Justice?

[Andy Horsman]

Steve Gerrard, the Scouse OJ Simpson, must be shaking his head in disbelief at that outcome!!! The cctv pictres said it all.

Shame certain BCFC players past and present didn't have the same brand of ubiquitous British justice.

I am not posting this to titillate Andy 'drinkdriver' Stockhausen and his EP rent-a-lynch-mob,or to rake over a closed episode for the players concerned but to illustrate that the divide between Prem and the rest now extends to the courts as well.

I like Gerrard immensely, as a player, but even Joey Barton must be feeling hard done by as a result of this!!!!

[red man dan]

One thing I did find a little odd was that SG was the ONLY one of seven defendants to be cleared of any offence. Five of his friends admitted affray while an other admitted threatening behaviour. Of course we, having not been there on the night or in the courtroom, do not know all the facts but I do wonder if maybe the others felt they could not afford a legal team quite as adequate as SG could?

The whole episode is a shame, as up untill that point SG had come across as a model Pro and whilst this act may have been out of character and/or provoked its still not changed the facts that young people who look up to him have seen him in a pub fighting and throwing punches. I sincerely hope he has been cleared for the correct reasons AND not because of who he is or because of how much money he was able to spend on his 'defence'.

For the record I dont believe a comparison to the Orr/Brooker scenario is relevant to be honest, very different behaviour in a very different situation, and lets be fair here, the City players on that night continued to display violent and yobbish behaviour for a far longer period than SG and maintained and level of anger continuing to pursue their goal, they did not display a momentary lapse of control and then calm down. However, they have served their time for it so that is that.

[winterbournered]

How he was found not guilty after admitting in court of throwing at least 3 uppercuts is a mystery.

Obviously no evertonians amongst the jury!!!!!

[Jordan Tansley]

who is to say the story given was not the truth?

i've certainly been in a situation where i thought i was about to be hit before, and my immediate instinct is to protect myself by any means neccessary

you've seen one piece of footage and nothing of the other evidence. so perhaps, it would be wise to just shut up about something nobody on this forum could possibly have any knowledge of?

unless of course there was an influx of bristolians in southport that day and you all saw the incident? :noexpression:

[Andy Horsman]

who is to say the story given was not the truth?

i've certainly been in a situation where i thought i was about to be hit before, and my immediate instinct is to protect myself by any means neccessary

you've seen one piece of footage and nothing of the other evidence. so perhaps, it would be wise to just shut up about something nobody on this forum could possibly have any knowledge of?

unless of course there was an influx of bristolians in southport that day and you all saw the incident? :noexpression:

And do you believe in the tooth fairy and Santa too? My missus who knows nothing about football and doesn't know Steve Gerrard from Gerry Stevens watched the cctv clips and it was obvious who the aggressor was.

If Iran now nuked Israel,would they be justified in saying 'we hit first because we thought they were going to hit us'??!! :noexpression: :noexpression:

Poor analogy maybe, but the same scenario

And the other blokes pled guilty because they were innocent?

Ps I am not a Bristolian, although what that has to do with it beats me.

[Andy Horsman]

One thing I did find a little odd was that SG was the ONLY one of seven defendants to be cleared of any offence. Five of his friends admitted affray while an other admitted threatening behaviour. Of course we, having not been there on the night or in the courtroom, do not know all the facts but I do wonder if maybe the others felt they could not afford a legal team quite as adequate as SG could?

The whole episode is a shame, as up untill that point SG had come across as a model Pro and whilst this act may have been out of character and/or provoked its still not changed the facts that young people who look up to him have seen him in a pub fighting and throwing punches. I sincerely hope he has been cleared for the correct reasons AND not because of who he is or because of how much money he was able to spend on his 'defence'.

For the record I dont believe a comparison to the Orr/Brooker scenario is relevant to be honest, very different behaviour in a very different situation, and lets be fair here, the City players on that night continued to display violent and yobbish behaviour for a far longer period than SG and maintained and level of anger continuing to pursue their goal, they did not display a momentary lapse of control and then calm down. However, they have served their time for it so that is that.

Don't get me wrong, I am not condoning the behaviour of the 'Bristol 4' as such just comparing the legal outcomes.

