Are They Afraid...

[spudski]

Does anyone else feel that the players are afraid of our manager? For fear of losing their place in the team.

From what i have observed, it seems the players are afraid to play in a way, where they can express themselves and play to what is in front of them.

They seem to hesitate, as if they are thinking 'My natural instinct is telling me to make this action', but they hesitate as if thinking 'I've been told by the gaffer to do this'.

By doing the latter, the boss can never critisise, because they have carried out his game plan. But in many matches this season, the players seem afraid to move out of their aloted zone, play a more advantagious ball, or try something unusual.

It's just something i've observed and has become more apparant of late.

[Redcliffe 78]

Does anyone else feel that the players are afraid of our manager? For fear of losing their place in the team.

From what i have observed, it seems the players are afraid to play in a way, where they can express themselves and play to what is in front of them.

They seem to hesitate, as if they are thinking 'My natural instinct is telling me to make this action', but they hesitate as if thinking 'I've been told by the gaffer to do this'.

By doing the latter, the boss can never critisise, because they have carried out his game plan. But in many matches this season, the players seem afraid to move out of their aloted zone, play a more advantagious ball, or try something unusual.

It's just something i've observed and has become more apparant of late.

Natural instincts is to as you have been told? No natural instincts is what you have through your body. Remember fellow DIEHARDS players can get rid of managers are THEY doing this?.

[leedsred]

Does anyone else feel that the players are afraid of our manager? For fear of losing their place in the team.

From what i have observed, it seems the players are afraid to play in a way, where they can express themselves and play to what is in front of them.

They seem to hesitate, as if they are thinking 'My natural instinct is telling me to make this action', but they hesitate as if thinking 'I've been told by the gaffer to do this'.

By doing the latter, the boss can never critisise, because they have carried out his game plan. But in many matches this season, the players seem afraid to move out of their aloted zone, play a more advantagious ball, or try something unusual.

It's just something i've observed and has become more apparant of late.

I should bloody hope they are scared of him - think Clough, Ferguson, Shankly... from what I've read pretty much every player who played under these greats were terrified of them!

[Pezo]

Does anyone else feel that the players are afraid of our manager? For fear of losing their place in the team.

From what i have observed, it seems the players are afraid to play in a way, where they can express themselves and play to what is in front of them.

They seem to hesitate, as if they are thinking 'My natural instinct is telling me to make this action', but they hesitate as if thinking 'I've been told by the gaffer to do this'.

By doing the latter, the boss can never critisise, because they have carried out his game plan. But in many matches this season, the players seem afraid to move out of their aloted zone, play a more advantagious ball, or try something unusual.

It's just something i've observed and has become more apparant of late.

As long as they are afraid of losing then GJ has done something right.

[Roger Red Hat]

As long as they are afraid of losing then GJ has done something right.

Yes,we're really benefitting from that now aren't we?

[eskay]

I should bloody hope they are scared of him - think Clough, Ferguson, Shankly... from what I've read pretty much every player who played under these greats were terrified of them!

He's not quite up with those 3 yet!!

[spudski]

I should bloody hope they are scared of him - think Clough, Ferguson, Shankly... from what I've read pretty much every player who played under these greats were terrified of them!

Clough, Ferguson and Shankly were 'Greats' and there in lies the difference.

They were/are, also great man managers. However...Each player was individually managed, whether it needed a kick up the arse or an arm around the shoulder. Great managers, find what motivates a player, and works on that, for the Teams advantage.

I'm under the impression that GJ works on reverse Psychology and allegedly 'Bully Boy' tactics. Very one dimentional.This imho, doesn't make him a great manager.

Meantime... The point i was trying to make was, this 'fear', is not allowing the players to play to their natural ability.

Each player in our squad, on their day, has got an abundant amount of talent(some more than others). It seems to me they are afraid to 'express' themselves, that comes naturally to a player, during the heat and battle of a game.

