8 Honourable Men

[fatman]

100% agree - i was there in'82, stood on the crumbling terrace at Newport thinking it could be the last ever City game.

Today players could afford to do what the 8 did - but they wouldn't.

Those guys walked with basically nothing. Merrick went off to work as a builder, a couple of the others went to be security guards, a couple went to be postman.

Compare that to the millionaires of today.

To be honest I worry more for the future of BCFC if we get promoted than if we got relegated.

CodeRed

I guess you need to have been there, don't you? Minutes away from oblivion colours your view of the future. I concur with your last comment!

[Jordan Tansley]

Agreed but people who subscribe to skysports are to blame and are under the impression that the premier league has the best players, Which is rubbish over 30 of the top 50 highest earners in the world play in the UK, only about 2 of what you would consider the worlds top 10 best players actually appear in the top 10, Gareth Barry is I believe the 5th highest player in the world, says it all really.

I subscribe to SkySports, and I still don't see how I'm to blame.

People want good sports coverage, I love the fact that I can turn on a championsleage qualifier and learn something about a german and Italian club I might never have seen before.

I love putting the cricket on because I can't afford a season ticket at somerset anymore, So it's nice to keep up with a sport I love.

I like the chance to watch Saints play some Rugger-League.

I pay for that, and Sky pay the relevent people for the rights to show it.

The FA and Football league let the Premier League come about, it's them who are to blame 100%

Like I said, the money isn't the problem, If anything the money is about right, because the customer (me and you, season ticket holders, TV watchers and anyone else who has watched a game) are willing to pay that amount towatch it. the problem is the distribution and use of the money provided.

I don't think Sky pay the money to Scudamore and say... "Right, we dont want any of this being used properly... It should be kept by the big clubs. Ok?"

I think, if idiots and Business men had not got ahold of football as money came into the sport the Sky Money would have been a massive boost for football.

Imagine if the FA could invest such a massive amount in grass roots football, training pitches, high class youth coaching...

Imagine they could do all fo this without any help from the government. Oh what a world we'd live in.

Football has all the right ingredients to be self efficient. Unfortunately the money men got involved and decided 20 clubs should get the lot.

There is a chance things could be fixed. But without FIFA stepping in, which they won't, it's very unlikely.

[fatman]

So sky pay each club 30m each say so they can broadcast their players, why should'nt the players take a decent slice of that?

Why is it just footballers people bang on about, lewis hamilton and jenson button will earn far more than the average player will this year but nobody bangs on about that. sport as a whole is out of control so i dont know why its just footballers that get picked on.

If you dont like it then get rid of sky and stop paying your entrance fee, i shall do neither.

Maybe Hamilton and Button justify their money?

[Economou]

Agree completely, But blaming Sky is Bollocks.

Sky offer us fantastic coverage of a huge array of sporting events, they pay a shit load of money for the privildge of showing us sport...

the problem was the inception of the Premier League. If Sky paid the FA the TV rights then there would be more scope for the funds from it to be used in a much more productive way.

Unfortunately, The FA are now just a name, they have no control over anything.

If football in this country was run properly, we'd see the money made from the TV rights used to better coaching facilities, grassroots football, help keep the finances of the lower league clubs sound.

Instead farcical amounts are thrown into the clubs who need it least... their requirement for teh money is simply to fund their stupidity.

Its ridiculous, but in no way Sky's fault. It's not their fault they have to buy the rights from such a corrupt business as the Premier League.

Sorry Jordan,

It's Sky's baby, Sky/Murdoch planned the Premier League in cahoots with greedy Chairmen of the then Big Five clubs, Sky would have sole broadcasting rights to live matches and it's remained virtually the same since. The value of the rights keep going up, only Murdoch could afford the billions required for the last deal.

The original PL blueprint, soon watered down, was for 18 clubs with the aim of playing fewer, but higher quality, matches thereby improving the quality of the national team.

I'll leave you to make your own mind up about whether that has happened.

