Will Rollason Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 I do think its time to stop comparing our disallowed goal with theirs as it sounds like we are trying to justify what happened. It was wrong and we know it. Good goals are chalked off each week up and down the land for offside and apart from a quick moan nobody really complains as they cannot really tell if they are offside or not at the time( nobody EVER thinks they are offside) , see Hartley yesterday ,and that is the rub of the green, its the officials decision The difference with their "goal" was that all the players and everyone in the Atyeo knew that it blatantly was a goal. However the officials did not ask any of our or Palaces players or the crowd for their opinion whilst they were discussing it. IMO,these are the Issues ; (1)should our players have told the ref that it was a goal (and If any of them had would it have made a difference?) (2) having seen the goal disallowed should we have allowed Palace to score unopposed? Now I think i speak for most of us when i say that as it was Neil W**ker/ Tango mans team then the answer to both questions is NO and believe me i laughed myself silly when the ref disallowed it and i KNEW we would snatch a winner But for the record, against any other manager, i think that someone should have gone to the ref and said " mate, it went in" and let them score if he disallowed it. I feel uncomfortable about it now and i think that's why we're all getting uptight about being called cheats. Yes the ref chalked it off so we are absolved of any responsibility....but we all know that it was a goal. Imagine we had let them score, we would be the most popular club in the world and we may well have won the game anyway, who knows. Deep down do any of you think that the answers to (1) and (2) should have been yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Point is saab. If all "good" goals were given, then they would have still lost. So the mistake, if it was one - did not cost them the game. They lost fair and square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City_pete1 Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 I do think its time to stop comparing our disallowed goal with theirs as it sounds like we are trying to justify what happened. It was wrong and we know it. Good goals are chalked off each week up and down the land for offside and apart from a quick moan nobody really complains as they cannot really tell if they are offside or not at the time( nobody EVER thinks they are offside) , see Hartley yesterday ,and that is the rub of the green, its the officials decision The difference with their "goal" was that all the players and everyone in the Atyeo knew that it blatantly was a goal. However the officials did not ask any of our or Palaces players or the crowd for their opinion whilst they were discussing it. IMO,these are the Issues ; (1)should our players have told the ref that it was a goal (and If any of them had would it have made a difference?) (2) having seen the goal disallowed should we have allowed Palace to score unopposed? Now I think i speak for most of us when i say that as it was Neil W**ker/ Tango mans team then the answer to both questions is NO and believe me i laughed myself silly when the ref disallowed it and i KNEW we would snatch a winner But for the record, against any other manager, i think that someone should have gone to the ref and said " mate, it went in" and let them score if he disallowed it. I feel uncomfortable about it now and i think that's why we're all getting uptight about being called cheats. Yes the ref chalked it off so we are absolved of any responsibility....but we all know that it was a goal. Imagine we had let them score, we would be the most popular club in the world and we may well have won the game anyway, who knows. Deep down do any of you think that the answers to (1) and (2) should have been yes? In complete honesty... 1) maybe, although would be very strange and I could not see it happening. Staying quiet on the situation was the right thing to do me thinks. 2) No. But... As GJ said, we were told it was for an infringement, as confirmed by ref after game. (refs make bad decisions on things like that throughout a game, where do you draw the line?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted August 16, 2009 Admin Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 I do think its time to stop comparing our disallowed goal with theirs as it sounds like we are trying to justify what happened. It was wrong and we know it. Good goals are chalked off each week up and down the land for offside and apart from a quick moan nobody really complains as they cannot really tell if they are offside or not at the time( nobody EVER thinks they are offside) , see Hartley yesterday ,and that is the rub of the green, its the officials decision The difference with their "goal" was that all the players and everyone in the Atyeo knew that it blatantly was a goal. However the officials did not ask any of our or Palaces players or the crowd for their opinion whilst they were discussing it. IMO,these are the Issues ; (1)should our players have told the ref that it was a goal (and If any of them had would it have made a difference?) (2) having seen the goal disallowed should we have allowed Palace to score unopposed? Now I think i speak for most of us when i say that as it was Neil W**ker/ Tango mans team then the answer to both questions is NO and believe me i laughed myself silly when the ref disallowed it and i KNEW we would snatch a winner But for the record, against any other manager, i think that someone should have gone to the ref and said " mate, it went in" and let them score if he disallowed it. I feel uncomfortable about it now and i think that's why we're all getting uptight about being called cheats. Yes the ref chalked it off so we are absolved of any responsibility....but we all know that it was a goal. Imagine we had let them score, we would be the most popular club in the world and we may well have won the game anyway, who knows. Deep down do any of you think that the answers to (1) and (2) should have been yes? If the boot were on the other foot and the Ref had given a goal for a ball that didn't cross the line, would he believe the players if they told him so and then disallow it, no, I think you'll find is the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red badger Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 At the time there was