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Lee Johnson Treatment


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Thought he looked quite tidy with Hartley and think having them both on in midfield (at times) can be massive.

Get behind the team, whoever they are.

If you said this at the start of the season I think I'd moan you but I think LJ and Hartely could work and maybe worth a try if clarkson gets injured with hartely playing the more attacking midfield role and Lj behind with Elliot also seemed Hartely and LJ have could work well together e.g some of the set peices they were trying.

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If I'm honest, I think the praise for Hartley so far is overdone and maybe based on reputation. I haven't seen him do much on the ball that is better than Lee Johnson. Granted he's tougher, meaner and uglier - all positives in that he gives us more grit. On the other hand he has far less stamina, and for my money has wasted lots of dead ball opportunities - supposed to be one of his strengths.

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If I'm honest, I think the praise for Hartley so far is overdone and maybe based on reputation. I haven't seen him do much on the ball that is better than Lee Johnson. Granted he's tougher, meaner and uglier - all positives in that he gives us more grit. On the other hand he has far less stamina, and for my money has wasted lots of dead ball opportunities - supposed to be one of his strengths.

The praise for Hartley was always going to overexaggerated by those who did not like LJ. Already I have seen simple balls, that many lambasted LJ for, being clapped when Hartley plays them. He has played a number of the infamous 'sideways and backwards' balls that LJ plays and there is not an utterance from the crowd, quite rightly as they were the correct or perfectly legitimate balls to play, however had it been LJ playing them they would have been met with grunts and moans of negativity and so forth. Whilst Hartley is a good player and I am delighted we have him here, it is plain to see that he has already become a player who, for many, particularily those who disliked LJ, can do no wrong. Against Palace he simply had a good game, certainly nothing out of the ordinary or massively better than what I believe we have seen in the past from LJ, he had a solid good game, all be it with wasting two very good free kicks with rather poor efforts.

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Definitly a good deal of booing when LJ came on from the Ateyo. I sit in block D and it was embarrasing to here this. There is also some where behind the walkway nearer the back of the stand I think where there really is a moronic LJ hater. Every game Lee played last season he was the recipient of some foul mouthed tirades from this idiot. So as soon as DL announced LJ coming on he started. It went something like this. ( F'ing hell Johnson your a F'ing W'er what a waste of time that F'ing pathetic Johnson get him off). But this happens every time LJ gets on the park. He had'nt even kicked a ball. I really do think that the stewards should actually be doing something about this sort of unnesacery abuse.

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I've not read the majority of this thread, infact I only read a small segment before I knew what I wanted to say which is I've never disliked LJ ever, I've disiked him being played when we've had better. Having said that GJ picking Hartley and Elliot shows imo that he will play the best players available and by not having LJ start each week with this new formation he's not favouring him.

For those reasons there is NO reason to boo him. The guy, as said in the OP, is a City player and has done nothing wrong. He's actually a pretty good player when on form and if the City "fans" who were booing him continue to do so sooner or later he'll leave and we'll have lost a good player for our squad.

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Some of the old farts near me started to grumble when he came on but shut up as soon as he put the pass in to create our goal.

To be honest I think the substitution made a lot of sense. We'd been playing with four strikers on the pitch and midfield was starting to struggle.

And in a strange way Paul Hartley could be really good for LJ's career. Now Hartley seems to have taken over LJs role as playmaker and set-piece taker, all the responsibility has been taken off LJs shoulders. If he can be "just another player" and play with more freedom and confidence. He could finally fulfill his potential.

On the other hand the boo-boys could all get on his back and destroy him...

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The praise for Hartley was always going to overexaggerated by those who did not like LJ. Already I have seen simple balls, that many lambasted LJ for, being clapped when Hartley plays them. He has played a number of the infamous 'sideways and backwards' balls that LJ plays and there is not an utterance from the crowd, quite rightly as they were the correct or perfectly legitimate balls to play, however had it been LJ playing them they would have been met with grunts and moans of negativity and so forth. Whilst Hartley is a good player and I am delighted we have him here, it is plain to see that he has already become a player who, for many, particularily those who disliked LJ, can do no wrong. Against Palace he simply had a good game, certainly nothing out of the ordinary or massively better than what I believe we have seen in the past from LJ, he had a solid good game, all be it with wasting two very good free kicks with rather poor efforts.

