andy g Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Predictably, this forum is getting on Johnsons back again after another injury-time defeat. He probably deserves some of that flack. However, I'm starting to wonder if the players should be taking more of the blame. Yes, I'm sure they try very hard and care deeply about the club... but as a team they're failing time after time to close out matches. It's probably down to confidence, but someone needs to be picking up and inspiring them to believe again. And I don't think it's enough to blame the manager when they fall to pieces in the final stages of a match - they're all well paid professionals (some of them with international experience) who should have the ability and knowledge of the game to do better. If we do end up keeping Johnson at the end of the season, then I think we'll have to have a clearout in the summer and bring in new players to restore some of the belief within the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 He signs them, he picks them, he decides tactics, he changes the side for changes sake every week. He brings in a different striker every other week,and wonders why the team cant gel ????. Everyone knows a settled side is what we have needed all season but only one person cant see it. Thats why he has to go, then we can get back to being a proper club again and not a laughing stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Edit. Double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Predictably, this forum is getting on Johnsons back again after another injury-time defeat. He probably deserves some of that flack. However, I'm starting to wonder if the players should be taking more of the blame. Yes, I'm sure they try very hard and care deeply about the club... but as a team they're failing time after time to close out matches. It's probably down to confidence, but someone needs to be picking up and inspiring them to believe again. And I don't think it's enough to blame the manager when they fall to pieces in the final stages of a match - they're all well paid professionals (some of them with international experience) who should have the ability and knowledge of the game to do better. If we do end up keeping Johnson at the end of the season, then I think we'll have to have a clearout in the summer and bring in new players to restore some of the belief within the squad. Of course the players should share blame but these days they never do. Always somebody else's fault. As to caring deeply, I see little evidence of that here, or in football generally. Footballers will kiss the badge of whichever club pays the most. There are too many players already under contract that nobody would want, certainly on the same wages (think of the likes of Brian Wilson, Jamie McCombe and Ivan Sproule being given new deals). That, and Johnson's blind loyalty to his players (and Steve's to him) , regardless of performance will, I'm afraid militate against any such clearout. More of the same; just a question of what division we are in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigcheese Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 You could ask some of the players on the bench what they think I suppose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Dazzler Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Predictably, this forum is getting on Johnsons back again after another injury-time defeat. He probably deserves some of that flack. However, I'm starting to wonder if the players should be taking more of the blame. Yes, I'm sure they try very hard and care deeply about the club... but as a team they're failing time after time to close out matches. It's probably down to confidence, but someone needs to be picking up and inspiring them to believe again. And I don't think it's enough to blame the manager when they fall to pieces in the final stages of a match - they're all well paid professionals (some of them with international experience) who should have the ability and knowledge of the game to do better. If we do end up keeping Johnson at the end of the season, then I think we'll have to have a clearout in the summer and bring in new players to restore some of the belief within the squad. Basically the players are playing to get the manager the sack, just plucking out the odd result (West Brom/Palace) to accumulate enough points to stay up. They are almost on a "work to rule" doing the bare minimum but, make no mistake they will not help their careers by being relegated (well a couple of them might). That's what the cynical side of me says. More realistically (sympathetically) they are low in confidence and as nervous as we all are when that injury time board goes up. As seasoned professionals they should be able to see a game out, especially tonight after the tremendous effort of overturning a 2 goal lead - you would think they would have the guts and professionalism that it takes to kill a game, but they clearly don't Ultimately though, it is the manager to blame - we have been regularly shipping late goals for almost 12 months now. GJ has previously stated that it seems whatever players are on the pitch they can't seem to stop it happening - clearly something else needs to change. To put it another way, I know Tony Pulis was not particularly admired when he was here - but does anyone think he (or any manager worth his salt) would tolerate such a lack of guts and professionalism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Blame the ref and lino. I'm still fuming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Predictably, this forum is getting on Johnsons back again after another injury-time defeat. He probably deserves some of that flack. However, I'm starting to wonder if the players should be taking more of the blame. Yes, I'm sure they try very hard and care deeply about the club... but as a team they're failing time after time to close out matches. It's probably down to confidence, but someone needs to be picking up and inspiring them to believe again. And I don't think it's enough to blame the manager when they fall to pieces in the final stages of a match - they're all well paid professionals (some of them with international experience) who should have the ability and knowledge of the game to do better. If we do end up keeping Johnson at the end of the season, then I think we'll have to have a clearout in the summer and bring in new players to restore some of the belief within the squad. It must be the players fault - Johnson says it is so it must be right. Nothing at all to do with his formations/tactics/selections and style of play. The bottom line is that it always the managers fault when results start to suffer. In Johnsons case, he's signed most of the players, coaches them most days, outlines the tactics and so on. If they are not playing for him then thats because, like the fans they have lost faith in him. Time to for him to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 It must be the players fault - Johnson says it is so it must be right. Nothing at all to do with his formations/tactics/selections and style of play. The bottom line is that it always the managers fault when results start to suffer. In Johnsons case, he's signed most of the players, coaches them most days, outlines the tactics and so on. If they are not playing for him then thats because, like the fans they have lost faith in him. Time to for him to move on. Its an easy line to trot out the players are not playing for him bulls*it, they clearly are as they came back from 2 down. I agree that its Garys team so he will pay for this with his job but the players are to blame for the late goals we have