[winterbournered]

who is to say the story given was not the truth?

i've certainly been in a situation where i thought i was about to be hit before, and my immediate instinct is to protect myself by any means neccessary

you've seen one piece of footage and nothing of the other evidence. so perhaps, it would be wise to just shut up about something nobody on this forum could possibly have any knowledge of?

unless of course there was an influx of bristolians in southport that day and you all saw the incident? :noexpression:

Affray- fight or noisy disturbance in public place

Was it a public place-Yes

Was there a fight-Yes

Was Steven Gerrard involved-Yes admitted himself he threw at least 3 uppercuts!!

Self defence or not he commited affray,if i was one of the others i'd be a bit miffed!!!!

[Mr Mosquito]

Affray- fight or noisy disturbance in public place

Was it a public place-Yes

Was there a fight-Yes

Was Steven Gerrard involved-Yes admitted himself he threw at least 3 uppercuts!!

Self defence or not he commited affray,if i was one of the others i'd be a bit miffed!!!!

Steven Gerrard is as guilty as hell using that criteria for affray. However, we must remember that we live in a society governed by public school educated legal Toffs. No doubt Steven Gerrard was able to buy his freedom as what counts in law in this country is the quality of defence lawyer you are able to buy rather than whether you are guilty or not. The Crown Prosecution Service and the whole legal establishment in this country stinks of corruption. Now that Gerrard has been found 'not guilty' then how can all his mates involved in the incident be prosecuted for at least being honest and admitting affray ????!!!!!

[Bangkok Red]

I like Gerrard immensely, as a player, but even Joey Barton must be feeling hard done by as a result of this!!!!

WTF??

Lets have a look at Joey Barton's claim to fame:-

1. Punched former Manchester City colleague Ousmane Dabo 5 times, leaving him unconscious and with a suspected detached retina??

2. Knocked a man to the ground outside McDonald's, jumped on him and proceeded to punch him a further 20 times before punching out a 16-year-old kid leaving him with broken teeth??

I hardly think Gerrard's three punches fall in the same category - get real FFS.

[Andy Horsman]

WTF??

Lets have a look at Joey Barton's claim to fame:-

1. Punched former Manchester City colleague Ousmane Dabo 5 times, leaving him unconscious and with a suspected detached retina??

2. Knocked a man to the ground outside McDonald's, jumped on him and proceeded to punch him a further 20 times before punching out a 16-year-old kid leaving him with broken teeth??

I hardly think Gerrard's three punches fall in the same category - get real FFS.

........And Barton was punished and imprisoned for his misdemeanours!!! Thats the REAL point I was making.

The analogy was with another scouse England international midfielder who was rightly punished for his crimes FFS

[edson]

Steven Gerrard is as guilty as hell using that criteria for affray. However, we must remember that we live in a society governed by public school educated legal Toffs. No doubt Steven Gerrard was able to buy his freedom as what counts in law in this country is the quality of defence lawyer you are able to buy rather than whether you are guilty or not. The Crown Prosecution Service and the whole legal establishment in this country stinks of corruption. Now that Gerrard has been found 'not guilty' then how can all his mates involved in the incident be prosecuted for at least being honest and admitting affray ????!!!!!

It was the CPS that brought the prosecution.

It was a jury of twelve citizens who heard all the evidence and decided he was not guilty.

[Bangkok Red]

........And Barton was punished and imprisoned for his misdemeanours!!! Thats the REAL point I was making.

The analogy was with another scouse England international midfielder who was rightly punished for his crimes FFS

Ha Ha.....nice back-pedal... you've gone from Barton "must be feeling hard done by as a result of this" to Barton "was rightly punished for his crimes"

Gerrard was rightly acquitted on the grounds of reasonable doubt - a fair judgement IMO

Barton's crimes were on a different level and there were no doubts whatsoever. Barton has no grounds to feel "hard done by" and your "point" doesn't stand up.

One other point...why has no one criticized the DJ's role in all of this? The guy brought it upon himself to a large extent?? The customer had management approval to choose some tracks and the DJ not only refused but was obnoxious with it. I don't have any sympathy for the DJ at all.

One more point....why do people in the UK get so uptight and come to blows over a minor incident like this??

FFS don't sweat the small stuff - it just ain't worth it.

[Andy Horsman]

Ha Ha.....nice back-pedal... you've gone from Barton "must be feeling hard done by as a result of this" to Barton "was rightly punished for his crimes"

Gerrard was rightly acquitted on the grounds of reasonable doubt - a fair judgement IMO

Barton's crimes were on a different level and there were no doubts whatsoever. Barton has no grounds to feel "hard done by" and your "point" doesn't stand up.