Dan,

Due to distance and finances I haven't seen us play yet this season, so cannot comment from direct experience, but am looking forward to seeing our new signings and new formation.

I am sure there is a lot of Hartley's game that is no different than LJ's however, I suspect there are a couple of major differences to his game that make a positive impact on the team.

Quite a lot of posters comment that Hartley is a leader on the pitch, organising players around him, and I suspect his experience means he commands respect from the rest of the team. Elliot is a stong player for us, but he does seem a quiet player and Lee Johnson is much the same. We have Orr and Carey at the back who are vocal and drive other players on (or mad in Sproule's case) but that is something we seem to have lacked in midfield.

Secondly , Hartley appears to be a much stronger player - more combative and physical. I've seen posts likening him to mix of a fit Tommy D and Tinnion. Over the last 2 seasons one of our biggest problems was that GJ had to compromise formation and selection to bolster the midfield because we were too easily overrun through central midfield - e.g. McIndoe having to tuck in and us generally playing very narrow. If Hartley is as strong a player as he appears to be , then we have a lot more options because he and Ellliot are more than capable of looking after themselves. Lee does not give us that same physical presence.

Lee Johnson is a good footballer, but I think it might well be the case that he doesn't give us as much as Hartley does.

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Hartley does everything that LJ did and a lot more. His passing is slightly more accurate, his set pieces seem better (the free kicks need improvemnt admittedly but we almost scored off a corner twice last night) and he has a leadership presence which LJ never has had. But the most important advantages we get from playing him are that he can actually tackle, mark and make a defensive contribution and doesn't pass the buck to defenders under pressure - all things that LJ has conclusively proved unable to do. There is no doubt about who the more effective player is.

All that said there is no reason whatsoever to boo LJ or any other city player. I suspect the boos were more for not bringing on Akinde than they were for LJ in particular, it seemed a very strange choice at the time.

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All that said there is no reason whatsoever to boo LJ or any other city player. I suspect the boos were more for not bringing on Akinde than they were for LJ in particular, it seemed a very strange choice at the time.

Hmm, I think that's an easy excuse for those who were booing to hide behind (not that I'm suggesting you were, by the way).

Do people seriously think Gavin Williams would have been booed?

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Funny that.

"losers" you say, yet the 6 or 7 of us there, Who incidently had NOTHING to do with the booing(thread started by a back rower), are the ONLY fans in the ENTIRE B block who even TRY to get behind the team...

The B block is a pathetic one now. one that used to be passionate and loud is now one that is dead, decrepid and negative. the only time during the match that ANYONE in the B block sang last night was just after the goal. In anyones book that is pathetic, embarrasing and somewhat scary... if our "fans" cannot create a positive atmosphere with the rest of the ground when we put on a good performance like that, what hope do we have when we play badly and need the fans to pick the players up???

The only song apt enough for the B block nowadays is "silent night"

:fastasleep:

But lets not get our facts right about us at the back hey?

In fairness Blocks A and B of the Dolman always look pretty decent from were i am in the EE, ok maybe the noise that is generated is not as constant as the EE but that part of the ground certainly seems to be the next best thing to atmoshphere other than the East End.. Must just be me that thinks that then..

As for the Lee Johnson boo's it seemed to be mainly the middle to blocks of the Dolman that i could hear the loudest... To be honest as others have said many peopleseemed to be grumbling at the fact Akinde was not brought on, i certainly found it strange but again as others have pointed out if Akinde was brought on it probably would have stayed at 0-0.

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The striker was on for 5 mins before injured, so why not a straight swap for Akinde.

I've not read the rest of this thread 'cause i'm lazy... so i might be repeating people with this post.

Johnson was warming up and about to come on when Velicka was injured, i guess in that situation its a choice for GJ whether to stick with the player he was about to bring on or not.

For what its worth, i agree though, i thought the game was crying out for someone like Akinde to hold up the ball between Haynes and Maynard. With hindsight, maybe GJ did make the right call. :winner_third_h4h:

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Hmm, I think that's an easy excuse for those who were booing to hide behind (not that I'm suggesting you were, by the way).

