Trunds

[SJC]

Styvar has shown glimpses for the first team during some of his cameo roles, not a great deal but enough to give encouragement for next season. He was very quiet during the Fgr reserve game recently, literally for large durations, which lead me to believe the language barrier is still very much an issue.

Trundle is {apparently} on 10k a week and, realistically, has little to no long term future with the club. If ANY offer comes in the club will snatch 'their' hands off as they are no doubt keen to reduce their wage bill by a rather substantial 500k a year.

'Citydan' - personally I don't think Maynard/Adebola works so would not pair them regardless. However with talk seemingly growing by the day of Dele's departure, I think, presuming there is very much fire where there is smoke, the club should withdraw him from the first team (if/when playoffs are impossible) and wheel him out for a last home game standing ovation.

[cityfan]

Styvar has shown glimpses for the first team during some of his cameo roles, not a great deal but enough to give encouragement for next season. He was very quiet during the Fgr reserve game recently, literally for large durations, which lead me to believe the language barrier is still very much an issue.

Trundle is {apparently} on 10k a week and, realistically, has little to no long term future with the club. If ANY offer comes in the club will snatch 'their' hands off as they are no doubt keen to reduce their wage bill by a rather substantial 500k a year.

'Citydan' - personally I don't think Maynard/Adebola works so would not pair them regardless. However with talk seemingly growing by the day of Dele's departure, I think, presuming there is very much fire where there is smoke, the club should withdraw him from the first team (if/when playoffs are impossible) and wheel him out for a last home game standing ovation.

IF City lose on Saturday and the play off's are not possible, I would like to see John Akinde come back and play the remaining games of the season. Raw powerful talent that needs educating through first team appearances. Scored plenty of goals before he came here so encourage youth and see what happens

[Nogbad the Bad]

Most new signings seem to take a while to reach the very high fitness levels Gary Johnson demands of his players.

That's a fair point for new signings in general but, as I said earlier, I'm sure I read that it was in Styvar's favour that fitness/adapting to the English game weren't thought to be a problem in his case and he was expected to "hit the ground running".

Whether he was judged on that goal against Villa ( very doubtful ) or his previous record ( a bit vague ) or many scouting missions is not clear but everything said at the time of his signing indicated we had captured a player who was going to immediately enhance our goalscoring.

It is worrying that so far he has apparently not shown enough in training to prove himself worth a place in the team because that was surely the expectation by now.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Styvar was very quiet during the Fgr reserve game recently, literally for large durations, which lead me to believe the language barrier is still very much an issue.

Are you sure Styvar doesn't speak reasonable English? I'd be surprised if that was the case.

Trundle is {apparently} on 10k a week and, realistically, has little to no long term future with the club. If ANY offer comes in the club will snatch 'their' hands off as they are no doubt keen to reduce their wage bill by a rather substantial 500k a year.

You won't be surprised to hear that I'd rather Trundle stayed on as a member of the squad - he still has something different and valuable to add as a sub., if nothing else.

However with talk seemingly growing by the day of Dele's departure, I think, presuming there is very much fire where there is smoke, the club should withdraw him from the first team (if/when playoffs are impossible) and wheel him out for a last home game standing ovation.

Dele is very popular, but the extent of his tumultuous ovation may be dependant on who he is leaving us for.

[BCFC_Dan]

That's a fair point for new signings in general but, as I said earlier, I'm sure I read that it was in Styvar's favour that fitness/adapting to the English game weren't thought to be a problem in his case and he was expected to "hit the ground running".

Whether he was judged on that goal against Villa ( very doubtful ) or his previous record ( a bit vague ) or many scouting missions is not clear but everything said at the time of his signing indicated we had captured a player who was going to immediately enhance our goalscoring.

It is worrying that so far he has apparently not shown enough in training to prove himself worth a place in the team because that was surely the expectation by now.

I do recall hearing some things said along those lines, so I'm certainly not claiming they weren't said, but Styvar was signed during his old league's off-season and he hadn't played for several weeks, if not months with the exception of the UEFA cup.

He also has featured in the team on several occasions, often to good effect as well. He may not have scored yet but he has created opportunities and has been unlucky not to score.

[Pederho ll]

I think this whole debate about Trundle and Styvar really comes down to one thing and that's which player is likley to get us a few goals in the next six games, to try and get us into the play offs. I think many are looking to far ahead and next season at this moment in time is completely irrelevant.