It's bad enough for the players having the pressure of finding that next win and the 'fans' on your back, but with the added 'fear' of making a move on the pitch, which the Gaffer won't like, is only adding to their problems.

Like i mentioned before, it seems our players, often 'check' themselves, often hesitating, before making a natural pass that would unlock the opposition. It's ok to have a game plan, but often an individual piece of flair will bring big dividends. It seems to me we have lost that in our team. For fear of going off the game plan...who knows?

[Nibor]

I should bloody hope they are scared of him - think Clough, Ferguson, Shankly... from what I've read pretty much every player who played under these greats were terrified of them!

I'd suggest terrified of letting them down not plain terrified of them.

I'm sure in their ire those characters are quite scarey but to be able to get away with a hairdryer your players have to have a lot of respect for you already. They have to believe you know better than them.

[spudski]

I'd suggest terrified of letting them down not plain terrified of them.

I'm sure in their ire those characters are quite scarey but to be able to get away with a hairdryer your players have to have a lot of respect for you already. They have to believe you know better than them.

Exactly...

[SC_Red]

I'd suggest terrified of letting them down not plain terrified of them.

I'm sure in their ire those characters are quite scarey but to be able to get away with a hairdryer your players have to have a lot of respect for you already. They have to believe you know better than them.

And maybe believe that if you let them down its you who will lose your job not the manager?

[Nibor]

And maybe believe that if you let them down its you who will lose your job not the manager?

I don't think that's that important personally.

A manager can't drop/sell every player so if he's giving the hairdryer to the whole team that's not going to be effective.

The players need to understand what is being asked of them and why otherwise any bollocking will be felt to be unfair.

[Spud55]

I'd suggest terrified of letting them down not plain terrified of them.

I'm sure in their ire those characters are quite scarey but to be able to get away with a hairdryer your players have to have a lot of respect for you already. They have to believe you know better than them.

I don't know, Clough was a particularly scary bugger, but commanded enormous respect, not sure any other manager would have got away with smacking Keane round the chops.

But the best managers know their players games inside out and let them play to their strengths, they didn't try to change players they let them play their game, and more often than not if you allow a player to play their natural game and play to that they will normally improve on their own, Johnson makes players worse, afaik we have only moved Carle on at a profit, and out of our current squad we are probably looking at Fonts and Skuse who we could sell on for a profit at the moment.

[Smokey]

an ex-player said that you had to have a really good 1st 45 or johnson would either rip into you or take you off at half time and a few of the players were finding it hard

[Nibor]

an ex-player said that you had to have a really good 1st 45 or johnson would either rip into you or take you off at half time and a few of the players were finding it hard

Well that's clearly not true because I can count the number of times he has made half time subs on my fingers and I'm not even a Gashead.

[Smokey]

Well that's clearly not true because I can count the number of times he has made half time subs on my fingers and I'm not even a Gashead.

sorry, didnt check my post before i posted it. it should of said threatend with

[Kid in the Riot]

The general premis of the City management team is good cop (Millen), bad cop (Johnson).

[Smokey]

What is wrong with that ??? Damn right they should get a bllcking if they are playing poor.

If i turn up for work and don't do fk all morning, I,m sure my boss would say Get off your slack ass or f@2k off pls.

Why should footballers be any different ?

i agree with you, as long as its for the right reasons

[SuperRed]

What is wrong with that ??? Damn right they should get a bllcking if they are playing poor.

If i turn up for work and don't do fk all morning, I,m sure my boss would say Get off your slack ass or f@2k off pls.

Why should footballers be any different ?

Whilst sometimes it may be necessary for Johnson to give players a bollocking, top managers such as Wenger have the knowledge to tell their players what they should be doing to play better in the second half, rather than shouting at them for playing poorly. If there is a tactical issue its not going to be resolved by someone getting a bollocking.In my opinion I doubt whether Johnson has the ability to do this. Sometimes players need a bit more than just to be shouted at.