Do people seriously think Gavin Williams would have been booed?

Maybe, dunno - no opportunity to find out though as he wasn't on the bench (why? he's more likely to change a game than some).

There weren't many boos anyway, there were a lot of people mystified as to how LJ is a good replacement for an injured centre forward particularly with Akinde on the bench. I think they'd have been just as confused by Williams coming on.

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As alredy said we were losing out in midfield, we had plenty up front. It was'nt the substitution GJ was looking to make. LJ looked set to come on but not for the Big Man. No matter who GJ was going to take off to put Lee on the response would predictably have been the same. Surely it should be about supporting the team whoever they may be.

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As far as im concerned,who ever wears the red shirt should get supported.Although i didnt hear anything in the east end apart from support for him.Would also say that when he came on,he changed the game for us.For the 1st 20-25 mins of the 2nd half we couldnt get hold of the ball.But as soon as LJ came on,we got back on the ball and kept it.I dont think this was a coinsidence either.He and Hartley looked very good together,linking up and keeping the ball.IMO he is and always has been a decent member of our squad,no matter who his dad is.

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Definitly a good deal of booing when LJ came on from the Ateyo. I sit in block D and it was embarrasing to here this. There is also some where behind the walkway nearer the back of the stand I think where there really is a moronic LJ hater. Every game Lee played last season he was the recipient of some foul mouthed tirades from this idiot. So as soon as DL announced LJ coming on he started. It went something like this. ( F'ing hell Johnson your a F'ing W'er what a waste of time that F'ing pathetic Johnson get him off). But this happens every time LJ gets on the park. He had'nt even kicked a ball. I really do think that the stewards should actually be doing something about this sort of unnesacery abuse.

Yep - think I know exactly where this idiot is.. Atyeo, Block D, Row O or P... he has an obsessive hatred of LJ. Complete idiot. He's moaned all the way through the goodtimes - promotion season, play-offs, consolidation last season.. but he just loves it when we lose so he can have an even bigger moan. wish he'd lose his season card.

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To be fair, a big part of it was that it was a midfielder being brought on for a forward. But as most fans seem to be, they saw it as all doom and gloom and didn't look at the picture. GJ brought a midfielder on for the very situation that if we'd scored early (which we did) we would've had to defend with about 5 forwards for the last 20 mins. Brilliant sub in my opinion. Obviously the fact that a fraction of our 'fans' just don't like Lee Johnson for whatever reason contributed to the negative feeling about the substitution. A bloke a few rows in front of me even said "I'm taking my season ticket back this is ******g stupid!" :doh:

I wish that bloke would take his season ticket back! People are intitled to their opinions but I think negative comments should be kept to forums etc rather than pitch side. The last thing we need is any of our players feeling under confident etc. After what has recently happened we should all be behind the manager and players. :city:

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Funny that.

"losers" you say, yet the 6 or 7 of us there, Who incidently had NOTHING to do with the booing(thread started by a back rower), are the ONLY fans in the ENTIRE B block who even TRY to get behind the team...

The B block is a pathetic one now. one that used to be passionate and loud is now one that is dead, decrepid and negative. the only time during the match that ANYONE in the B block sang last night was just after the goal. In anyones book that is pathetic, embarrasing and somewhat scary... if our "fans" cannot create a positive atmosphere with the rest of the ground when we put on a good performance like that, what hope do we have when we play badly and need the fans to pick the players up???

The only song apt enough for the B block nowadays is "silent night"

:fastasleep:

But lets not get our facts right about us at the back hey?

Steady on.....that post has got a touch of the Warnocks about it!

Yes there was, booing, yes definately out of order, yes I sit in the B Block, NO I didn't and wouldn't Boo, Yes I did sing and so did a lot of fans around me and it wasn't just after the goal. Several renditions of C'mon you Reds and C'mon City C'mon started from where I was sitting when City had their back aginst it....not in the East End Class I grant you.

As for Lee Johnson, he made a excellant contibution for the goal and some good inter play with Hartley on occassion. The present situation is ideal for him to prove his worth and I hope he does, the competition is good for the team and thats the most important thing. I still think he needs minders and Hartly and Elliott can provide him with that.