One other point...why has no one criticized the DJ's role in all of this? The guy brought it upon himself to a large extent?? The customer had management approval to choose some tracks and the DJ not only refused but was obnoxious with it. I don't have any sympathy for the DJ at all.

One more point....why do people in the UK get so uptight and come to blows over a minor incident like this?? Don't sweat the small stuff it just ain't worth it.

Not back pedalling just clarifying that I am most certainly not pro-Barton in any shape or form. Actually I don't care if a load of scousers kick ten bales out of each other!!

My original reference to Barton was tongue in cheek hence the 2 exclamation marks.

However people in the uk sweat it because the little people so often get hammered by the law, but those with wealth buy another type of justice. Sweating the small stuff means being aware when the big stuff happens.

Wonder how many of Gerrard's so called mates are glad they bit the bullet and copped a guilty plea now?!

Ps Diminutive ex City striker with HUUUGE chip on his shoulder reportedly burns a fifty pound note in front of a barmaid because he doesn't get served first, so like your DJ she is at fault for not genuflecting to minor local celeb irrespective of his behaviour and is therefore only getting treated the way she deserves. Whose point doesn't stand up now?

[Andy Horsman]

It was the CPS that brought the prosecution.

It was a jury of twelve citizens who heard all the evidence and decided he was not guilty.

See also Stefan Kisko and Barry George.........................and very nearly the poor bugger hounded and set up by the Met over the Rachel Nickell murder.

I can't help feeling if Freddy Bloggs hit Steve Gerrard three times in pre-emptive self-defence he would have been found guilty as charged.

[red man dan]

It was the CPS that brought the prosecution.

It was a jury of twelve citizens who heard all the evidence and decided he was not guilty.

Goblin........hello, where have you gone? :noexpression:

[edson]

See also Stefan Kisko and Barry George.........................and very nearly the poor bugger hounded and set up by the Met over the Rachel Nickell murder.

I can't help feeling if Freddy Bloggs hit Steve Gerrard three times in pre-emptive self-defence he would have been found guilty as charged.

I'm not suggesting the system is perfect. It's almost impossible for it to ever be that.

However, those twelve people heard all the evidence and decided he wasn't guilty. That may be wrong, it may be right, but it's surely a more educated conclusion than we can draw from just seeing some youtube footage.

My point was, the poster I was replying to was calling the CPS corrupt, when it was them who brought the prosecution, and it was twelve members of the public who found him not guilty.

I'm not defending Gerrard at all, I just found the accusatory nature of the post to not correlate with the case.

[Ronnie]

Steve Gerrard, the Scouse OJ Simpson, must be shaking his head in disbelief at that outcome!!! The cctv pictres said it all.

Shame certain BCFC players past and present didn't have the same brand of ubiquitous British justice.

I am not posting this to titillate Andy 'drinkdriver' Stockhausen and his EP rent-a-lynch-mob,or to rake over a closed episode for the players concerned but to illustrate that the divide between Prem and the rest now extends to the courts as well.

I like Gerrard immensely, as a player, but even Joey Barton must be feeling hard done by as a result of this!!!!

Iwas surprised he was not found guilty but l have not heard all the evidence, and there is no comparison of the bristol 4 offences and gerrards punch up.

[internetjef]

WTF??

Lets have a look at Joey Barton's claim to fame:-

1. Punched former Manchester City colleague Ousmane Dabo 5 times, leaving him unconscious and with a suspected detached retina??

2. Knocked a man to the ground outside McDonald's, jumped on him and proceeded to punch him a further 20 times before punching out a 16-year-old kid leaving him with broken teeth??

I hardly think Gerrard's three punches fall in the same category - get real FFS.

didnt he also put a cigar out in the eye of a YTS player at a man city xmas party

what a tool!

[Mr Mosquito]

It was the CPS that brought the prosecution.

It was a jury of twelve citizens who heard all the evidence and decided he was not guilty.

Again the Toff Crown Prosecution Service lawyers have wasted taxpayers' money on a class based issue. It wouldn't surprise me if the only real reason that the Toff CPS persued Gerrard and Co is because they speak with a broad Scouse accent. What is the CPS doing about bringing prosecutions against the banking Toff fraudsters that have nearly collapsed our economy ??!!! Excellent shout from wellyredhead because I also bet Bradders etc wished they had had the same result. However, Bradders and Co probably didn't have the £millions at their disposal for a top defence lawyer team.

