Admin Ian M Posted February 28, 2009 Admin Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I hear the concerns about mixing EastEnd STHs with Atyeo STHs at the new stadium but if managed correctly this move could actually enhance the number of singers congregated together on a matchday. Currently there is around 1200 STHs in the EE. Watching the vids on youtube of the EE atmosphere, despite the excellent atmosphere they create, it's clear not all of them sing and some are undoubtedly in there for the price. I would hazard a guess (based on STs sold before it got really cheap in there) that the split is around 50/50 but to be on the safe side we'll say there's around 800 who want to spend the match singing their heart out for the lads. In the Atyeo there are various pockets of singers but due to the nature of the reserved seating in this stand they are unable to congregate together. Due to supporters "owning" their particular seat for many years, the club was unsuccessful in attempting to introduce unreserved seating in this stand. Understandably, current East Enders are cynical about sharing a stand with supporters who are used to having their seat week in week out. I can assure you there are supporters in the Atyeo who would love to spend each match doing what the East End does if there happened to be a shed load of like-minded supporters around them but don't wish to give up their superior view or facilities to go and stand in the East End. At the new stadium we MUST, from the off, make at least the two blocks (circa 2000 seats) behind the goal unreserved seating. It must also be made VERY clear in all literature that those purchasing a ticket in this area will be in an extremely boisterous area of the ground and made aware that if they liked to remain seated that another block might be more to their liking. If done from the start then there will be no future "evictions". Those who currently support from the East End for the atmosphere can get season tickets for the unreserved area leaving around 1200 available places for fans from the Atyeo who wish to join them in an UNRESERVED seating area. Those who cherish having a specific seat in a stand behind the goal will still be able to but in one of the neighbouring blocks. This will keep them out of the way from interfering with the atmosphere generating central blocks. It is unrealistic to make the whole end unreserved as 1) it will create too much additional pressure on matchday staff during sellouts in trying to find the odd empty seats for late arrivals & 2) robbed of having a specific seat these fans who like to watch a match seated may infiltrate the central blocks. At this stage I don't think we'll be able to affect the designs of the stadium anymore so I honestly believe our efforts (and those of the Supporters Trust, Forza EE etc etc) would be better served making sure the "right" fans end up congregated together in one place. I don't think there is an away ground in the country where if we took 2,000+ fans all up for having a sing, we wouldn't be able to create a very large noise. Just look at Reading last Saturday. 4000+ went but not all sang. We were divided into pockets through reserved seating yet still created a cracking atmosphere. As good as it was, just imagine if we'd been asked on entry to the ground "singing or non-singing" so that we could get all the singers together, singing off the same songsheet and how much louder that would have been. Our ground won't be any different. As long as the above plan is put into action I'm actually looking forward to the move as I am an Atyeo STH who is excited by the prospect of joining up with those from the EE in an expanded singing section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcbs20 Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 i understand i sit half way up the e block in the ateyo and I'm surrounded by toffs who moan when i stand up they don't sing or in anyway encourage the team but a misplaced pace they are up in arms does my head in and its hard to get an atmosphere going there's only about 20 or so in the middle bit who try and get anything going so to have like minded people in the same area with unreserved seats from the off makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 so we have to unite the fans over this?? will this new stand have a bar?? as i'm going to have a stiff drink before i go in to the lions den tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percy Parrot Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I think that to keep the atmosphere it is essential that the club has at least 2,000 seats that are unreserved. I would suggest bang behind the goal as well - that way noise spreads both directions and is more likely to get the whole stadium going. I think 2,000 is the minimum number personally. As Madger says we clearly have 2,000 or so at the moment - probably more and without the restrictions on the view I imagine many many more would want to get involved with the unreserved area. Also allow for it to be expanded. I really really think this would be a huge this for all fans to enjoy the game and a massive benefit to the club and atmosphere. A good 2,000+ unreserved will work wonders. Slightly aside from that - the roof as low as possible would be good. I haven't looked too closely as the designes but the 30,000 design looks like the room is a long way above even the back row. Not sure of possibilities of lowering it a bit one end without impacting sight lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I agree with this, a big chunk of unreserved seating in the home end would help to keep the atmosphere which has risen lately and as posters on this thread say, to get more from The Atyeo and I think The Dolman has singing fans? behind