Interesting Article On City

[nebristolred]

Don't Cardiff pay Chopra £30k per week as well as Wittingham being on around 12k and Boothroyd on 15k. Ok they have a smaller squad but surely their wage bill is higher ??

Their wage bill will be well above ours. £30k a week sounds a bit high though tbh. That sounds about half of what our wage bill was in League One!

[Kid in the Riot]

[Nibor]

I'm sure I remember reading that Cardiff's wage bill was around £11 million for the 2008/09 season, definitely larger than ours was.

According to Deloitte's 2009 review of football, the total sum spent on wages in The Championship in the 2007/08 season was £291 million. That puts the average wage bill at over £12 million... I assume that figure would have risen last season and this season, so to me our £8 million budget doesn't seem that high. Of course the likes of Birmingham, Sunderland, West Brom will have pushed that average wage bill up with figures over £20 million I'd imagine.

Cardiff's wage bill you quote was speculative and for the business as a whole not split down like ours is - it includes all the non football staff which ours doesn't. Ridsdale is on something like £750k a year plus bonuses for example. 30k for Chopra is obviously make believe. It will not be above ours this season at all.

The Deloitte average is a mean of the total wage bills (both football and other staff), the mean is massively distended by the clubs on parachute payments and the like. Having less of a wage bill than the mean does not mean we are bottom half spenders and that is not true.

Our wage bill last season was £10.2m if you include the 52 non football staff (£8.6m for football only). If you want to compare that Sheffield Wednesday had a total wage bill of £8.1m. That we spend 25% more than a club of that size who had a 21.4k average home attendance should tell you in very clear terms just how far we are pushing it investment wise.

This season it will be £11-12m for the football side and £12.5-13.5m total in my opinion and will be comfortably in the top ten. Look at the players in and out - figure a 5k a week gross average, add some on for total cost of employment (pensions, EC to NI etc) and it's fairly obvious.

I will amend one thing though, I looked Watford up and must admit to being shocked at how absolutely ****** they are. Their wage bill is DOWN to £13m from around £15m. That shocked me since they have never been a big club and it's no wonder they were in trouble this season with it being the first one with parachute payments gone.

[Ian M]

The following table was taken from a story on the Official Sheffield Wednesday site bestowing their position as one of the Championship's lowest wage payers (It refers to last season):

Est player wage bill

Club

( P ) £10m plus Birmingham

( P ) £10m plus Wolves

£10m plus Sheff Utd

£10m plus Derby

£10m plus Ipswich

£10m plus Reading

( R ) £10m plus Charlton

£10m plus QPR

£8m - £10m Coventry

( P ) £8m - £10m Burnley

£8m - £10m Nottm Forest

( R ) £8m - £10m Norwich

£8m - £10m Watford

£8m - £10m Swansea

£8m - £10m Cardiff

£5m - £8m Crystal Palace

£5m - £8m Preston

( R ) £5m - £8m Southampton

£5m - £8m Bristol City

£5m - £8m Doncaster

less than £5m Plymouth

less than £5m Barnsley

less than £5m Blackpool

[Tom Fleuriot]

Can't this all be looked up in Companies House accounts? I'm not volunteering mind.

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

Cardiff's wage bill you quote was speculative and for the business as a whole not split down like ours is - it includes all the non football staff which ours doesn't. Ridsdale is on something like £750k a year plus bonuses for example. 30k for Chopra is obviously make believe. It will not be above ours this season at all.

Not being picky but Risdale paid himself 1M plus bonuses and Chopra is on 25k not the 30k that i sadi earlier. That is fact, also a couple of years ago they were also paying Hasslebank and Fowler 30k a week each ! so i would be supprised if their wage bill was lower than ours

[Red_Mat]

The following table was taken from a story on the Official Sheffield Wednesday site bestowing their position as one of the Championship's lowest wage payers (It refers to last season):

Est player wage bill

Club

( P ) £10m plus Birmingham

( P ) £10m plus Wolves

£10m plus Sheff Utd

£10m plus Derby

£10m plus Ipswich

£10m plus Reading

( R ) £10m plus Charlton

£10m plus QPR

£8m - £10m Coventry

( P ) £8m - £10m Burnley

£8m - £10m Nottm Forest

( R ) £8m - £10m Norwich

£8m - £10m Watford

£8m - £10m Swansea

£8m - £10m Cardiff

£5m - £8m Crystal Palace

£5m - £8m Preston

( R ) £5m - £8m Southampton

£5m - £8m Bristol City

£5m - £8m Doncaster

less than £5m Plymouth

less than £5m Barnsley

less than £5m Blackpool

That I can believe.

However, I would have thought we've risen a number of places this season given the number of foreign and expensive signings, doubled with the fact a lot of those clubs above us (Watford, Palace, Coventry) seem to suffering massive financial problems at the moment and are desperately trying to get rid of players.

That said, we're probably mid-table in wages and definitely mid-table on points. Isn't that about right?!

