Ok Expectation!

[leobcfc1]

I thought the saves he made had more to do with it than anything!! You don't get MOTM just for standing there. At least we are in total agreement on the standard of the football though!!

Today I thought that Evander was perhaps a little bit more likely to make something happen with one through ball that showed his touch of class when given the chance to roam behind the front two. I'm sure the difference between the teams was that City didn't have any kind of presence up top to compensate for the long balls with McAllister being the main culprit. I'd like to think that Gerken will improve however, at 24 it seems unlikely that he will cut out the habit of punching when he should have been able to catch the ball comfortably on several occasions during the match.

[Paul Cheesey]

Well said!!!!

I am sick and tired of hearing all the negative crap. The problem is that we over-achieved massively in our first season in the championship and in doing that created a rod for our own back. If you had told people when we were on the bottom of league one that in 3 years we would be an established top half of the table championship side they would have chuffed to f@#k.

We have to get real here, the teams around us have MILLIONS more money pumped into them and the very fact that we can hold our own in this division a solely down to the fact that we have a great manager and a forward thinking sensible chairman.

I would love to see the balance sheet of all the other teams in this division, most others teams have borrowed millions to get to where they are, Cardiff for example are totally in the shit and where are they compared to us, 3 points ahead!

Half the teams ahead of us are ex-premier league and the very fact that we are so close to them in our league position and upset because we lose to them is incredible when you consider how little our whole squad is worth.

I think it is time some people started to get real and realise how far we have come, if we get behind Gary and the players maybe we can add to the team spirit and help motivate the whole club, instead of bitching and complaining which will only puts added pressure on everyone making the situation worse.

If we want to get this club up into the Premier League in a good financial and sustainable state we need lots and lots of patience. Come on, lets get behind the best manager and chairman this club has had for decades!!

[Guest]

Agreed. We have to muddle through to the window and whilst this was a situation that may have been avoided it is too late to cry over spilt milk. However, if Johnson doesn't sort out this bit of mess we are in I would be severely p1$$ed off. It would be far worse if he felt that performances like today were the way forward!!

Not gonna happen we have no money, unless someone is off loaded; if a winger is brought in we still have no target man as Adebola was given away.

['Orns]

I agree he should command the defence better and rule the area considering his size. Basso was often crititized for this but Gerken is no better.

To big for being mobile I guess.

Is Gerken that big? I'm 6'3, and I'm pretty certain Gerken is shorter than me, as I was surprised to read that, he looks bigger.

I could be wrong though.....!

[SimplyRed]

These are the 24 teams in our div

Newcastle (Prem quality players in depth)

West Brom (Prem quality players in depth)

Nottm Forest (Lots of investment in the summer off the back of being a big club with lots of support)

Leicester (Prem quality players pissed all over div1 last season, no idea how they managed to get relegated in the first place)

Cardiff (Prem quality players and lots of money invested over many years)

Middlesbrough (Prem quality players in depth)

Swansea (Lots of investment over many years)

Blackpool (As much as you love to hate him olly is a good manager and motivator)

QPR (Prem quality players and lots and lots of money pumped into them)

Sheff Utd (Prem quality players in depth)

Bristol City (Solid manager, good squad but still building imho)

Watford (Prem quality players although not as strong as before)

Crystal Palace (Chopper for a manager)

Preston (Quality players in depth, and should do well)

Barnsley (Some quality players and lots of investment)

Doncaster (We nicked Bournemouth FC's squad and have a good manager)

Derby (Prem quality players in depth)

Reading (Prem quality players in depth)

Coventry (They got a winger that we keep raving about but hes not helping fix all their ills)

Sheff Wed (Prem quality players, yet despite this perpetually underachieved)

S****horpe (Good players did well last season)

Ipswich (Prem quality players brought in with a ridiculously over rated manager)

Plymouth (Quality players)

Peterborough (One of the best managers going but still struggling)

I think when you look at the quality in our div, the fact that GJ has had a big shake up in the summer, our Brazilian chopper has unsettled some players and that we have had a ridiculous number of injuries in the start of the season with illness and we have lost one of our best players in brad, were about hitting par with what I would expect. I however do expect after January for us to start moving upwards and not backwards. But all in all GJ is the best manager we have had for decades! so lets stop all the negative crap I keep seeing on here and when my leg is sorted I'll want to see you at AG! not on here 3pm to 5pm wittering negative chuff thanks

I get absolutely fed up the the old "GJ is the best manager we've had in decades" line to counter valid criticism every time we get a poor result.

Football, like it or not, is a results-oriented game. If we're not winning and we're not playing well, people are going to vent their spleen and voice an opinion about what is going wrong.

When will you stop staying that "GJ is the best manager we've had in decades"? When we finally get relegated back to League One?

People (including myself) are getting fed up with watching dull, uninspiring performance that, in the opinion of many, is down to Johnson's team selection, tactics and substitutions. If there are many more people that feel as I do, Johnson does not have much time left to put this right.

[Ian M]

Given that a lot of success in football these days bears a directly proportional relationship to that club's budget I base my own expectations on the average attendances of whichever division we are in. When in L1 we were always at the top so I expected a challenge for automatic promotion (and was often disappointed!).

I've added below a copy of this season's attendances and when you make allowances for investment by owners (ie move the likes of QPR and to a degree ourselves) we are roundabout where I'd "expect" us to be. Like everyone else I "hoped" we would be higher and with the gap between ourselves and 6th being just 2 points I still "hope" that will be the case.