[leedsred]

Whilst sometimes it may be necessary for Johnson to give players a bollocking, top managers such as Wenger have the knowledge to tell their players what they should be doing to play better in the second half, rather than shouting at them for playing poorly. If there is a tactical issue its not going to be resolved by someone getting a bollocking.In my opinion I doubt whether Johnson has the ability to do this. Sometimes players need a bit more than just to be shouted at.

I think Wenger works on a different type of model, almost one of an uncle figure rather than the strict disciplinarian type of your Ferguson etc.

Johnson appears to be a bit old school British, and I don't mean that as any disrespect. Bigging up the players when he wants to, but also quite happy to let them have it with both barrels.

On the subject of Clough I remember chatting to a journo who works in Nottingham and recalled a time with John Robertson when they were talking in the car park after many years after he'd retired.... Clough strode by and shouted something to them and the journo turned round and Robertson was almost cowering behind the car.... he claimed Clough still frightened the life out of him and many of the ex-pros who played under him!! I'm pretty sure Fergie's ex-pros would say something similar.

By the way enjoying this non slagging interesting topic.

[Cyderman]

I think Wenger works on a different type of model, almost one of an uncle figure rather than the strict disciplinarian type of your Ferguson etc.

Johnson appears to be a bit old school British, and I don't mean that as any disrespect. Bigging up the players when he wants to, but also quite happy to let them have it with both barrels.

On the subject of Clough I remember chatting to a journo who works in Nottingham and recalled a time with John Robertson when they were talking in the car park after many years after he'd retired.... Clough strode by and shouted something to them and the journo turned round and Robertson was almost cowering behind the car.... he claimed Clough still frightened the life out of him and many of the ex-pros who played under him!! I'm pretty sure Fergie's ex-pros would say something similar.

By the way enjoying this non slagging interesting topic.

Boo! Johnson's an idiot! ^$^&$ happy clappers!!

Seriously though, I do think Johnson has what could be called an 'old school' style of management, which maybe some players don't appreciate. One thing I would mention though is how under Wilson and Tinnion it seemed every week there were stories about our players smoking, fighting, and falling out of nightlcubs in the early hours, and maybe a bit of the 'fear factor' was needed in order for Johnson to crack down on this. Whether or not his management style is right for us now, it was defininetly what we needed back then- I guess that, in the same way he's looked tacticaly naive this season, it might be that this style of man management isn't really what's needed when making the step up to the championship.

On a side note- Brian Clough always furiously denied that his players were scared of him, saying they couldn't play football the way he wanted if they were scared. There's a difference between demanding respect and being a tyrant.

[i remember dickie rooks]

Like i mentioned before, it seems our players, often 'check' themselves, often hesitating, before making a natural pass that would unlock the opposition. It's ok to have a game plan, but often an individual piece of flair will bring big dividends. It seems to me we have lost that in our team. For fear of going off the game plan...who knows?

Probably for fear of getting a collective groan and some personal abuse from the crowd

[Roger Red Hat]

Like i mentioned before, it seems our players, often 'check' themselves, often hesitating, before making a natural pass that would unlock the opposition. It's ok to have a game plan, but often an individual piece of flair will bring big dividends. It seems to me we have lost that in our team. For fear of going off the game plan...who knows?

Probably for fear of getting a collective groan and some personal abuse from the crowd

Not to mention the management!

[bcfcas1]

It is very interesting that Johnson has put together a group of players over the years with a strong emphasise on 'battling'. We have never been a 3-0 4-0 5-0 kind of team, even when we were winning. Its always been 1-0 2-1 here and there.

That is why I don't understand why all the players have collectively lost their bottle. Orr, Carey, Elliot to name a few??

The conclusion has to lie at the feet of the manager, does he still have them on his side? Its not about being scared, its about respect, do they respect him or his judgement?

