Lee Johnson Back From His Loan @ Derby

[Guest boss192]

Well I'm glad he's back.

hopefully GJ will tweak his formation to allow him to slot back in.

What a pathetic post...so when are you and lee haveing your romantic evening together!!!!

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Now now. Don't let the facts get in the way of a prejudice.

I stand corrected MY mistake, that was so foolish of me, fact.

[Pete1975Legend]

To be fair to LJ when he hasn't been here we haven't been winning, so I personally would put him straight back in so that someone will actually be available to the back 4 so that they don't have to by pass midfield.....

LJ your time has come to show people exactly what tey have been missing.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Who would you drop?

[mindjuicer]

We need players who are going to take the game by the scruff of the neck ATM not players who are going to play 2 yard passes in our half.

Better than conceeding 6...

Look, LJ hit Savage in the face, got them to pay for it and proved he's worth £500,000 at least. Consummate professional.

Hope he goes back on loan next week.

Wouldn't be surprised, with Sno on the bench.

The divide our club is in at the moment is bad enough we do not need it to be split even more.

Maybe that's GJ's plan? Let LJ take the flack.

[Alex_BCFC]

To be fair to LJ when he hasn't been here we haven't been winning, so I personally would put him straight back in so that someone will actually be available to the back 4 so that they don't have to by pass midfield.....

LJ your time has come to show people exactly what tey have been missing.

What is your obssession with saying we haven't been winning when he hasn't been here. Look at the games he started before he left:

City 0-0 Ipswich

City 2-3 Sheffield United

City 1-1 Sheff Wed

Barnsley 2-3 City

City 1-1 Peterborough

Newcastle 0-0 City

City 2-0 Blackpool

Derby 1-0 City

City 1-1 S****horpe

Swansea 0-0 S****horpe

City 0-2 Carlisle

Cardiff 3-0 City

Brentford 0-1 City

So that is 3 wins, 6 draws and 4 defeats. Hardly out of this world and not that much different to our current form.

I don't actually think there is a correlation between him and winning probably because he doesn't do enough in the game to matter that much. We have been not winning because we have an unbalanced, unconsistent side most weeks. Bringing LJ back is not going to help us.

[Nibor]

We have been not winning because we have an unbalanced, unconsistent side most weeks. Bringing LJ back is not going to help us.

Exactly that.

If LJ plays it will be in a three man central midfield, (because he can't play in a two man central pair at this level) and we'll have Agyemang, Maynard and JCR ahead of them because both of the new signings will start for a while. This is one of the many "shapes" we've already tried this season with Saborio or Sno and Haynes doing what Agyemang and JCR would do. It won't work now either.

[Chappers]

Desperately needed as we only have 5 experienced central midfielders available!

[mindjuicer]

So that is 3 wins, 6 draws and 4 defeats. Hardly out of this world and not that much different to our current form.

Form since LJ was dropped:

Tue 8 19:45 A Leicester City FLC W 3-1 19,349

Sat 12 15:00 A Doncaster FLC L 0-1 9,572

Sat 19 15:00 H Reading FLC D 1-1 14,366

Sat 26 13:00 A QPR FLC L 1-2 13,534

Mon 28 15:00 H Watford FLC D 2-2 16,035

January

Tue 12 19:45 H Cardiff City FACP D 1-1 7,289

Sat 16 15:00 H Preston FLC W 4-2 13,146

Tue 19 19:45 A Cardiff City FACP L 0-1 6,731

Tue 26 19:45 H Cardiff City FLC L 0-6 13,825

Sat 30 15:00 A Middlesbrough FLC D 0-0 17,865

2 wins, 4 draws and 4 defeats. Significantly worse.

We have been not winning because we have an unbalanced, unconsistent side most weeks. Bringing LJ back is not going to help us.

LJ & Hartley are probably our most consistent players, Hartley being consistently better, of course.

[Guest BCFC_CR33DY]

Hope he goes back out on loan on Monday.

[Nibor]

LJ & Hartley are probably our most consistent players, Hartley being consistently better, of course.

LJ has been anything but consistent this season IMO. He improved briefly in November but that was short lived and other than that he's been fairly poor from the games I've seen both home and away.

Maynard, Haynes, Skuse, Hartley and Gerken have all been more consistent (yes I know your good game bad game theory with Skuse but on the evidence of my eyes it's plain wrong).

Bottom line though is that Lee Johnson can't be used in a starting XI in any way which is going to improve us beyond the options we already have available so he should have been allowed to pursue a move at Derby.

