How Can It Be Gary Johnson's Fault?

[Pete1975Legend]

After every game we ge the same people going on about the same thing, it's as predictable as Christmas falling on 25 December each year. We start with Mark then onto Terry.....etc etc

I don't mind listening in but this constant having a go at GJ is just pathetic, 1st it was LJ the fans got their wish and he isn't in the first team, they get the team they want and still it's not good enough. From GJ point of view he has probably over achieved and now soem fans are getting greedy and calling for his head, what made me laugh is the guy that said bring in Southgate, the same Southgate who got 'boro relegated.

In 2007 if someone had said to us 'right your going to finish 21st then 16th then top 10' in the championship over the next 3 seasons we would of bitten their hand off, but instead we had a great first season and a good second season to and now were having a good thrid season and yet people want the manager sacked? It is totally unbelievable, some of our fans have got to get a perspective and just keep believing as this telephoning in and the negative reaction to results on this forum is just not helping.

A special note must go to the idiot who said Sproule can't dribble with the ball? Did you go to Leicester? or were you snuggling down in your armchair!!!

But it's not just the radio the fans who booed GJ off in the Ateyo yesterday what were you thinking? If you boo GJ then you have to boo the players to after all they are the ones who sit back in the box and yet no one has criticised our Goalie for not claiming the ball on 2 occasions in the lead up to that goal or Skuse for the lazy ball out of defence. But lets not forget these are the golden boys who can do no wrong.

[Coach]

I think the argument is that if we played a more attacking formation it wouldn't have mattered about any of those goals because we would have had that famous two or even three goal cushion. In reality we may have lost one or two but 3 points for a win rewards teams who aren't cautious and go for the win.

The facts of that are true, of course.

BUT, if in all those games we had played a different formation we may not have even been winning come the 90th minute. Gary's gameplan, tactics, team selection and substitutions has got us through 89/94ths of many games in front. OK so we've consistently not got two goals in front but some people - not pointing the finger at you specifically, exiledinwatford - think we have a divine right to go and win games, as if the opposition should be expected to lie down because we are Bristol City or something.

Every team in this league has a lot to offer and the vast majority of them are evenly matched. Many games are won by the odd goal against a perceived-to-be-unlucky losing team. For Gary to have got us through the first 95% of every game (i.e. up to the start of the 90th minute) with us leading 11 and drawing 7 of 24 games suggests to me he is getting 95% of the job very right indeed. We don't have the quality in the team or in the squad, yet, to outplay other teams after just 2½ seasons at this level and go 2 or 3 up on a regular basis. We are punching at the right weight IMO and patience is needed while the management slowly but surely improve the overall standing of the club by learning and adapting all the time.

Had we not conceded all these goals in the final 5% of games the vast majority of those ridiculously calling for Gary's head would have been calling him a genius for getting us to 4th place again whilst clearly not playing to our full potential. And yet so many seem to let the majority of their opinion be clouded by what has happened only in the final 5% of games - an area in which it's surely the players who have to dig in and deserve their paychecks.

[The Humble Realist]

In the past you could argue its GJs fault due to subs etc meaning we have had more defensivly minded players on which has led to the other team to put us under pressure

HOWEVER

yesterday it wasnt Gjs fault, we were playing well until LN got sent off and bottom line is GJ isnt in the box to clear it. Yesterday i dont think you can blame him at all

[Guest]

In the past you could argue its GJs fault due to subs etc meaning we have had more defensivly minded players on which has led to the other team to put us under pressure

HOWEVER

yesterday it wasnt Gjs fault, we were playing well until LN got sent off and bottom line is GJ isnt in the box to clear it. Yesterday i dont think you can blame him at all

Course not, not his fault that some players will never learn the game dosent always finish after an hour and a half, its never happened before they werent hand picked by him for their, skill, fitness and self control.

Hes the manager, the buck stops.

[The Humble Realist]

Course not, not his fault that some players will never learn the game dosent always finish after an hour and a half, its never happened before they werent hand picked by him for their, skill, fitness and self control.

Hes the manager, the buck stops.

like i said , in past occasions i think it can be argued that this is the case.

However, i really dont think yesterday it was his fault. just my opinion on yesterdays match as a one off game

[Bodiesaffer]

See, I just don't understand this way of thinking.

Do you seriously believe that Gary says "right boys, when that board goes up at 90 minutes I want you all to panic, stop closing players down and don't clear the ball properly" ?

And if they do panic, not close down and fail to clear the ball then he has lost the dressing room?!? Very strange.

Did he also tell Nyatanga to tackle recklessly even after being booked?

Of course some things aren't going perfectly and we'd all do some things differently to what he has/does but his decisions, on the whole, are still seeing his team challenge very strongly - and winning more than losing - against equally matched opponents.

The problem is that if you chose to use bully boy tactics players will panic in fear of losing there jobs which makes for mistakes. or get fed up with the bull and take on tactics that will get ride of the manager. ie tinman

Johnson needs to learn which players can and cannot be bullied fast.

