Play Offs

[gary cornes]

If we would of just stayed up in the first season and done say 10th last year what would we be saying now, get rid of GJ........ I DONT THINK SO ? Any thoughts ?

[Portland Bill]

If we would of just stayed up in the first season and done say 10th last year what would we be saying now, get rid of GJ........ I DONT THINK SO ? Any thoughts ?

We didnt though!!

[CotswoldRed]

Personally I think the debate is primarily about formation, tactics and entertainment, not where we are or have been in the table.

If we address this but still finish mid-table there will be a lot less complaining.

P.S. I'm not saying get rid of GJ, far from it.

[gary cornes]

We didnt though!!

Good point, but dont you agree we expect to much, I feel we all expect to win at home every game agianst teams that are so much more experienced at this level. And if we dont its cause we were crap. Never are we out played by a better team

[gary cornes]

Personally I think the debate is primarily about formation, tactics and entertainment, not where we are or have been in the table.

If we address this but still finish mid-table there will be a lot less complaining.

P.S. I'm not saying get rid of GJ, far from it.

GOOD POST shame there arent more fans like you

[Somerset_Sam]

Good point, but dont you agree we expect to much, I feel we all expect to win at home every game agianst teams that are so much more experienced at this level. And if we dont its cause we were crap. Never are we out played by a better team

At the start of last season the chairman said we are going for automatic promotion, this season Gary has said on numerous occasions that we need to get in the top 6 and stay there, my expectations are set by the people running the club.

[Portland Bill]

Good point, but dont you agree we expect to much, I feel we all expect to win at home every game agianst teams that are so much more experienced at this level. And if we dont its cause we were crap. Never are we out played by a better team

I dont expect to much, all i expect is us to pick the best players in there positions, make use of the WHOLE of the pitch and play what i would call good football with movement.

We are getting outplayed quite often.

[Bris Red]

Personally I think the debate is primarily about formation, tactics and entertainment, not where we are or have been in the table.

If we address this but still finish mid-table there will be a lot less complaining.

P.S. I'm not saying get rid of GJ, far from it.

Agreed, i dont expect us to be in the top two, and i dont expect us to be in the top six either.

What i do expect is for a manger that earns big money per week to play a balanced team and formation and unless we have major injuries, playing players in the positions they play best in (which is clearly not the case at the moment).

[Centenary Gas]

If we would of just stayed up in the first season and done say 10th last year what would we be saying now, get rid of GJ........ I DONT THINK SO ? Any thoughts ?

Since our forum is depressing enough despite being in the top 10, and with all patience leaving football completely (fans constantly talk about eating humble pie and forget it the week later), I thought I would cheer myself up on here...

I remember saying to your fans trying to wind me up at the time that the playoff final would be the best thing possible if you win, and the worst if you lose (which of course they had none of when after you lost claiming it was a financial boost and great experience etc etc). Teams often fair worse after a playoff final defeat and the expectation would always be much higher than the season before or if you had just stayed up.

Football fans are never patient but it is still the way forward. Progress too fast and it ends up hindering you, especially with the huge increase in financial outlay promotion brings these days. Take an extra season or two and the step up is much more manageable. For you the likes of Lee Trundle are off the books and those decent players you have now are your poorer players in the league above. Same applies to Rovers who are only now getting rid of the last league two standard players. It might upset the fans, but the best thing that can happen to Rovers is that Trolls does just enough to keep his job and sends us up in a couple of years. He is well regarded in the game and another promotion could see him snapped up by someone else.

Your fans could also do with remembering that the grass is not always greener.... Johnson may not get everything right but what manager does? Remember Tinnion, Benny? Remember the moans about how defensive Wilson was? Good football maybe, promotion not quite so. Bolton thought they should do better and ended up near the bottom with Megson. Newcastle thought they were better than 5th and ended up in the league below. Oxford decided hoof ball and top 3 wasnt good enough under Atkins and ended up in the Conference. Chelsea fans are moaning about Cech, Ballack and Deco and look where they are. Lee Johnson wouldnt seem so bad next year if you were bottom of the league under a new manager. I remember when Rovers were losing to all the minnows of league two, I dreamed of being a mid table league one side again. Remember that frustration of watching Championship teams ply their trade in the division above you.