[Alex_BCFC]

Form since LJ was dropped:

Tue 8 19:45 A Leicester City FLC W 3-1 19,349

Sat 12 15:00 A Doncaster FLC L 0-1 9,572

Sat 19 15:00 H Reading FLC D 1-1 14,366

Sat 26 13:00 A QPR FLC L 1-2 13,534

Mon 28 15:00 H Watford FLC D 2-2 16,035

January

Tue 12 19:45 H Cardiff City FACP D 1-1 7,289

Sat 16 15:00 H Preston FLC W 4-2 13,146

Tue 19 19:45 A Cardiff City FACP L 0-1 6,731

Tue 26 19:45 H Cardiff City FLC L 0-6 13,825

Sat 30 15:00 A Middlesbrough FLC D 0-0 17,865

2 wins, 4 draws and 4 defeats. Significantly worse.

In terms of points that is 10 points from 10 games. 1 point a game. The stats I quoted were equal to 1.15 points a game. I would not call that significant but similar. As I said before LJ being in the team or out of the team makes no difference.

LJ is anything but consistent. He has one good game before 4 bad ones.

[mindjuicer]

LJ has been anything but consistent this season IMO. He improved briefly in November but that was short lived and other than that he's been fairly poor from the games I've seen both home and away.

Suffice it to say that I don't ever expect you to change your opinion so there's not really much point discussing it with you.

Maynard, Haynes, Skuse, Hartley and Gerken have all been more consistent (yes I know your good game bad game theory with Skuse but on the evidence of my eyes it's plain wrong).

Yes, Skuse broke his good game bad game pattern with 2 good performances in a row, drawing with Cardiff, and Preston. Unfortunately, those were the last times Skuse had a good game.

Agree with Maynard and Haynes being consistent.

Bottom line though is that Lee Johnson can't be used in a starting XI in any way which is going to improve us beyond the options we already have available so he should have been allowed to pursue a move at Derby.

How do you know he wasn't? LJ is a good option on the bench especially when Hartley can't play 3 full games a week. He's also a good option if we don't properly recover from our 6-0 drubbing.

[redsrus]

Illogical decision by an increasingly clueless manager.

[mindjuicer]

In terms of points that is 10 points from 10 games. 1 point a game. The stats I quoted were equal to 1.15 points a game. I would not call that significant but similar.

It's about 7 points a season and probably the difference between playoffs and midtable this year.

[Back of the net]

LJ is the only midfielder we have who picks the ball up from our centre halfs, and then starts to build play. At the moment our long ball is partly down to the fact that once the ball gets rolled back to Carey & Fontaine it gets launch aimlessly up field. We then loose posession around 85% of the time.

This doesn't happen so much with LJ in the team. The downside to him playing is that because of this he lies deep and with Hartley or Skuse at the other central midfield player, we have no forward movement from midfield.

LJ is suited to playing in a 3 man central midfield with one ball winner (i.e. Skuse, Elliot) and another spare midfielder. That's why most of our success has come in a 4-5-1 formation.

Until we get more cultured centre backs, we will continue to struggle to play good football in a 4-4-2 formation - watch how many long hoofs carey and fontaine play. At the moment we need a 3 man central midfield or we just get overun.

[Alex_BCFC]

It's about 7 points a season and probably the difference between playoffs and midtable this year.

Eh? I you get 1 point a game you will be on 46 points and 1.15 you will be on 52.9. Sounds more like the difference between getting relegated and staying up to me.

But as I said before starting with or without LJ makes no difference- he isn't better than the 5 other CM's we have. It is other things that have made our results generally poor this season.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

I think Garys plan has worked a treat, the focus is clearly off the old useless dwarf and back on the younger smaller dwarf!

[The Casual Connoisseur]

That was a joke by the way, he's not a dwarf

[redthru]

For a central midfield player he can't tackle, he can't head a ball, he can't score goals and rarely creates an opening for a goal. So why do we want someone who can't offer this when we have Sno, Hartley, Skuse, JCR, Haynes, Williams and Elliott?

Redthru

[Alex_BCFC]

For a central midfield player he can't tackle, he can't head a ball, he can't score goals and rarely creates an opening for a goal. So why do we want someone who can't offer this when we have Sno, Hartley, Skuse, JCR, Haynes, Williams and Elliott?

Redthru

Erm because he is able to collect the ball from the defence before passing it back to them or sideways or give it away. DURR!

[mindjuicer]

Eh? I you get 1 point a game you will be on 46 points and 1.15 you will be on 52.9. Sounds more like the difference between getting relegated and staying up to me.

Same difference.

But as I said before starting with or without LJ makes no difference- he isn't better than the 5 other CM's we have.

Better in some situations, worse in others.

It is other things that have made our results generally poor this season.

Again I have to disagree. There is a strong correlation between the performance of our CMs and our results whilst I'm guessing there is zero correlation wrt 4-3-3 vs 4-4-2.

[Bris Red]

Until we get more cultured centre backs, we will continue to struggle to play good football in a 4-4-2 formation - watch how many long hoofs carey and fontaine play. At the moment we need a 3 man central midfield or we just get overun.