the goal would help it further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DanC Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 What about children that would be in the neighbouring blocks? I used to have a Atyeo ST and one of the reasons I gave it up was because I was fed up with being told to wash my mouth out because of kids nearby. Some parents would rather not have there children hear things like that and I understand that but the EE is really not the best of places to take a kid if you are against that sort of thing so if it is mixed with reserved and unreserved it could well create friction. Put the away fans on a corner or up in the heavens above the boxes and then make one end completely unreserved and have the other end for the Atyeo type of fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man In Black Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 What about children that would be in the neighbouring blocks? I used to have a Atyeo ST and one of the reasons I gave it up was because I was fed up with being told to wash my mouth out because of kids nearby..... and then make one end completely unreserved and have the other end for the Atyeo type of fans. Do you think they won't hear your bad language in another stand? :noexpression: Sound does travel you know. Christ, all you seem to do at the moment is be negative about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tales From The Front Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Excellant idea and what I have been putting accross on the main stdium thread. I think its time that some of the Eastenders with their concerns got hold of this and took it forward. They worked hard to get back in the Eastend and have been great. Get yourself organised again and make the new 5000 stand your own (or cerianly a large section of it). With the new ground being designed the way it is, it can easily cater for all sort of fans from the prawn sandwich mob to your City Ultra types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted February 28, 2009 Author Admin Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 What about children that would be in the neighbouring blocks? I used to have a Atyeo ST and one of the reasons I gave it up was because I was fed up with being told to wash my mouth out because of kids nearby. Some parents would rather not have there children hear things like that and I understand that but the EE is really not the best of places to take a kid if you are against that sort of thing so if it is mixed with reserved and unreserved it could well create friction. Put the away fans on a corner or up in the heavens above the boxes and then make one end completely unreserved and have the other end for the Atyeo type of fans. I know you really don't like the new stadium design but however it looked the club were always going to let children in. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 What about children that would be in the neighbouring blocks? I used to have a Atyeo ST and one of the reasons I gave it up was because I was fed up with being told to wash my mouth out because of kids nearby. Some parents would rather not have there children hear things like that and I understand that but the EE is really not the best of places to take a kid if you are against that sort of thing so if it is mixed with reserved and unreserved it could well create friction. Put the away fans on a corner or up in the heavens above the boxes and then make one end completely unreserved and have the other end for the Atyeo type of fans. What are "Atyeo type of fans"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 North street on ziderheads makes a good point! The poster just totally misses the fundamental point. How do you get fans to buy into the concept of a unreserved seat in a poor stand stripped of tradition? How far would have the Eastend got if our selling point was you get an "unreserved" seat but it will be shit? In 200- 2007 I sat in the Williams and if I ever felt it could work I would have saved myself a lot of antagonism with the bloody petition. The reasons the Williams was not an option even thpough there was space was simple. It wasn't very good and even when it had a terrace in the more tolerant eighties filled with hundreds of lads it still wasn't as good as the Eastend is now. That part of the Williams by the Eastend simply did not affect the rest of the grounds like the Eastend does now even when we are stuck in a corner. Interestingly in 2007 in a two and half hour meeting with BCFC re the Eastend unreserved seating was not mentioned once. It was a peripheral point as we argued a case for a affordble, accessible area for like minded fans to gather in the best enviroment. What BCFC are offering is simply aiming at mediocrity and will quickly result in the enthusiasm to raise the bar in support of the team ebbing away. Thers nothing to aspire to in the characterless mess being offerred it just presents a bigger and blander future not a bigger and bolder one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MaloneFM Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 You'll sit where you're bloody told to and if you are not in a singing section you'll shut up young man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I know you really don't like the new stadium design but however it looked the club were always going to let children in. Sorry. And from next season onwards with all the kids for free offers there will be even more children. But like you say if it's made perfectly clear that the area in the new stand is for lively fans then those who are offended by strong language can chose to sit elsewhere. We will have a clean slate with a new stadium and the best solution for all people should be considered, ie the singers across the board to those who are less well abled etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 North street on ziderheads makes a good point! Fair enough. But why would two unreserved blocks directly behind the goal that are clearly designated as singing sections where the stewarding is more relaxed not be "an affordable, accessible area for like minded fans to gather in the best enviroment."