conceded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman-is-god Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Predictably, this forum is getting on Johnsons back again after another injury-time defeat. He probably deserves some of that flack. However, I'm starting to wonder if the players should be taking more of the blame. Yes, I'm sure they try very hard and care deeply about the club... but as a team they're failing time after time to close out matches. It's probably down to confidence, but someone needs to be picking up and inspiring them to believe again. And I don't think it's enough to blame the manager when they fall to pieces in the final stages of a match - they're all well paid professionals (some of them with international experience) who should have the ability and knowledge of the game to do better. If we do end up keeping Johnson at the end of the season, then I think we'll have to have a clearout in the summer and bring in new players to restore some of the belief within the squad. The manager is judged on results, thats why. We all praised him to the hilt when we were good, and he deserved that acknowledgment in the same way that he deserves the criticism now we are total shite. 10 wins this season is a joke, he has to take responsibility, it's called being accountable for your results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinman-is-god Posted March 16, 2010 Report Share Posted March 16, 2010 Its an easy line to trot out the players are not playing for him bulls*it, they clearly are as they came back from 2 down. I agree that its Garys team so he will pay for this with his job but the players are to blame for the late goals we have conceded. Has nothing to do with us sitting back on leads against sides like Peterborough and S****horpe when we are ahead at home then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 If they are not playing for him then thats because, like the fans they have lost faith in him. If any players are not playing for Gary Johnson then they are not playing for us, or the club. We must be rid of players who only play if they feel like it, or for the manager only if they like him. If a new manager comes in these individuals might decide they don't want to play for him either - remember Benny's first few games? Hopefully a new man will have been watching us in anticipation of taking over so will be aware of exactly who these players might be, and would drop them immediately and move them out of the club asap. The possibility that certain players may not be giving 100% for the shirt and the fans makes me far more angry than any of GJ's failings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 If any players are not playing for Gary Johnson then they are not playing for us, or the club. We must be rid of players who only play if they feel like it, or for the manager only if they like him. If a new manager comes in these individuals might decide they don't want to play for him either - remember Benny's first few games? Hopefully a new man will have been watching us in anticipation of taking over so will be aware of exactly who these players might be, and would drop them immediately and move them out of the club asap. The possibility that certain players may not be giving 100% for the shirt and the fans makes me far more angry than any of GJ's failings. Good point well made. If they were remotely professional and mature (the latter in particular a rarity in footballers) and had any self respect who the manager is would be irrelevant once they were on the field. I've had good and bad bosses over the years but it has never crossed my mind not to do my best because I didn't rate the boss. Why should it be any different in football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 If any players are not playing for Gary Johnson then they are not playing for us, or the club. We must be rid of players who only play if they feel like it, or for the manager only if they like him. If a new manager comes in these individuals might decide they don't want to play for him either - remember Benny's first few games? Hopefully a new man will have been watching us in anticipation of taking over so will be aware of exactly who these players might be, and would drop them immediately and move them out of the club asap. The possibility that certain players may not be giving 100% for the shirt and the fans makes me far more angry than any of GJ's failings. Have you ever worked for a boss who you didn't respect and whose style of management you didn't like? If you have, were you able/willing to work to your full potential? No? Same at a football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Like I said in another thread, we don't know all the facts amd so are guessing at whats likely. It must be a combination of a lot of things. But I don't think it can only be about confidence. As another postster has already said last night we clawed our way back from 2-0 down, so it should have been Plymouth looking unsteady. We should have had the confidence, experience and desire to go for the win, or at least hang on. We did neither. I can't believe we faltered because we had a man sent off, either that or I am vastly underrating JCR as he must hold the team together. I don't think anyone is blameless, but like I said we don't know what the relationship is really like between players and coaching staff, or coaching staff with eachother. Are they allowed or expected to express their opinions in a constructive way. How much input does anyone have other than Gary. We just don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted March 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Have you ever worked for a boss who you didn't respect and whose style of management you didn't like? If you have, were you able/willing to work to your full potential? No? Same at a football club. I'd hope the players would be a bit more professional and responsible than that. There are probably some jobs where you can afford to turn up and put in a below-par performance, just to spite the manager. But, would the same be true of soldiers ? Or airline pilots ? Would you be happy to go under the knife if you were told the surgeon who was about to operate on you didn't feel like working "to his full potential" ? I think the same should apply to football players - they can't afford to just turn up and go through the motions, just because they've fallen out with the boss. Sometimes you have to be a bit more grown up than that. And if the players weren't giving 100% for the manager, then they weren't just letting down Johnson - they were letting down the fans and the football club. I don't think you can really make excuses for that, no matter how disenchanted they were with the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Interesting comments in Millen's interviews about how his number one task is to get the players together again. They have no excuses now he says. So let's see what they can do Saturday, hope SL watches them closely and bombs out any that aren't pulling their weight for this football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomBCFCUK Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 You cant really blame the players as they didnt want to play for the manager? Plus people like clarkson, Hartley wasnt even getting a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markman Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 what is the point in still trying to blame anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 what is the point in still trying to blame anyone? The OP started this thread last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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