Your ground is another reason for you lot to be patience. I remember Sunderland getting their new ground and going up, they fixed their place in the Prem pretty easily. Promotion in the season before your ground opens might just sell it out for the season with the lure of the big guns, and you would probably find staying up a lot easier than now.

Wishing you the worst of luck....

[red panda]

Since our forum is depressing enough despite being in the top 10, and with all patience leaving football completely (fans constantly talk about eating humble pie and forget it the week later), I thought I would cheer myself up on here...

I remember saying to your fans trying to wind me up at the time that the playoff final would be the best thing possible if you win, and the worst if you lose (which of course they had none of when after you lost claiming it was a financial boost and great experience etc etc). Teams often fair worse after a playoff final defeat and the expectation would always be much higher than the season before or if you had just stayed up.

Football fans are never patient but it is still the way forward. Progress too fast and it ends up hindering you, especially with the huge increase in financial outlay promotion brings these days. Take an extra season or two and the step up is much more manageable. For you the likes of Lee Trundle are off the books and those decent players you have now are your poorer players in the league above. Same applies to Rovers who are only now getting rid of the last league two standard players. It might upset the fans, but the best thing that can happen to Rovers is that Trolls does just enough to keep his job and sends us up in a couple of years. He is well regarded in the game and another promotion could see him snapped up by someone else.

Your fans could also do with remembering that the grass is not always greener.... Johnson may not get everything right but what manager does? Remember Tinnion, Benny? Remember the moans about how defensive Wilson was? Good football maybe, promotion not quite so. Bolton thought they should do better and ended up near the bottom with Megson. Newcastle thought they were better than 5th and ended up in the league below. Oxford decided hoof ball and top 3 wasnt good enough under Atkins and ended up in the Conference. Chelsea fans are moaning about Cech, Ballack and Deco and look where they are. Lee Johnson wouldnt seem so bad next year if you were bottom of the league under a new manager. I remember when Rovers were losing to all the minnows of league two, I dreamed of being a mid table league one side again. Remember that frustration of watching Championship teams ply their trade in the division above you.

Your ground is another reason for you lot to be patience. I remember Sunderland getting their new ground and going up, they fixed their place in the Prem pretty easily. Promotion in the season before your ground opens might just sell it out for the season with the lure of the big guns, and you would probably find staying up a lot easier than now.

Wishing you the worst of luck....

Far too reasonable for this forum I'm afraid.

You seen to know a lot about us. Who are these Rovars that you speak of??

[Pezo]

At the start of last season the chairman said we are going for automatic promotion, this season Gary has said on numerous occasions that we need to get in the top 6 and stay there, my expectations are set by the people running the club.

So if they had said bottom 3 for us then you would be chuffed with where we are now, is that what you are saying?

[Pezo]

I dont expect to much, all i expect is us to pick the best players in there positions, make use of the WHOLE of the pitch and play what i would call good football with movement.

We are getting outplayed quite often.

If we played the best players in there positions then we would have to play something like a 5 2 3.

[Pezo]

Since our forum is depressing enough despite being in the top 10, and with all patience leaving football completely (fans constantly talk about eating humble pie and forget it the week later), I thought I would cheer myself up on here...

I remember saying to your fans trying to wind me up at the time that the playoff final would be the best thing possible if you win, and the worst if you lose (which of course they had none of when after you lost claiming it was a financial boost and great experience etc etc). Teams often fair worse after a playoff final defeat and the expectation would always be much higher than the season before or if you had just stayed up.

Football fans are never patient but it is still the way forward. Progress too fast and it ends up hindering you, especially with the huge increase in financial outlay promotion brings these days. Take an extra season or two and the step up is much more manageable. For you the likes of Lee Trundle are off the books and those decent players you have now are your poorer players in the league above. Same applies to Rovers who are only now getting rid of the last league two standard players. It might upset the fans, but the best thing that can happen to Rovers is that Trolls does just enough to keep his job and sends us up in a couple of years. He is well regarded in the game and another promotion could see him snapped up by someone else.