[Nogbad the Bad]

That is why I don't understand why all the players have collectively lost their bottle. Orr, Carey, Elliot to name a few??

The conclusion has to lie at the feet of the manager, does he still have them on his side? Its not about being scared, its about respect, do they respect him or his judgement?

I'm not convinced by your conclusion.

Whether or not they like, respect, or have faith in the manager - whether they are 'on his side' as you put it, or not - every player has a fundamental duty to give 100% for the club, the shirt and the fans once they get out on the pitch.

Anything less is inexcusable and intolerable.

The players you name, and one or two others, must pull their fingers out tonight and leave absolutely no shadow of a doubt in anyone's minds as to their total commitment to BCFC.

This comes down to personal pride, a sense of duty, and being focussed on the job, and that's got very little to do with who the manager is.

[bcfcas1]

I'm not convinced by your conclusion.

Whether or not they like, respect, or have faith in the manager - whether they are 'on his side' as you put it, or not - every player has a fundamental duty to give 100% for the club, the shirt and the fans once they get out on the pitch.

Anything less is inexcusable and intolerable.

The players you name, and one or two others, must pull their fingers out tonight and leave absolutely no shadow of a doubt in anyone's minds as to their total commitment to BCFC.

This comes down to personal pride, a sense of duty, and being focussed on the job, and that's got very little to do with who the manager is.

I agree entirely with you. These guys are (generally) very professional and very committed to BCFC, that is what has led me to question why everything is going so wrong on the pitch and why so many are playing with this apparent lack of commitment at times? And that is why I believe that GJ should be taking responsibility.

[Nogbad the Bad]

I agree entirely with you. These guys are (generally) very professional and very committed to BCFC, that is what has led me to question why everything is going so wrong on the pitch and why so many are playing with this apparent lack of commitment at times? And that is why I believe that GJ should be taking responsibility.

Sorry bcfccas1, but if they're playing with 'an apparent lack of commitment at times' then that is the responsibility of the individual players themselves.

They are answerable to you and me, and the club, as well as the manager.

If any player's commitment was measured by how much they like GJ then how long before a few decide they don't like/respect the next manager and their commitment drops off again?

There's a fundamental level of commitment required for the shirt and the fans, no excuses.

We may well need a new manager with more experience, superior tactics etc., but the reason for change shouldn't be that the players might find it within themselves to try harder for him - that would simply mean those players were not giving their all now and therefore have no commitment to the club or the fans.

[Bodiesaffer]

Johnson is a bully fact. And the players seem that they have had enough. You can't bully people 24 7 or in the end they will tell you to $$$$ off.

Thats the reason we've lost players in the past not that there not good enough, because of his man management tactics.

I've been thinking for some time now that he's not the man for the next level. Unless he changes his ways.

Johnson needs to remember that the team can get ridd if that's what they want. they've done it before.

[bcfcas1]

Sorry bcfccas1, but if they're playing with 'an apparent lack of commitment at times' then that is the responsibility of the individual players themselves.

They are answerable to you and me, and the club, as well as the manager.

If any player's commitment was measured by how much they like GJ then how long before a few decide they don't like/respect the next manager and their commitment drops off again?

There's a fundamental level of commitment required for the shirt and the fans, no excuses.

We may well need a new manager with more experience, superior tactics etc., but the reason for change shouldn't be that the players might find it within themselves to try harder for him - that would simply mean those players were not giving their all now and therefore have no commitment to the club or the fans.

Yes, as I said the first time, I agree. Every player who puts on the shirt has to commit 110% to the team. But they are not, and its not just a few, its almost a majority. So my point is, as before, why?? As in everyday working life, you may love working for the company you do, but you don't work well with your line manager. Your morale and workrate will drop. Sometimes its harder to see the bigger picture. Every great manager is a great leader, sending you out to battle with the confidence you have the means to win. I believe the players are being sent out to battle without the means to win, and they know it.