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I tend to agree with the thrust of Madger's argument but there are two other things to consider. Firstly, I don't believe the club can make any reference to a part of the stadium where "fans may not remain seated". I thought they had an obligation to ensure that fans are seated? (Which begs the question of how do the Eastenders get past this now. I thought one of the club's original objections to the EE was that people may persistently stand?!?) Secondly, we all have to recognise that stadiums "grow" organically. That is, you cannot plan how parts of a stadium will act. This is the nature (and beauty) of crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I tend to agree with the thrust of Madger's argument but there are two other things to consider. Firstly, I don't believe the club can make any reference to a part of the stadium where "fans may not remain seated". I thought they had an obligation to ensure that fans are seated? (Which begs the question of how do the Eastenders get past this now. I thought one of the club's original objections to the EE was that people may persistently stand?!?) Secondly, we all have to recognise that stadiums "grow" organically. That is, you cannot plan how parts of a stadium will act. This is the nature (and beauty) of crowds. If you watch Match Of The Day, almost all the home ends stand throughout the game. Despite threats to close stands for persistent standing, the truth is, it's just hot air and nothing is ever done about it. I don't think the club would ever be able t ocome out and say "it's fine to stand", but they would just overlook it in those blocks, as they do in the Eastend. It's just a common sense approach, really. On your second point, I agree. But every effort must be made to ensure that the blocks behind the goal contain our vociferous support, because if that isn't done from the off, the chance will be gone forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristolian76 Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 I would have thought if the club did make an area unreserved, it wouldnt be directly behind the goal as they'd class that as a prime location and want to sell the season tickets at a higher premium just like on the half way line etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Fair enough. But why would two unreserved blocks directly behind the goal that are clearly designated as singing sections where the stewarding is more relaxed not be "an affordable, accessible area for like minded fans to gather in the best enviroment."? I think north street would have to answer that Thing is i agree with like minded people getting together in an unreserved singing section and reading through the post a lot of it has been picked out of my past ideas for ashton gate when wanting the EE open and the problem at the gate and it is not the main issue with some fans, what is the issue is the look of the new stand now the eastend looks like an old cow shed but is fantastic for atmosphere now we would like a stand the looks the dogs wotsits as well as being the good on acoustics and so to speak we wanted to go from a mini to a mercades, a land mark look of a stand that has the wow factor, concerns are it looks like a bus shelter and it has the 'is that it factor' we are just worried about the look of the fans rather what we will be doing in the stand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I think north street would have to answer that Thing is i agree with like minded people getting together in an unreserved singing section and reading through the post a lot of it has been picked out of my past ideas for ashton gate when wanting the EE open and the problem at the gate and it is not the main issue with some fans, what is the issue is the look of the new stand now the eastend looks like an old cow shed but is fantastic for atmosphere now we would like a stand the looks the dogs wotsits as well as being the good on acoustics and so to speak we wanted to go from a mini to a mercades, a land mark look of a stand that has the wow factor, concerns are it looks like a bus shelter and it has the 'is that it factor' we are just worried about the look of the fans rather what we will be doing in the stand. I agree to an extent, in that I would like to see the rake of seats taken back continuously at the home end, and do away with the concourse (Well, continue it, but beneath the seats with standard entrance ways to the seated area, rather than have it open, as it is in the design. I'm not sure what this would do to the capacity, but what I mean is something like this: It would only be a matter of a few rows, but it would get rid of the look of a continuous 'bowl' of seats appearance at that end (despite it still being there), would increase the capacity slightly and give it a clearer division as an 'end'. Thing is, I don't know the cost implications, the feasibility of adding more seats to it if necessary to expand capacity etc., but I do feel the concourse is unnecessary at that end and the look would be better if it was done away with as a viewing gallery at that point. On that point... Can someone who has been to the presentation tell me how the bars work in an open concourse. As it looks to me as though all are within sight of the playing surface which, as