Your fans could also do with remembering that the grass is not always greener.... Johnson may not get everything right but what manager does? Remember Tinnion, Benny? Remember the moans about how defensive Wilson was? Good football maybe, promotion not quite so. Bolton thought they should do better and ended up near the bottom with Megson. Newcastle thought they were better than 5th and ended up in the league below. Oxford decided hoof ball and top 3 wasnt good enough under Atkins and ended up in the Conference. Chelsea fans are moaning about Cech, Ballack and Deco and look where they are. Lee Johnson wouldnt seem so bad next year if you were bottom of the league under a new manager. I remember when Rovers were losing to all the minnows of league two, I dreamed of being a mid table league one side again. Remember that frustration of watching Championship teams ply their trade in the division above you.

Your ground is another reason for you lot to be patience. I remember Sunderland getting their new ground and going up, they fixed their place in the Prem pretty easily. Promotion in the season before your ground opens might just sell it out for the season with the lure of the big guns, and you would probably find staying up a lot easier than now.

Wishing you the worst of luck....

What is the world coming to! that is one of the most sensible posts I have seen on here for weeks and its by a bloody Gash supporter. Since when have they held the moral high ground? anyone hello?

[lager loud]

To answer the question in the title of the thread, rather than the first post....

I think getting to the play off final (and last year's consolidation) did do us some good, in that it has helped us attract some players we might not have persuaded to join us if we'd finished say 15th in each of the past two years.

Part of the frustration some of us are feeling at the moment comes from the fact that we have a really good group of players, but can't seem to get the best out of them.

I think this season still represents a great opportunity for the club if we can get it to click on the pitch. But if (as seems quite likely right now) we end up somewhere in the middle third of the table will we be able to afford players of the pedigree of Hartley and Sno next year (you might include Saborio and Clarkson, who seemed to have the pedigree, even if they haven't yet delivered) - and will we be able to hold onto players of the quality of Skuse, Fontaine, Maynard (and maybe Orr and Nyatanga)?

IMO there's no way we should even think about replacing GJ, and I think it's a very small minority of City fans who think we should. But to a degree GJ has put himself under pressure by achieving so much in his time here. Not just by raising fans' expectations, but by putting himself in a position to get hold of the playing resources to move on to the next stage. If he'd got us to the playoffs but still had to sell players to balance the books no-one would expect him to repeat the feat. But he's been backed at every stage (as he acknowledges) and having got to Wembley with mostly League 1 players it's not unreasonable to think we might be able to get somewhere close again with players with international and Champions League experience in the side.

I'm still hopeful it will come good this season, and still hope GJ sees out the rest of his contract with us, as I think stability is needed to strengthen the club for the long term.

[Centenary Gas]

Far too reasonable for this forum I'm afraid.

You seen to know a lot about us. Who are these Rovars that you speak of??

No fear I know little about the red side, but having grown up in South Bristol I hear plenty of Lee Johnson/endless striker moans. Fans of all clubs are pretty much the same and all have the same moans. Only a lucky few can succeed, and your horrible lot are in a better position than most.

[Mr Mosquito]

At the start of last season the chairman said we are going for automatic promotion, this season Gary has said on numerous occasions that we need to get in the top 6 and stay there, my expectations are set by the people running the club.

Thus there can be no argument from Gary Johnson or anyone else running the club if the supporters complain about successive poor home performances.

[Somerset_Sam]

So if they had said bottom 3 for us then you would be chuffed with where we are now, is that what you are saying?

It's about managing peoples expectations, you can not tell people that you want to push for promotion and then when things are not going to plan say 'don't moan look where we were 4 years ago'

[Andy082005]

It's about managing peoples expectations, you can not tell people that you want to push for promotion and then when things are not going to plan say 'don't moan look where we were 4 years ago'

Exactly right. Spot on post

[Pezo]

It's about managing peoples expectations, you can not tell people that you want to push for promotion and then when things are not going to plan say 'don't moan look where we were 4 years ago'

But how could they say anything except promotion, if they said they were aiming for mid table obscurity or lower then the reaction would be very negative among fans. The only time a team states there aim for season is to finish out of relegation places is when they are first promoted.