[edson]

Again the Toff Crown Prosecution Service lawyers have wasted taxpayers' money on a class based issue. It wouldn't surprise me if the only real reason that the Toff CPS persued Gerrard and Co is because they speak with a broad Scouse accent. What is the CPS doing about bringing prosecutions against the banking Toff fraudsters that have nearly collapsed our economy ??!!! Excellent shout from wellyredhead because I also bet Bradders etc wished they had had the same result. However, Bradders and Co probably didn't have the £millions at their disposal for a top defence lawyer team.

So you're saying the CPS shouldn't have prosecuted Gerrard?

[red man dan]

Again the Toff Crown Prosecution Service lawyers have wasted taxpayers' money on a class based issue. It wouldn't surprise me if the only real reason that the Toff CPS persued Gerrard and Co is because they speak with a broad Scouse accent. What is the CPS doing about bringing prosecutions against the banking Toff fraudsters that have nearly collapsed our economy ??!!! Excellent shout from wellyredhead because I also bet Bradders etc wished they had had the same result. However, Bradders and Co probably didn't have the £millions at their disposal for a top defence lawyer team.

You must have MASSIVE quad muscles from carrying around those boulders on your shoulders 24/7.

I'm just surprised you haven't tried to insult the 'puppet' corrupt police somewhere along the line in this thread.

[Mr Mosquito]

You must have MASSIVE quad muscles from carrying around those boulders on your shoulders 24/7.

I'm just surprised you haven't tried to insult the 'puppet' corrupt police somewhere along the line in this thread.

I haven't got chips - or even logs - on my shoulders I've got boulders.

I actually don't blame the Police on this occasion as I believe they were called to the incident and took statements as is their job. The statements then winged there way under the noses of the Toff CPS lawyers who were most likely gagging at the prospect of being able to try and humiliate a Scouse football icon in the courtroom.

[edson]

I haven't got chips - or even logs - on my shoulders I've got boulders.

I actually don't blame the Police on this occasion as I believe they were called to the incident and took statements as is their job. The statements then winged there way under the noses of the Toff CPS lawyers who were most likely gagging at the prospect of being able to try and humiliate a Scouse football icon in the courtroom.

So you are saying they shouldn't have prosecuted him?

Earlier on you said he was guilty as hell.

[Mr Mosquito]

So you are saying they shouldn't have prosecuted him?

Earlier on you said he was guilty as hell.

It's all a question of priorities Edson.

Using the criteria for affray - as laid out by a previous poster - Gerrard was, indeed, as guilty as hell. However, the priority of the Toff class based CPS always seems to be to hammer working class people and their icons rather than go after the people that have caused real damage to our country's economy i.e. the banking Toffs. Prosecuting Gerrard and Co would be way down my list of priorities at the moment when there are 'guilty as hell' banking Toffs to be prosecuted.

[edson]

It's all a question of priorities Edson.

Using the criteria for affray - as laid out by a previous poster - Gerrard was, indeed, as guilty as hell. However, the priority of the Toff class based CPS always seems to be to hammer working class people and their icons rather than go after the people that have caused real damage to our country's economy i.e. the banking Toffs. Prosecuting Gerrard and Co would be way down my list of priorities at the moment when there are 'guilty as hell' banking Toffs to be prosecuted.

So, if someone (ok, let's say a group of people, as you're quite a big bloke) beat you up in the street, you wouldn't want them prosecuted because bankers haven't been prosecuted for their part in the collapse of Britain's economy?

I don't think you can look at it like that.

The judge even said in summary that the case had initially appeared clear-cut, but became less so after careful analysis of the evidence.

On the one hand, you seem to be saying he was guilty as hell, on the other you seem to be saying he was only prosecuted by the CPS because he's from a working class background, and on the other (ok, I need three hands here), you seem to be saying he was always going to get off because he could afford John Kelsey-Fry as a defence barrister, which the CPS surely knew.

I'm just not clear what point you're making.

[lugger]

So, if someone (ok, let's say a group of people, as you're quite a big bloke) beat you up in the street, you wouldn't want them prosecuted because bankers haven't been prosecuted for their part in the collapse of Britain's economy?

I don't think you can look at it like that.

The judge even said in summary that the case had initially appeared clear-cut, but became less so after careful analysis of the evidence.

