gater2 Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Just seen Trunds got 2 for the reserves. I know we had the debate before he left for Leeds, but I'd still like him to be given one last chance to prove himself. Maybe on the bench (instead of Styvar/John, neither of whom have set the world alight..) to be brought on on saturday. Surely he should be given this last chance to fight for a contract, especially as it looks like we may lose Dele in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Trundle has been given multiple opportunities and never truly delivered. BUT . . . . . He is here, he isnt going anywhere for the immediate future and if any of our strikers have a point to prove then it is he. If, for arguments sake, we lose or even fail to win the next two games then unless he is genuinely being considered as a permanent option Trundle should replace John on the bench AND be given the opportunity to prove his worth. Alternatively, whilst I think it is too early to truly judge Styvar, he has failed to set the world alight and as such it would make sense to say to Styvar ' You're a work in progress and will start next season', whilst telling Trundle 'Go out there and prove to all those that doubt you that you're Championship standard.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Trundle has been given multiple opportunities and never truly delivered. BUT . . . . . He is here, he isnt going anywhere for the immediate future and if any of our strikers have a point to prove then it is he. If, for arguments sake, we lose or even fail to win the next two games then unless he is genuinely being considered as a permanent option Trundle should replace John on the bench AND be given the opportunity to prove his worth. Alternatively, whilst I think it is too early to truly judge Styvar, he has failed to set the world alight and as such it would make sense to say to Styvar ' You're a work in progress and will start next season', whilst telling Trundle 'Go out there and prove to all those that doubt you that you're Championship standard.' Have you seen how Styvar has been doing in training? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 No. What are you insinuating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerly known as ivan Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Trundle has been given multiple opportunities and never truly delivered. BUT . . . . . He is here, he isnt going anywhere for the immediate future and if any of our strikers have a point to prove then it is he. If, for arguments sake, we lose or even fail to win the next two games then unless he is genuinely being considered as a permanent option Trundle should replace John on the bench AND be given the opportunity to prove his worth. Alternatively, whilst I think it is too early to truly judge Styvar, he has failed to set the world alight and as such it would make sense to say to Styvar ' You're a work in progress and will start next season', whilst telling Trundle 'Go out there and prove to all those that doubt you that you're Championship standard.' or it would make more sense to say 'styvar, you havent done it for us yet, but you are part of the plans for next season so use the last few games of this season to grab a few goals'. trundle has had plenty of chances to prove himself. even if he played the last few games and got a few goals that counted for nothing, he hasnt proved he can do it week in week out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 or it would make more sense to say 'styvar, you havent done it for us yet, but you are part of the plans for next season so use the last few games of this season to grab a few goals'. trundle has had plenty of chances to prove himself. even if he played the last few games and got a few goals that counted for nothing, he hasnt proved he can do it week in week out. I'm inclined to agree. Styvar needs to get the pace of the game. Realistically the only way he's going to get this is by getting 1st team action. Once the PO's are mathematically impossible I'd get him back in to the 1st 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Considering Styvar came straight into the first team and has since become restricted to infrequent substitute appearances, surely it would make more sense to give Trundle the opportunity to 'put himself in the shop window' as opposed to potentially undermining Styvar's confidence further by giving him impact run outs where he fails to make an impact. Let Trundle prove himself, if only with a view of helping him gain a move, and say to Styvar 'We paid money for you because you're a good player and very much in our first team plans. Settle in now and over the summer and let's start afresh next season when you will get a starting berth.