Markman Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Just been listening to 6 0 6 - Newcastle Fan said how bad this Division is. Sad but True. Even Alan Green (who I don't normally agree with) said - it is a sad truth that this is a poor Division. We are playing poorly - we struggle to beat anyone - even the Team's at the bottom of a Poor Division. Week on Week GJ makes some stupid decisions - sticking with this Diamond Formation, building a team that helps the selection of players who are not really good enough. Week after week he says he is going to work things out - and week after week it is the same old lump it up field to two small strikers. It is only GJs fault we have no left winger, and that he loaned out a right back so we play a midfielder there, and that Sno plays wide out on the left - time after time he gets it wrong (and again even dear old Twenystone said as much) Even had we nicked a win - it would be papering over the cracks as it was at the end of last season. And yet - if anyone comes on here and has a perfectly reasonable moan we get accused of letting the team down, we should get behind the team - but, some of you, by continuing to stick by and support duff decisions you are making things worse, you are the mischievous ones, the ones that convince GJ he is getting it right and so he does little or nothing to rectify anything. And, No, I don't rant and moan during the Game because I do support City - but I can see it is going wrong as can many - and if we don't speak out things will get worse not better - I do worry that GJ has reached a point where he is struggling to take us any further forward - hope I am wrong cos he ain't going to go anywhere soon - but if the fans can make him think again about selection and formation that is a good thing - better than just showing blind loyalty and supporting everything he does even when it is clearly wrong. That will help less than constructive criticism will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunley Legend Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Get your tin hat out mate. I'm with you in the trenches!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 top post markman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DanC Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Quality post, Summed up everything perfectly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Get your tin hat out mate. I'm with you in the trenches!!! So am i, even though the last few home games have been very entertaining ( getting a foot in both camps ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Just been listening to 6 0 6 - Newcastle Fan said how bad this Division is. Sad but True. Even Alan Green (who I don't normally agree with) said - it is a sad truth that this is a poor Division. We are playing poorly - we struggle to beat anyone - even the Team's at the bottom of a Poor Division. Week on Week GJ makes some stupid decisions - sticking with this Diamond Formation, building a team that helps the selection of players who are not really good enough. Week after week he says he is going to work things out - and week after week it is the same old lump it up field to two small strikers. It is only GJs fault we have no left winger, and that he loaned out a right back so we play a midfielder there, and that Sno plays wide out on the left - time after time he gets it wrong (and again even dear old Twenystone said as much) Even had we nicked a win - it would be papering over the cracks as it was at the end of last season. And yet - if anyone comes on here and has a perfectly reasonable moan we get accused of letting the team down, we should get behind the team - but, some of you, by continuing to stick by and support duff decisions you are making things worse, you are the mischievous ones, the ones that convince GJ he is getting it right and so he does little or nothing to rectify anything. And, No, I don't rant and moan during the Game because I do support City - but I can see it is going wrong as can many - and if we don't speak out things will get worse not better - I do worry that GJ has reached a point where he is struggling to take us any further forward - hope I am wrong cos he ain't going to go anywhere soon - but if the fans can make him think again about selection and formation that is a good thing - better than just showing blind loyalty and supporting everything he does even when it is clearly wrong. That will help less than constructive criticism will. There are always "excuses" and straws to be grasped at, the latest being the transfer window not gonna happen we have no money; truth is we are far from ready for any further step up. By the end of Jan we will be battling at the wrong end of the table if things dont change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonwheeler Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 100% behind you Markman, im also in those trenches with you mate - but for the first time ever I dont see a lot of incoming (Does that not tell us all something???) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DanC Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 There are always "excuses" and straws to be grasped at, the latest being the transfer window not gonna happen we have no money; truth is we are far from ready for any further step up. By the end of Jan we will be battling at the wrong end of the table if things dont change.In Jan we will be told we will have to wait until later on in the window as teams want to hang on to there players for longer, Prices are over inflated in January and the one player we have scouted for ages and were sure of getting has decided with 5 mins left of the window to join someone else and finally Johnson will refuse to use the loan market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 In Jan we will be told we will have to wait until later on in the window as teams want to hang on to there players for longer, Prices are over inflated in January and the one player we have scouted for ages and were sure of getting has decided with 5 mins left of the window to join someone else and finally Johnson will refuse to use the loan market. Agree, soon a few more will be looking behind us; as I believe we have an incredibly hard 2months ahead and points will be