Why Did We Ever Get Rid Of Gary Johnson

[WellRedPhil]

Because he'd ran out of ideas, the football was shite, the results were even worse and there were no signs that it was going to get any better. He had to go and it was the right decision to part ways with him. The fact that we have started this season in appalling fashion does not mean that parting ways with Johnson was the wrong decison.

[cidercity1987]

Your either on a wind up or didnt watch us play for 18 months. The bloke lost the plot, lost the players and lost the fans because he was to stubborn to accept he was sometimes wrong. He was outwitted constantly by other coaches (Dave Jones 4 times in a couple months springs to mind!).

He knew he had to go as well and actually stated this when he left.

No I'm not on a wind up- and I did indeed watch the majority of games under Johnson. In fact I remember being slated on here for pointing out the boring football we'd be playing. But the answer never was to sack the manager, and what more proof do you want than the current shenanigans?

He lost the players? Maybe so, but those players aint exactly world beaters right now are they? He lost the fans? Yeah he did, I've already said we're a fickle bunch. He was too stubborn? So what? Constantly outwitted by other coaches? We finished 4th, 10th and 10th during his Championship era so obviously he must have outwitted a few more along the way. Tell me we're gonna finish tenth or higher this season? We won't.

If Millen was to leave I could think of no greater candidate to replace him than Gary Johnson, a man who loves the club, was one of our most successful managers ever and a bloke who has proven pedigree in the Championship.

[WellRedPhil]

No I'm not on a wind up- and I did indeed watch the majority of games under Johnson. In fact I remember being slated on here for pointing out the boring football we'd be playing. But the answer never was to sack the manager, and what more proof do you want than the current shenanigans?

He lost the players? Maybe so, but those players aint exactly world beaters right now are they? He lost the fans? Yeah he did, I've already said we're a fickle bunch. He was too stubborn? So what? Constantly outwitted by other coaches? We finished 4th, 10th and 10th during his Championship era so obviously he must have outwitted a few more along the way. Tell me we're gonna finish tenth or higher this season? We won't.

If Millen was to leave I could think of no greater candidate to replace him than Gary Johnson, a man who loves the club, was one of our most successful managers ever and a bloke who has proven pedigree in the Championship.

There's no way in hell we would've finished 10th last season if he'd have stayed. We were closer to 20th when he left. He had a successful spell here, but it was the right time to leave.

[Melksham Red]

Thats a pretty serious allegation you make there. I do not recall it being in the paper nor a case being brought against the man.

I'd be a little careful about making such remarks in a public place unless you have evidence to back to it up.

It happened and is the reason he left the club, speak to Sproule or any other player that was in the dressing room that night.

After having a brawl with his own player it made his position untenable. Surely anyone can see that regardless if they liked or disliked the man.

[red man dan]

It happened and is the reason he left the club, speak to Sproule or any other player that was in the dressing room that night.

After having a brawl with his own player it made his position untenable. Surely anyone can see that regardless if they liked or disliked the man.

Didn't Sir Alex Ferguson attack Mr Beckham with a football boot? Did his position become untenable? People come to blows on occasions in work situations, especially when there is pressure. But like adults you work it out and if can't be the ones who create the least impact upon the 'whole' are the ones who should be removed. I am of the belief that those who GJ had 'lost' should have been the ones forced to walk and NOT the manager. So GJ had lost the 'some' players in the dressing room? Possibly this is true in fact it is most likely is, but the stubbornness(though I am not sure that is strictly the right word for this part of his personality) of GJ that many have pointed to as a flaw is actually what would have taken him through a difficult period if he had been given the chance. Ferguson and many of the top managers lose it with their players, on the training ground, in the changing rooms, but the best ones are not forced to walk because of it, they are given the leeway because of their previous success and given the chance to remove the 'problem'. GJ should not have been forced to leave, and it is my complete belief that with certain players who may or may not have left already and 80iu5874a couple who may or may not still be at the club moving on in the summer just gone, that we would be in an awful lot better shape than we are now. We had a few seasons worse off than our 4th place first season finish, which was exceptional. GJ had not stripped the club down and rebuilt at the point he left, I think we would have seen him doing this had he stayed, in a similar fashion to how he did when he first took over. In many ways GJ had lost the dressing room when we lost those 9 in a row, or whatever it was, but he gutted that squad and built again, why was he not given a chance to do that again? Breaking a team down and rebuilding it after a certain time is something all manager do, again i'll point to AF as he is the best at this without a doubt. It is at times needed, and required, and a little bit of patience is needed when this happens. We did not show that patience, some of our fans reacted in a terrible fashion, making the pressure on the manager and players considerably higher which did help. Subsequently, the pressure came on the chairmen and he made a decision which given the circumstances was understandable and he can't be blamed. But it is a decision where his hand was forced and which has placed our club in severe danger of wasting all that it achieved over the previous 4 years.

