Pete1975Legend Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I am sorry but the last two games prove to me how much LJ actually does for the TEAM, the midfield is currently being bypassed because we have no one that wants to go and collect the ball off of them (something LJ does). The golden boy (Skuse) who didn't pklay one forward pass or collect the ball from the defence gets man of the match and no one wants to talk about his distribution surprise surprise. The fans called for a change in the team and got Clarkson in who quite franklly was shocking told to play in a 3 5 2 and went wondering too many times. Sorry it's just shows you that us fans don't know our best team at all and for me the sooner LJ comes back in the better at least he actually wants the ball and keeps moves flowing. Maybe then the defence wont have to look long all the time. Some fans are very blinkered in their thoughts and maybe just maybe they should actually go with a clear mind and actually watch what certain players bring to the team when their in it instead of slagging them off when they put one pass out of place. LJ city needs you back in the team and it must start Saturday!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Its nothing to do with individual players. The style of play is the same regardless of which players make up the 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Its nothing to do with individual players. The style of play is the same regardless of which players make up the 11. Exactly, we're still throwing away points at home with late opposition equalizers just like last season when Lee Johnson played most games. A mystery because during our first season back at this level we often played some barn storming attacking football and finished 4th as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 We have played exactly the same as that many times that LJ has played. In fact the way Sno played Saturday made me think he must have been taking lessons from LJ in how to give the ball away in dangerous areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 There's a case for playing LJ in Sno's place because Sno was chuffing terrible but to suggest that LJ's absence is why we play long ball is to ludicrously ignore the long ball shite prevalent in all of the games he has started in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pezo Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 We have played exactly the same as that many times that LJ has played. In fact the way Sno played Saturday made me think he must have been taking lessons from LJ in how to give the ball away in dangerous areas. I think you will find that Sno has done that regular as clockwork since he has been here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I think you will find that Sno has done that regular as clockwork since he has been here. Not that I've noticed. It was only Saturday that it was very bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockin-robin Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I am sorry but the last two games prove to me how much LJ actually does for the TEAM, the midfield is currently being bypassed because we have no one that wants to go and collect the ball off of them (something LJ does). The golden boy (Skuse) who didn't pklay one forward pass or collect the ball from the defence gets man of the match and no one wants to talk about his distribution surprise surprise. The fans called for a change in the team and got Clarkson in who quite franklly was shocking told to play in a 3 5 2 and went wondering too many times. Sorry it's just shows you that us fans don't know our best team at all and for me the sooner LJ comes back in the better at least he actually wants the ball and keeps moves flowing. Maybe then the defence wont have to look long all the time. Some fans are very blinkered in their thoughts and maybe just maybe they should actually go with a clear mind and actually watch what certain players bring to the team when their in it instead of slagging them off when they put one pass out of place. LJ city needs you back in the team and it must start Saturday!!! Football is all about opinions. And quite obviously, you are clearly "blinkered" as to what LJ actually brings to the team. No one played well on Saturday, but anyone with an ounze of footballing knowledge could see that, besides Gerken (again), that Skuse was our best performer. It was by no way Skuses' best game but he didn't do much wrong either and put himself about more than a lot of others. Clarkson, for me, did quite well considering the amount of ball he got. He was finding pockets of space and was begining to feed Maynard on a couple of occasions. It was Clarksons pass that led to the penalty, wasn't it? And I was actually a little disappointed he was substituted because I thought he was our only real chance of opening Reading up. The defence had to keep looking long because they had no other real option. They were under continuous pressure from Reading and had no outlet ball because the midfield was so congested due to our lack of width. All the players can pass the ball, but if they have no one to pass it to, they are going to have to smack it long.....especially when under so much pressure due to GJ's tactical naievity. It will possibly ruffle a few feathers on here and may sound a bit strong, but LJ, although not the worst footballer I have ever seen, is a cancer at Bristol City Football Club that will continue to be BCFC's achillies heel. He divides support and opinion like no other player I can remember and is eating away at the unity the club strived to build up 2 years ago. He needs to be moved on is City want to keep progressing. If he was the best player in the world, then fair enough, however he ain't, therefore is he worth all this division amongst support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Football is all about opinions. And quite obviously, you are clearly "blinkered" as to what LJ actually brings to the team. No one played well on Saturday, but anyone with an ounze of footballing knowledge could see that, besides Gerken (again), that Skuse was our best performer. It was by no way Skuses' best game but he didn't do much wrong either and put himself about more than a lot of others. Clarkson, for me, did quite well considering the amount of ball he got. He was finding pockets of space and was begining to feed Maynard on a couple of occasions. It was Clarksons pass that led to the penalty, wasn't it? And I was actually a little disappointed he was substituted because I thought he