[Nibor]

The following table was taken from a story on the Official Sheffield Wednesday site bestowing their position as one of the Championship's lowest wage payers (It refers to last season):

Yes and the last time that got posted I pointed out why it was bollards.

That article is from March 09 and shows very vague estimations of wage bill brackets based on 07/08. Accurate would not be the word.

During 07/08 season our footballing wage bill was £6.87m.

Last season it was £8.65m.

Bear in mind as well that most clubs do not separate footballing and non footballing as clearly as we do - there's another £1.6m to add to each of those numbers for the staff costs from the Stadium company and for some clubs that will have been included.

I don't know why people are so keen to insist that we're some sort of minnow club, the facts are otherwise and you can see that logically by looking at the wage bill last season and the staff changes since.

Wait and see the accounts in the autumn.

Can't this all be looked up in Companies House accounts? I'm not volunteering mind.

I've looked at all the accounts that clubs themselves have published, some more can be gleaned from companies house at a cost but this is tricky because they aren't obliged to break down the figures conveniently nor is the ownership of some clubs clear.

Not being picky but Risdale paid himself 1M plus bonuses and Chopra is on 25k not the 30k that i sadi earlier. That is fact, also a couple of years ago they were also paying Hasslebank and Fowler 30k a week each ! so i would be supprised if their wage bill was lower than ours

Unless you've seen a wage slip that is all just mere speculation. Ridsdale's salary and bonus as I posted them are public record from him answering an AGM question. The rest is guesswork, not fact at all.

[Ian M]

I don't know why people are so keen to insist that we're some sort of minnow club, the facts are otherwise and you can see that logically by looking at the wage bill last season and the staff changes since.

Wait and see the accounts in the autumn.

I don't know why other posters reply in kind but I can explain why I occasionally do.

Back towards the start of the season I believe it was you who "estimated" that we "might" be in the top 8 payers in this division. You are an intelligent individual & have a very confident posting style so if you report something many people will take it as read that you are correct.

At this point we are remembering that this is your estimate.

This is read & repeated by many users. "I remember reading that we are amongst the top 8 payers in the division". It is not fact, yet some report it as such.

Trusting individuals then read that and again believe it to be true.

It is even distorted by other users. "I've read that we're in the top 6 payers in this division".

This raises expectation levels. If we are amongst the top 8 payers in the division then why aren't we in the top 8?

I know, let's sack Johnson.

Ok, it's not as clear cut as that but it is a contributory factor.

I have lost count of the number of times I have read that we are amongst the top 8 payers in this division. This has never been established as fact.

I realise that I am repeating myself a lot here but I am hoping to get the message across that City being amongst the top 8 payers in this division is an estimate, not a fact.

[Nibor]

I don't think I've ever been anything but clear on the difference between fact and my guess or estimate. If you think the estimate is wrong I'd like to hear why. If you think people need reminding that it's an estimate I'm sure you can do so without posting misleading information with incorrect context.

[Simon79]

Absolutely spot on. Good read with some interesting points.But most of all, ABSOLUTE COMMON SENSE!!! MORE PLEASE

[Atticus]

The following table was taken from a story on the Official Sheffield Wednesday site bestowing their position as one of the Championship's lowest wage payers (It refers to last season):

Est player wage bill

Club

( P ) £10m plus Birmingham

( P ) £10m plus Wolves

£10m plus Sheff Utd

£10m plus Derby

£10m plus Ipswich

£10m plus Reading

( R ) £10m plus Charlton

£10m plus QPR

£8m - £10m Coventry

( P ) £8m - £10m Burnley

£8m - £10m Nottm Forest

( R ) £8m - £10m Norwich

£8m - £10m Watford

£8m - £10m Swansea

£8m - £10m Cardiff

£5m - £8m Crystal Palace

£5m - £8m Preston

( R ) £5m - £8m Southampton

£5m - £8m Bristol City

£5m - £8m Doncaster

less than £5m Plymouth

less than £5m Barnsley

less than £5m Blackpool

But looking at that, we would be muh higher then that now.

Birmingham, Wolves, Charlton, Burnley, Norwich and Southampton are gone. Thats six places. Granted Newcastle, West Brom and Middlesborough would be above.

Reading sold Alot of players and my guess would be lower, Watford are consistently trimming their wage bill.

Surely from our transfer activity in the summer onwards our wage bill would be much higher and is it not plausible this could of jumped us above the likes of Palace, Swansea, Preston, Cardiff Coventry?

I know nothing about financial accounts etc but we certainly aint 5th bottom anymore.

[Ian M]

Cardiff's wage bill you quote was speculative and for the business as a whole not split down like ours is - it includes all the non football staff which ours doesn't. Ridsdale is on something like £750k a year plus bonuses for example. 30k for Chopra is obviously make believe. It will not be above ours this season at all.

The Deloitte average is a mean of the total wage bills (both football and other staff), the mean is massively distended by the clubs on parachute payments and the like. Having less of a wage bill than the mean does not mean we are bottom half spenders and that is not true.

