play well in those conditions and who cant adapt when required to. LT has his attributes and abilities in certain area's, but his ability to adapt has proved to be lacking. The championship is faster and you get less time on the ball than in league one, the opportunity to play to a strikers feet is not always a viable option or indeed the correct one, a midfielder must surely be more comfortable knowing that when they look for their front man, they arent limited in the ball they can play to him.

I could end my post with a condescending comment regarding rocket science, but i wont.

It's pretty straight forward.

We signed Trundle and then used him as a target man. That's just plain stupid.

If we wanted a target man we shouldn't have signed him, if we wanted him to be effective we shouldn't have used him as a target man.

There's no excuse for signing him and using him wrong. Criticising the player for not being something he never has been nor has ever claimed to be is silly.

We don't have ANY all round players, they all have strengths and weaknesses. You compensate for not having a team full of Gerrards by playing to their strengths and trying to play players together whose strengths complement each other. Like, for example, Elliott plus LJ or Carey plus McCombe.

This does not include playing Trundle up front next to a winger. We've never extended the same opportunity to him to form a partnership with the right sort of player and most of the time we've not played to his strengths.

Yes, we should now get rid of Trundle because it's clear he's not going to get a chance so he's no more than a drain on the wage bill but we should do so recognising that it was the management team who screwed that one up not the player. It has cost us a fortune and will continue to do so as we pay up his remaining contract.

Moaning about condescending remarks that weren't even aimed at you personally seems a little OTT to me.

[red man dan]

We have people saying Lee and Nicky should play up front together, which would make Lee the target man, but at the same time we have people saying he cannot play with his back to goal (true in my view as he gets knocked off the ball by defenders). The alternative is that Lee should play but with a target man but then Nicky Maynard would have to drop out. Hard to see how you square that circle.

You cant, hence why LT doesnt feature in the team and is barely in the squad. NM is clearly the better option and alongside each other they do not contribute to each others strenghs, one of them has to make way, and that is always going to be and damn well should be Lee Trundle.

You're probably right on all fronts, so why did the best manager we have had in decades sign him if he didn't have the attributes needed to play for us at CCC level?

I think that is rocket science because I can't understand it.

Clearly the hope was that Lee Trundle would adapt to the pace and defending in the CCC, however he had not been proved at this level before and was always, in that context going to be a bit of a risk. However i think its very unfair to lament GJ on that basis as it was clearly a fair assumption that he would most likely succeed at a a higher level and many people welcomed his arrival. For us, he has not succeded, so i guess GJ cannot hide from that, and i don't make excuses for him in that area. It didnt work out, its time to cut our losses and move on, for the record GJ's other signings, marv for one, more than makes up for the financial defecit created from signing LT, as it appears we could have doubled what we spent of LT buy selling ME after GJ bought him for a pitance, thankfully we are in a position to turn down those offers.

When Lee Trundle was bought in, we had no idea how we were to be playing in this league, and what style we were going to have to adapt to. It has changed over time and will continue to do so, you cannot sign or not sign players based on eventualities that you can not predict. Teams and players change, styles and formations change, therefore certain players who may have fitted in or been expected to fit, might at a later time not do so.

The worlds top managers, at the worlds top clubs have bought players for large sums of money and they have proved to be fruitless, it happens.

I don't think it is rocket science at all, it is just part of football. It has happened here before and will again, bridges didnt get on here and went to have a stormer elsewhere, and on the same token looking back a couple of years, you would have thought Adebola's career was all but over given his awfull spell/season at Coventry before he moved to us, but in a different setting and different team he resurected his career under GJ at BCFC and played in a team who were one game away from the Premier League. As i say, it happens.

[red man dan]

It's pretty straight forward.

We signed Trundle and then used him as a target man. That's just plain stupid.

If we wanted a target man we shouldn't have signed him, if we wanted him to be effective we shouldn't have used him as a target man.

There's no excuse for signing him and using him wrong. Criticising the player for not being something he never has been nor has ever claimed to be is silly.

We don't have ANY all round players, they all have strengths and weaknesses. You compensate for not having a team full of Gerrards by playing to their strengths and trying to play players together whose strengths complement each other. Like, for example, Elliott plus LJ or Carey plus McCombe.