[WellRedPhil]

A mixture of the PL and SKY have played a big part. Don't get me wrong my household are Sky subscribers, and I have such a love, almost an addiction for football, that I would not give it up. Likewise with City, I love it far too much to just walk away, but it is evident that both the PL and SKY play a big part in this. Like someone else mentioned, it is not just football, and Formula One racers are payed fortunes even compared to footballers.

They're paid the money because it is generated so quickly and in such high quantities, so it's there to be spent. Of course a player is going to take the highest paid contract he can negoiate, that is to an extent common sense, the problem goes far deeper then players greed. I don't know if the money that is apparent in football will ever decline, or continue rising to new fields, but Murdoch has already taken over the media world, and Scudamore has created a footballing franchise that now dominates the world.

People will never walk away though, because most love football far too much to give it up.

[Rob k]

Maybe Hamilton and Button justify their money?

$19m hamilton got paid in 2009 - is that justified to race a car?

[Davros]

I was there, my friend. Trust me. These guys gave you a football club!

I'm not saying they didnt but I dont think they were as willing or had as much choice as people tend to remember I think it was Rodgers who almost lost everything he had. Admitedly they could have found another club and got paid but it wasnt that easy in the 80's to move from one club to another as there was no bosman or the like rulings mass player movement is very much a modern day thing. The club putting pressure on them and the iminant demise of the club ultimately forced their hand, and not all of them were happy about it as some of the contracts were 10 years. I know what you mean but its a very different world now.

[Banksy]

Maybe Hamilton and Button justify their money?

exactly. they risk their lives to be the best at what they do everytime they go out on track they risk their lives. this justifies their money just about

[fatman]

$19m hamilton got paid in 2009 - is that justified to race a car?

Hmmmm......Aren't they paid on results..... Does the guy finishing 20th every time get that? Bit different and MUCH more dependant on how good you are as an individual.

[Rob k]

Hmmmm......Aren't they paid on results..... Does the guy finishing 20th every time get that? Bit different and MUCH more dependant on how good you are as an individual.

I doubt they are paid on results as Hamilton did not win it, Im just comparing the people at the top of their

[Mr Gow]

Iam getting more and more dissalusioned with football every season now, the prem makes me feel sick to the stomach, which is way i havnt watched a prem game for over 2 yrs now.

Stuff sky sports i cancelled last year and have not missed it one little bit.

On the playing side i take it all modern day players are so much better than those from 70s 80s? my backside are they, but they really think in their poor deluded heads they are.

Greedy horrlble spoilt nasty little individuals, im telling ya i would not urinate on a lot of them if they were on fire (includes some past city primadonnas in that too)

They game i used to love is now totaly unreconisable and im only just hanging in there supporting City FACT

God i pray we never reach the prem i really do, it will be the end of us, quite happy with top 10 in the championship and being entertained, thank God for teams like Donny, they give me some sort of hope

[cole4ord]

Great thread. This thread sums up how I have started to feel about football, mainly prem football, for a while now. The World Cup only served to exacerbate things! As well as the reasons listed above it makes me angry, literally to the point of screaming at my TV, how nearly every footballer playing the game is a dishonest cheat. Diving all over the place, simulating injuries and waving imaginary cards to get others punished, claiming adamantly a throw in/corner is there's when they know (and replays confirm) the ball came off them! It's says a lot about these men (and I use the word loosely) that play the game! I'm not some old chap that just talks about the good old days. I'm only 26 but am becoming so dissalusioned with the game and what it's becoming that I regularly wish I could leave it behind! It's only my love of it when the above don't exist (very rare) that stops me doing so!

Rant over!

[Meh]

Whilst it is the Sky money that has ruined the game, you cannot blame people for subscribing to the sports package.

I orignally subscribed to sky sports years ago for football - pure and simple.

Now, I may watch two games a month at most as i'm bored completely by all of it, including City, hence, why I didn't renew this year (and before somebody says "if you are bored with City, why you on here" - my wife bores me some times but I still love her and i''m only on here about once per year).