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Guest MaloneFM

Hmmm...now...booing....well on the old Heineken crate in the gantry last night all I could pick up was a kind of collective 'uh?' It wasn't a like for like substitution but it did seem to stem the tide swamping the midfield.

Some won't be happy and some will boo and you pays your money and all that. I suppose in their defence and as it appears I have become a conduit for Lee Johnson did this and that stories (some of which are fake moon landing nuts and are as genuine as a Warnock handshake) it seems overall he has done little to endear himself to his team mates in general especially our want away goalkeeper.

The general opinion away from the nepotism is that he isn't good enough for this level anymore and I tend to side with that. Last nights performance was a very good one and he did set up the goal with a clinical pass.

But booing makes my top set rattle too much.

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Hmmm...now...booing....well on the old Heineken crate in the gantry last night all I could pick up was a kind of collective 'uh?' It wasn't a like for like substitution but it did seem to stem the tide swamping the midfield.

Some won't be happy and some will boo and you pays your money and all that. I suppose in their defence and as it appears I have become a conduit for Lee Johnson did this and that stories (some of which are fake moon landing nuts and are as genuine as a Warnock handshake) it seems overall he has done little to endear himself to his team mates in general especially our want away goalkeeper.

The general opinion away from the nepotism is that he isn't good enough for this level anymore and I tend to side with that. Last nights performance was a very good one and he did set up the goal with a clinical pass.

But booing makes my top set rattle too much.

I agree, He plays for Bristol City, we support Bristol City, He hasn't even played this season! How could he have done anything wrong!?

P.S. Malone, your sig needs updating. If you don't hurry colin might try steal the points saying we are leaving them for him as his team were 'cheated' and wer a 'disgrace' and they 'worked their socks off' and if it 'happened at the other end their would be a riot' and 'their should be pillows at the behind the goal' and he is '60 years old' and he has a 'transfer embargo' ;)

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DaveL and the club have a new initiative to sort out annoying berks like that as it does ruin the game for a lot of people ;

http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/TakingTheMic/0,...1761046,00.html

It's in there about half way down the page.

I can imagine the first user of this service will be a S Jordon from Croydon, London, seat Directors box. :noexpression:

I think people will have to carefull though this I would guess it is for anti scocial behaviour, rascist chanting etc, and just becuase you don't like the guy next to you or his /her opinions on the beautiful game shouldn't give free licence to get one over so to speak...could be interesting.

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Steady on.....that post has got a touch of the Warnocks about it!

Yes there was, booing, yes definately out of order, yes I sit in the B Block, NO I didn't and wouldn't Boo, Yes I did sing and so did a lot of fans around me and it wasn't just after the goal. Several renditions of C'mon you Reds and C'mon City C'mon started from where I was sitting when City had their back aginst it....not in the East End Class I grant you.

As for Lee Johnson, he made a excellant contibution for the goal and some good inter play with Hartley on occassion. The present situation is ideal for him to prove his worth and I hope he does, the competition is good for the team and thats the most important thing. I still think he needs minders and Hartly and Elliott can provide him with that.

I don't think i've quite got my point across properly...

When my dad was bringing me up watching City we moved about the stadium week in week out in search of the ideal place, we sat in the Eastend when it was the kiddy section, we sat in the williams for the view a lack of swearing when i was a little bit older, and then we had a brief stint in the atyeo (which was dreadful for both atmosphere and view)

We finally lumbered up in the dolman block B because at the time it was one of the best places to sit for a sing song :)

I suppose that is what i am comparing it to, as back then we would be much like today's eastend, chants wouldn't peter out after three half hearted "red army"'s, they would be sustained and loud.

Out of interest how long have you been sitting in your seat? as in the last 3 seasons there has been a very distinct drop in people joining in when we try start a real chant (c'mon you reds said twice doesn't count as singing, it's kinda annoying that everyone can say it twice or so, but never long enough to get a proper rendition going)

I'm sure you can hear some of the guys at the back trying their hardest to start a song every 10 minutes or so, only to be ignored and not backed? I remember the first time i tried to start a song away at gillingham... nobody joined in and i felt like shit, it's quite daunting doing infront of so many people! But Paul (the bloody loud one) does it week in week out to no avail! thats why i think of where we sit as a morgue, because people try really hard to create a much more positive atmosphere in there like the good old days, but are ignored and blanked. I understand singing isnt everyones cup of tea, but the idea of getting behind the team can't be SO unpopular that nobody can bring themselves to sing a real chant once in a while as opposed to a drone of c'mon you reds can it?