few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindjuicer Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 and week after week it is the same old lump it up field to two small strikers. You think GJ has trained them to do this? BTW we only started doing this in the last 10 mins. It is only GJs fault we have no left winger, and that he loaned out a right back so we play a midfielder there, and that Sno plays wide out on the left - time after time he gets it wrong (and again even dear old Twenystone said as much) Seemed to me that McIndoe didn't want to play for us any more. Who else were we going to sign? Skuse didn't let much past him today. He impresses me more as a RB than a CM. Also Carey/Wilson can play RB. I'm more concerned with lack of coverage at LB, especially when McAllister went down today. And why shouldn't Sno play inside left? His passing and stamina aren't good enough atm to play in the middle. Does it not occur to you that criticising lack of width and playing Sno out wide in the same sentence is impressively self-contradictory? We have problems yes but I would suspect that GJ has a better grasp on what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barman Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Absolutely spot on Markman. Today was the final straw for me. I have always backed GJ to the hilt despite worries about his tactics and team selection but that ends now. Yet again today we had no width and no shape - just who was supposed to be playing on the right in the first half cos from what I could see Elliot and Johnson were both playing next to the excellent Hartley in the middle? He hauls off Sno even though he'd had a good game playing completely out of position (although to be fair, we don't have a single player who can play left midfield in the squad - Trundle anyone?), he has an in-form striker in Maynard who is having the form knocked out of him because he gets no service AT ALL, a midfielder at right back, two small centre forwards who keep having to try and win the ball in the air against 6ft+ centre backs (one of who would be much better playing wide right), and I could go on.... I have had enough. Gary Johnson has done a great job lifting our club out of the mire that was League 1 and establishing us as a Championship club, but now we are stagnating and going backwards. The problems are plain to see - if Johnson keeps his blinkers on and doesn't address them then HE MUST GO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonwheeler Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 STILL no sound of incoming from the Happy Clapper, Johnson is God and can do no wrong brigade??? Really thought I would hear the sirens sounding by now over BS3 - Surely they CANNOT have finally seen the light and come to their senses that he has taken us as far as he can BUT sadly spent a lot of SL's millions in trying to make a team of central midfielders into the process. One thing that SERIOUSLY does worry me is that SL stated "if" we didnt get promoted this season (Alright stop laughing) then we would HAVE to unload players to make the wage bill sustainable (Even SL's pockets have a bottom) so "if" Johnson was to do the honourable thing and ride off with a minimum of three years salary (Sponsored by Hargreaves and Lansdown) into the Clevedon sunset, what would the new manager be inheriting? A team of (what was left) high earners with very little creativity or left footed players and a defence which lets face it, is average (Boom boom sit down and stay glued to that bench). Not a very appealing prospect to any candidate thinking of throwing in their CV unless their name is IainDowie and he applies for ANY job!!!! VERY VERY VERY worrying times ahead im afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 You think GJ has trained them to do this? BTW we only started doing this in the last 10 mins. Seemed to me that McIndoe didn't want to play for us any more. Who else were we going to sign? Skuse didn't let much past him today. He impresses me more as a RB than a CM. Also Carey/Wilson can play RB. I'm more concerned with lack of coverage at LB, especially when McAllister went down today. And why shouldn't Sno play inside left? His passing and stamina aren't good enough atm to play in the middle. Does it not occur to you that criticising lack of width and playing Sno out wide in the same sentence is impressively self-contradictory? We have problems yes but I would suspect that GJ has a better grasp on what they are. Sno has played his whole career as a defensive central midfield player. So why did GJ sign him and play him as a left sided player, it does not make sense, why not sign a proper left midfielder and leave Sno at Ajax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Personally, I think the paper is getting thinner, and the cracks wider. Lack of balance, players out of position, young players never considered, too much loyalty to players who are well off the game or not good enough, strange substitutions. And we are really quite dull to watch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenun Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 When Gary compared us to Chelsea, he must have been thinking of the EastEnders character, Chelsea Fox. Pretty in parts, but useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economou Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 STILL no sound of incoming from the Happy Clapper, Johnson is God and can do no wrong brigade??? Really thought I would hear the sirens sounding by now over BS3 - Surely they CANNOT have finally seen the light and come to their senses that he has taken us as far as he can BUT sadly spent a lot of SL's millions in trying to make a team of central midfielders into the process. One thing that SERIOUSLY does worry me is that SL stated "if" we didnt get promoted this season (Alright stop laughing) then we would HAVE to unload players to make the wage bill sustainable (Even SL's pockets have a bottom) so "if" Johnson was to do the honourable thing and ride off with a minimum of three years salary (Sponsored by Hargreaves and Lansdown) into the Clevedon sunset, what would the new manager be inheriting? A team of (what was left) high earners with very little creativity or left footed players and a defence which lets face it, is average (Boom boom sit down and stay glued to that bench). Not a very appealing prospect to any candidate thinking of throwing in their CV unless their name is IainDowie and he applies for ANY job!!!! VERY VERY VERY worrying times ahead im afraid. You seem to take great delight in running the manager & team down. Maybe these 'happy clappers' are just bored responding to your total negativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindjuicer Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Sno has played his whole career as a defensive central midfield player. "During a period on loan to NAC Breda, he was utilised in 9 different field positions. Also, in the Netherlands national under-21 football team, Sno has recently been used as a striker, in lack of an actual striker in the squad." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evander_Sno So why did GJ sign him and play him as a left sided player, it does not make sense, why not sign a proper left midfielder and leave Sno at Ajax. Because he's a great player. We've probably got Sno on the cheap and he's doing an excellent job for us. He's an amazing target man - something we need soooo badly. That's what I presume he won MoM today for because it wasn't his passing/crossing. We didn't support him as well today as vs Sheff U, but I've still never seen him tackled. We really don't need a defensive midfielder - especially with Hartley playing deep. Sno beat his man at least 5x on the wing too - if his passing/crossing had been better, I'm sure we'd have scored. His run through the middle was lovely to watch too and Haynes should have buried it. Why on earth would we play him as a defensive midfielder? And where would Maynard/Haynes get their service from? Sno was signed in the last few hours of the transfer window. If we didn't try to sign a left-sided midfielder then a lot of criticism of GJ is justified. But I'd be absolutely amazed if we didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Why on earth would we play him as a defensive midfielder? And where would Maynard/Haynes get their service from? Well there not getting any real service are they, they WOULD get real service if GJ had signed a couple of proper wide men insead of bringing in Central Midfielders by the dozen!!! The only time that you,me and probably GJ saw Sno play before he came here, was when he played in Central Midfield in the friendly, so its pretty obvious that he impressed him in THAT position. What next, we bring in Kris Commons and play him right back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonwheeler Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Ah, some slight Flak fired by Economu??? Could not believe that Garys followers would lie low all evening. Congrats for still (Like the Iraqi minister for communication) standing up for your beloved leader your devotion is to be admired. Not my negativity my dear friend, just a total sense that the Cockney wide boy has taken my/our team as far as he can and enough is enough. PS - Please feel free to fire as much flak as you want for the rest of the night as im off to bed to dream of times past of the likes of Walshie, Clive Whitehead, Howard Pritchard, true WIDE players and players who entertained NOT like todays defensive dullards. Sweet dreams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Midjuicer - If you look closely you will see Sno dispossessed quite regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 I don't think GJ has taken us as far as he can just yet because he hasn't tried everything, he just needs to grow some balls and go for it...all out attack with width, especially at home. Yes, we will get beat a few times & sometimes hammered (we do now) but we will also win games 2-0, 3-0 & 4-0, if the tactics & personnel are right. We have the best squad we have had in years (minus 1 or 2 wide men & a Shaun Taylorlike CBK) but the players need to be let loose. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJC Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 re 'simonwheeler' If I were in a position to I would reply to you in greater detail. However what really strikes me, ***** me off if you will, is the delight you appear to be taking in our current struggles. No-one thinks Johnson is infalable however some of us have the ability to see the bigger picture. Yes we are currently struggling, and ive stated in the past as well as before kick off today that playing four central midfielders in a four man midfield is ludicrous - a situation entirely of Johnson's making, but the manager has done an absolutely fantastic job since he arrived here and it is only due to his virtually unparalled success that midtable in the Championship is 'there to be shot at.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 as im off to bed to dream of times past of the likes of Walshie, Clive Whitehead, Howard Pritchard, true WIDE players and players who entertained NOT like todays defensive dullards. You forgot Mark Gavin, David Smith & Sir Trevor Tainton.... BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Sno has played his whole career as a defensive central midfield player. So why did GJ sign him and play him as a left sided player, it does not make sense, why not sign a proper left midfielder and leave Sno at Ajax. My sentiments at the time and still are that we sould have offloaded players or we shouldnt have bothered with getting in Sno. It would have made perfect sense if say we sold Williams and Lee J (using those two names purely for argument sake!) then used whatever funds we got from those two going to fund Sno's wages PLUS bringing in that winger that we are crying out for to replace Mcindoe. It was clear that the reason GJ signed Sno was beacuse he really had no intentions to play wingers this season. This has completly consipired against him (as many many fans said it would in the summer) and now he is looking like a prate beacuse he is being forced to play these central midfielders on the wings as we really have no other options. This whole situation is slowly turning me and by the looks of it many others against GJ. This time last year my support for him was without doubt 100%. But now unless he shakes things up and loses the stubborn attitude i think we should serious look at replacing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindjuicer Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 