Admin Maesknoll Red Posted February 3, 2009 Admin Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 K Friend, a quick glance through the records show we haven't seen much of him, at home in Nov 04 when we beat MK Dons 4-1 and again in Nov, but 07 this time, in a 1-1 draw at Molineux, which saw four of our players booked. What does stand out is the fact that every season he seems to have refereed games with plenty of goals in, 04/05 he saw West Ham beat Plymouth 5-0 and Hartlepool lose 4-6 to Wrexham, 06/07 saw him officiating Oldham 5 - 0 Forest, last season C Palace 5 - 0 Burnley and so far this season, Colchester 5 - 0 Carlisle and last weeks Cheltenham 3 - 5 MK Dons. Lets hope for a City goal fest tonight, its a long time since we comprehensively spanked someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchay Red Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Another myopic gem! Seemed to only see "illegal" challenges from us for the first 25 mins! And where did he get 5 added mins from? :noexpression: Nevermind we won so he didn't cost us the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWurzel Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 An absolute joke of a referee is all I can say. Gave absolutely nothing our way for the whole first half, even gave an offside against us despite the linesman keeping his flag down! And where he got 5 minutes from Christ only knows. 3 would have been generous. A blatant attempt to give time to change the outcome. The standard of refereeing in this league really does confuse and frustrate me in equal measures. Tonight's referee was quite obviously biased, for whatever reason, but what will be done about it. Nothing, as usual. Just lucky that it didn't cost us, another day it so easily could have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityboy Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I didn't think he was that bad tonight, although I did 'like' the way he put the drop ball into play whilst Williams had his back turned... Also, and this time it's squarely on the Linesman, what on earth was Akinde flagged for whilst holding the ball up at the corner flag? Holding onto the ball too long and not being fair in letting Charlton attack more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 As already said, flip knows where he got 5 mins added on time from?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Didn't think he did too badly tonight at all, to be honest. We got some very lucky decisions at times... Thought Carey would be booked for bringing down their player early on, Johnson got away with a pretty poor challenge just outside their box near the end, and their GK was booked for being one half of a challenge with McIndoe that was equally bad between the two of them. He wasn't influenced much by the crowd, which is something you rarely see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iWurzel Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 5 minutes added time despite no major stoppage in the whole half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 5 minutes added time despite no major stoppage in the whole half? Maybe he was adding on the time that he should have been used at the end of the first half where there was just 1 min. He must have spent at least 3mins lecturing various players. He was whistle happy in the first half but much better in the second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRitchie'sBoots Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 5 minutes added time despite no major stoppage in the whole half? Particularly ironic when you think of all the time wasting teams have done to us this season, ages to take g/kicks, f/kicks, throws, slow substitutions etc and we usually get 2 minutes where 5 would have been more like it. Standard of referees is pretty low all round and too many big I-am's take the job. Gutless though, what about the free-kick he gave Charlton right on the edge of the box in the first half! Challenge was in the box so it was either a dive (which I thought it was) or a penalty. Non-decision that aggravates everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Particularly ironic when you think of all the time wasting teams have done to us this season, ages to take g/kicks, f/kicks, throws, slow substitutions etc and we usually get 2 minutes where 5 would have been more like it. Standard of referees is pretty low all round and too many big I-am's take the job. Gutless though, what about the free-kick he gave Charlton right on the edge of the box in the first half! Challenge was in the box so it was either a dive (which I thought it was) or a penalty. Non-decision that aggravates everyone. I always think time-wasting is the trickiest one for a referee to call. For example, on Saturday Barnsley were time-wasting from the first minute until we took the lead. Does the ref then give the time-wasting team those minutes back if they are behind at the end of the game or does he strike them off, as it's their own fault they're running out of time whilst chasing the game? I guess, by the letter of the law, he should add them on regardless of the scoreline, but personally I'd be tempted to say "tough". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomRitchie'sBoots Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I always think time-wasting is the trickiest one for a referee to call. For example, on Saturday Barnsley were time-wasting from the first minute until we took the lead. Does the ref then give the time-wasting team those minutes back if they are behind at the end of the game or does he strike them off, as it's their own fault they're running out of time whilst chasing the game? I guess, by the letter of the law, he should add them on regardless of the scoreline, but personally I'd be tempted to say "tough". You're bang on about Barnsley and they were blatently taking the mickey, Campbell-Ryce probably the worst walking to take kicks and even actually doing stretching exercises before taking a free-kick (all this on top of constantly arguing with the ref). Ref was weak and they knew that. He should do 2 things; warn and then book any persistent offenders AND add the time on and make it clear he is doing it. You can't base it on what the score is at the end although I did laugh when I saw Campbell-Ryce and others rushing around to get play restarted when they were losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I always think time-wasting is the trickiest one for a referee to call. For example, on Saturday Barnsley were time-wasting from the first minute until we took the lead. Does the ref then give the time-wasting team those minutes back if they are behind at the end of the game or does he strike them off, as it's their own fault they're running out of time whilst chasing the game? I guess, by the letter of the law, he should add them on regardless of the scoreline, but personally I'd be tempted to say "tough". Technically, time is not "added on" by the referee and the issue is confused by the media and commentators insisting it is "added on time". More accurately, it is "time remaining" according to the referee's watch. When events, such as time-wasting, substitutions, injuries and goals occur, he simply stops his watch for the period of the event then resumes it. As such, he continues the game until 45 minutes is up on his watch. When and why the referee stops his watch is entirely at his discretion. If he feels that a team are blatantly time wasting, he has the option to stop his watch and, if necessary, caution the offenders. However, he can't then 'ignore' the time wasted if the circumstances of the game change and the time-wasting team is then chasing the game, so they will get the benefit of the time they wasted earlier. He can only play by the time showing on his watch. Having said that, when he whistles for the end of the half is also entirely at his discretion and nobody is going to question whether he has played exactly 45 minutes when he blows - another reason why you see many referees ensuring the ball is in a neutral area before blowing the whistle. I believe there were guidelines issued to referees that the watch should be stopped for 30 secs for each substitution and goal, but this is only a guideline. Sometimes substitutions and goals may take longer or shorter periods to get the game restarted, so you can't assume that figure is set in stone. When I was refereeing, I used to stop my watch after a goal and only restart when we kicked off again. Similarly with substitutions, as soon as there was an indication from the touchline, I would stop my watch to allow the substitution, then restart it when the game restarted. Perhaps, people should also be aware that the referee can only penalise time-wasting when the ball is not in free play, which includes when the keeper has it in his hands. At any other time, a player is free to waste whatever time he wishes without penalty - hence taking the ball to the corner flag. Apologies for the length of this post! Lesson over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Technically, time is not "added on" by the referee and the issue is confused by the media and commentators insisting it is "added on time". More accurately, it is "time remaining" according to the referee's watch. When events, such as time-wasting, substitutions, injuries and goals occur, he simply stops his watch for the period of the event then resumes it. As such, he continues the game until 45 minutes is up on his watch. When and why the referee stops his watch is entirely at his discretion. If he feels that a team are blatantly time wasting, he has the option to stop his watch and, if necessary, caution the offenders. However, he can't then 'ignore' the time wasted if the circumstances of the game change and the time-wasting team is then chasing the game, so they will get the benefit of the time they wasted earlier. He can only play by the time showing on his watch. Having said that, when he whistles for the end of the half is also entirely at his discretion and nobody is going to question whether he has played exactly 45 minutes when he blows - another reason why you see many referees ensuring the ball is in a neutral area before blowing the whistle. I believe there were guidelines issued to referees that the watch should be stopped for 30 secs for each substitution and goal, but this is only a guideline. Sometimes substitutions and goals may take longer or shorter periods to get the game restarted, so you can't assume that figure is set in stone. When I was refereeing, I used to stop my watch after a goal and only restart when we kicked off again. Similarly with substitutions, as soon as there was an indication from the touchline, I would stop my watch to allow the substitution, then restart it when the game restarted. Perhaps, people should also be aware that the referee can only penalise time-wasting when the ball is not in free play, which includes when