This does not include playing Trundle up front next to a winger. We've never extended the same opportunity to him to form a partnership with the right sort of player and most of the time we've not played to his strengths.

Yes, we should now get rid of Trundle because it's clear he's not going to get a chance so he's no more than a drain on the wage bill but we should do so recognising that it was the management team who screwed that one up not the player. It has cost us a fortune and will continue to do so as we pay up his remaining contract.

Moaning about condescending remarks that weren't even aimed at you personally seems a little OTT to me.

As i have said in my last post, above, it is fair to say that maybe LT hasnt been played in a team that suits his game, HOWEVER, i don't agree that this is all the 'managment teams' fault. Our style of play has evolved over time and certainly it has this season, in reaction to how we were playing and based on how teams were now playing against us having had a season to 'look' at us last year. In my opinion LT has not evolved with those changes and maybe he never was going to, as you say the striker we need to partner NM is not in the mould of LT, that is not his fault, but i don't see why on the same token it is GJ's fault either. It has transpired that we are now playing to a target man or a player who holds the ball and brings players into the game, that is why SJ and Adebola are further up the pecking order than LT.

As for moaning about remarks, no that is not what i was doing, and i was aware that it was not directed personally at me. I was merely pointing out that i was not going to engage in the same game, that being making use of phrases which are clearly used to belittle the views or assumed understandings of others.

[Nibor]

As i have said in my last post, above, it is fair to say that maybe LT hasnt been played in a team that suits his game, HOWEVER, i don't agree that this is all the 'managment teams' fault. Our style of play has evolved over time and certainly it has this season, in reaction to how we were playing and based on how teams were now playing against us having had a season to 'look' at us last year.

Our style of play is down to the management team, they sign and coach the players. Of course it is their fault if they sign an expensive player and then use him in a completely inappropriate role. You're suggesting Trundle should carry the can for something he doesn't have control over.

Our style of play should never, ever be a mere reaction to other teams, it should be something we choose that gets the best out of our squad of players. If we've evolved towards a direct style we should devolve backwards because results have dramatically declined as we've done so.

In my opinion LT has not evolved with those changes and maybe he never was going to, as you say the striker we need to partner NM is not in the mould of LT, that is not his fault, but i don't see why on the same token it is GJ's fault either. It has transpired that we are now playing to a target man or a player who holds the ball and brings players into the game, that is why SJ and Adebola are further up the pecking order than LT.

I haven't said anything about a partner for NM and actually Trundle would be a far better partner for Maynard than Adebola IMO because he can pass through the defence. Adebola's flick ons arrive in random locations, his control is poor and they didn't link up well in the run they had. John is better because he has some semblance of control and vision but he's contributing no more than I believe Trundle would in that respect and he's no goal threat really.

As for moaning about remarks, no that is not what i was doing, and i was aware that it was not directed personally at me. I was merely pointing out that i was not going to engage in the same game, that being making use of phrases which are clearly used to belittle the views or assumed understandings of others.

The comment was drawing attention to the mistake made by the management team being quite easily avoidable since it was obvious. It wasn't belittling anyone's views, I think you're a little over sensitive there.

[red man dan]

Our style of play is down to the management team, they sign and coach the players. Of course it is their fault if they sign an expensive player and then use him in a completely inappropriate role. You're suggesting Trundle should carry the can for something he doesn't have control over.

Our style of play should never, ever be a mere reaction to other teams, it should be something we choose that gets the best out of our squad of players. If we've evolved towards a direct style we should devolve backwards because results have dramatically declined as we've done so.

I haven't said anything about a partner for NM and actually Trundle would be a far better partner for Maynard than Adebola IMO because he can pass through the defence. Adebola's flick ons arrive in random locations, his control is poor and they didn't link up well in the run they had. John is better because he has some semblance of control and vision but he's contributing no more than I believe Trundle would in that respect and he's no goal threat really.

The comment was drawing attention to the mistake made by the management team being quite easily avoidable since it was obvious. It wasn't belittling anyone's views, I think you're a little over sensitive there.

I massively disagree with your statement regarding 'not reacting' to other teams and how they play, of course you have to react to different teams, they have different players and different styles, therefore you take each team as it comes and you analyse what their weakness's are and find your strenghs that will best exploit them, and on the other hand you find their strengths and subsequently adapt to them in order to best weaken them. No team has a 'style' good enough to play the same game EVERY time and win every game. All teams change their approach to each game, to individuals in the opposition and to the style of play that teams adopts.