However, I choose not to be without :- England Cricket, Darts, Golf, Rugby League and International Rugby Union so I have to subscribe as the licence fee or freeview will guarantee me about 5% maximum of the live coverage available with Sky Sports.

It's a shame that somebody can't plant a seed at Sky HQ to change the names of their sports channel and have a couple dedicated purely to football.

We would all then be able to un-subscribe and keep the channels showing the (so-called) lesser sports.

Truth is though; the people at Sky aren't stupid and will be fully aware of the populas who are falling out of love with the game and that is why they will keep showing major football games on Sky Sports 1 and only sell sports packages that must include that channel.

So, I will continue to subscribe until the 5% live coverage of the sports I do like reaches a more appropriate level outside of sky sports.

[simonwheeler]

I really do have to agree with a great deal of the sentiments already expressed in this excellent thread. The sort of salaries being quoted for even "average" players is just OBSCENE. Blackpool's chairman quit yesterday for allegedly refusing to pay £10K a week to a player who has yet to even make his first team debut!!! Now if this has got a G of T then I have every admiration for Owen Oyston as someone has got the conviction of his principles.

But two other points that personally I feel are even more important:-

1. I urge all of us to take a few seconds to compare these totally obscene weekly / monthly / annual salaries to what our brave soldiers overseas are being paid, our emergency services, our health workers, etc. etc. Surely in a "proper" world it would be these fine people who actually contribute a DIRECT contribution to all of our society's (unlike footballers who technically provide an undirect contribution as technically they are classed as being in the entertainment industry). For instance my good lady has just left to go to work at one of Bristol's largest hospitals and will have the responsibility over the next eight hours for the health and well being of up to 30 other women and babies (She is a ward manager) but she will not earn in 12 months what your AVERAGE Premier League player earns in a week and what responsibility does the footballer have, is he looking after people regularly in a life and death type situation - certainly not. Also I know that there are even more worthy comparison examples that I could make?

and

2. Can we really blame the players? Personally I seriously think NOT? Again I would ask all of you fine fellow BCFC supporters to consider the following:- Most professional footballers leave school / education with minimal qualifications. Not necessarily because they have a limited IQ or are not clever but generally for a player to make it to professional level they have had to spend so much of their time during their formative years training, honing their skills and actually playing that actually there is little time left for academic study, so generally exam results reflect accordingly? Now all of a sudden these guys whose only opportunity to make a half decent living due to their lack of formal qualifications on their CV's are suddenly put in a position where some football chairman / administrator are placing contracts in front of them which carry a salary that 99% of us on OTIB will only ever be able to dream about, for doing a "job" that really is their life and hobby, then seriously what would YOU do??? Really its a no brainer if we are honest.

I know 100% from at least one former BCFC player that he actually agrees with a lot of our sentiments, that yes the salaries being paid to both himself and his fellow players are obscene, but, he actually asked me "That if the roles were reversed and suddenly somebody offered me £8K a week (His salary at the time) then what would I say?" I think I took a mega second to think about that one!!!

So my second point is I seriously dont think that to much blame should be directed towards the players themselves, no, in my humble opinion the blame lies with some wealthy foreign "investors", some chairmen and some football administrators whop are the ones who are actually placing these contracts on the table.

Unfortunately sadly we have now gone so far down the road whereby salaries / contracts are spiraling totally out of control for example a very average "squad" player from Barcelona in Toure can demand and GET a salary of £220K a week, so presumably the next similar average squad player to leave the Spanish or Catalan shores to join some other Premier League side in the UK will demand (and most probably be awarded) just a little bit more? Its the theory of "If someone / some company comes 'head hunting' you, then the natural reaction is to open wage negotiations with a figure slightly higher than what you are actually looking for and then hopefully agree on a figure that realistically you will be happy with?" So as every man and his dog now know that our friend Mr.Toure (who is not even a regular international) earns £220K a week, the next bod will probably open negotiations at a cool quarter of a million big ones per week and the spiral thus continues...........