was our only real chance of opening Reading up. The defence had to keep looking long because they had no other real option. They were under continuous pressure from Reading and had no outlet ball because the midfield was so congested due to our lack of width. All the players can pass the ball, but if they have no one to pass it to, they are going to have to smack it long.....especially when under so much pressure due to GJ's tactical naievity. It will possibly ruffle a few feathers on here and may sound a bit strong, but LJ, although not the worst footballer I have ever seen, is a cancer at Bristol City Football Club that will continue to be BCFC's achillies heel. He divides support and opinion like no other player I can remember and is eating away at the unity the club strived to build up 2 years ago. He needs to be moved on is City want to keep progressing. If he was the best player in the world, then fair enough, however he ain't, therefore is he worth all this division amongst support? Blinkered? pot kettle black. I think LJ was missed saturday. The style of football would have been the same - but I feel we would have had tons more possesion than we did. We certainly dominate possesion when hartley & lee johnson are in the same side. That is something you cannot deny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 We certainly dominate possesion when hartley & lee johnson are in the same side. That is something you cannot deny. I wouldn't agree with that. I suppose LJ is quite good at holding it up just infront of the defence and then giving it away though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 We certainly dominate possesion when hartley & lee johnson are in the same side. That is something you cannot deny. Dominated possession?!? Don't make me laugh, we've barely won midfield battles despite playing narrow this season and if we've dominated the middle it's been a very rare spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockin-robin Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Blinkered? pot kettle black. I think LJ was missed saturday. The style of football would have been the same - but I feel we would have had tons more possesion than we did. We certainly dominate possesion when hartley & lee johnson are in the same side. That is something you cannot deny. I don't think I've ever seen us dominate possession with Hartley and Johnson in the side. Have we dominated possesion at all this season? True, we've had spells of keeping the ball, but I'm yet to witness City truely batter a team like Reading, Peterboro, Sheffields alike have done to us this season simply by "dominating" possesion. The only times I've seen us come anywhere near dominating possesion, LJ was not in the team. I thought we looked like the AWAY team on Saturday and LJ's dinked little passes certainly would not have improved on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Humble Realist Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I am sorry but the last two games prove to me how much LJ actually does for the TEAM, the midfield is currently being bypassed because we have no one that wants to go and collect the ball off of them (something LJ does). The golden boy (Skuse) who didn't pklay one forward pass or collect the ball from the defence gets man of the match and no one wants to talk about his distribution surprise surprise. The fans called for a change in the team and got Clarkson in who quite franklly was shocking told to play in a 3 5 2 and went wondering too many times. Sorry it's just shows you that us fans don't know our best team at all and for me the sooner LJ comes back in the better at least he actually wants the ball and keeps moves flowing. Maybe then the defence wont have to look long all the time. Some fans are very blinkered in their thoughts and maybe just maybe they should actually go with a clear mind and actually watch what certain players bring to the team when their in it instead of slagging them off when they put one pass out of place. LJ city needs you back in the team and it must start Saturday!!! iv often criticised Skuse in the past but he was superb on sat, our best player and this season in general he has always played well wherever he has played in the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz897 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Blinkered? pot kettle black. I think LJ was missed saturday. The style of football would have been the same - but I feel we would have had tons more possesion than we did. We certainly dominate possesion when hartley & lee johnson are in the same side. That is something you cannot deny. As usual Riaz blowing smoke up LJ arse! LJ does dominate possesion with 5-10 yard tippy tappy passes sideways and backwards. I know the view in the east end isnt great but you must be behind one of the pillars!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Dominated possession?!? Don't make me laugh, we've barely won midfield battles despite playing narrow this season and if we've dominated the middle it's been a very rare spell. I don't think I've ever seen us dominate possession with Hartley and Johnson in the side. Have we dominated possesion at all this season? True, we've had spells of keeping the ball, but I'm yet to witness City truely batter a team like Reading, Peterboro, Sheffields alike have done to us this season simply by "dominating" possesion. The only times I've seen us come anywhere near dominating possesion, LJ was not in the team. I thought we looked like the AWAY team on Saturday and LJ's dinked little passes certainly would not have improved on this. We definately have dominated possesion with those two in the side... we may not have looked like scoring most of the time but we have dominated possesion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz897 Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Football is all about opinions. And quite obviously, you are clearly "blinkered" as to what LJ actually brings to the team. No one played well on Saturday, but anyone with an ounze of footballing knowledge could see that, besides Gerken (again), that Skuse was our best performer. It was by no way Skuses' best game but he didn't do much wrong either and put himself about more than a lot of others. Clarkson, for me, did quite well considering the amount of ball he got. He was finding pockets of space and was begining to feed Maynard on a couple of occasions. It was Clarksons pass that led to the penalty, wasn't it? And I was actually a little disappointed he was substituted because I thought he was