I know plenty will now say "if its such a problem move to the east end, blah blah" but the view there is dreadful, I love where i sit and the few guys around me, i guess it's wishful thinking for the whole of city's notoriously negative support to act in a way similar to the east end... maybe oneday eh?

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I can imagine the first user of this service will be a S Jordon from Croydon, London, seat Directors box. :noexpression:

I think people will have to carefull though this I would guess it is for anti scocial behaviour, rascist chanting etc, and just becuase you don't like the guy next to you or his /her opinions on the beautiful game shouldn't give free licence to get one over so to speak...could be interesting.

I doubt they'll eject anyone on the grounds of a text.

It will merely alert them to where something is potentially happening and they'll monitor it first before moving in, if necessary, I'd have thought.

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I don't think i've quite got my point across properly...

When my dad was bringing me up watching City we moved about the stadium week in week out in search of the ideal place, we sat in the Eastend when it was the kiddy section, we sat in the williams for the view a lack of swearing when i was a little bit older, and then we had a brief stint in the atyeo (which was dreadful for both atmosphere and view)

We finally lumbered up in the dolman block B because at the time it was one of the best places to sit for a sing song :)

I suppose that is what i am comparing it to, as back then we would be much like today's eastend, chants wouldn't peter out after three half hearted "red army"'s, they would be sustained and loud.

Out of interest how long have you been sitting in your seat? as in the last 3 seasons there has been a very distinct drop in people joining in when we try start a real chant (c'mon you reds said twice doesn't count as singing, it's kinda annoying that everyone can say it twice or so, but never long enough to get a proper rendition going)

I'm sure you can hear some of the guys at the back trying their hardest to start a song every 10 minutes or so, only to be ignored and not backed? I remember the first time i tried to start a song away at gillingham... nobody joined in and i felt like shit, it's quite daunting doing infront of so many people! But Paul (the bloody loud one) does it week in week out to no avail! thats why i think of where we sit as a morgue, because people try really hard to create a much more positive atmosphere in there like the good old days, but are ignored and blanked. I understand singing isnt everyones cup of tea, but the idea of getting behind the team can't be SO unpopular that nobody can bring themselves to sing a real chant once in a while as opposed to a drone of c'mon you reds can it?

I know plenty will now say "if its such a problem move to the east end, blah blah" but the view there is dreadful, I love where i sit and the few guys around me, i guess it's wishful thinking for the whole of city's notoriously negative support to act in a way similar to the east end... maybe oneday eh?

I'm been in my current seat for the last 12 + years. And went between the East End and the Dolman for years before that.

Fair play for giving it a go tho mate, keep at it, I do...some you win some you lose. I rember being in the away end at Twerton when we lost the 3-0 Champinionship decider. Tried to start a chant of "We'll support you evermore". Understandably it went down like the good old lead balloon! Didn't feel the best but there you go.

The B Block has changed over the years its true, but that has a lot to do with the psoitioning of the away fans at the gate and the way football has changed. Back in the day the B Block was a hostile and intimidating place, I remember that it must have only been my old man and I that were left in there after the pitch invasion against Sheff Utd. Also games against Wolves, Cardiff, Millwall and Pompey immediately spring to mind.

Another memory, I remeber Brimingham were in town, made a hell of noise in the open end. Five to three the B Block piped up, the Brummies were instantly silenced by the noise to their left. Taylor went on to score the winner with an overhead kick. HAPPY DAYS.

It may never go back to those days, in some ways thats probably a good thing but as I said before keep at it, there is a group of us half way down that will join in :englandsmile4wf:

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The fact that GJ is picking a better player in Paul Hartley over Lee Johnson is good enough for me. But I actually felt that LJ was the ideal player to come on last night and should have been on before Velicka. Why? Because we had lost our composure in the face of a QPR onslaught and actually needed a player who could run around and pass the ball ten yards to a red shirt in any direction at that time. Alongside Hartley he managed to take some steam out of the game when we were creaking a little bit. Others like McCombe, Nyatanga, McAllister and Elliott were just panicing and banging the ball anywhere.