[The Humble Realist]

its not about bullying its a combination of the following which has led to late goals

-Not killing games off

-Not concentrating

-Having too much pressure on us (sometimes due to tactics)

-Scoring one goal and trying to hang on

-Defence being weaker than in previous years

In regards to the last 2, look back at both seasons when GJ first took over (promotion and play off year). We won so many games 1-0 or 2-1 and were scrapping and scrambling in the last 10 often last 20. Its because the defence was superb. McCombe and Carey used to put their bodies on line, they still would and do, difference is they are yard slower etc etc. basically the defence isnt quite as good as it used to be so it cant keep hanging on to these 1-0 or 2-1 leads. Sometimes it can, but bottom line is they are under ridiculous amounts of pressure. I remember when we beat Milwall once, murray scored after about 20secs and guy next to me said "im off home itl finish 1-0" he was right

[exiledinwatford]

The facts of that are true, of course.

BUT, if in all those games we had played a different formation we may not have even been winning come the 90th minute. Gary's gameplan, tactics, team selection and substitutions has got us through 89/94ths of many games in front. OK so we've consistently not got two goals in front but some people - not pointing the finger at you specifically, exiledinwatford - think we have a divine right to go and win games, as if the opposition should be expected to lie down because we are Bristol City or something.

Every team in this league has a lot to offer and the vast majority of them are evenly matched. Many games are won by the odd goal against a perceived-to-be-unlucky losing team. For Gary to have got us through the first 95% of every game (i.e. up to the start of the 90th minute) with us leading 11 and drawing 7 of 24 games suggests to me he is getting 95% of the job very right indeed. We don't have the quality in the team or in the squad, yet, to outplay other teams after just 2½ seasons at this level and go 2 or 3 up on a regular basis. We are punching at the right weight IMO and patience is needed while the management slowly but surely improve the overall standing of the club by learning and adapting all the time.

Had we not conceded all these goals in the final 5% of games the vast majority of those ridiculously calling for Gary's head would have been calling him a genius for getting us to 4th place again whilst clearly not playing to our full potential. And yet so many seem to let the majority of their opinion be clouded by what has happened only in the final 5% of games - an area in which it's surely the players who have to dig in and deserve their paychecks.

Yep some very valid points. I do think though that this squad of players are good enough to play a more attacking brand of football and should be given that chance. I enjoyed yesterday, the effort was good and at last we had a threat down at least one of the flanks. Scunny, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich, Peterboro, Reading, Sheffield United even Watford came to The Gate without much confidence and we didn't manage to take advantage and beat any of them. 6 points from those 7 games is the same (in points terms) as winning 2 and losing 5! I just wonder that if we had been more adventurous how many more points we would have picked up and how much more confidence we would have had???

[Coach]

Yep some very valid points. I do think though that this squad of players are good enough to play a more attacking brand of football and should be given that chance. I enjoyed yesterday, the effort was good and at last we had a threat down at least one of the flanks. Scunny, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich, Peterboro, Reading, Sheffield United even Watford came to The Gate without much confidence and we didn't manage to take advantage and beat any of them. 6 points from those 7 games is the same (in points terms) as winning 2 and losing 5! I just wonder that if we had been more adventurous how many more points we would have picked up and how much more confidence we would have had???

I do agree with you, that more attacking football should be achievable with this team. What I'm not sure about is whether it would get us more points as I don't feel we have anywhere near a strong enough defence to cope when we get attacked with more players caught upfield. Nyatanga for me is poor on the ball, don't know what's happened to Liam as he looks poor this season, McCombe isn't good enough while Brad and McCallister are prone to big errors and too many poor games. Defenders are the priority for me in the transfer window, I could cope with Skuse at left midfield after his fine effort there on Monday.

[REDOXO]

How many times have we deserved something out of games we have lost?

These Championship matches are very evenly matched and usually when one team scores the other comes back and dominates. Often a losing team has done everything but score, often the losing team is perceived as being unlucky to have lost.

How was Gary to blame for Peterboro's flicked goal into the very top corner?

And for the joke defending by McCombe and Johnson for Scunny's equaliser?

And for Nyatanga losing Church for Reading's goal?

And for the dodgy pen at Preston?

And for Sheff Utd's ridiculous route one winner?

He can stop all those mistakes can he? Is he God?

All he can do is bring in the players he thinks can help us progress. No manager has anywhere near a perfect record when it comes to transfers and what I like is that Gary has said they will go if they don't perform well enough, even if it was his signing.

As regards your a b and c, yes he does all that and until the dying minutes when other teams go gung-ho and our defenders fail to do their job, he gets the right results more often than not!

The comments are pretty much spot on...how many times have we been winning going into the final few to then **** it up.

Gary carries the can for certain players not performing but continually getting picked and lets face it there are a few of those but consistent last minute goals the players carry the can for not concentrating or for some reason lacking confidence....Trouble is its in their heads now and only a good sports shrink will change that...!