In that regard, I would have to include Trundle on the bench, at least we know that he is scoring goals in the reserves and we all know that he does have the capability of producing a goal from nothing.....not often mind......but nevertheless he does possess such ability and on that basis he is likley to give us something a little different for the last 20 mins in a match where we need to introduce a pure attacking option.

Nothing against Styvar, but so far he hasn't shown us anything that what give us hope of him scoring should he appear on the scene from the bench. I'm sure he will come good, but this in my opinion is not the time to be 'giving somebody games', its all about picking the players that will get you results, to effectively keep the dream alive.

[Riaz]

I think this whole debate about Trundle and Styvar really comes down to one thing and that's which player is likley to get us a few goals in the next six games, to try and get us into the play offs. I think many are looking to far ahead and next season at this moment in time is completely irrelevant.

In that regard, I would have to include Trundle on the bench, at least we know that he is scoring goals in the reserves and we all know that he does have the capability of producing a goal from nothing.....not often mind......but nevertheless he does possess such ability and on that basis he is likley to give us something a little different for the last 20 mins in a match where we need to introduce a pure attacking option.

Nothing against Styvar, but so far he hasn't shown us anything that what give us hope of him scoring should he appear on the scene from the bench. I'm sure he will come good, but this in my opinion is not the time to be 'giving somebody games', its all about picking the players that will get you results, to effectively keep the dream alive.

You'll put a player that has proved he wont score, on the bench? I'd put the new player who has something to prove and the the manager rates very highly.

[SJC]

Nogbad;

I'm not sure how good Styvar's English is, and perhaps I misinterpret a language barrier for a confidence one, because what was very evident was players like Trundle and Noble were very vocal throughout while Styvar seemed hesitant in this respect.

I said quite some time ago that if Trundle would take a pay cut and fall onto a 'squad' wage I believe he could be valuable. My issue with Lee is that I don't think he has ever truly delivered and certainly does not justify his top end first team wage. To be honest now I think the 'ship has sailed' somewhat in the City-Trundle relationship, and regardless of wage it is probably best if he looks for work elsewhere.

Agree regarding Adebola ovation dependant on destination!

Dele has been fantastic for us in his short time here and none of us should judge if he bites the 'two year contract' carrot elsewhere.

[Nogbad the Bad]

If I was GJ my reasoning over Trundle might be as follows

Paid alot of money for Trundle and haven't got the goals returned that I expected. I need someone (s) who can deliver more and therefore I have to go back and find a better striker. Mistake made, move on!

If I was GJ I would be asking myself why I'd signed Trundle but then not played him regularly alongside a similar player to those he had thrived with in partnership elsewhere. GJ has said himself that he is 'a Trundle fan' - why then has he been unable to integrate him into the team so as to get the best out of him? If it has been discovered that Trundle is "not good enough for this level" then he was a very poor signing in the first place and a million pounds spent elsewhere may have seen us promoted last season. If I was GJ I would still want to give Trundle opportunities to rescue his career at City, particularly bearing in mind the uncertainty concerning the future of two of our other strikers.

If I was Trundle my thought's might be so

Came to Bristol City as a proven goalscorer and they haven't played to my strength's that delivered all my goals in the past. So I ask myself why is that? The probable answer is down to style of football so if City continue to play the current way I am probably not going to score goals here. Does that make me a bad player? No! Does this make my colleague strikers bad players? No!

Fair summary of Trundle's thoughts I should think.

As a fan I would say.

Not one player or striker has scored a number of goals that we would expect from them in the last 2 seasons. Therefore, it is the way we play and Trundle is not to blame and is at least worthy of a lace on the bench because of his other qualities. Just as capable as any of our other strikers when it comes to goal scoring.

Agreed, and as a fan I would add that I want to see entertaining players at AG. I think there is much more to Trundle than just the "flicks, tricks and showboating" some detractors accuse him of. They are an added extra and very welcome.

If I was SL I would say

It just needs a little tweak because these last 2 years have nearly taken us to the Premier League EVEN though all of our forwards have failed to score. Sit down with GJ and KM and try to understand and resolve

Indeed. Despite our success, the return of City's strikers has been poor for several seasons and not one striker has thrived at Ashton Gate. We will probably not progress until we can get another 10 or 15 goals out of the team, but particularly our forwards.

[BCFC_Dan]

Trundle's value was inflated by the state of the market at the time.

Spurs had just spent £17m on Darren Bent so Charlton had a bit of cash to spend and were buying up every striker going, as were the Championship's perennial accumulators of strikers Wolves and Sheff Utd.