total confusion - I can't imagine that any of our players thought the ball hadn't gone in the net - but once the ref ran to the linesman it appeared like any other incident at which the linesman had flagged...offside? Push? Only after the ref had given us a goal kick did it seem ridiculous...and by then he'd made his decision. No goal. He apparently didn't share the reasons for the decision with the City bench. And we still don't know why the goal didn't stand. In the circumstances I don't see how our players could have told the ref it was a goal or made a decision to gift Palace a goal. I don't feel bad about it at all...these things happen all the time...just not quite so spectacularly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Point is Saab, that no-one knew at the time why the goal was disallowed. I certainly thought that the linesman had flagged for an infringement and thats why it wasn't given. Almost everyone had seen the ball hit the metal bar at the bottom of the net and bounce straight out and assumed that Palace had scored a legitimate goal. Then we saw the flag. No way should City have allowed Palace to walk the ball into our net as Johnson couldn't have know for certain why the goal was chalked off. Imo there is no morale issue here. The referee got it wrong and it happened to go in City's favour. Thats tough of Palace but they had a dodgy decision go thier way when Hartley's perfectly good goal was chalked off by the same linesman. That was tough on City just like last week at Preston with a mystery 2 mins added time on top of added time along with a dodgy penalty awarded against us. All the furore since has come fom Tango man and Colin mouthing off and somehow blaming City for what was the referee's mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdgifford64 Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 With all the pundits giving their opinions has anybody asked Roy Carroll for his take on things ? PDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BITW Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Point is saab. If all "good" goals were given, then they would have still lost. So the mistake, if it was one - did not cost them the game. They lost fair and square. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibbler Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Point is Saab, that no-one knew at the time why the goal was disallowed. I certainly thought that the linesman had flagged for an infringement and thats why it wasn't given. Almost everyone had seen the ball hit the metal bar at the bottom of the net and bounce straight out and assumed that Palace had scored a legitimate goal. Then we saw the flag. If the linesman flagged for an infringement then that changes everything but it looked to me like he thought it had gone wide in which case I have to agree with Saab (though he is my brother), the right thing to do would have been to give them a goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 If the linesman flagged for an infringement then that changes everything but it looked to me like he thought it had gone wide in which case I have to agree with Saab (though he is my brother), the right thing to do would have been to give them a goal. Would they have let us walk the ball into the net when our good goal was disallowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted August 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Point is saab. If all "good" goals were given, then they would have still lost. So the mistake, if it was one - did not cost them the game. They lost fair and square. hard to say isnt it Riaz, we will never know. If the boot were on the other foot and the Ref had given a goal for a ball that didn't cross the line, would he believe the players if they told him so and then disallow it, no, I think you'll find is the answer. Yep, thats why i asked whether the ref would have taken any notice if any of our players HAD owned up. Point is Saab, that no-one knew at the time why the goal was disallowed. I certainly thought that the linesman had flagged for an infringement and thats why it wasn't given. Almost everyone had seen the ball hit the metal bar at the bottom of the net and bounce straight out and assumed that Palace had scored a legitimate goal. Then we saw the flag. Good point Robbo, i only have the Atyeo perspective. Unfortunately we still dont know what the goal was chalked off for... do we? All we know is that Hackett has suspended the whole officiating team. Why? What was the Lino flagging for? Why was the goal disallowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibbler Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Would they have let us walk the ball into the net when our good goal was disallowed? The Hartley goal was debatable, based on the linesman's offside decision. There was nothing debatable about Sears goal, it didn't just cross the line it hit the back of the goal and the linesman missed it. Saab's point is that we all know it was wrong and it's not the same as dodgy offsides or penalty decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Unfortunately we still dont know what the goal was chalked off for... do we? All we know is that Hackett has suspended the whole officiating team. Why? What was the Lino flagging for? Why was the goal disallowed? The only person that can answer those questions is the referee himself and so far we've heard nothing from him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdgifford64 Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 The Hartley goal was debatable, based on the linesman's offside decision. There was nothing debatable about Sears goal, it didn't just cross the line it hit the back of the goal and the linesman missed it. Saab's point is that we all know it was wrong and it's not the same as dodgy offsides or penalty decisions. But it`s not our decision to make, or indeed the players. When was the last time you saw any player try to correct an officials decision that went against his team ? This is just an exagerrated incident that occurs every day when a match takes place, a dodgy refereeing decision. The thing that has blown this up is the reactions from Warnock/Jordan aided by subsequent comments from so called football pundits. As far as i`m concerned the integrity of this club, from the players up to the boardroom is intact. An important word that- integrity. I doubt you`ll find it used much in and around Selhurst Park. PDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 