Our style is down to the management team yes, but it really is not as simple as them picking a 'style' and playing to it every time. To do that we would largely have to have the ability to sign numerous players of high a calibre, a reality that very few managers and teams realise, ourselves included. Very few teams have the luxury of a squad capable of dicatating a game through their own style in exactly the way a manager envisages, especially a style that is constantly pleasing on the eye, you needs the worlds best players to do that, and we don't have them. We do not have the quality of players at our disposal to play neat passing football against every team in the championship, there are squads of players out there who would batter us if we tried to that, as their are many squads out there who have better players than us. Thankfully therefore, in my opinion, we have a manager and managment team who can get the best out of the players we have by adopting a different style and approach to different games, and if that requires some direct play then so be it, i would rather have results than pretty football untill the time comes when we have a squad capable of achieving both. At present i don't think we have that, and therefore we have to work within the confines of our squad and use the best method and style of play we can, one that as it so happens does not seem to fit LT's game. It is a luxury to be able to play consistently attractive football. For the record i think we play good football in patches and more agaist certain teams, less against others.

As for a partner fo NM, Adebola and he certainly seemed to show promise in their partnership against the current best team in our division, a goal each and an assist from Adebola to maynard. Adebola forced a different issue on the wolves defense in that match something i honestly don't believe for one second Lee Trundle could have, we will never know of course but its my opinion that the Wolves centre backs would have dealt with him all the 2nd half, and had we tried to play the football that suited LT, ie as you have metnioned playing the ball to his feet, then the wolves midfield who are clearly superior to ours, would have dicated that match and likely won with releative ease. Specualtion i agree, but i hardly think its an easy case to make, that LT would have done more than make a goal and score a goal against top of the table given his previous input in matches.

As for the rocket science comment, then really you were belittleling peoples views and understanding, it just so happens you've now made it clear that it was the management teams understanding of why they were doing things that you were questioning as you say they have made a mistake. There is no over sensativity here.

[Nibor]

I massively disagree with your statement regarding 'not reacting' to other teams and how they play,

You're confusing tactical and strategic. We can certainly have individual tactics to deal with specific problems thrown at us by specific opponents but you're suggesting that our whole style, our approach to playing football, is just a result of other teams and if that is what's happened (and I don't believe for a second it is) then that is completely wrong.

As for a partner fo NM, Adebola and he certainly seemed to show promise in their partnership against the current best team in our division, a goal each and an assist from Adebola to maynard. Adebola forced a different issue on the wolves defense in that match something i honestly don't believe for one second Lee Trundle could have, we will never know of course but its my opinion that the Wolves centre backs would have dealt with him all the 2nd half, and had we tried to play the football that suited LT, ie as you have metnioned playing the ball to his feet, then the wolves midfield who are clearly superior to ours, would have dicated that match and likely won with releative ease. Specualtion i agree, but i hardly think its an easy case to make, that LT would have done more than make a goal and score a goal against top of the table given his previous input in matches.

There were many games this season where the partnership looked rubbish, one where it looked good doesn't change that IMO. Adebola's problem is he only shows up one game in three.

I agree it's speculation either way but my point is it doesn't have to be. We're clearly heading for mid table so why don't we have a run of games with Noble, Trundle and Maynard in the side and test out whether we are actually capable of playing the ball on the deck. I suspect we are.

As for the rocket science comment, then really you were belittleling peoples views and understanding,

No, I wasn't. You can believe what you like.

[bully]

When Lee Trundle was bought in, we had no idea how we were to be playing in this league, and what style we were going to have to adapt to. It has changed over time and will continue to do so, you cannot sign or not sign players based on eventualities that you can not predict. Teams and players change, styles and formations change, therefore certain players who may have fitted in or been expected to fit, might at a later time not do so.

LT was out in the cold relatively quickly in the context of his contractual term, and if GJ had no idea how we were to be playing or what style we'd have to adapt to i'd be surprised to say the least, because that would make him a crap manager, which he patently isn't.

I think it was a bad signing because LT simply didn't fit in, one we couldn't afford, and I don't see the slate as being wiped clean because of Marvin Elliot proving a good signing.