With the likes of Varney, Sharp and Eastwood going for £1.5-2m a player like Trundle who would normally have been valued at maybe £500k suddenly becomes "worth" £1m. Not because he's that good but because that's what it takes to get him.

Whether or not he's good enough is another matter, but it's slightly unfair to bring his transfer fee into the equation because we really couldn't have got much better at the time for the money we paid.

[Tom Fleuriot]

Whether or not he's good enough is another matter, but it's slightly unfair to bring his transfer fee into the equation because we really couldn't have got much better at the time for the money we paid.

Just like to add that we can sit around saying "what if we'd bought..." after the event, and we'll always be right. Even for strikers, DJ Campbell (£1.2M), Earnshaw (£3.5M AND £2.65M), Marcus Bent (£1M), Freddy Eastwood (£1.5M) all cost more than Trundle. I don't think it shows that Johnson made a particularly poor decision. I also think that Trundle hasn't shown himself to be a big fat waste of money - worth buying him for the goal in the play-off semis alone.

In relation to the original question, I think playing Styvar and Maynard together AFTER playoffs are too tricky is the only way to go. I think for Preston Trundle should play - he's scored two goals in midweek and he's not left the club yet. Arguments about "shop window" etc are stupid, but we still need to win and Trundle scored two in midweek. If Trundle comes on and is rubbish, I think we should revert to Styvar no matter how much there is to play for. trundle not scoring would not mean he has done rubbish though.

[gater2]

Does anyone happen to have stats showing how many games Trunds has started in a row? I'd be interested to see that. Also, all the figures people are quoting (8 goals in 60 games I think it is) forget that 31 of these have been from the bench, probably averaging about 15mins, hardly that much time to make an impact. If you take those away, it's then 8 goals in 29 starts (I don't have the figures for how many goals he scored when coming on as sub, but I shouldn't think it'd be loads), which still isn't great, but is respectable: a better rate than Stern John - 2 in 13 starts, and actually similar to Maynard - 10 goals in 28 starts and Dele - 9 goals in 27 starts, both this season's figures.

I still think he deserves another chance. He's a quality footballer and I think we'd be missing a trick by letting him go. Even just a one year contract for next year. Given any kind of sustained run in the team (like he was used to at Swansea) and I think he'd deliver - like he began to show when he had a run in the team towards the end of last season.

[DavidNoble]

He shouldn't be given another chance imo. We have two journeymen in Dele and Stern to offer the experience and such as.

We have Nicky, Styvar and Akinde so we should try get the youngsters in the first team scoring.

[gater2]

He shouldn't be given another chance imo. We have two journeymen in Dele and Stern to offer the experience and such as.

We have Nicky, Styvar and Akinde so we should try get the youngsters in the first team scoring.

Stern John won't be with us next year. Akinde still needs to learn a lot (although yes I admit it would be good to give him 1st team opportunities next year). Dele might not even be with us next year (reports linking him to Sheff Weds/other clubs). Styvar deserves a chance next year, but what if he doesn't fire for us? I think LT should be given a one year contract, OR AT LEAST be given then chance in these last few games this season to earn that.

[Longacre_red]

Stern John won't be with us next year. Akinde still needs to learn a lot (although yes I admit it would be good to give him 1st team opportunities next year). Dele might not even be with us next year (reports linking him to Sheff Weds/other clubs). Styvar deserves a chance next year, but what if he doesn't fire for us? I think LT should be given a one year contract, OR AT LEAST be given then chance in these last few games this season to earn that.

his contract doesnt expire this year.

He will be gone in the summer. Would be suprised to ever see him in the squad again

[screech]

Stern John won't be with us next year. Akinde still needs to learn a lot (although yes I admit it would be good to give him 1st team opportunities next year). Dele might not even be with us next year (reports linking him to Sheff Weds/other clubs). Styvar deserves a chance next year, but what if he doesn't fire for us? I think LT should be given a one year contract, OR AT LEAST be given then chance in these last few games this season to earn that.

Based on what, he hasn't looked good enough at this level, and I was a Trundle fan when he signed.

He needs to leave this summer and get himself back playing regular football in the league below.

I'm flabbergasted that you want him on another contract here when he has done nothing in two seasons to earn it.

This love-in for Trundle is ridiculous, he never made the step-up, he probably left it too late in his career and right now he is on a downward spiral, the Swans had the best years of him, we got him a season or two too late. Have a mooch on a Leeds forum if you want some evidence.