On the one hand, you seem to be saying he was guilty as hell, on the other you seem to be saying he was only prosecuted by the CPS because he's from a working class background, and on the other (ok, I need three hands here), you seem to be saying he was always going to get off because he could afford John Kelsey-Fry as a defence barrister, which the CPS surely knew.

I'm just not clear what point you're making.

There is only ever one point and that is to use the words "toff" and "class" in the same sentence as many times as he can! I admire passion and dedication to the cause wolfie but the CPS have no case with the bankers, they deal with criminal action towards the state/community, and whilst the financial crisis could be percieved as criminal in some eyes, others will see it as misjudgement of the highest order and the corrective action has been taken. I'd like a good public stoning but can't see it happening. I would suggest the CPS had no choice as this man is held in high regard by liverpool fans and many young kids so he had to be challenged regardless of class

[Guest MaloneFM]

I'm just not clear what point you're making.

The point is that he wants to hijack yet another thread and turn it into a rant about polticians and bankers with the EU thrown in. With the occasional offensive connection between the police and the gestapo for good measure. To sustain this attempt it always starts with a refernce to the current topic.

Such as.

Yes I agree its raining again, like it rains on all good working class people but not the toffs of the corrupt CPS or the bankers who have ruined the country backed up by the EU loving lib/lab/con politicians with their noses in the trough. Supported by the gestapo police blah de blah de blah...

Its always the point. And its always the same ones.

[ZedRed]

Again the Toff Crown Prosecution Service lawyers have wasted taxpayers' money on a class based issue. It wouldn't surprise me if the only real reason that the Toff CPS persued Gerrard and Co is because they speak with a broad Scouse accent. What is the CPS doing about bringing prosecutions against the banking Toff fraudsters that have nearly collapsed our economy ??!!! Excellent shout from wellyredhead because I also bet Bradders etc wished they had had the same result. However, Bradders and Co probably didn't have the £millions at their disposal for a top defence lawyer team.

what a load of rubbish..if every bar fight was brought to court how clogged up would the judicial system get?? Gerrard was only brought to court because of who he was and it was a 'story' worthy of press time. Affray is the lowest charge of public disorder offences apart from breach of the peace and generally results in fines or community service gerrards few spazzy uppercuts wouldnt have resulted in anything like what some of the muppets on here wanted him to get in terms of sentencing even if he had been joe bloggs with no money..to compare him with repeat offender barton is pathetic

[Redbarn]

Steve Gerrard, the Scouse OJ Simpson, must be shaking his head in disbelief at that outcome!!! The cctv pictres said it all.

Shame certain BCFC players past and present didn't have the same brand of ubiquitous British justice.

I am not posting this to titillate Andy 'drinkdriver' Stockhausen and his EP rent-a-lynch-mob,or to rake over a closed episode for the players concerned but to illustrate that the divide between Prem and the rest now extends to the courts as well.

I like Gerrard immensely, as a player, but even Joey Barton must be feeling hard done by as a result of this!!!!

Had Gerrard gone down for this, it probably would have started the Toxteth riots off again.

[red man dan]

It's all a question of priorities Edson.

Using the criteria for affray - as laid out by a previous poster - Gerrard was, indeed, as guilty as hell. However, the priority of the Toff class based CPS always seems to be to hammer working class people and their icons rather than go after the people that have caused real damage to our country's economy i.e. the banking Toffs. Prosecuting Gerrard and Co would be way down my list of priorities at the moment when there are 'guilty as hell' banking Toffs to be prosecuted.

You really are a tired out old record aren't you. I think we all know by now your views on the 'system', but your consistent efforts to attribute everything bad with this country to the 'toff' society and your consistent inability to recognise the other factors that attack Britain's moral fibre is simply undermining your opinion. It is fairly obvious to everyone that what the 'bankers' (used loosely) did is totally unacceptable but they are not alone for the state in which our country finds itself. They are not the ones who refuse to get/take jobs, but instead sponge off the government, steal people laptops and rob old grannies flats. They are not the ones who go out on a Saturday night and accept fighting with innocent victims as part of their enjoyment. Mr Banker may have ******** up my ISA but I'm not worried that he'll indiscriminately attack someone on my street with total disregard for human life, or break into my house whilst high on drugs 'because' its funny, or sit around in his government paid for house all day waiting to go out at night and spend the money he didn't earn at the local Wetherspoons and smash up a store window or car on his way home.