[Melksham Red]

Didn't Sir Alex Ferguson attack Mr Beckham with a football boot? Did his position become untenable? People come to blows on occasions in work situations, especially when there is pressure. But like adults you work it out and if can't be the ones who create the least impact upon the 'whole' are the ones who should be removed. I am of the belief that those who GJ had 'lost' should have been the ones forced to walk and NOT the manager. So GJ had lost the 'some' players in the dressing room? Possibly this is true in fact it is most likely is, but the stubbornness(though I am not sure that is strictly the right word for this part of his personality) of GJ that many have pointed to as a flaw is actually what would have taken him through a difficult period if he had been given the chance. Ferguson and many of the top managers lose it with their players, on the training ground, in the changing rooms, but the best ones are not forced to walk because of it, they are given the leeway because of their previous success and given the chance to remove the 'problem'. GJ should not have been forced to leave, and it is my complete belief that with certain players who may or may not have left already and 80iu5874a couple who may or may not still be at the club moving on in the summer just gone, that we would be in an awful lot better shape than we are now. We had a few seasons worse off than our 4th place first season finish, which was exceptional. GJ had not stripped the club down and rebuilt at the point he left, I think we would have seen him doing this had he stayed, in a similar fashion to how he did when he first took over. In many ways GJ had lost the dressing room when we lost those 9 in a row, or whatever it was, but he gutted that squad and built again, why was he not given a chance to do that again? Breaking a team down and rebuilding it after a certain time is something all manager do, again i'll point to AF as he is the best at this without a doubt. It is at times needed, and required, and a little bit of patience is needed when this happens. We did not show that patience, some of our fans reacted in a terrible fashion, making the pressure on the manager and players considerably higher which did help. Subsequently, the pressure came on the chairmen and he made a decision which given the circumstances was understandable and he can't be blamed. But it is a decision where his hand was forced and which has placed our club in severe danger of wasting all that it achieved over the previous 4 years.

AF didn't attack anyone! He kicked a boot off the floor in frustration and it hit Beckham. An accident and not even close to the same as Johnsons brawl.

Gary Johnson was slowly losing the plot 18 months prior to his dismisal, the footbal was poor the result were not great and to be honest he'd run out of ideals, the pressure was mounting and this obviously came to a head at Plymouth. It kicked right off and alledgely many of the senior players refused to travel back with Johnson or to play for him again. The situation was irreparable, the bloke had just got in to a fist fight with his team,now for you to suggest this was not Johnson fault nor should he of been held accountable for his actions is quite frankly stupid and ridiculous. He had lost the respect of huge sways of the squad and when you consider his strength was man management and motivation is was just impossible for him to continue. It was the end for him and to be frank the end was near regardless of the incident at Plymouth.

Agreed now is not great and we look in genuine trouble but pretending this is due to the Johnson sacking is just clutching at straws, if you want to blame anyone look no further than Coppell. The bloke screwed us over and as left us in a right mess.

I wish Johnson well and would thank the man for getting us into the Championship but the sacking was absolutely the right decision.

[TheresaGreen]

I would like to have seen how far he would have got us with this team.

[lifelong]