Fans need to manage there own expectations and take certain things with a pinch of salt because all your going to get from a media machine is "its going to be great"

[mindjuicer]

Agreed, i dont expect us to be in the top two, and i dont expect us to be in the top six either.

What i do expect is for a manger that earns big money per week to play a balanced team and formation and unless we have major injuries, playing players in the positions they play best in (which is clearly not the case at the moment).

Agree we are aiming at the top 6 at least.

You can't play this ideal balanced team and formation if you have no left-sided players apart from McAllister. Did GJ try hard enough to sign some? Well he tried to sign Lee Martin apparently, and he signed one who got caught twice driving without a license.

Who should have been playing at right back if not Skuse? Who should be playing inside left if not Sno? We have no left sided wingers period.

There's a general lack of understanding of the game on this forum and massive scapegoating. Not entirely sure why I bother. Probably because it beats doing my tax return...

[Andy082005]

But how could they say anything except promotion, if they said they were aiming for mid table obscurity or lower then the reaction would be very negative among fans. The only time a team states there aim for season is to finish out of relegation places is when they are first promoted.

Fans need to manage there own expectations and take certain things with a pinch of salt because all your going to get from a media machine is "its going to be great"

Not true. I for one would have been more then happy if Lansdown would have said something along the lines of

"this is the 3rd year of a 5 year plan to reach the Premier League, and at present we are on course. We are adding more quality each season and really feel 5 years is a realistic target, however we will give it our all this season and do our utmost to make oursleves a top 6 team"

for me, that shows ambition so season tickets still sale, and covers his own back side

[downendcity]

What is the world coming to! that is one of the most sensible posts I have seen on here for weeks and its by a bloody Gash supporter. Since when have they held the moral high ground? anyone hello?

Since he was able to stand on the outside looking in and without wearing the blinkers of bias, that many City fans wear when passing judgement/comment about the goings on at Ashton Gate.

He has no real interest in whether Lee Johnson is only picked beacuse he's the managers son, or whether we should play a diamond, christmas tree or dogs hind leg formation in midfield. What he talks about is what every sensible football fan knows is one of the biggest problems in football today - too many fans expect the club to acheive everything immediately. For goodness sake, I remember the BBC showing league tables after the first game of the season and talking about teams being in the relegation zone - after one game?!

Only the other day I was thinking of respondoing to another thread about GJ and hw we should play, what formation and style etc. etc. because we are lucky to have so many FIFA, Championship Xbox Play station Football Managers on here who obviously know a whole lot better than the one guy paid to do the job for a living. I didn't , because I thought it pointless, but I will post some of it now because I am weary of the same arguments about the manager and his future here.

I remember Danny Wilson producing probably the most entertaining side for a few years when we were top scorers in the whole football league ( and possible the prem as well) with a winger as our leading scorer. Were fans happy with our attacking style back than? Don't hink so, as fans lambasted DW for our defensive frailty that cost the odd goal and points that would have secured promotion. So did Danny ignore the criticism? No way, he then gave us the best defensive team in the country, playing good football on the ground, an 11 game winning streak and a play off final, just missing auto promotion. Were fans happy now? Nope. This time they lambasted the boring football, across and back passing and lack of goals that cost us points that would have secured promotion.

Seems to me that DW was damned if he did and damned if he didn't, so he went. So (some) fans got whast they wanted, a change of manager so they must have been happy with what followed, surely? The good news is that the disaster that was BT as manager at least led to Gary Johnson coming here - the best thing that has happened to the club in many a year. He's turned the club around, and in many ways the hardest job was the first thing he did, by changing the whole attitude and culture at the club, without which nothing achieved since could have happened. However, what he coudn't change was the attitude and culture of many fans, that still seem to think that this club should be at the top of the division all the time and come what may.

I've supported City since 66-67, since when we had a brief period in the mid late 70's in the top flight. The rest has been in league 1 and championship (in today's money) We have never been a fashionable team, and if truth is told had to buy our way in order to hold on to first division status , as we were among the top payers back then. For the time being we will struggle to attract players many of our rivals can, so GJ has done pretty well to get players like Hartley here in the first place. We are essentially a league 1/championship yo-yo club. A good performance for us is challenging for promotion and getting to the top flight only happens once in a liftetime - that is fact buy the way.