In conclusion my view is that yes football today cannot be fairly compared to the famous days when the likes of Sir Geoffery Merrick, Julian Marshall, Chrissie Garland, Taints, etc. (And yes I was also standing in the rain on that terrace at Somerton Park, Newport on that fateful day when we could of at the time been possibly witnessing the last ever competitive game of Bristol City) courageously saved our club by tearing up their contracts. These were real working class guys like you and I who didnt need agents or drive top of the range motors. No these were real men being paid real wages to provide all of us with REAL FOOTBALL.

Have a good and safe day - Thanks for reading.

[ralphindevon]

I dropped Sky 8 months ago, do I miss the Premier league? Not one bit. Do I miss the other football, cricket, golf? Yes big time.

I think that says it all, the Premier league has lost so much appeal to a lot of proper football fans.

If only cricket and Ryder cup golf would come back to terrestrial I would be very happy.

As it is I'm struggling without it.

[jimtastic]

Brilliant thread.

Over the summer, despite the excitement about Coppell etc, I found myself questioning whether I wanted to buy a season ticket or not. TBH, it's probably only the fact that I'm "City 'til I die" that I did. I don't feel the same affinity with the team that I once did, I don't enjoy it as much as I once did, it's massively overpriced and all about who spends the most money.

Who's nurturing the next generation of Bristolian players (let alone the English?) You could argue the academy, but what's their "hit rate"? One in ten? Ten or fifteen years ago, we'd have seen more of them pull on the shirt. But they're dropping out of football in place of overpaid charlies who only give a shit about their weekly wage packet and not the badge.

And what's the point in getting promoted anyway? A year of getting our arses kicked in exchange for more cash that we'll fritter away on ridiculous wages and greedy agents. If we're lucky with the parachute payment, we might raise our "level" a little bit so that we have a slight chance of avoiding relegation if we're lucky enough to make it up again.

As I said in another thread a couple of days ago, football can't carry on like this. I wouldn't be surprised if we were all watching AFC Bristol City in 10-20 years time.

[edit] And let's face it, we're not getting a new stadium because it'll be a nice shiny new place to watch the footie. It's all about increasing revenue which will ultimately mean more coming out of our pockets and more going into the pockets of agents and players.

[miketh2nd]

To be fair I'm suprised it's taken this long for a thread like this to come up, although i did get shot down by the majority on here when I suggested not being promoted to the Premier League and not being ambitious! I Wasn't even born 1982! but can't thank those guys enoguh for saving our club, it is a different society and age but I doubt you'd see any of the top 4 team players suddenly saying how we'll live on say 5 grand a week( still plenty) to save the debts of the club... also about the use of agents would love if more players just realised agents are just there for their own greed fair play to Nicky Maynard and his Mum i say.

I grew up thinking the priemiership was the best league in the world but as I have grown it has got more and more corrupt, it is just a franchise now. I wouldn't mind if the FA just let the premier league be its own stand alone league or to be a super league. If we could just start our own English league again wage caps,maxium wage valuation . You see some of the premier league chairmen bemoan about all the money around the premier league Wigan's Whelan comes to mind but none can stop it as most premier leagues are now just business's, money has got way too inflated. It is such a sad sight to see football go this way but money always does get the better of people.

[grifty]

Iam getting more and more dissalusioned with football every season now, the prem makes me feel sick to the stomach, which is way i havnt watched a prem game for over 2 yrs now.

Stuff sky sports i cancelled last year and have not missed it one little bit.

On the playing side i take it all modern day players are so much better than those from 70s 80s? my backside are they, but they really think in their poor deluded heads they are.

Greedy horrlble spoilt nasty little individuals, im telling ya i would not urinate on a lot of them if they were on fire (includes some past city primadonnas in that too)

They game i used to love is now totaly unreconisable and im only just hanging in there supporting City FACT

God i pray we never reach the prem i really do, it will be the end of us, quite happy with top 10 in the championship and being entertained, thank God for teams like Donny, they give me some sort of hope

Every single player in the premier league is a 'greedy horrible spoilt nasty individual' are they? say 40 players (including youth) for each club, 20 teams, 800 players.

You've met every single player and every single one of them was a 'greedy horrible spoilt nasty individual'?