the keeper has it in his hands. At any other time, a player is free to waste whatever time he wishes without penalty - hence taking the ball to the corner flag. Apologies for the length of this post! Lesson over... I agree with your analysis. You're right about 30 seconds being added for a goal and substitution. In the case of last night's game, that's three and a half minutes right there, without any other stoppages being added, so perhaps five minutes isn't so far off after all. I sometimes wonder if 30 minutes of the ball being in play per half would be better, but it would probably complicate the issue and give the ref another additional thing to think about, which he doesn't really need. As with you, when I referee, I tend to stop my watch for a goal and restart it on the whistle, so I've never really checked if 30 seconds is about right. I don't really bother with substitutions, as I only referee junior football where they allow rolling subs, so it tends not to be too time intrusive anyway, as most do it while the ball is being fetched and kids sprint on and off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Didn't think he did too badly tonight at all, to be honest. We got some very lucky decisions at times... Thought Carey would be booked for bringing down their player early on, Johnson got away with a pretty poor challenge just outside their box near the end, and their GK was booked for being one half of a challenge with McIndoe that was equally bad between the two of them. He wasn't influenced much by the crowd, which is something you rarely see. I agree with this. The problem with complaints about referees is that their decisions are viewed through a red veil and the complainants are obviously going to feel aggrieved at marginal decisions given against their team. Personally, I thought he had a reasonable game, and though he wasted a lot of time talking to players, a lot of the complaints about his performance were misinformed. I thought he got most of his decisions right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff65 Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Just thought he was a weak referee and Charlton took advantage of this early on whereas Carey, Dele etc... didnt realise what they could get away with until a lot later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolface Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 I didn't think he was that bad tonight, although I did 'like' the way he put the drop ball into play whilst Williams had his back turned... Also, and this time it's squarely on the Linesman, what on earth was Akinde flagged for whilst holding the ball up at the corner flag? Holding onto the ball too long and not being fair in letting Charlton attack more? The linesman said that Akinde was pulling shirts, how the **** he could with his back to two charlton Players and the ball at his feet, I will never know. and yea 5mins where on earth did he magic that up from, his 1min added on 1st half seemed to only last 10secs. I did like Brad at the end go over and gesture looking at his make belive watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpers4Goalposts Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 It's not up to the ref though is it? Is it not the 4th official that dictates this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted February 4, 2009 Author Admin Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 It's not up to the ref though is it? Is it not the 4th official that dictates this?? No, it's the ref, who tells the fourth official how long to display on his board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 It's not up to the ref though is it? Is it not the 4th official that dictates this?? I don't think it is the 4 official who adds on extra time the ref tells him how long he will add on, I thought he was not to bad he let us off a penaty when Williams fouled their player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpin Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 The linesman said that Akinde was pulling shirts, how the **** he could with his back to two charlton Players and the ball at his feet, I will never know. and yea 5mins where on earth did he magic that up from, his 1min added on 1st half seemed to only last 10secs. I did like Brad at the end go over and gesture looking at his make belive watch Quite often in a pre match briefing the referee will ask the assistant to "find" a foul against the attacking team if player from that team takes the ball into the corner of the field in order to try and waste time. See Benayoun's example in the Liverpool game, the assistant had already given a free-kick to Chelsea before Boswingwa decided to pole-axe him. I wasn't at the game last night but would imagine that the decision would be based along this train of thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Quite often in a pre match briefing the referee will ask the assistant to "find" a foul against the attacking team if player from that team takes the ball into the corner of the field in order to try and waste time. See Benayoun's example in the Liverpool game, the assistant had already given a free-kick to Chelsea before Boswingwa decided to pole-axe him. I wasn't at the game last night but would imagine that the decision would be based along this train of thought. Well I don't know what they do at the top level of the game, but in my experience as a referee (admittedly not at the heights of the professional