When we were promoted, I expected it to take us 4/5 years to consolidate our position and to then hopefully challege at the top of the table. That we have been in contention for promotion in every seaosn so far, is in my view a miracle in itself. I do think that Gj has assembled probably the best quality squad for many a year , but for a number of reasons is struggling to quite find the right combination pf players and perhaps formation to get the best from them. In my scheme of things I would still be happy if we were in the top half of the season come April/May but hopefully seing the team gelling together by then, so that we could feel confident abolout having a real go next season on an ongoing basis .

However, in todays world of 24 hour news, where something has to be seen happening every minute I understand this will not satisfy all fans expectations whereby not getting promotion is seen as failure. But talk of GJ's days being numbered are surely stipid. If not, then I just remind you of DW's last 2 season once again. Fans were disatisfied with our playing style , but for differing reasons than now, he changed things but was still forced out. What came next was far worse than what went before. Also remember, for all the Curbishley's and Coppell's out there, there are also Dowie's looking for jobs!! The Gas fan was right when he said that the grass always loioks greener.

Talking of Curbishley, I found this post by a Charlton fan. It seems appropriate to finish with his comments. And for all who say it could never happen, remember where we were when GJ took over, so soon after being in a play off final.

09 March 2009 12:27 PM

Charlton fans who criticised Curbishley are being taught a lesson with League One looming Some Charlton fans used to complain about their ex-manager Alan Curbishley because he was not moving their club on to the next level. They were just an established, mid-table, top-flight side and should have been more ambitious. Curbishley (below) departed four years ago. Now Charlton are heading for League One. It's a lesson to be learned by moaning, manager-baiting football fans all over the country.

Sorry it 's a bit rambling but Ive been stopping and starting between working. However, I do think some of us need to take a step back so we can see things in proper perspective, as our otherwise misguided Gas friend has demonstrated.

[Bris Red]

Agree we are aiming at the top 6 at least.

You can't play this ideal balanced team and formation if you have no left-sided players apart from McAllister. Did GJ try hard enough to sign some? Well he tried to sign Lee Martin apparently, and he signed one who got caught twice driving without a license.

Who should have been playing at right back if not Skuse? Who should be playing inside left if not Sno? We have no left sided wingers period.

There's a general lack of understanding of the game on this forum and massive scapegoating. Not entirely sure why I bother. Probably because it beats doing my tax return...

And whos fault is all this? Its GJ and the managments fault we have such an un-balanced team, nobody elses.

For one we have a perfectly decent RB out on loan, why is he not playing? If GJ was un-confident with him why did he not get in another full back in the summer, instead of getting two MORE central midfielders

The left sided problem and the winger situation in general is again ALL down to GJ, so dont make out that he has been forced into this situation, it was all his making ffs.

There is no general lacking of understandment on this forum, i just think there are a few individuals that have theer heads so far up GJ's back side they cannot see the MASSIVE problems we have at the moment.

[Pezo]

Since he was able to stand on the outside looking in and without wearing the blinkers of bias, that many City fans wear when passing judgement/comment about the goings on at Ashton Gate.

He has no real interest in whether Lee Johnson is only picked beacuse he's the managers son, or whether we should play a diamond, christmas tree or dogs hind leg formation in midfield. What he talks about is what every sensible football fan knows is one of the biggest problems in football today - too many fans expect the club to acheive everything immediately. For goodness sake, I remember the BBC showing league tables after the first game of the season and talking about teams being in the relegation zone - after one game?!

Only the other day I was thinking of respondoing to another thread about GJ and hw we should play, what formation and style etc. etc. because we are lucky to have so many FIFA, Championship Xbox Play station Football Managers on here who obviously know a whole lot better than the one guy paid to do the job for a living. I didn't , because I thought it pointless, but I will post some of it now because I am weary of the same arguments about the manager and his future here.