Im glad somebody else pointed this out, the defence suprisingly is were i think the route of a lot of the problems come from. We all know Mccalister is Mr hoof ball and Orr is no better, Carey rarely plays the simple ball and goes long to often, Fontaine is the only defender i can think of at the club that can start an attack with a good ball on the deck to pick out a midfielder.

Personally this is why i think and always have thought that LJ is a handy player to have. Yes he dosnt score tackle head blah blah, but he is always avaliable to recieve the ball and feed the more skifull CM's we have in Hartley Sno etc.

Many will disagre with me im sure but in all honesty LJ is a a good ''club'' to have in the bag i think, certainly untill we can get in some full backs and defenders that have the ability to not always go long.

[Alex_BCFC]

Again I have to disagree. There is a strong correlation between the performance of our CMs and our results whilst I'm guessing there is zero correlation wrt 4-3-3 vs 4-4-2.

You honestly think that our central midfield is at fault for us being so poor? Worrying.

[Nibor]

Suffice it to say that I don't ever expect you to change your opinion so there's not really much point discussing it with you.

Yes well, I think you'd find if you looked back at my posts over LJ's time here that I praised and defended him for the first two seasons - you know - when he was good. The last season and a half he's been completely ineffective. I've changed my opinion once based on evidence and I'd do so again if there was any evidence.

Yes, Skuse broke his good game bad game pattern with 2 good performances in a row, drawing with Cardiff, and Preston. Unfortunately, those were the last times Skuse had a good game.

I don't agree the pattern existed in the first place.

How do you know he wasn't? LJ is a good option on the bench especially when Hartley can't play 3 full games a week. He's also a good option if we don't properly recover from our 6-0 drubbing.

I know he wasn't because we recalled him, if he was allowed to stay he would have - it would have meant a good chance at a 3 year contract on more money.

LJ isn't a good option from the bench because he doesn't change games, you wouldn't bring him on to try and grab a winner or make a lead safe. If Hartley were to need a rest then I'd suggest that Sno and Williams both bring everything to the table LJ does plus more.

[Nibor]

There is a strong correlation between the performance of our CMs and our results whilst I'm guessing there is zero correlation wrt 4-3-3 vs 4-4-2.

Even if your view of CM performances were objectively true, and there was such a correlation, that doesn't mean a causal relationship.

It's fairly straightforward to understand that if the defence hoof the ball all the time the central midfield will have no opportunity to affect the game, if they have no options on they won't be able to pick out good passes, and if a defensive error puts us behind they will be forced to chase the game.

You can't take such a simplistic view of the game, it's the team as a whole that needs looking at. It's a clear lack of balance and resulting narrow games that have cost us points. It's at the root of most of the obvious symptoms.

[Riaz]

Scratching my head here....

Lee Johnson was doing well there and we all know how our fans get on his back...

with things not going well here, he brings him back here, which will a) aggravate those fans on gj's back and b) it would have been good for lee's own career to stay - playing well, without fans on his back and proving he does not need 'daddy'

When he went on loan, i thought, best move for all parties... now he's back and I feel its the worst for all concernced.

[mindjuicer]

You honestly think that our central midfield is at fault for us being so poor? Worrying.

Wow, you combined a strawman and ad-hominem argument with a passive aggressive attack in 2 sentences, neither of which are proper English.

Are you disputing the correlation?

Every single first team player has been rubbish at some point. Whilst poor form seems to spread from player to player, I'd say CM is a particularly important position.

[Alex_BCFC]

Wow, you combined a strawman and ad-hominem argument with a passive aggressive attack in 2 sentences, neither of which are proper English.

Are you disputing the correlation?

Every single first team player has been rubbish at some point. Whilst poor form seems to spread from player to player, I'd say CM is a particularly important position.

I'm sure you understood what I said- and you seemed to reply OK to it. I don't think you have read most of the English on here if you are criticising mine. Quite patronising really.

I wouldn't disgaree that CM is an important position. I just don't happen to believe that our CM's have much to do with how poor we have been especially when Skuse and Hartley have been two of our best players this season and have started most games. How about an unsettled formation/team, unbalanced without width, wingers etc. Those are far more important.

[Martyn Hocking]

It's an emotive topic but in the most basic terms the way I see it is this:

If we play with Lee Johnson in a 3-man central midfield we are setting ourselves out to retain possession, keep the game tight and hope to sneak a 1-0.

If we play with Hartley + Skuse in a two-man central midfield we are setting ourselves out to attack, spread the play wide and hope we score more than the opposition.

Clearly the latter is more exciting but also more risky. Does Gary want to take risks right now? Really depends whether in his heart of hearts he is more concerned about getting relegated than promoted come May.