However, let's not get too excited and somehow pretend that Johnson played a magic pass to Maynard for the goal. He actually played a decent ball to Clarkson who still had a bit to do to get it to Maynard. Johnson therefore contributed to the goal - he didn't create it on his own as some are trying to make out.

As for the main thrust of the original post there were a MINORITY of boo's greeting LJ's arrival and, given the events of the last few days, I find it amazing that some people still cannot find it within themselves to stick together as a club and rather selflishly have to express their own gripe with the club. They couldn't even let it ride for a few weeks in the face of a national media onslaught against our club. Whatever your feelings on Lee Johnson that counts as pretty "$h1t" support in my book. LJ is now a squad player rather than an automatic pick who will have to earn a place alongside or over quality players like Paul Hartley. That is a situation that many have wanted for a couple of seasons and which we now have. So why boo the lad when he is brought on to do a job?

But we shouldn't let the actions of 50-100 of these selfish people ruin what was a great night for the football club - a turning point I feel because it is clear to me that GJ is now taking us in a direction that involves attacking football played on the deck.

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The fact that GJ is picking a better player in Paul Hartley over Lee Johnson is good enough for me. But I actually felt that LJ was the ideal player to come on last night and should have been on before Velicka. Why? Because we had lost our composure in the face of a QPR onslaught and actually needed a player who could run around and pass the ball ten yards to a red shirt in any direction at that time. Alongside Hartley he managed to take some steam out of the game when we were creaking a little bit. Others like McCombe, Nyatanga, McAllister and Elliott were just panicing and banging the ball anywhere.

However, let's not get too excited and somehow pretend that Johnson played a magic pass to Maynard for the goal. He actually placed a decent ball to Clarkson who still had a bit to do to get it to Maynard. Johnson therefore contributed to the goal - he didn't create it on his own as some are trying to make out.

As for the main thrust of the original post there were a MINORITY of boo's greeting LJ's arrival and, given the events of the last few days, I find it amazing that some people still cannot find it within themselves to stick together as a club and rather selflishly have to express their own gripe with the club. They couldn't even let it ride for a few weeks in the face of a national media onslaught against our club. Whatever your feelings on Lee Johnson that counts as pretty "$h1t" support in my book. LJ is now a squad player rather than an automatic pick who will have to earn a place alongside or over quality players like Paul Hartley. That is a situation that many have wanted for a couple of seasons and which we now have. So why boo the lad when he is brought on to do a job?

But we shouldn't let the actions of 50-100 of these selfish people ruin what was a great night for the football club - a turning point I feel because it is clear to me that GJ is now taking us in a direction that involves attacking football played on the deck.

A lot of sense in that post.

It has to be what is best for the squad and every player has to earn the right. I certianly feel that the transfer activity has been very good and the teams picked thus far also. I think he we can see that we are lucky to have signed Hartley, that is one club we havn't had in the bag.

The 2nd half at Preston and 1st half v QPR are certianly encouraging.

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:mf_sleep:

Significant booing at the back of Dolman D. Shameful. Delighted for Lee that he set up the goal. We are stronger with Hartley, but Lee will continue to play a valuable part in this already thrilling season. Well done Lee.

I sit near the back of Block D and heard some booing but didn't realise it came from nearby. I'm certainly in the "he's not good enough to be an ever-present" camp, but can't understand why anyone would boo him coming on as a sub.

I was surprised he was the player brought on, but he certainly played well (as he often does when he has two other central midfielders alongside him) and on reflection I think the fact that he was the sub demonstrates something very positive about the start of this season: we are changing formations during games, and the players are coping really well. From 5-3-2 to 4-4-2 to 4-3-3, we are able to move to plan B and Plan C, then back to Plan A. That says a lot for the quality of the players we've got and the coaching/training they're getting. And I don't think we had that strength last season.

For whatever reason (and the midfield was definitely less effective after half time than it had been in the first half, which might be a clue) GJ was able to change the shape of the team when he brought on LJ, and it improved things.

It promises to be a good season!

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