I understand it, means alcohol couldn't be served. Obviously, that can't be the case, so I was wondering how they've got round it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dollymarie Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 On that point... Can someone who has been to the presentation tell me how the bars work in an open concourse. As it looks to me as though all are within sight of the playing surface which, as I understand it, means alcohol couldn't be served. Obviously, that can't be the case, so I was wondering how they've got round it. Steve said on Wednesday that because the bars were at the back of the structure (sorry cant think of the right word to use) and not in actual sight of the pitch that they had been able to get round the licensing laws that way. I guess they will make people stand near the bar as a pose to wandering over to where the seats are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DanC Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I agree to an extent, in that I would like to see the rake of seats taken back continuously at the home end, and do away with the concourse (Well, continue it, but beneath the seats with standard entrance ways to the seated area, rather than have it open, as it is in the design. I'm not sure what this would do to the capacity, but what I mean is something like this: It would only be a matter of a few rows, but it would get rid of the look of a continuous 'bowl' of seats appearance at that end (despite it still being there), would increase the capacity slightly and give it a clearer division as an 'end'. Thing is, I don't know the cost implications, the feasibility of adding more seats to it if necessary to expand capacity etc., but I do feel the concourse is unnecessary at that end and the look would be better if it was done away with as a viewing gallery at that point. On that point... Can someone who has been to the presentation tell me how the bars work in an open concourse. As it looks to me as though all are within sight of the playing surface which, as I understand it, means alcohol couldn't be served. Obviously, that can't be the case, so I was wondering how they've got round it.That is something more like it. Like you said it breaks up the bowl and gives us a proper home end. Personally would prefer it slightly shallower but that would be better than what we are getting. As for the concourses take a read of this http://www.e-architect.co.uk/england/milto...ons_stadium.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaxbourton Red Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I agree to an extent, in that I would like to see the rake of seats taken back continuously at the home end, and do away with the concourse (Well, continue it, but beneath the seats with standard entrance ways to the seated area, rather than have it open, as it is in the design. I'm not sure what this would do to the capacity, but what I mean is something like this: It would only be a matter of a few rows, but it would get rid of the look of a continuous 'bowl' of seats appearance at that end (despite it still being there), would increase the capacity slightly and give it a clearer division as an 'end'. steady on, any more of that and you'll get labeled as a socialist dissenter wanting to spend other people's money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percy Parrot Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 I agree to an extent, in that I would like to see the rake of seats taken back continuously at the home end, and do away with the concourse (Well, continue it, but beneath the seats with standard entrance ways to the seated area, rather than have it open, as it is in the design. I'm not sure what this would do to the capacity, but what I mean is something like this: It would only be a matter of a few rows, but it would get rid of the look of a continuous 'bowl' of seats appearance at that end (despite it still being there), would increase the capacity slightly and give it a clearer division as an 'end'. Thing is, I don't know the cost implications, the feasibility of adding more seats to it if necessary to expand capacity etc., but I do feel the concourse is unnecessary at that end and the look would be better if it was done away with as a viewing gallery at that point. On that point... Can someone who has been to the presentation tell me how the bars work in an open concourse. As it looks to me as though all are within sight of the playing surface which, as I understand it, means alcohol couldn't be served. Obviously, that can't be the case, so I was wondering how they've got round it. Agree that would be mint. Would avoid the home end being split up, visually I think it'd look great full of fans and also as you pointed out avoid it looking too much like a "bowl" but without taking away the corners. Make sure it's mentioned! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizleCiderArmy Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I agree to an extent, in that I would like to see the rake of seats taken back continuously at the home end, and do away with the concourse (Well, continue it, but beneath the seats with standard entrance ways to the seated area, rather than have it open, as it is in the design. I'm not sure what this would do to the capacity, but what I mean is something like this: It would only be a matter of a few rows, but it would get rid of the look of a continuous 'bowl' of seats appearance at that end (despite it still being there), would increase the capacity slightly and give it a clearer division as an 'end'. Thing is, I don't know the cost implications, the feasibility of adding more seats to it if necessary to expand capacity etc., but I do feel the concourse is unnecessary at