All managers make mistakes and this is one of GJ's.

[red man dan]

You're confusing tactical and strategic. We can certainly have individual tactics to deal with specific problems thrown at us by specific opponents but you're suggesting that our whole style, our approach to playing football, is just a result of other teams and if that is what's happened (and I don't believe for a second it is) then that is completely wrong.

There were many games this season where the partnership looked rubbish, one where it looked good doesn't change that IMO. Adebola's problem is he only shows up one game in three.

I agree it's speculation either way but my point is it doesn't have to be. We're clearly heading for mid table so why don't we have a run of games with Noble, Trundle and Maynard in the side and test out whether we are actually capable of playing the ball on the deck. I suspect we are.

No, I wasn't. You can believe what you like.

Believe me, i am very aware of the differences between tactics and 'overall' strategy, so i can assure you i am not confusing the two. It just appears we disagree again, :noexpression:

In my opinion we have changed our strategy in certain games and this season on the whole, and in some games it has only been tactics that have shuffled. I believe it would require a different strategy to accomidate LT as his game does not fit the tactics we currently employ. I don't feel we have proved to have the players capable of adopting this strategy, which as you say would require more play on the deck, as we have been found wanting against better oposition when adopting this strategy. I personally don't feel that noble could provide the goods for 90 minutes week in week out if we were to try and play in that style. I also don't believe we have enough players in that mould with the right attributes to play on the deck as much as maybe we would like to see. As i have said, in the meantime i am far more happy to play a little more direct and not be run over by teams such as Reading.

You suspect we are capable of it, i don't, and whilst you feel we clearly have no chance of making the play offs i feel we have an outside chance, so therefore i would rather GJ not gamble on the idea of changing the way we have been playing and in which recently we have seen a marked improvement.

Yes the wolves game is only one game for NM and AA, however it begs the question of, if they can do it against top of the table, then why cant they do it week in week out? And as for Adebola turing up once in three games, i would suggest that is a far higher ratio than LT turned up last season, hence why we arent moving the world to accomidate for him this season.

If you tell me you weren't belittleling peoples views, then i accept that, its just that 'its not rocket science' is often used in a manner that is negative towards someones understanding of something, as in its nature it is suggesting that someone really should understand something as it really is not very complicated. As i say,if that was not what you were suggesting then i accept that.

[red man dan]

I think it was a bad signing because LT simply didn't fit in, one we couldn't afford, and I don't see the slate as being wiped clean because of Marvin Elliot proving a good signing.

All managers make mistakes and this is one of GJ's.

I agree, all managers do make mistakes and yes this could well be one of GJ's, but my point regarding Elliot is that whilst LT may be a mistake you have to take the rough with the smooth, the good and bad. Far from wiping the slate clean, it does however make for better reading when in essence GJ's signings have proved as follows, in simple terms.

LT: lost a million

ME: Gained nearly 2 million (in theory had we sold him)

I think most chairmen would be happy with that return on their money, if they looked at it in purely financial terms.

[bully]

I agree, all managers do make mistakes and yes this could well be one of GJ's, but my point regarding Elliot is that whilst LT may be a mistake you have to take the rough with the smooth, the good and bad. Far from wiping the slate clean, it does however make for better reading when in essence GJ's signings have proved as follows, in simple terms.

LT: lost a million

ME: Gained nearly 2 million (in theory had we sold him)

I think most chairmen would be happy with that return on their money, if they looked at it in purely financial terms.

LT's wages also go a long way towards wiping out that 'Marvin profit', but we aren't going to fall out over it if SL and GJ didn't !

[windmillhillred]

youve only got to hear the crowd when he comes on.Are the crowd wrong?If you ask most people at the gate they would love to see Trundle start up front with maynard and form a partnership,not left midfield,up front and given a good run.Ive never heard the crowd jear Trundle, never.But Ive heard the crowd jear other players.But the 10,000 crowd which cheer Trundle must be wrong according to some people on here.

Why would anyone jeer Trundle? He's a good, honest pro who's not quite good enough to be starting in a side which harbours serious ambitions in the championship. I, for one, would love to see him at the club, but his wages should reflect what he brings to the squad, which in terms of goals, hasn't been a great deal. However, we are where we are, and I think his wages would be better spent elsewhere.