game) that would be an absolute non-no and would bring the game into disrepute. A player is within the laws of the game to take the ball anywhere he wishes within the field of play and hold it there for as long as he wishes. There is no offence and thus neither the referee nor the linesman can 'make things up'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpin Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 Well I don't know what they do at the top level of the game, but in my experience as a referee (admittedly not at the heights of the professional game) that would be an absolute non-no and would bring the game into disrepute. A player is within the laws of the game to take the ball anywhere he wishes within the field of play and hold it there for as long as he wishes. There is no offence and thus neither the referee nor the linesman can 'make things up'! During FA run refereeing seminars this issue has been raised and in order to be "pro-active" in avoiding potential serious flashpoints (see Bosingwa...) then the assistant can sometimes be requested by the referee to give a free-kick if this situation occurs. This is by no means a blanket recommendation but something that a referee can instruct on if is his wish. In most cases the assistant will probably not "make things up" as usually there is some sort of infrigment. Admittedly, it would not be pulled up anywhere else on the field of play but this is what I mean by "find" and not "make up". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 During FA run refereeing seminars this issue has been raised and in order to be "pro-active" in avoiding potential serious flashpoints (see Bosingwa...) then the assistant can sometimes be requested by the referee to give a free-kick if this situation occurs. This is by no means a blanket recommendation but something that a referee can instruct on if is his wish. In most cases the assistant will probably not "make things up" as usually there is some sort of infrigment. Admittedly, it would not be pulled up anywhere else on the field of play but this is what I mean by "find" and not "make up". I take your point. However, it would seem to me that the only thing an assistant could give would be against the defender since all the attacker is doing is shielding the ball. It would require an infringement on the part of the defender. This would result in a lot of free kicks in favour of the time-wasting team, which wouldn't go down well. I can't see what an assistat could 'give' or 'find' against the attacker, unless it's elbows. The only way the defence can legally get out of a 'ball in the corner' situation without giving away a free kick would be to come in from the side and play the ball on to the legs of the attacker and out of play. Perhaps, in this situation, the assistant can 'find' that the ball went out off the attacker - whether it did or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMBCFC Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 to all who think 5 mins was a joke... 45 seconds per sub.. 5/6 subs... may have even been 6/6.. 45 secs per goal there were 2 in the 2nd half.. 5 mins was fine.. we just dint wanna lose the game! thankfully we didnt, great 2nd half performance last night lads.. but the ref was s**t.. i think the added time was pretty much the only thing he and his 'team' got right.. should be dropped to league 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasel92 Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 to all who think 5 mins was a joke... 45 seconds per sub.. 5/6 subs... may have even been 6/6.. 45 secs per goal there were 2 in the 2nd half.. Since when? The ref just stops his watch when the player goes off, and starts it again when the sub comes on. I thought the ref was fine really, although the 5 minutes was a bit much.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 No, it's the ref, who tells the fourth official how long to display on his board. But the referee must have two watches then, because if he stops his watch every time there is a stopage, and restarts it again after, how does he know when the 45 minutes should be up, and then indicate how long is left to the fourth official? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man In Black Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 A lot do have two watches. I certainly always did. It's good practice in case your watch breaks or you forget to restart it after stopping it (easier to do than it sounds!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted February 4, 2009 Report Share Posted February 4, 2009 to all who think 5 mins was a joke... 45 seconds per sub.. 5/6 subs... may have even been 6/6.. 45 secs per goal there were 2 in the 2nd half.. 5 mins was fine.. we just dint wanna lose the game! thankfully we didnt, great 2nd half performance last night lads.. but the ref was s**t.. i think the added time was pretty much the only thing he and his 'team' got right.. should be dropped to league 2. What? So with your calculations 6 subs plus say 4 goals in any 45 minute period would add on 7and a half minutes? Add to that stoppages for injuries, time wasting, bookings or sending off's and around 15 extra/additional minutes should be played???!!! No, I can't see where the 5 came from last night, even allowing for goals and subs. Only when there has been lengthy treatment for injuries do we usually get 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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