I remember Danny Wilson producing probably the most entertaining side for a few years when we were top scorers in the whole football league ( and possible the prem as well) with a winger as our leading scorer. Were fans happy with our attacking style back than? Don't hink so, as fans lambasted DW for our defensive frailty that cost the odd goal and points that would have secured promotion. So did Danny ignore the criticism? No way, he then gave us the best defensive team in the country, playing good football on the ground, an 11 game winning streak and a play off final, just missing auto promotion. Were fans happy now? Nope. This time they lambasted the boring football, across and back passing and lack of goals that cost us points that would have secured promotion.

Seems to me that DW was damned if he did and damned if he didn't, so he went. So (some) fans got whast they wanted, a change of manager so they must have been happy with what followed, surely? The good news is that the disaster that was BT as manager at least led to Gary Johnson coming here - the best thing that has happened to the club in many a year. He's turned the club around, and in many ways the hardest job was the first thing he did, by changing the whole attitude and culture at the club, without which nothing achieved since could have happened. However, what he coudn't change was the attitude and culture of many fans, that still seem to think that this club should be at the top of the division all the time and come what may.

I've supported City since 66-67, since when we had a brief period in the mid late 70's in the top flight. The rest has been in league 1 and championship (in today's money) We have never been a fashionable team, and if truth is told had to buy our way in order to hold on to first division status , as we were among the top payers back then. For the time being we will struggle to attract players many of our rivals can, so GJ has done pretty well to get players like Hartley here in the first place. We are essentially a league 1/championship yo-yo club. A good performance for us is challenging for promotion and getting to the top flight only happens once in a liftetime - that is fact buy the way.

When we were promoted, I expected it to take us 4/5 years to consolidate our position and to then hopefully challege at the top of the table. That we have been in contention for promotion in every seaosn so far, is in my view a miracle in itself. I do think that Gj has assembled probably the best quality squad for many a year , but for a number of reasons is struggling to quite find the right combination pf players and perhaps formation to get the best from them. In my scheme of things I would still be happy if we were in the top half of the season come April/May but hopefully seing the team gelling together by then, so that we could feel confident abolout having a real go next season on an ongoing basis .

However, in todays world of 24 hour news, where something has to be seen happening every minute I understand this will not satisfy all fans expectations whereby not getting promotion is seen as failure. But talk of GJ's days being numbered are surely stipid. If not, then I just remind you of DW's last 2 season once again. Fans were disatisfied with our playing style , but for differing reasons than now, he changed things but was still forced out. What came next was far worse than what went before. Also remember, for all the Curbishley's and Coppell's out there, there are also Dowie's looking for jobs!! The Gas fan was right when he said that the grass always loioks greener.

Talking of Curbishley, I found this post by a Charlton fan. It seems appropriate to finish with his comments. And for all who say it could never happen, remember where we were when GJ took over, so soon after being in a play off final.

09 March 2009 12:27 PM

Charlton fans who criticised Curbishley are being taught a lesson with League One looming Some Charlton fans used to complain about their ex-manager Alan Curbishley because he was not moving their club on to the next level. They were just an established, mid-table, top-flight side and should have been more ambitious. Curbishley (below) departed four years ago. Now Charlton are heading for League One. It's a lesson to be learned by moaning, manager-baiting football fans all over the country.

Sorry it 's a bit rambling but Ive been stopping and starting between working. However, I do think some of us need to take a step back so we can see things in proper perspective, as our otherwise misguided Gas friend has demonstrated.

Well with 2 sensible post this officially has to be the most sensible thread ever on OTIB.

[Luke_Ciderhead]

The truth is, our playoff season HAS raised expectations dramatically maybe to an unrealistic level.

We are competing with teams that get much bigger gates and have much bigger incomes than us, The Sheffield clubs, WBA, Ipswich, Derby, Forest... And we've finished above many of these in the last 2 years.

A number of our fans had seen last years 10th place Championship finish as an unsuccesful season which would have been a ridiculous suggestion beforehand.

So yep, that flash in the pan season has made us all demand more. But god, I wouldnt change that season for the world.

[Bigdave60]

Good point, but dont you agree we expect to much, I feel we all expect to win at home every game agianst teams that are so much more experienced at this level. And if we dont its cause we were crap. Never are we out played by a better team

I understand where you are coming from, but:-

We in the West Country can be a little laid back, and if Football is a BUSINNESS which is.