People cheer Trundle because he's entertaining, he seems a decent bloke, and there's always the thought when he's playing that something might happen. But, the facts show that he hasn't shown more than a glimpse of magic enough to endure the adulation that he is receiving. There is no rational argument which can be made to counter that view.

[windmillhillred]

But as you say the normal sheep have instantay slated him

Very few are out-right slating him, just saying that in his year and a half here he has not proved that he is a quality championship footballer. Which is an undeniable fact.

[cinker]

Very few are out-right slating him, just saying that in his year and a half here he has not proved that he is a quality championship footballer. Which is an undeniable fact.

Agreed. But no striker has stood out in the Top Scorer rankings... So, whats the point

[Nibor]

Why would anyone jeer Trundle? He's a good, honest pro who's not quite good enough to be starting in a side which harbours serious ambitions in the championship. I, for one, would love to see him at the club, but his wages should reflect what he brings to the squad, which in terms of goals, hasn't been a great deal. However, we are where we are, and I think his wages would be better spent elsewhere.

People cheer Trundle because he's entertaining, he seems a decent bloke, and there's always the thought when he's playing that something might happen. But, the facts show that he hasn't shown more than a glimpse of magic enough to endure the adulation that he is receiving. There is no rational argument which can be made to counter that view.

What adulation are you talking about?

[windmillhillred]

Agreed. But no striker has stood out in the Top Scorer rankings... So, whats the point

Erm, well, correct me if I'm wrong, but most of those strikers have actually left the club: Byfield, Showumni, Jevons (and Brooker on his way) were all here at the start of last season, and have moved on. We've introduced Adebola, who is scoring and creating; Stern John - who I think adds more than many think; Maynard who everyone is pleased to see is now really finding his feet; and Styvar, who we will have to weait and see about.

[cinker]

Erm, well, correct me if I'm wrong, but most of those strikers have actually left the club: Byfield, Showumni, Jevons (and Brooker on his way) were all here at the start of last season, and have moved on. We've introduced Adebola, who is scoring and creating; Stern John - who I think adds more than many think; Maynard who everyone is pleased to see is now really finding his feet; and Styvar, who we will have to weait and see about.

Adebola is a work horse. Maynard is playing consistently whereas Trundle hasn't the rest aren't in it... With respect, I still don't see your point..

[windmillhillred]

Adebola is a work horse. Maynard is playing consistently whereas Trundle hasn't the rest aren't in it... With respect, I still don't see your point..

the point is you were saying that our strikers weren't top scorers, which is entirely right. However, those strikers who arguably didn't perform last season have gone, with the exception of Trundle.

[SJC]

Re Nibor - 'adulation',

Lets be honest here, Trundle is one of the more supported players in our squad, both on these boards and at match-day, and yet what has he truly achieved to deserve it?

I keep feeling the need to reiterate myself but i have nothing against him and enjoy his trickery as much as the next supporter. But what has Trundle truly achieved during his time here that warrants more vocal support than the likes oF Mcindoe and Johnson {for example}, id even suggest Adebola has contributed more having been here a good while less.

Based on his time here, on what grounds do people, not just defend him, but promote him so staunchly?

[Nibor]

Re Nibor - 'adulation',

Lets be honest here, Trundle is one of the more supported players in our squad, both on these boards and at match-day, and yet what has he truly achieved to deserve it?

I keep feeling the need to reiterate myself but i have nothing against him and enjoy his trickery as much as the next supporter. But what has Trundle truly achieved during his time here that warrants more vocal support than the likes oF Mcindoe and Johnson {for example}, id even suggest Adebola has contributed more having been here a good while less.

Based on his time here, on what grounds do people, not just defend him, but promote him so staunchly?

Entertaining players always get more enthusiastic support than hardworking ones because they're more fun to watch, that's obvious isn't it? Jacki, Di Canio, Gazza. I don't see any adulation on here really. Myself I defend him because my view is that we've basically paid out a lot of money for a player with the skill to run at defenders and create and then pretty much prevented him from using it by not playing him with a partner worth the name and launching direct balls at him most of the time. I thought it was a silly signing to make at the time but what was even sillier was what we did after that. I find it hard to believe how GJ who is in many ways a very accomplished manager seems to miss the obvious with strikers.