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashcott Boy Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I would look to start Styvar on Saturday with both Trunds and Adebola on the bench. John is away on international duty and will, probably, not be here next season so i think Trunds could replace him on the bench. I have always been a massive optimist but i can genuinely see something in Styvar, he gives a good physical presence and, from what i've seen, he looks quick as well. Given a run of games with Maynard, preferably the remaining games this season as i feel play offs have gone, i feel they could forge an effective partnership ready for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Considering Styvar came straight into the first team and has since become restricted to infrequent substitute appearances, surely it would make more sense to give Trundle the opportunity to 'put himself in the shop window' as opposed to potentially undermining Styvar's confidence further by giving him impact run outs where he fails to make an impact. Let Trundle prove himself, if only with a view of helping him gain a move, and say to Styvar 'We paid money for you because you're a good player and very much in our first team plans. Settle in now and over the summer and let's start afresh next season when you will get a starting berth.' You can argue it both ways. A few goals at the fag end of the season probably won't make much difference where Trundle is concerned. It's v unlikley that anyone at this level is going to go for him. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter if Styvar plays this season or next, unless he starts playing better & getting goals/assists, the remaining confidence he has will be eroded. I'd prefer him having a few decent games, proving to himself he can hack it & then the close season, rather than all summer long him thinking whatever the Slovakian for "christ what have I done??". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I would look to start Styvar on Saturday with both Trunds and Adebola on the bench. John is away on international duty and will, probably, not be here next season so i think Trunds could replace him on the bench. I have always been a massive optimist but i can genuinely see something in Styvar, he gives a good physical presence and, from what i've seen, he looks quick as well. Given a run of games with Maynard, preferably the remaining games this season as i feel play offs have gone, i feel they could forge an effective partnership ready for next season. Whilst the PO's are still a theoretic possibility you have to play your best players & for me thats Dele & Maynard upfront. As per my other thread, if we can't reach the PO's then give Styvar some game time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 No. What are you insinuating? That he might be improving, adapting and developing in training to the point where he is above Trundle in making at least the bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 It's a case of the positives of Trundle scoring a couple outweighing the positives of Styvar doing so in my opinion. Despite his failures here and to a lesser extent Leeds, Trundle will be an attractive free agent proposition, especially for promoted League 1 clubs. Of course it's a gamble - if he fails to both inspire or score he will become even less attractive to potential suitors, and there is logic in both arguments, but even if he only scores one more goal in, say, 4 games {to me} he suddenly goes from a 'not interested' to a 'gamble.' You're not going to do Styvar any harm by explaining the situation and, if anything, he may well benefit from the stance. Because if he features in another four and fails to trouble the scorers then he will go into next season under pressure, rather than with a feeling of new beginnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangers Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Considering Styvar came straight into the first team and has since become restricted to infrequent substitute appearances, surely it would make more sense to give Trundle the opportunity to 'put himself in the shop window' as opposed to potentially undermining Styvar's confidence further by giving him impact run outs where he fails to make an impact. Let Trundle prove himself, if only with a view of helping him gain a move, and say to Styvar 'We paid money for you because you're a good player and very much in our first team plans. Settle in now and over the summer and let's start afresh next season when you will get a starting berth.' What a load of crap.....we should be playing Stryvar NOW so that he has the oportunity to adapt and get used to the pace and enery of British football, not go back to someone who has repeatadly faield at this level. Stryvar is the future, Trundle can disapear.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangers Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 It's a case of the positives of Trundle scoring a couple outweighing the positives of Styvar doing so in my opinion. Despite his failures here and to a lesser extent Leeds, Trundle will be an attractive free agent proposition, especially for promoted League 1 clubs. Of course it's a gamble - if he fails to both inspire or score he will become even less attractive to potential suitors, and there is logic in both arguments, but even if he only scores one more goal in, say, 4 games {to me} he suddenly goes from a 'not interested' to a 'gamble.' You're not going to do Styvar any harm by explaining the situation and, if anything, he may well benefit from the stance. Because if he features in another four and fails to trouble the scorers then he will go into next season under pressure, rather than with a feeling of new beginnings. Ok then lets give a run to someone who is 32 and will be gone by the end of next season if not this season..... Stryvar needs games, an extended run in the first team.....not 25 minutes here and there as that is no good for him whatsoever. Like it or not Stryvar has a future here, Trundle doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Thanks for the thought provoking replies. I'm well aware Styvar has a future and Trundle doesnt, something that I felt I made clear in the posts you quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkeeebles Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Ok then lets give a run to someone who is 32 and will be gone by the end of next season if not this season..... Stryvar needs games, an extended run in the first team.....not 25 minutes here and there as that is no good for him whatsoever. Like it or not Stryvar has a future here, Trundle doesnt. Yeah and Trundle can vouch for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 It's a case of the positives of Trundle scoring a couple outweighing the positives of Styvar doing so in my opinion. Despite his failures here and to a lesser extent Leeds, Trundle will be an attractive free agent proposition, especially for promoted League 1 clubs. Of course it's a gamble - if he fails to both inspire or score he will become even less attractive to potential suitors, and there is logic in both arguments, but even if he only scores one more goal in, say, 4 games {to me} he suddenly goes from a 'not interested' to a 'gamble.' You're not going to do Styvar any harm by explaining the situation and, if anything, he may well benefit from the stance. Because if he features in another four and fails to trouble the scorers then he will go into next season under pressure, rather than with a feeling of new beginnings. Isn't he under contract for next season too? Can't see too many clubs wanting to pay a fee (if we ask for one), and stumping up for his wages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidNoble Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Classic, Pure Trunds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Isn't he under contract for next season too? Can't see too many clubs wanting to pay a fee (if we ask for one), and stumping up for his wages Yep, he has another year. I'd say there was more chance of us offering him a settlement on it than there was of anyone offering us a fee for him and being prepared to take over his wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Yep, he has another year hopefully the manager will give him his chance before the end of his contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Ok then lets give a run to someone who is 32 and will be gone by the end of next season if not this season..... Stryvar needs games, an extended run in the first team.....not 25 minutes here and there as that is no good for him whatsoever. Like it or not Stryvar has a future here, Trundle doesnt. Unfortunately, from what we've seen of Styvar so far, there's no guarantee he's going to prove good enough for Championship football. I didn't get the impression GJ thought he was going to need a long settling in period to adapt to English football, the opposite in fact, I think he was expected to hit the ground running. Hence he went straight into the team, admittedly in tough games ( but aren't they all?) and has undoubtedly been a disappointment. He doesn't look as though he's got many goals in him at this level and strikers only have so many opportunities to make their mark. Let's hope there's alot more to him than we've seen because thus so far he certainly doesn't look a more effective player than Trundle, who you seem dismiss as not up to playing for City at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 What a load of crap.....we should be playing Stryvar NOW so that he has the oportunity to adapt and get used to the pace and enery of British football, not go back to someone who has repeatadly faield at this level. Stryvar is the future, Trundle can disapear.... It's not crap is it. Agree with it or not it's a well reasoned post from someone, who, if you read the forum regularly, you would know is far from Trundle's greatest advocate. Never mind the Trundle comparison though, perhaps you can say exactly what you've seen in Styvar to be so bullish that he is the future for Bristol City? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynamite Red Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 The bottom line is Trundle has had an ample amount of chances to not only prove his worth to the team but also the chance to prove he can regularly perform at this level. 57 league games and 7 goals proves he is not effective enough to justify his inclusion in the team. Fancy flicks, party tricks and the occasional moment of brilliance are all very well but as a striker he is judged on goals per games and frankly his return is terrible. His contract ends next season and we will be lucky to find any club to take him off our hands on a free transfer considering his £500k+ yearly contract, our best hope is that we can come to some form of settlement that means BCFC and LT can go there seperate ways which will benefit both parties. Styvar was been brought in 3 months ago and desrves to start some games if our chances of a play-off place are over. Signing a foriegn player who is alien to this country and level of football was always going to be a gamble and next season is the time to make judgement on the player in question. Giving Styvar 3-4 leagues starts is far more important than giving Trundle yet another chance, Styvar is only going to progress by starting games and getting minutes under his belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Reynolds Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Thanks for the thought provoking replies. I'm well aware Styvar has a future and Trundle doesnt, something that I felt I made clear in the posts you quote. This forum never ceases to amaze me. A poster makes a reasoned, and perfectly sensible post, and people act as though he's suggested we should give Styvar to the Gas in exchange for their Stadium Development Officer. I'm not sure about your point about Trundle putting himself in the shop window, that isn't really our concern. However, your point about putting Styvar under pressure rings very true and another few goalless games could do him a lot of harm. My two pence is that I'll drive Stern John back to Southampton with me after Saturday's game, and we should start with Maynard and Adebola as a front two, with Trundle on the bench. Give Styvar reserve matches (incidentally how many of these has he played, and how has he looked?) and the promise that after a full pre-season with the lads, a full summer to improve his language skills and some time to adapt to the area properly (bare in mind that he's only been here two months) and he'll have every chance to become a valuable member of the 16 next term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Unfortunately, from what we've seen of Styvar so far, there's no guarantee he's going to prove good enough for Championship football. I didn't get the impression GJ thought he was going to need a long settling in period to adapt to English football, the opposite in fact, I think he was expected to hit the ground running. Hence he went straight into the team, admittedly in tough games ( but aren't they all?) and has undoubtedly been a disappointment. He doesn't look as though he's got many goals in him at this level and strikers only have so many opportunities to make their mark. Let's hope there's alot more to him than we've seen because thus so far he certainly doesn't look a more effective player than Trundle, who you seem dismiss as not up to playing for City at this level. Agree 100% about Styvar, it is starting to look at least as though he is a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff65 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Give Styvar a break - or give him the 30 out of 33 game run that Trundle got when he first came here and then make judgments - 206 league minutes is not enough to tell whether he can make it or not - if we use that criteria none of our players would have looked the part in CCC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Most new signings seem to take a while to reach the very high fitness levels Gary Johnson demands of his players. Remember that we're only just getting towards the point in the season when Carle started to come good last year. Initially he was useless. Styvar may get there this season, he may not but I am sure that with a full preseason behind him we will see a much improved player and I would expect to see him partnering Maynard on a regular basis next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 Ok then lets give a run to someone who is 32 and will be gone by the end of next season if not this season..... Stryvar needs games, an extended run in the first team.....not 25 minutes here and there as that is no good for him whatsoever. Like it or not Stryvar has a future here, Trundle doesnt. Until we can't mathematically get into the playoffs GJ will do whatever he feels best to give us a chance of promotion. That might exclude Styvar for the moment Once/if this chance disappears then I think Styvar will get a starting berth and a run (albeit a short one for this season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 The bottom line is Trundle has had an ample amount of chances to not only prove his worth to the team but also the chance to prove he can regularly perform at this level. 20 plus starts in his first season!! Not enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityfan Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 If I was GJ my reasoning over Trundle might be as follows Paid alot of money for Trundle and haven't got the goals returned that I expected. I need someone (s) who can deliver more and therefore I have to go back and find a better striker. Mistake made, move on! If I was Trundle my thought's might be so Came to Bristol City as a proven goalscorer and they haven't played to my strength's that delivered all my goals in the past. So I ask myself why is that? The probable answer is down to style of football so if City continue to play the current way I am probably not going to score goals here. Does that make me a bad player? No! Does this make my colleague strikers bad players? No! As a fan I would say Not one player or striker has scored a number of goals that we would expect from them in the last 2 seasons. Therefore, it is the way we play and Trundle is not to blame and is at least worthy of a place on the bench because of his other qualities. Just as capable as any of our other strikers when it comes to goal scoring. If I was SL I would say It just needs a little tweak because these last 2 years have nearly taken us to the Premier League EVEN though all of our forwards have failed to score. Sit down with GJ and KM and try to understand and resolve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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