We are all looking to aspire to the highest level, like any BUSINESS if you stop the climb to the top.

All BUSINESS will go into a decline.

[Portland Bill]

If we played the best players in there positions then we would have to play something like a 5 2 3.

...........Gerkin

,Orr,Carey,Nyatanga,Macca,

Sproule,Elliot,Hartley. (no left side player so i would play G Williams there)

Maynard Soborio

In a 4-4-2, having to pick the best players in there respective positions.

If we had a "proper" left footed wide man then Williams would play behind Maynard and no Siborio,in my team.

[bully]

If we would of just stayed up in the first season and done say 10th last year what would we be saying now, get rid of GJ........ I DONT THINK SO ? Any thoughts ?

Disagree with you Gary - firstly, how many people on otib are saying get rid?

Second, the playoffs, then 10th is ancient history - however, 10th with some pretty crappy displays last season, with nothing in the way of improved performance this term despite a better (albeit unblanaced) squad of players is what I think most people are unhappy about.

Third point is that the manager and chairman have bigged us up for the past two seasons, so who is setting the benchmark and therefore fans expectations?

I made the comment last week that there's actually a lot of common ground amongst fans who love or loathe GJ - most don't like the unbalanced look of the team, the selection of certain players over others, and the style of play.

What it comes down to I think is simply that some fans love GJ and will therefore make excuses or defend him, and others cannot abide him and are therefore hostile to any failing, real or perceived.

You can't tell me you're right and i'm wrong, and vice versa.

If GJ did what MOST fans wanted (you can always hope can't you?) then the vast majority of hostile comments would go away i'm sure, and those fans who dislike GJ for the way he comes across would nevertheless respect him - which isn't the case at present.

Football at professional level is a results business and our results aren't great at present - I don't believe there's a set of fans in the country who would wait until the end of a season to judge a manager, so why should our fans be any different?

[mindjuicer]

And whos fault is all this? Its GJ and the managments fault we have such an un-balanced team, nobody elses.

Well yeah but you don't know how hard they tried to sign a left-sided midfielder and neither do I. I was very sorry to see McIndoe go and said so at the time. I know he was arrogant but he was hard-working, quality and probably worth a lot more than we got for him.

For one we have a perfectly decent RB out on loan, why is he not playing?

Because Skuse was playing well enough to keep him in the team. Ribs was given out on loan after Orr got injured.

If GJ was un-confident with him why did he not get in another full back in the summer, instead of getting two MORE central midfielders

Everyone knew we needed at least 1 quality midfielder. And Sno was clearly too good to turn down. We have loads of options at RB but hardly any at LB or left-sided midfield/attack.

The left sided problem and the winger situation in general is again ALL down to GJ, so dont make out that he has been forced into this situation, it was all his making ffs.

Who knows? I'm inclined to agree with you. What I don't agree with:

1. That he's not putting out the best team and the best formation we can atm.

2. That playing Sproule will miraculously fix everything.

3. That Sno should be playing CM, DM or anything but inside left.

4. That LJ is even partly responsible for our recent form.

There is no general lacking of understandment on this forum, i just think there are a few individuals that have theer heads so far up GJ's back side they cannot see the MASSIVE problems we have at the moment.

So, if we start winning in the next 2 games and get in the playoffs, will you admit you're wrong?

I admit I'm an admirer of GJ. I got the chance to talk privately with him briefly and he's a very down-to-earth bloke and somebody I could be friends with. I've not seen a single convincing argument that he's made any major mistakes.

Any objective person will look at your post and agree that you're desperate to blame GJ for reasons of your own. You might be right... but you don't know you are and it just looks like you have a chip on your shoulder.

[bully]

What I don't agree with:

1. That he's not putting out the best team and the best formation we can atm.

3. That Sno should be playing CM, DM or anything but inside left.

4. That LJ is even partly responsible for our recent form.

I admit I'm an admirer of GJ.

I've not seen a single convincing argument that he's made any major mistakes.

Well thats one way of looking at it I suppose .

What's your thoughts on Jamie McCombe incidentally - let me guess, whatever GJ says.