Midjuicer - If you look closely you will see Sno dispossessed quite regularly. Never seen it. Didn't happen today although he was forced to give away the ball once. Passes to the opposition a fair number of times too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 top post markman It was indeed a top post from markman. What a load of rubbish against the 'mighty' relegation zone Shitswich Town and for the £28 casual pay-on-the-dayers I feel really sorry for you - you really did pick the wrong game to watch. The most laughable aspect was Lee Johnson taking Evander Sno's rightful place in centre midfield and then out of position Sno on the left taken off and Johnson left on. WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigcheese Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 then used whatever funds we got from those two going to fund Sno's wages PLUS bringing in that winger that we are crying out for to replace Mcindoe. From what I remember of it people were on McIndoe's back for cutting in all the time, much like Sno today. I'm not saying it's a particularly bad thing to do as long as there is an end product (which there never seemed to be) but I still didnt see why when him and Sproule had pace they had to always cut in. And we had adebola back then. So not sure this replacement is going to be the magic bullet everyone is crying out for if they are not allowed to play to their strengths. Would like to see Haynes using his pace to run at a defence again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted December 5, 2009 Report Share Posted December 5, 2009 My sentiments at the time and still are that we sould have offloaded players or we shouldnt have bothered with getting in Sno. It would have made perfect sense if say we sold Williams and Lee J (using those two names purely for argument sake!) then used whatever funds we got from those two going to fund Sno's wages PLUS bringing in that winger that we are crying out for to replace Mcindoe. It was clear that the reason GJ signed Sno was beacuse he really had no intentions to play wingers this season. This has completly consipired against him (as many many fans said it would in the summer) and now he is looking like a prate beacuse he is being forced to play these central midfielders on the wings as we really have no other options. This whole situation is slowly turning me and by the looks of it many others against GJ. This time last year my support for him was without doubt 100%. But now unless he shakes things up and loses the stubborn attitude i think we should serious look at replacing him. That'll be why he was trying to sign Lee Martin and others then. Gosh, he really is clever this JOhnson chappie - tells everyone that he's trying to sign a winger but really isn't and we all fall for it (except for a sharp few who can see through his wheeze). Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalgaryRed Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Ah, some slight Flak fired by Economu??? Could not believe that Garys followers would lie low all evening. Congrats for still (Like the Iraqi minister for communication) standing up for your beloved leader your devotion is to be admired. Not my negativity my dear friend, just a total sense that the Cockney wide boy has taken my/our team as far as he can and enough is enough. PS - Please feel free to fire as much flak as you want for the rest of the night as im off to bed to dream of times past of the likes of Walshie, Clive Whitehead, Howard Pritchard, true WIDE players and players who entertained NOT like todays defensive dullards. Sweet dreams Time for the said Cockney Wide Boy to take SL's money, go and open a pub, start a pub team with no wingers , and take his son, sundry relatives and remaining happy clappers here. They can respectively be... the star turn in the pub team's midfield, the kit/physio men and the inebriated and gullible regulars at the bar listening to endlessly repeated tales of how the ungrateful fans, the disloyal players ( whom he signed ) and a non-spending Chairman thwarted him from achieving World Domination at Ashton Gate. Wake up everyone - the man has been and is taking everyone for a ride including SL. He's also out of his depth above League 1. The only question in my mind which should delay his inevitable exit ( not the money - the loss of season ticket holders or worse eventual relegation will lose the club more if he stays ) is whom should take over. Admit I don't have that one nailed yet. A thread on that anyone ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednready Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Lets back up a bit. In GJ's first season we used Scott Brown and Wilkshire on the left flank, both scored goals. Wilkshire left and GJ was asked who he would sign as a left winger. I remember being amazed at the time as GJ said " A left winger had not been one of his considerations ". It was as if left midfielders did not exist, were not importent or part of his basic tactics. That same mentality seems to be with him today and as long as it does we will not be a club playing with width. Point two, I have made the comment for 3 seasons that McCombe, B Wilson and LJ do not have the quality to affect a game at this level and should move on. Nothing personal, they are good 90 minute pro's, who turn up and give a good shift for our club. They just do not affect the game, thats all. Point three. At the start of the season I posted saying that GJ & SL were putting a good squad together, spending the cash and looking at a promotion run this season. I said we had the squad and it was down to selections, substitutions and tactics to get us to the end game. In that regard imo GJ has failed. In a nutshell our manager is the cure, the solution or our downfall. I hope he gets it right and on that I have my thoughts, however he's the man getting the cash to steer the ship. Lets hope he can see the light before darkness takes us to the bottom half of the division. It can be done by GJ and I for one want to know how much input does KM have with our selections and tactics, in any event they need to lift their game and maximise the talent they have available. Rednready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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