With all the pundits giving their opinions has anybody asked Roy Carroll for his take on things ? PDG yes, but that was man united so thats okay. no one would say anything against strawberry noses mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibbler Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 But it`s not our decision to make, or indeed the players. When was the last time you saw any player try to correct an officials decision that went against his team ? This is just an exagerrated incident that occurs every day when a match takes place, a dodgy refereeing decision. The thing that has blown this up is the reactions from Warnock/Jordan aided by subsequent comments from so called football pundits. As far as i`m concerned the integrity of this club, from the players up to the boardroom is intact. An important word that- integrity. I doubt you`ll find it used much in and around Selhurst Park. PDG Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy for Warnock or Jordan they've behaved abominably and Warnock certainly wouldn't have done any differently. However, just because other managers aren't sporting doesn't make our behaviour any the less unsporting. we're making excuses for something we know was wrong. Now you may take the view that it's just an exaggerated version of a dodgy offside (as you do) or you may think that it's a special case (which I'm inclined to think). Also, there are precedents for similar situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 The Hartley goal was debatable, based on the linesman's offside decision. There was nothing debatable about Sears goal, it didn't just cross the line it hit the back of the goal and the linesman missed it. Saab's point is that we all know it was wrong and it's not the same as dodgy offsides or penalty decisions. have you not seen the photo on here, that clearly shows he was onside?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdgifford64 Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Don't get me wrong, I have no sympathy for Warnock or Jordan they've behaved abominably and Warnock certainly wouldn't have done any differently. However, just because other managers aren't sporting doesn't make our behaviour any the less unsporting. we're making excuses for something we know was wrong. Now you may take the view that it's just an exaggerated version of a dodgy offside (as you do) or you may think that it's a special case (which I'm inclined to think). Also, there are precedents for similar situations. I don`t know anything was wrong. I know the officials came to arrive at a decision that, until we get some clarity, is baffling. Therein lies the problem. Mr Hackett has suspended the officials pending an investigation. So how long do we now have to wait for the official version of events ? Because we can moralise as much as we want, until we know exactly why the referee disallowed that goal, nobody was under any obligation to take any action other than just get on with the game. PDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibbler Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 have you not seen the photo on here, that clearly shows he was onside?? No I haven't and it wouldn't matter if I had, (as the OP points out, everyone ALWAYS thinks they've been hard done by with offsides). An offside is a split second decision that linesmen often get wrong. The ball hitting the back of the net isn't. Personally i agree with Saab, these attempts at justification just make it worse. In reality, we know we robbed them and we don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Imagine we had let them score, we would be the most popular club in the world and we may well have won the game anyway, who knows. No we would be the soft touch club who just rolll over and hands points to anyone who screams the loudest. I am totally against the idea of gifting goals other than truly exceptional circumstances (Yeovil v Plymouth). Gifting goals would be one step closer to sanitising the game. The rules for yesterdays game we clear to all from the start, we played to those rules and abided by the decisions of the officials, some in our favour some not, as we did against Preston the previous week. You cannot half way through a game start bringing in your own rules. The respect campaign not reach Palace yet it seems, or do they have their own rules for that too? I am disgusted by the comments coming out from Crystal Palace branding us as cheats. I hope the FA are watching and will take action to stop us and any other team having their integrity questioned. Actually why am I bothered, its only Warnock/Jordan. It's not as if a respected manager or chairman is questioning us is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted August 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 The only person that can answer those questions is the referee himself and so far we've heard nothing from him at all. Absolutely. have you not seen the photo on here, that clearly shows he was onside?? Point is Riaz that at the time it was accepted as a linesmans call. We dont have redress to video evidence( rightly imo). I dont want us to start arguing over this anyway, i dont give a flying one about Palace but am concerned over our rep being smeared. Perhaps a statement from Keith Hackett over our role in all this would be welcome and as Edson has pointed out a large fine for Warnock and his chairman closely followed by our £250,000 thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted August 16, 2009 Report Share Posted August 16, 2009 Absolutely. Point is Riaz that at the time it was accepted as a linesmans call. We dont have redress to video evidence( rightly imo). I dont want us to start arguing over this anyway, i dont give a flying one about Palace but am concerned over our rep being smeared. Perhaps a statement from Keith Hackett over our role in all this would be welcome and as Edson has pointed out a large fine for Warnock and his chairman closely followed by our £250,000 thanks! Exactly! and whichever way you look at it, we have done nothing wrong. My point I was trying to make is that the result was'nt affected. But we are coming out of this as being cheats. It makes me angry. So I have no intention with arguing with you, but if you know any palace fans in the knowle area, please let me know so I can put them straight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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