[Rob k]

The comments are pretty much spot on...how many times have we been winning going into the final few to then **** it up.

Gary carries the can for certain players not performing but continually getting picked and lets face it there are a few of those but consistent last minute goals the players carry the can for not concentrating or for some reason lacking confidence....Trouble is its in their heads now and only a good sports shrink will change that...!

The fact is we should have had the game wrapped up anyway, Maynard and Sproule should have made it 3 and 4 - 1, they did'nt and Watford go up the other end and score. No way is this GJ's fault as a manger and the people saying it is clearly just dont like him and would prefer people like coppell, Southgate and an unproven sean O Driscoll in charge of us. Thankfully they seem to be in the minority.

[Guest pogopete]

The fact is we should have had the game wrapped up anyway, Maynard and Sproule should have made it 3 and 4 - 1, they did'nt and Watford go up the other end and score. No way is this GJ's fault as a manger and the people saying it is clearly just dont like him and would prefer people like coppell, Southgate and an unproven sean O Driscoll in charge of us. Thankfully they seem to be in the minority.

He gave Sproul A new contract when it was obvious to most people he was not good enough, the end game is he signed these players to do a job for him that's why its his fault.

[marshy]

Gary and his team assess the opposition every week, obviously. He sends out the team that he thinks can do the job, with a gameplan that he hopes will be superior to the opposition's gameplan. He may change things during the game, obviously, and by the 89th minute I would say, overall, one can judge whether Gary has done a good job or not.

Once the 89th minute has ticked by I would say that Gary can do very little; it is down to the players on the pitch to see the game out. I think that is fair.

Once every 89th minute ticked by this season we have been:

LEADING 11 times

Drawing 7 times

Losing 6 times

... that would be 40 pts, a +5 goal difference, and comfortably in the playoffs.

I see it as events after the 89th minute has ticked by as being out of control of either management team bar a manager telling a keeper he can go forward for a corner.

For me Gary is doing well and is absolutely the only man for the job.

I cannot believe some people suggest he is failing and should be sacked. Get a grip.

President Harry Truman had a sign on his desk in the White House which said 'The Buck Stops Here'.

Apologies if this has already been quoted in this lengthy thread but Gary is the top guy and has to take responsibility.

[Coach]

President Harry Truman had a sign on his desk in the White House which said 'The Buck Stops Here'.

Apologies if this has already been quoted in this lengthy thread but Gary is the top guy and has to take responsibility.

I'm sure he is well aware that he is the manager and responsible for results. But I'm just trying to say that I find it difficult how he is personally responsible for the freak run of added-time goals, all of which (eight is it?) came when we were winning the game (bar one, Sheff Utd?). Why does he get no credit that we were in front in all those games?

Put another way, if we had won 6 games this season with 93rd minute goals some "supporters" would be calling us lucky and Gary a lucky manager. They certainly wouldn't be saying it was all down to him.

[marshy]

I'm sure he is well aware that he is the manager and responsible for results. But I'm just trying to say that I find it difficult how he is personally responsible for the freak run of added-time goals, all of which (eight is it?) came when we were winning the game (bar one, Sheff Utd?). Why does he get no credit that we were in front in all those games?

Put another way, if we had won 6 games this season with 93rd minute goals some "supporters" would be calling us lucky and Gary a lucky manager. They certainly wouldn't be saying it was all down to him.

Another quote. It was Gary Player that said about his golf, 'the more I practise the luckier I get'. I would suggest that if the same defence were to play together on a more regular basis then the understanding between them would improve and the number of last minute goals we concede would decrease. I gave the stats in a previous post but as things stand we have started with 13 different line-ups in defence in 24 games, and that's not taking into account the changes he makes to the defence during the game. It's pretty obvious we're going to concede when the pressure is applied at the end of the game.

[Coach]

I would suggest that if the same defence were to play together on a more regular basis then the understanding between them would improve and the number of last minute goals we concede would decrease.

I would agree with that. But to my mind the defence is chopped and changed so much because most of them are borderline good enough. With a big, true leader / organiser back there alongside Louis then possibly Jamie Mac and Brad would get tightened up but a defence including those inconsistent two plus Nyatanga or Fontaine is not good enough IMO.

[lager loud]

Put another way, if we had won 6 games this season with 93rd minute goals some "supporters" would be calling us lucky and Gary a lucky manager. They certainly wouldn't be saying it was all down to him.

But there would have been some of us giving him credit for that happening - as we did in the play-off season, when there were any number of games that we didn't dominate but got a result, including lots of late winners/equalisers. If it happens once or twice it can be down to luck, but when you do it time and time again it's not an accident, it's "team spirit" or a "never say die" attitude. I certainly gave GJ credit in the playoff season for building a team that was more than the sum of its parts. This season we have the opposite, and without going anywhere near the "GJ should go" argument I think it's fair to say that if the team is less than the sum of its parts, as at present, it's at least partly the manager's fault, and certainly his responsibility to sort it out.