our only real chance of opening Reading up. The defence had to keep looking long because they had no other real option. They were under continuous pressure from Reading and had no outlet ball because the midfield was so congested due to our lack of width. All the players can pass the ball, but if they have no one to pass it to, they are going to have to smack it long.....especially when under so much pressure due to GJ's tactical naievity. It will possibly ruffle a few feathers on here and may sound a bit strong, but LJ, although not the worst footballer I have ever seen, is a cancer at Bristol City Football Club that will continue to be BCFC's achillies heel. He divides support and opinion like no other player I can remember and is eating away at the unity the club strived to build up 2 years ago. He needs to be moved on is City want to keep progressing. If he was the best player in the world, then fair enough, however he ain't, therefore is he worth all this division amongst support? Spot on, good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Humble Realist Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Football is all about opinions. And quite obviously, you are clearly "blinkered" as to what LJ actually brings to the team. No one played well on Saturday, but anyone with an ounze of footballing knowledge could see that, besides Gerken (again), that Skuse was our best performer. It was by no way Skuses' best game but he didn't do much wrong either and put himself about more than a lot of others. Clarkson, for me, did quite well considering the amount of ball he got. He was finding pockets of space and was begining to feed Maynard on a couple of occasions. It was Clarksons pass that led to the penalty, wasn't it? And I was actually a little disappointed he was substituted because I thought he was our only real chance of opening Reading up. The defence had to keep looking long because they had no other real option. They were under continuous pressure from Reading and had no outlet ball because the midfield was so congested due to our lack of width. All the players can pass the ball, but if they have no one to pass it to, they are going to have to smack it long.....especially when under so much pressure due to GJ's tactical naievity. It will possibly ruffle a few feathers on here and may sound a bit strong, but LJ, although not the worst footballer I have ever seen, is a cancer at Bristol City Football Club that will continue to be BCFC's achillies heel. He divides support and opinion like no other player I can remember and is eating away at the unity the club strived to build up 2 years ago. He needs to be moved on is City want to keep progressing. If he was the best player in the world, then fair enough, however he ain't, therefore is he worth all this division amongst support? agree with most bar the last paragraph. Clarkson looked promising and Skuse did all that was asked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 We definately have dominated possesion with those two in the side... we may not have looked like scoring most of the time but we have dominated possesion... If you look at possesion stats from games we have sometimes had more, sometimes had less in games. There is no conclusive evidence to say we have 'definately dominated possesion'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 We definately have dominated possesion with those two in the side... we may not have looked like scoring most of the time but we have dominated possesion... No, we haven't. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/e...v_1/8388805.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/e...v_1/8374445.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/e...v_1/8263544.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/e...v_1/8251421.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/e...v_1/8244579.stm The best we've done is 55% at home to Scunny and in most cases both have played we've lost the possession battle as you can see from the actual facts. More importantly it is also a fact that we have had better results without LJ - with him starting we've only beaten Barnsley and Blackpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 If you look at possesion stats from games we have sometimes had more, sometimes had less in games. There is no conclusive evidence to say we have 'definately dominated possesion'. There hasnt been many games where LJ & Hartley have started together - in those few games we've had more of the ball. I'm not saying LJ is the answer, nor am I saying that having possesion means we win games.... But clarkson was looking quite good on saturday - and if we could have held the ball long enough and kept possesion, I think we could have won that game quite easily.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 There hasnt been many games where LJ & Hartley have started together - in those few games we've had more of the ball. I'm not saying LJ is the answer, nor am I saying that having possesion means we win games.... But clarkson was looking quite good on saturday - and if we could have held the ball long enough and kept possesion, I think we could have won that game quite easily.... Well I'm afraid your impression, and that's all it is, doesn't correlate with the facts. My own impression is that LJ is effective in a 3 man midfield against weaker sides where he has time and no pressure and detrimental to our possession in other cases. Other stats from the league so far: CS - 1 assist 2 goals ES - 0 assists 2 goals PH - 2 assists 3 goals ME - 0 assists 1 goal LJ - 0 assists 0 goals. Subjective opinions aside, the figures and results just don't support the view that we're better with him in the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 No, we haven't. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/e...v_1/8388805.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/e...v_1/8374445.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/e...v_1/8263544.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/e...v_1/8251421.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/e...v_1/8244579.stm The best we've done is 55% at home to Scunny and in most cases both have played we've lost the possession battle as you can see from the actual facts. More importantly it is also a fact that we have had better results without LJ - with him starting we've only beaten Barnsley and Blackpool. Well - i suppose you cant argue with facts.... With my own eyes (at home) we've seemed to have had more play until of course we go deep and concede the late goal... Those last 10-20 minutes where we do go deep must have a huge impact on the stats possesion wise?