Didn't Sir Alex Ferguson attack Mr Beckham with a football boot? Did his position become untenable? People come to blows on occasions in work situations, especially when there is pressure. But like adults you work it out and if can't be the ones who create the least impact upon the 'whole' are the ones who should be removed. I am of the belief that those who GJ had 'lost' should have been the ones forced to walk and NOT the manager. So GJ had lost the 'some' players in the dressing room? Possibly this is true in fact it is most likely is, but the stubbornness(though I am not sure that is strictly the right word for this part of his personality) of GJ that many have pointed to as a flaw is actually what would have taken him through a difficult period if he had been given the chance. Ferguson and many of the top managers lose it with their players, on the training ground, in the changing rooms, but the best ones are not forced to walk because of it, they are given the leeway because of their previous success and given the chance to remove the 'problem'. GJ should not have been forced to leave, and it is my complete belief that with certain players who may or may not have left already and 80iu5874a couple who may or may not still be at the club moving on in the summer just gone, that we would be in an awful lot better shape than we are now. We had a few seasons worse off than our 4th place first season finish, which was exceptional. GJ had not stripped the club down and rebuilt at the point he left, I think we would have seen him doing this had he stayed, in a similar fashion to how he did when he first took over. In many ways GJ had lost the dressing room when we lost those 9 in a row, or whatever it was, but he gutted that squad and built again, why was he not given a chance to do that again? Breaking a team down and rebuilding it after a certain time is something all manager do, again i'll point to AF as he is the best at this without a doubt. It is at times needed, and required, and a little bit of patience is needed when this happens. We did not show that patience, some of our fans reacted in a terrible fashion, making the pressure on the manager and players considerably higher which did help. Subsequently, the pressure came on the chairmen and he made a decision which given the circumstances was understandable and he can't be blamed. But it is a decision where his hand was forced and which has placed our club in severe danger of wasting all that it achieved over the previous 4 years.

Changing Managers does nothing other than unsettle. It is not luck that the 2 most successful Premier League Managers since its inception are also the longest serving.

GJ was always part of SLs long term plan for the club. I believe that SL thought that between them they could guide the club to the PM. When that relationship was broken I suspect it altered SLs feeling towards the club and its fans.Time will tell.

[red man dan]

AF didn't attack anyone! He kicked a boot off the floor in frustration and it hit Beckham. An accident and not even close to the same as Johnsons brawl.

Gary Johnson was slowly losing the plot 18 months prior to his dismisal, the footbal was poor the result were not great and to be honest he'd run out of ideals, the pressure was mounting and this obviously came to a head at Plymouth. It kicked right off and alledgely many of the senior players refused to travel back with Johnson or to play for him again. The situation was irreparable, the bloke had just got in to a fist fight with his team,now for you to suggest this was not Johnson fault nor should he of been held accountable for his actions is quite frankly stupid and ridiculous. He had lost the respect of huge sways of the squad and when you consider his strength was man management and motivation is was just impossible for him to continue. It was the end for him and to be frank the end was near regardless of the incident at Plymouth.

Agreed now is not great and we look in genuine trouble but pretending this is due to the Johnson sacking is just clutching at straws, if you want to blame anyone look no further than Coppell. The bloke screwed us over and as left us in a right mess.

I wish Johnson well and would thank the man for getting us into the Championship but the sacking was absolutely the right decision.

I know he didn't attack him, it was a tongue in cheek comment. However, it IS an example of frustration and an example of how things came to a head that night as if I remember correctly DB never played for Man Utd again, or at least was on his way fairly soon. NOT AF.

The whole incident at Plymouth is hearsay, we have no way of knowing what happened on that night. Personally I would not care if some of the senior players who had thrown their toys out of the pram that night had left and never played for us again. I won't mention names, but we can guess who they were, and quite frankly I would have preferred them to be on their way than GJ. I can't believe that if GJ had acted in the way that you have inferred that he would have got such a magnanimous and grateful farewell from SL, do you? Do you really think SL would have not mentioned as fracas as a key factor? He had no reason to protect or stick up for GJ so why would he choose to completely leave out what, if it had happened, would have been a key issue? I can hardly see the players who allegedly 'came to blows' with GJ being too happy with all the handshakes and thank you's that GJ had on his way out from their on-going employer?

Personally I take the plymouth 'incident' with a large pinch of salt. Anger, a few shoves and handbags maybe but I don't believe it could have been much more serious than that. I'm fairly sure a sacking for gross misconduct and no severance pay would have been in order had such a thing occurred.

[leedsred]

I know he didn't attack him, it was a tongue in cheek comment. However, it IS an example of frustration and an example of how things came to a head that night as if I remember correctly DB never played for Man Utd again, or at least was on his way fairly soon. NOT AF.

The whole incident at Plymouth is hearsay, we have no way of knowing what happened on that night. Personally I would not care if some of the senior players who had thrown their toys out of the pram that night had left and never played for us again. I won't mention names, but we can guess who they were, and quite frankly I would have preferred them to be on their way than GJ. I can't believe that if GJ had acted in the way that you have inferred that he would have got such a magnanimous and grateful farewell from SL, do you? Do you really think SL would have not mentioned as fracas as a key factor? He had no reason to protect or stick up for GJ so why would he choose to completely leave out what, if it had happened, would have been a key issue? I can hardly see the players who allegedly 'came to blows' with GJ being too happy with all the handshakes and thank you's that GJ had on his way out from their on-going employer?