If none of you like football why are you on a football forum?

It's not the players fault at all. Ok, 1 in 15 or so may get a bit too big for his boots and sign a deal where he'll never end up playing 1st team football (all these kids who go play for Chelsea 3rds)

But not a single one of you would turn it down if your company went and offered you £100,00 a year. You'd never say "no, I'll have £20,000, I don't want more money".

And whoever compared the wages from the EPL to american sports made me laugh. If you think footballers are over paid, NFL players earn 20 times as much.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

As I said in a previous thread, The players who would be recognised as at least the top 10 players in the world actually play in either Spain, Italy or Germany and Franck Ribery for instance earns almost half of what John Terry earns, The premier league ends up with what the Americans would call the 2nd and 3rd draft, The premier league ends up with many overpaid sub standard Africans and South Americans and very importantly how many so called top UK players actually play abroad?, None of course because they, the sub standard Africans and the sub standard South Americans are not a) good enough b) would'nt be paid enough (in their opinion).

During the the hideous world cup this year (the worst world cup in my living memory), FIFA had a chance to crack down heavily on cheats and correct obvious injustices where cheats had players booked or sent sent off and chose to do nothing at all in the same way that they have done nothing at all about the disgusting wages these morons earn. FFS we even had the spectacle of a player feigning a convulsion at this so called global soccer fest.

You only have to look at the case of Robinho at Man City to see what happens when you have a multi millionaire footballer who dosen't care whether he plays football again or not and the young guy (19 years old is he) Man City just signed from Inter Milan for an unbelievably excessive fee who at his interview after signing proclaims "I would rather have stayed in Milan than have gone to Manchester" bearing in mind this young guy has already been a barrel load of trouble for Inter Milan, The best of luck to Man City (nah **** em).

So for the Skysports subscribers if your happy watching overpaid, cheating, mainly 2nd rate players diving, rolling around like they have had their testicles ripped off by a rabid dog and when put in a defensive wall to prevent a goal being scored ducking out of the way of the ball because they may lose a modeling contract or won't look so cool when at the next player bonding spit roast session if the bag of wind hits them in the face, Fine.

[CliftonCliff]

This thread is heartening and depresssing in equal measure.

Depressing because of - obviously - the core content, most of which I agree with. The sentiments expressed have been bubbling under the surface on otib for a long time; a number of us have posted brief comments in the same vein, but this is perhaps the first time it has erupted so forcefully. What's happened to the game in this country makes me both sad and angry. I loathe the Premier League with a passion and never watch it. Scudamore in particular disgusts me, though you could argue he is simply very good at his job, which is furthering the interests of the faceless money men behind the PL. The players are not primarily to blame, but it is inevitable that the values of the those behind the League filter through to them and, crucially, their agents, with the result that they have become perhaps the second most despised group of people in the country after politicians. If it's of any consolation, I think you'll find we are in good company, in as much as articles deploring the direction the game has taken now appear quite regularly in the sports pages of the better national newspapers. Many fans all across the country share our feelings and that may in the long run translate into pressure for change.

What's refreshing, though, is that so many of we rank and file supporters are in accord about what's happening and it's good to get a sense for once of an issue bringing people together here instead of dividing us. It's both the principled stance taken by all the contributors and the mutually respectful manner in which the debate has been conducted that is good to see. Along with the outpouring of entirely justified fury about the Sainsbury's thing and also the anger and disappointment caused by Coppell's defection, it seems to be having the effect of creating a feeling of unity here that is often absent. If that harmony can be channelled into some real passion on the terraces at AG on Saturday it will give Millen and the players a terrific lift.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I have to take my hat off to Karl Oysten who quit as chairman of Blackpool this week, citing the disgusting wages and unbelievable bonuses on top of the disgusting wages that persist in the premier league and over the 12.4 million paid to agents of premier league players, that's money lost forever from the game.

Why do players need agents?, are they really so dull and stupid that they can't negotiate their own transfer, it's pathetic.