Our wage bill last season was £10.2m if you include the 52 non football staff (£8.6m for football only). If you want to compare that Sheffield Wednesday had a total wage bill of £8.1m. That we spend 25% more than a club of that size who had a 21.4k average home attendance should tell you in very clear terms just how far we are pushing it investment wise.

This season it will be £11-12m for the football side and £12.5-13.5m total in my opinion and will be comfortably in the top ten. Look at the players in and out - figure a 5k a week gross average, add some on for total cost of employment (pensions, EC to NI etc) and it's fairly obvious.

I will amend one thing though, I looked Watford up and must admit to being shocked at how absolutely ****** they are. Their wage bill is DOWN to £13m from around £15m. That shocked me since they have never been a big club and it's no wonder they were in trouble this season with it being the first one with parachute payments gone.

Looking at the permanent ins against the outs, my own estimate is that:

-Hartley & Adebola will have actually been on similar wages

-Gerken & Weale will have actually been on similar wages

-Blackman was only here for a couple of months and comparing him to a year of Myrie-Williams would show a saving

-Clarkson & McIndoe will have been on similar wages

-I believe a full season of Murray would cancel out JCR

-the combined costs of Iriekpen & John would match Haynes.

This leaves us stumping for Nyatanga (60% covered by Noble's exit?) and the loans.

I believe you have posted that the last accounts showed us to have a footballing wage bill of around £8.65m.

To get to £11m annual spend we'd have to increase our bill by £2.35m or £45k a week.

We're saving some on Trundle & pennies on the youth loanees.

I honestly can't see us paying full whack for the wages of Sno, Saborio, Velicka etc as clubs in this division rarely do. Would SL authorise us doing this while everyone who signs a player on loan from us gets a discount?

So I'm left wondering whether 40% of Nyatanga plus the loan signings equates to £50k every week of the year?

[thefirstknowle]

You'd be very surprised how high up the wage table we are.

Clubs that pay less are:

Swansea

Leicester

Cardiff

Blackpool

Coventry

Barnsley

Doncaster

Watford

Preston

S****horpe

Sheffield Wednesday

Palace

Plymouth

Peterborough

We're likely to be spending about the same as Ipswich and Derby - around the £11-12m mark on payroll.

We spent £8.6m in 08-09 and since then we've brought in:

Sno

Hartley

Clarkson

Haynes

Nyatanga

Gerken

Velicka

JCR

Saborio

Agyemang

We've done a few contract renewals and the only real earners to move on were John, McIndoe and Adebola.

We are also fairly big spenders on transfers.

The data on other clubs is out there if you go hunting with google.

1. I doubt this is correct but lets say it is.

2. We have only just dropped out of the top 10 for the first time in a long time in one of the closest leagues ever, so what is your point? We are surely, indisputably, in and around where we should be if we follow the argument about wages????

I like the original article.

Win or lose today, I'm still clapping and happily so.

[Nibor]

Looking at the permanent ins against the outs, my own estimate is that:

-Hartley & Adebola will have actually been on similar wages

-Gerken & Weale will have actually been on similar wages

-Blackman was only here for a couple of months and comparing him to a year of Myrie-Williams would show a saving

-Clarkson & McIndoe will have been on similar wages

-I believe a full season of Murray would cancel out JCR

-the combined costs of Iriekpen & John would match Haynes.

This leaves us stumping for Nyatanga (60% covered by Noble's exit?) and the loans.

I believe you have posted that the last accounts showed us to have a footballing wage bill of around £8.65m.

To get to £11m annual spend we'd have to increase our bill by £2.35m or £45k a week.

We're saving some on Trundle & pennies on the youth loanees.

I honestly can't see us paying full whack for the wages of Sno, Saborio, Velicka etc as clubs in this division rarely do. Would SL authorise us doing this while everyone who signs a player on loan from us gets a discount?

So I'm left wondering whether 40% of Nyatanga plus the loan signings equates to £50k every week of the year?

I would guess with Sno, Saborio and Velicka we're looking at 8-10k a week each. I'm sure Velicka and Sno would be in the £15-20k range at their own clubs and Saborio we agreed a fee for so we will be paying his full wages.

I'd guess Haynes (who you've missed out), Gerken, Nyatanga, JCR are all £5-6k a week as they're all players we signed for a fee with Championship experience.

Clarkson maybe a little more as his fee was much larger.

Murray was on £2.8k a week (was mentioned in court). Noble I believe was on league one money still and I'm not sure Weale was on more than league one money either since he hadn't made much of a contribution.

We have also done extensions for players like Sproule, Wilson and McCombe who will all have gone from £2-3k a week to £5k or so IMO. We're also paying for a full season of Styvar not just half (in fact maybe two as we've now paid him off).

Then remember that all these numbers are gross and cost of employment is about a third again on top.

Looking at the squad differences between 07-08 and 08-09 where the wage bill rose by nearly £2m and comparing them to the squad differences between 08-09 and this season I think it's higher than most people would believe.

Anyway, we've got our friendly wager so best of luck.