[DavidNoble]

Trundle isn't really suited for us, he wants the free role and that is Gavin's position nailed down and if Gav isn't cutting it i doubt Trunds would improve on it.

[BigP]

If he took a pay cut, i would be happy for him to be given a chance, but he's a top earner doing .....not A lot......... so i would let him go otherwise. Great player that just couldn't cut it week in week out, a (million pound!) gamble that didn't pay off.

[gater2]

his contract doesnt expire this year.

He will be gone in the summer. Would be suprised to ever see him in the squad again

Didn't know his contract didn't run out, and I expect you're right. I would be surprised if he's even on the bench, but I still think it should happen.

[Nogbad the Bad]

[quote name='screech' date='Apr 3 2009, 11:20 PM' post='1078642'

This love-in for Trundle is ridiculous, he never made the step-up, he probably left it too late in his career and right now he is on a downward spiral, Have a mooch on a Leeds forum if you want some evidence.

[westonred]

Can we put this one to bed once and for all.

Trunds was a great footballer a few years back but he is not up to Championship football these days he struggled at league one level with Leeds recently so why does anyone think he can do a job for us?

[Nogbad the Bad]

Can we put this one to bed once and for all.

Trunds was a great footballer a few years back but he is not up to Championship football these days he struggled at league one level with Leeds recently so why does anyone think he can do a job for us?

It's really nothing at all to do with how his loan spell went at Leeds. There can be any number of reasons why loan spells aren't a big success, it happens all the time.

Trundle still has lots of admirers amongst City fans and while he remains at the club we'll continue to press his case for at least a place on the bench.

If you want the subject 'put to bed', perhaps it's a bit counterproductive of you to bump the thread to the top.

[Meh]

Trundle isn't really suited for us, he wants the free role and that is Gavin's position nailed down and if Gav isn't cutting it i doubt Trunds would improve on it.

Rather ironic that we had a player for so many months who many wanted tried in a free role, but, it never happened and yet suddenly, that is accomodated.

[fulham red]

Named on the bench today.. maybe GJ was looking at this thread!

[gater2]

I'm not going to say that proved my point today, but I think that it's happened a lot. 2 mins at the end of a game, and it's another 'appearance' without a goal. Well done to NM today for scoring (although I was unconvinced by his overall performance). But again, going back to my original point, I don't think Trundle has ever started 10 games in a row, having only scored once in that run. Other players have been given more of a chance than him. Slate me if you want, but that's my opinion.

[Andrew_V1]

I'm not going to say that proved my point today, but I think that it's happened a lot. 2 mins at the end of a game, and it's another 'appearance' without a goal. Well done to NM today for scoring (although I was unconvinced by his overall performance). But again, going back to my original point, I don't think Trundle has ever started 10 games in a row, having only scored once in that run. Other players have been given more of a chance than him. Slate me if you want, but that's my opinion.

I agree with you 100% on this Gater

His actual appearences, qwhile numerous, do not equate to many minutes actually playing on the pitch, and seeing as he is a confidence player it seems coutner productive to then slate the guy for trying to perform damnedm iracles in ridiculous spaces of time

[Riaz]

I agree with you 100% on this Gater

His actual appearences, qwhile numerous, do not equate to many minutes actually playing on the pitch, and seeing as he is a confidence player it seems coutner productive to then slate the guy for trying to perform damnedm iracles in ridiculous spaces of time

What a load of bullshit. Last Season he had loads of playing time....

[Bris Red]

Based on what, he hasn't looked good enough at this level, and I was a Trundle fan when he signed.

He needs to leave this summer and get himself back playing regular football in the league below.

I'm flabbergasted that you want him on another contract here when he has done nothing in two seasons to earn it.

This love-in for Trundle is ridiculous, he never made the step-up, he probably left it too late in his career and right now he is on a downward spiral, the Swans had the best years of him, we got him a season or two too late. Have a mooch on a Leeds forum if you want some evidence.

Tottaly agree, The guy is not good enough at this level end of. This love for Trundle also baffles me. He has done nothing of any note since he has been here. The only way for Trundle know unfortunatly is down, League 1 or even 2 is were he will be most comfartable at. We were foolish to think that a guy at the age of 30 who has never played above League 1 would be any good in the championship. It was a bad buy and we need to move on.

[Longacre_red]

Another appearance...another goal less game for Trundle....

[DavidNoble]

Another appearance...another goal less game for Trundle....

I'm not a Trundle fan but he would never score in less than a minute.