This says nothing about playing style although I would add that it must be easier for those with a bigger footballing budget to play more attractive football as it allows them to bring in the better footballers.

I think another factor in the problem is that near enough ever since we got relegated at the turn of the century under Lennartsson we have been a top half team challenging for the play-offs or automatic promotion, no matter which division we were in. This suggests that we have spent 10 years getting used to winning lots of home games. That we now draw/lose as many as we win goes against what we have come to expect as "normal".

1 Newcastle United (1) 41749

2 Derby County (17) 28893

3 Sheffield United (10) 26263

4 Leicester City (4) 24436

5 Nottingham Forest (3) 23367

6 Sheffield Wednesday (20) 22012

7 West Bromwich Albion (2) 21677

8 Ipswich Town (22) 21037

9 Middlesbrough (6) 20766

10 Cardiff City (5) 20664

11 Coventry City (19) 17397

12 Reading (18) 17225

13 Swansea City (7) 15057

14 Crystal Palace (13) 14798

15 Bristol City (11) 14424

16 Watford (12) 13770

17 Queens Park Rangers (9) 13474

18 Preston North End (14) 12780

19 Barnsley (15) 11971

20 Plymouth Argyle (23) 10726

21 Doncaster Rovers (16) 10219

22 Peterborough United (24) 9101

23 Blackpool (8) 8287

24 Scunthorpe United (21) 7048

[Tunley Legend]

Given that a lot of success in football these days bears a directly proportional relationship to that club's budget I base my own expectations on the average attendances of whichever division we are in. When in L1 we were always at the top so I expected a challenge for automatic promotion (and was often disappointed!).

I've added below a copy of this season's attendances and when you make allowances for investment by owners (ie move the likes of QPR and to a degree ourselves) we are roundabout where I'd "expect" us to be. Like everyone else I "hoped" we would be higher and with the gap between ourselves and 6th being just 2 points I still "hope" that will be the case.

This says nothing about playing style although I would add that it must be easier for those with a bigger footballing budget to play more attractive football as it allows them to bring in the better footballers.

I think another factor in the problem is that near enough ever since we got relegated at the turn of the century under Lennartsson we have been a top half team challenging for the play-offs or automatic promotion, no matter which division we were in. This suggests that we have spent 10 years getting used to winning lots of home games. That we now draw/lose as many as we win goes against what we have come to expect as "normal".

1 Newcastle United (1) 41749

2 Derby County (17) 28893

3 Sheffield United (10) 26263

4 Leicester City (4) 24436

5 Nottingham Forest (3) 23367

6 Sheffield Wednesday (20) 22012

7 West Bromwich Albion (2) 21677

8 Ipswich Town (22) 21037

9 Middlesbrough (6) 20766

10 Cardiff City (5) 20664

11 Coventry City (19) 17397

12 Reading (18) 17225

13 Swansea City (7) 15057

14 Crystal Palace (13) 14798

15 Bristol City (11) 14424

16 Watford (12) 13770

17 Queens Park Rangers (9) 13474

18 Preston North End (14) 12780

19 Barnsley (15) 11971

20 Plymouth Argyle (23) 10726

21 Doncaster Rovers (16) 10219

22 Peterborough United (24) 9101

23 Blackpool (8) 8287

24 S****horpe United (21) 7048

I'm afraid that Doncaster, QPR (has Briatore spent that much more money than Lansdown?) and even Blackpool under Hollowhead blow that particular argument clean out of the water.

[SimplyRed]

This says nothing about playing style although I would add that it must be easier for those with a bigger footballing budget to play more attractive football as it allows them to bring in the better footballers.

Not an accurate yardstick, IMO.

I think everyone agrees we have a reasonable squad for this level - we are simply underachieving, and that is down to the manager.

Nobody is suggesting we should be challenging for promotion, but simply we need to be more consistent and put in some performances that match the quality of the playing staff. Personally, I would be happy to finish mid-table. Currently, I can't see it happening.

[windmillhillred]

Not an accurate yardstick, IMO.

I think everyone agrees we have a reasonable squad for this level - we are simply underachieving, and that is down to the manager.

Nobody is suggesting we should be challenging for promotion, but simply we need to be more consistent and put in some performances that match the quality of the playing staff. Personally, I would be happy to finish mid-table. Currently, I can't see it happening.

What are you talking about? Read what you've posted and think again.

You would be happy to finish mid-table - we are mid table and two points off the play offs. Every team will have one or two blips throughout the season.

[Guest]

What are you talking about? Read what you've posted and think again.

You would be happy to finish mid-table - we are mid table and two points off the play offs. Every team will have one or two blips throughout the season.

Oh come on, not the old play off straw (grasping at) the real view is; 11points and 24goals short of auto up at this moment and 10 points away from certain relegation.

Blips what are they? injurys, bad ref decisions, players not performing, bad luck or just poor managment decisions, its the last one really aint it

The transfer window is now hoped by many to improve things some real tricky games to come before that straw comes along.

[SimplyRed]

What are you talking about? Read what you've posted and think again.

You would be happy to finish mid-table - we are mid table and two points off the play offs. Every team will have one or two blips throughout the season.

I'm merely stating that our play at present is relegation form - we need to improve drastically.

[Nibor]

Given that a lot of success in football these days bears a directly proportional relationship to that club's budget I base my own expectations on the average attendances of whichever division we are in.

Which would be perfectly reasonable were it not clear from our £6.5m loss that we are investing waaaaaaay beyond our income.

Rank them by annual wage bill and transfer spend and you'll find us in the top 8 with mostly parachute payment clubs above us.