I find it hard to stomach how people on this forum are prepared to accept the behaviour of the likes of Portsmouth, Palarse and Cardiff, Portsmouth a mickey mouse little club are 130 million in debt. Palarse who still owe 'real people' money are trying to bring in Edgar Davids and Cardiff owe virtually everybody money and are in the high court on a monthly basis but in between the court appearances go out and and sign a host of players that they can't afford and the British legal system allows them to do it, The 3 clubs mentioned are taking the piss (especially Cardiff) it's just crazy.

I know 82 serves as a reminder to us of 'people in glass houses' and all that, FFS that was 28 years ago and should have served as a warning to all 92 clubs what can go wrong if you spend far beyond your means. i'm sorry to say the 2nd best thing that could happen to British football is to see a couple premier league clubs and a couple of wannabe premier league clubs go out of business to serve as a reminder to all 92 clubs, The best thing would be the collapse of sky.

So to Mr Karl Oysten I salute you a real man of principle who so obviously lives in the real world unlike many premier league chairman.

[jimtastic]

I find it hard to stomach how people on this forum are prepared to accept the behaviour of the likes of Portsmouth, Palarse and Cardiff, Portsmouth a mickey mouse little club are 130 million in debt.

But we're doing it too... Not to the same degree, of course, but to the tune of £2m a year IIRC.

This thread has really got me thinking.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

But we're doing it too... Not to the same degree, of course, but to the tune of £2m a year IIRC.

This thread has really got me thinking.

Yes, but have we gone into administration? or have we received any winding up orders? or have we been taken to the high court for non payment?.

No, our position at this present time is totally different, is it sustainable only 2 men know and I suspect it is.

There is no way we can be compared to the 3 clubs I mentioned and several other precariously placed clubs.

[jimtastic]

Yes, but have we gone into administration? or have we received any winding up orders? or have we been taken to the high court for non payment?.

No, our position at this present time is totally different, is it sustainable only 2 men know and I suspect it is.

There is no way we can be compared to the 3 clubs I mentioned and several other precariously placed clubs.

Not having a pop at what you said - just making the point that in our efforts to play catchup, we're losing a lot of money!

My feeling is that it's only sustainable with the new stadium, but some of me is questioning the merits gambling our club's future on playing catch up. Even if we get a shiny new stadium out of it.

Let's say tomorrow that a load of clubs from the Championship downwards decided to break away from the Football League, and in real terms this meant:

We stayed at Ashton Gate (which got a bit of a facelift)

We paid 1/3 of the price for tickets

We got 1/2 the gates we do now

We were playing a competitive league, with the odd game against the Sags/Swindle etc

An affordable squad, including a crop of young, local kids

An individual player wage cap, but we're big-ish fish in the pond squad-wise due to the size of our gates. Maybe the wage cap could factor in a small variance for bonuses bases on average gates, making the larger clubs a (little) bit more desirable.

The inevitable feeling of greater affinity with the club

None of the ridiculous commercial nonsense that's thrust upon us at the moment. Just a pie and a pint, and a not-too-expensive replica shirt.

What would people say to that? It would be a very different Bristol City, but Bristol City none-the-less.

Much as I feel for Wimbledon fans losing their club, I'll bet they've had a brilliant time watching AFC Wimbledon over the past few years.

[exiledinwatford]

Great thread but I think it should be split in two:

The playing side of the game and the commercial side.

On the playing side many have expressed disgust and the diving, cheating, scumbags who act like Bambi on ice whenever they think they can fall over and get a free kick. The same cheats who roll around in agony screaming in pain only to recover in seconds. I share the sentiments and I also seriously considered not renewing again but loyalty prevailed. I also am fed up with the time-wasting that goes on - this is supposed to be a spectator sport where the paying spectators (or even paying TV subscribers) pay to see ninety minutes of action. Why do we have to pay to watch a defensive wall being "built"? Why doesn't the clock stop when the ball is out of play? Why doesn't the clock stop when someone is injured and receiving treatment? If taking the ball into the corner and sheilding it is time-wasting done deliberately to run down the clock WHY am I paying to watch it? So for me on the playing side, cheating and time-wasting need to be addressed to save our game.