Personally I take the plymouth 'incident' with a large pinch of salt. Anger, a few shoves and handbags maybe but I don't believe it could have been much more serious than that. I'm fairly sure a sacking for gross misconduct and no severance pay would have been in order had such a thing occurred.

I know this thread is barely worth it as it is all history - but bare with me to get to my final point.

At the time I said Johnson was half way through turning this club from a new Championship side punching above it's weight to an established Championship club which was pushing for the PL.

Some of our fans, for various reasons, lost the bottle - their negativity gained popularity when we went through a tough period. Johnson was trying to keep the club going and in the division while the contracts ran down for quite a number of the squad so that there could be a new team brought in.... he was never given time to finish that.

The blame is solely with us the fans for not having the trust...... mind you there's the possibility of learning from history..... we now have to support the people trying to clear up the mess that Steve Coppell left behind.... but the question is.... have we learnt!??!

[Economou]

I know he didn't attack him, it was a tongue in cheek comment. However, it IS an example of frustration and an example of how things came to a head that night as if I remember correctly DB never played for Man Utd again, or at least was on his way fairly soon. NOT AF.

The whole incident at Plymouth is hearsay, we have no way of knowing what happened on that night. Personally I would not care if some of the senior players who had thrown their toys out of the pram that night had left and never played for us again. I won't mention names, but we can guess who they were, and quite frankly I would have preferred them to be on their way than GJ. I can't believe that if GJ had acted in the way that you have inferred that he would have got such a magnanimous and grateful farewell from SL, do you? Do you really think SL would have not mentioned as fracas as a key factor? He had no reason to protect or stick up for GJ so why would he choose to completely leave out what, if it had happened, would have been a key issue? I can hardly see the players who allegedly 'came to blows' with GJ being too happy with all the handshakes and thank you's that GJ had on his way out from their on-going employer?

Personally I take the plymouth 'incident' with a large pinch of salt. Anger, a few shoves and handbags maybe but I don't believe it could have been much more serious than that. I'm fairly sure a sacking for gross misconduct and no severance pay would have been in order had such a thing occurred.

Quite agree with this & your previous comment.

Even after the Plymouth game, which we could well have won, we were only 15th & still 7 pts off the drop zone. No doubting we would not have gone down.

I think GJ is an extremely good manager, look at what he's doing at the Posh now.

[Melksham Red]

Personally I take the plymouth 'incident' with a large pinch of salt. Anger, a few shoves and handbags maybe but I don't believe it could have been much more serious than that. I'm fairly sure a sacking for gross misconduct and no severance pay would have been in order had such a thing occurred.

I guess we have different expectations in the standards of behaviour expected from a football manager. There a world of difference between a heated exchange and fighting.

If you choose to believe the Plymouth incident never happened then fine, its not for me to try and persuade you otherwise.

[Ashton Kate]

The answer is quite simple he had come to the end of his time at the club. he had done well in the first 3 years working with League 1 players. The wheels came off when he started to bring in championship players

Step back a bit if Holloway had been our manager at the start of last season where we have finished? Both Holloway and Atkins operated on a fraction of the money GJ received from SL they are much better managers at this level than GJ.

Look at the money wasted on Trundle Styvar and Clakson when wages are taken into account this must approach 5 million. Maynard was the 3rd choice after Moteab (heard a lot about him lately havent we??) Mifsud (whats he been doing recently?) and given the sort of bids we are getting for Maynard now c £3million he was overpriced at 2.25 million when purchased (and to annoy others was wasted in his first year here by being partnered with Adebola 10 goals with Adebola double without tells its own story)

When this years accounts are produced the losses for the 3 chamption years under GJ will approach 20 million. 20 million 5 years in the job to produce the team that KM inherited last March and people still think he was a "city legend"

Loan players were used in place of our academy graduates (this costs SL £1 million a year to run wasted if players arent given a chance).

Players played out of position unbalanced team the defence not strengthened (with the exception of Nyatanga who looks as dependable as some of our recent recruits)

The fact that the team needed rebuilding quickly (especially with Bradley and PH leaving after GJ) meant that whoever was in in charge would struggle until the team gelled.

Add a manager who doesnt beleive in preseason then leaves, and the uncertainty about the new stadium these are the real reasons we have a problem now GJ did well in league 1 took that team to edge of the premier but despite loads of money could not take the next step

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: could not have put it better meself.