that end and the look would be better if it was done away with as a viewing gallery at that point. On that point... Can someone who has been to the presentation tell me how the bars work in an open concourse. As it looks to me as though all are within sight of the playing surface which, as I understand it, means alcohol couldn't be served. Obviously, that can't be the case, so I was wondering how they've got round it. That would be ideal. In that configuration it will be similar to the south bank at wolves. Last season when we were away to them i thought the racket that came out of that stand was incredible. That in mind i think with edsons version plus several blocks of unreserved seating, were onto a winner. Have to agree with doing away with the concourse though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I agree to an extent, in that I would like to see the rake of seats taken back continuously at the home end, and do away with the concourse (Well, continue it, but beneath the seats with standard entrance ways to the seated area, rather than have it open, as it is in the design. I'm not sure what this would do to the capacity, but what I mean is something like this: It would only be a matter of a few rows, but it would get rid of the look of a continuous 'bowl' of seats appearance at that end (despite it still being there), would increase the capacity slightly and give it a clearer division as an 'end'. Thing is, I don't know the cost implications, the feasibility of adding more seats to it if necessary to expand capacity etc., but I do feel the concourse is unnecessary at that end and the look would be better if it was done away with as a viewing gallery at that point. On that point... Can someone who has been to the presentation tell me how the bars work in an open concourse. As it looks to me as though all are within sight of the playing surface which, as I understand it, means alcohol couldn't be served. Obviously, that can't be the case, so I was wondering how they've got round it. It is better than the one before, no need for a concourse behind the goal as any bars, food outlets can be under the stand like most other stands, a south bank, wolves type of look would be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 It is better than the one before, no need for a concourse behind the goal as any bars, food outlets can be under the stand like most other stands, a south bank, wolves type of look would be ok. Well, the concourse would still be there. It would just be behind the seats rather than open to the pitch. As I say, I have no idea how this would affect costs or how feasible it would be. But, to my mind it would be a good compromise if it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Do you think they won't hear your bad language in another stand? :noexpression: Sound does travel you know. Christ, all you seem to do at the moment is be negative about everything. To be fair mate he has a point. If the one area was 16+ then it would stop the parents complaining or atleast if they were warned that if they sit in the area it may be boistrous and bad language will more than likely be heard then they may choose to sit elsewhere. I'm a dad and I wouldnt like my little girl hearing **** off referee or you stupid c*** being shouted so I would sit in the "family" stand if I was taking her. That said if she doesn't want to go I'd like to be sitting in the cheering section Basically despite sound traveling the further away from it that you are the less likely you are to hear it so if the family section is in another sound its less likely they'll hear you or me shout "**** off that was a free kick" etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I sit between the Atyeo and East End in the Williams very near the half way line, all the talk about low roofs the truth is when the Atyeo is provoked by the East End they sound loader than the East End blowing the roof theory out of the water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaxbourton Red Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 i agree with this completely. one point that i would like to make, and i don't think has been focused on too much, is that i think where the singing section of the new ground will be and how big it is, will totally depend on where the away fans are everyone seems to have the idea of a new east end behind the goal, which does sound awesome! however, looking at the trend of teams moving to new stadiums that go all the way around the ground (just look at swansea, hull, leicester, southampton etc etc) , it seems as though when away fans are behind the goal, the singing section always seems to congreaget right on the corner as close to away fans as possible. lansdown was saying on saturday in the dolman hall before the game why the away fans will most likely have to be housed behind the goal, and i will probably have to agree with his arguments cos they were valid points. i just still think it will benefit the atmosphere as a whole if they are in the corner or like someone already said, right up in the gods out the way. where the new east end is, in my opinion, will depend where the away fans go. those fans drift next to the away end because no consideration was given for the development of a specific home end in these new grounds thats why it is important we build a new eastend, especially if safe standing is re-introduced in a couple of years time, its pretty safe to say there will be no safe standing next to the away end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 I like the banter of being by the away fans, I think it adds to the atmosphere. I'd hate to be the other end of the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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