Commercially, I believe the problem stemmed from the power of the major clubs demanding more than their share of TV rights. The money should be more evenly distributed. The FA should have stuck to their guns and if the top six wanted to break away and form some circus league with Celtic and Rangers good riddance - easy words from a BCFC supporter but this whole thing has been motivated by greed. And greed is supported by our courts - Portsmouth (owners not fans) financially mis-manage their club and can't pay their debts. They get told-off and are allowed to pay the IR 20p in the £1. Where is the incentive to be a well-run club? Of course, that philosophy is mirrored in private life and todays' generation are the "have-now" "pay later perhaps" generation.

Going to stop now - fed up.....

[Old Dazzler]

Sorry to add a dose of reality to the Ashton 8 fiasco, but the reason we nearly went bust was because of these very players (City legends a few of them had been due to the great days of the late 70s) being on top flight wages playing in a relegation struggle in what is now League1.

It was only when the administrators were called in to save us that they realised they were sucking the life blood out of the club.

We were paying them top flight money on long contracts and they were putting in abysmal performances week in week out. They had no choice but to tear up their contracts, as if the club had gone under they wouldn't have been paid anyway. If these players had been worth what they were on they would have re-started their careers at top flight or at least 2nd flight clubs, wonder why that didn't happen.

I agree with the general concensus about greed in football, but don't use the Ashton 8 at as a shining example of non-greed in football in the "good old days", if we had the situation today where players were taking the mick to the extent that they did there would be uproar.

I guess back in 82 there were no fans forums to debate this so we were drip fed by the media with how heroic these players were, and we were jut glad that BCFC survived, but this was despite, rather than because of, these under-performing players.

[Davros]

Sorry to add a dose of reality to the Ashton 8 fiasco, but the reason we nearly went bust was because of these very players (City legends a few of them had been due to the great days of the late 70s) being on top flight wages playing in a relegation struggle in what is now League1.

It was only when the administrators were called in to save us that they realised they were sucking the life blood out of the club.

We were paying them top flight money on long contracts and they were putting in abysmal performances week in week out. They had no choice but to tear up their contracts, as if the club had gone under they wouldn't have been paid anyway. If these players had been worth what they were on they would have re-started their careers at top flight or at least 2nd flight clubs, wonder why that didn't happen.

I agree with the general concensus about greed in football, but don't use the Ashton 8 at as a shining example of non-greed in football in the "good old days", if we had the situation today where players were taking the mick to the extent that they did there would be uproar.

I guess back in 82 there were no fans forums to debate this so we were drip fed by the media with how heroic these players were, and we were jut glad that BCFC survived, but this was despite, rather than because of, these under-performing players.

At last someone else without rose tinited glasses.

[Davros]

Much as I feel for Wimbledon fans losing their club, I'll bet they've had a brilliant time watching AFC Wimbledon over the past few years.

Indeed that club is a testiment to fan power its only a matter of time until AFC Wimbledon catch up with MK Dons and have to oportunity to do em over

[Esmond Million's Bung]

There is one other very important element to this discussion and that is who is actually fit and proper to own a football club.

Risdale who almost killed off the once mighty Leeds and the never mighty Cardiff, He is a chancer and fantasist, But some owners have a more dubious background like where and how did they earn their wealth? and possible human rights issues, I seem to recall one club actually in discussions with the son of Libya's Gaddaffi and the FA and FIFA and EUFA and more importantly the clubs fans are happy to turn a blind eye to these issues.

[Rob k]

Yes, but have we gone into administration? or have we received any winding up orders? or have we been taken to the high court for non payment?.

No, our position at this present time is totally different, is it sustainable only 2 men know and I suspect it is.

There is no way we can be compared to the 3 clubs I mentioned and several other precariously placed clubs.

Were losing 10m a season, that is only sustainable because we have a rich chairman who is willing to subsidise us - what would happen if he left? Are we any different to portsmouth spending as a club well beyond our means?