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Well - i suppose you cant argue with facts.... With my own eyes (at home) we've seemed to have had more play until of course we go deep and concede the late goal... Those last 10-20 minutes where we do go deep must have a huge impact on the stats possesion wise?? I imagine they have a fairly big impact. One of the things that's always confused me is why we so often leave LJ on in those circumstances - even his biggest fans must admit that he isn't going to help you defend a lead desperately. It's not like there's anybody for him to aim passes at either as we're usually defending with all XI. I think overall though that the root cause has to be that we don't have enough to our forward play to score more than once and that is something down to width and the movement that having that option allows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I imagine they have a fairly big impact. One of the things that's always confused me is why we so often leave LJ on in those circumstances - even his biggest fans must admit that he isn't going to help you defend a lead desperately. It's not like there's anybody for him to aim passes at either as we're usually defending with all XI. I think overall though that the root cause has to be that we don't have enough to our forward play to score more than once and that is something down to width and the movement that having that option allows. I would use LJ ALOT less than we use him. I would certainly take him off when we need a goal... or even when we are defending a lead... his physical presence, as we all know is non-existent. This magic word "width" is getting on my nerves tbh. I can understand what people are talking about. But we do occasionally get wide.... The problem is none of our players ever get to the by-line - when the are wide - this would make defences have to work harder - but at the moment we are fairly easy to defend against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchay Red Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 All I have to say is that I am also sure you are in the minority. :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lack of Action Man Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 putting him back in the side is a massive step backwards. I actually really like a Hartley/Skuse central midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Must admit, I had thought that the midfield really needed a player of limited stature, with minimal tackling ability, modest shooting ability whose main strength is to stand in space, receive the ball, then pass it 5 yards. Simple fact is that we need to get back to a balanced 4-4-2 formation, and LJ's presence just puts too much workload on the other central midfielder, or means the wide players drifting in to cover. He has done a reasonable job for us, but like McCoombe, is just not good enough for this level of football, and needs to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 This magic word "width" is getting on my nerves tbh. I can understand what people are talking about. But we do occasionally get wide.... The problem is none of our players ever get to the by-line - when the are wide - this would make defences have to work harder - but at the moment we are fairly easy to defend against. I'm not that bothered about the by line though that would be nice. It's easy to dismiss arguments for more "width" by saying things like "nobody plays with two out and out wingers" and "we don't have big forwards that thrive on crosses" but I've never been talking about two touchline hugging tricky divas that stitch up full backs and provide 20 crosses each a game. The problems the lack of width causes are more subtle IMO and it's the effect it has on the rest of the team. As I see it is right now there is absolutely no reason for the opposition full backs to stay wide, they can narrow in and compact our strikers making their jobs extremely hard as they have no space and any movement is easily tracked. They're double marked often and that makes retaining possession up top very hard even for the likes of Sno. So we lose the ball more. In midfield we have little movement to aim at and tightly marked forwards so there are fewer passing options and they are harder. We get forced into hopeful passes with low completion or hoof balls from defence under pressure as we dither looking for something to change. Defensively when we've lost that ball the opposition can stroll down either flank until the final third unmolested so every time we lose the ball we're under pressure immediately after. Our solid spine is very easy to pass around. Magic word and irritating it may be but it really is essential. Think of it as balance if you prefer - right now we ignore about a third of the pitch in the opposition half most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke_bristol Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Exactly, we're still throwing away points at home with late opposition equalizers just like last season when Lee Johnson played most games. A mystery because during our first season back at this level we often played some barn storming attacking football and finished 4th as a result. Indeed, we were even described more than once as "The Arsenal of the Championship" !!! The only Arsenal team we resemble now is the "boring boring Arsenal" of the 80s and 90s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Indeed, we were even described more than once as "The Arsenal of the Championship" !!! The only Arsenal team we resemble now is the "boring boring Arsenal" of the 80s and 90s I wonder if we would really be happier to go out and play 'attractive' football only to lose, because this is what some fans are suggesting is preferable. If you wont poncy one touch show boating crap then there are some great vids on youtube, but on planet reality at BCFC GJ has to try and WIN games...thats his job! The Arsenal of the Championship is no label to be proud of. Arsnel are cheating ******. Wenger may like he players to pass the ball about pointlessly, but what have the Gooners won recently with their style of play? Absolutely nada because poncy football wins you bugger all unless you have world class players like Barca. Yes we miss LJ I think, he is still imo our best midfield player and should start ervry game. Drop Sno, he sounds useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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