[Pete1975Legend]

I agree I think GJ should have stayed personally and the players that were disruptive moved out, thats the problem with football today PLAYERS have to much influence.

[Spud55]

I know this thread is barely worth it as it is all history - but bare with me to get to my final point.

At the time I said Johnson was half way through turning this club from a new Championship side punching above it's weight to an established Championship club which was pushing for the PL.

Some of our fans, for various reasons, lost the bottle - their negativity gained popularity when we went through a tough period. Johnson was trying to keep the club going and in the division while the contracts ran down for quite a number of the squad so that there could be a new team brought in.... he was never given time to finish that.

The blame is solely with us the fans for not having the trust...... mind you there's the possibility of learning from history..... we now have to support the people trying to clear up the mess that Steve Coppell left behind.... but the question is.... have we learnt!??!

Sorry but WTF ?

How exactly does 12 wins in 50 competitive games in any way indicate that we were turning into a side that was capable of anything other than pushing for relegation, which is exactly where we were heading last season under Johnson, his time had come, it happens to most managers at some point when for reasons unknown it just stops working.

For the first 3 season it was largely working, there were cracks there but as we were doing well we largely ignored them, johnson had a fantastic motivational style, just the right mix of the hair dryer treatment and encouragement, towards the end though it was just the rants left, and any manager will tell you that when thats all you have got left it just wont work, you cant just berate people all the time as you will loose their respect and they just will not work for you, the players didn't make a concious decision to go out and be crap for Johnson, but because they couldn't respond to his constant barracking of them they just didn't go that extra mile anymore, we were going out week after week as if we were playing clevedon town in the FA cup, no footballer ever goes out to not try, but just like when teams play against a side of much lower stature and ability there is a subconcious decision made to take it easy, it's not deliberate it's just the way a human brain works, and this is true not just for Football managers it goes for any manager in any job anywhere.

The people comparing this to the AF boot incident, there is a difference, that was an accident, this was basically a bloody brawl. and SAF is probably the greatest manager to ever have walked on this earth, love him as much as i do GJ is not.

[eskay]

For those who need reminding:

Lest we forget

[leedsred]

Sorry but WTF ?

How exactly does 12 wins in 50 competitive games in any way indicate that we were turning into a side that was capable of anything other than pushing for relegation, which is exactly where we were heading last season under Johnson, his time had come, it happens to most managers at some point when for reasons unknown it just stops working.

For the first 3 season it was largely working, there were cracks there but as we were doing well we largely ignored them, johnson had a fantastic motivational style, just the right mix of the hair dryer treatment and encouragement, towards the end though it was just the rants left, and any manager will tell you that when thats all you have got left it just wont work, you cant just berate people all the time as you will loose their respect and they just will not work for you, the players didn't make a concious decision to go out and be crap for Johnson, but because they couldn't respond to his constant barracking of them they just didn't go that extra mile anymore, we were going out week after week as if we were playing clevedon town in the FA cup, no footballer ever goes out to not try, but just like when teams play against a side of much lower stature and ability there is a subconcious decision made to take it easy, it's not deliberate it's just the way a human brain works, and this is true not just for Football managers it goes for any manager in any job anywhere.

The people comparing this to the AF boot incident, there is a difference, that was an accident, this was basically a bloody brawl. and SAF is probably the greatest manager to ever have walked on this earth, love him as much as i do GJ is not.

First of all I've not compared and never would Ferguson with Johnson. So far as to say both are strict disciplinarians.

So that out of the way let me reply to your points.

I'm afraid I feel like there was a bigger picture that your missing... rightly or wrong that's my opinion. Yeah at the end he was giving the stick to much to players who needed a carrot. MY point being, that you seem to have missed, there was un-nessessary negativity coming from a vocal minority of City fans. Again you might not think it was a minority but for every City fan that wanted GJ gone I bet I could find 2 that wanted him to stay.

I have my own issues with GJ.... mainly his lack of faith in the youth players the club produced.

But I absolutely believe that Johnson was running down the contract of quite a few of the players as he knew they weren't up to standard. If you re-read what I originally said - I said the team was over achieving in the previous years and the team needed rebuilding so it became a team that was pushing for the PL. I believed GJ DESERVED the chance rebuild that team - that's all.

BUT like I said.... my main point is that we have to learn to give Millen time to turn around the mess that has been left by Cop Out Coppell.