Spare A Thought For Plymouth

[The Red Planet]

Putting our long standing local rivalry to one side, no true football fan wants to see league clubs going bust. PAFC seem to be in deep trouble.

Their director's have pulled a rabbit out of the hat previously. Can they do it again ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/p/plymouth_argyle/9254059.stm

The fact that Peter Risdale is involved in the rescue effort does not fill me with confidence.

[Kid in the Riot]

Good. W@nkers.

Sad, bitter fans like Swindon. Can't say I've ever met a decent Argyle fan so **** 'em.

[Barrs Court Red]

+1

[Esmond Million's Bung]

No sympathy i'm afraid, it seems they gambled everything on our world cup bid, when the rest of the football world knew that the FIFA mafia and the Russian mafia had already had it sewn up.

[_Bristol-City_]

I agree with the first reply.

They are all so up there own arses.

There 3-2 win vs us at there place was there win of the season .

[CiderArmyy]

I have a feeling we would be in a similar position to them if we go down. I hope they survive.

[Monkeh]

never want to see a club go under be it swindon the gas or anyone sad state football is in at moment

[Esmond Million's Bung]

What I find extraordinary is 'spare a thought for Plymouth Argyle', why does nobody ever say "spare a thought for the local business's" who will not be paid meaning some business's might go under or some real people might lose their jobs.

[The Red Planet]

What I find extraordinary is 'spare a thought for Plymouth Argyle', why does nobody ever say "spare a thought for the local business's" who will not be paid meaning some business's might go under or some real people might lose their jobs.

Fair comment EMB. I am not suggesting that the club has been well managed recently and, if they do go down, yes many local traders will suffer and that would be sad.

Their fans are questioning about £5M of so called "operating expenses" which have been paid out for unspecified goods or services over the past two years. Something not right there.

All I am saying is that it would be unwelcome to see a league club close, however if they do go, I fear there will be a few more to follow. There are dozens of league clubs (including our own) losing serious money every year.

Unless a club has one or more wealthy owners prepared to cover the losses in one way or another, then in the end, the business runs out of cash and either their bankers or HMRC will usually be first to instigate a winding-up order.

Maybe this will result in a complete overhaul of the crazy economics of football in the 21st Century.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Fair comment EMB. I am not suggesting that the club has been well managed recently and, if they do go down, yes many local traders will suffer and that would be sad.

Their fans are questioning about £5M of so called "operating expenses" which have been paid out for unspecified goods or services over the past two years. Something not right there.

All I am saying is that it would be unwelcome to see a league club close, however if they do go, I fear there will be a few more to follow. There are dozens of league clubs (including our own) losing serious money every year.

Unless a club has one or more wealthy owners prepared to cover the losses in one way or another, then in the end, the business runs out of cash and either their bankers or HMRC will usually be first to instigate a winding-up order.

Maybe this will result in a complete overhaul of the crazy economics of football in the 21st Century.

What I find offensive is that as soon as a club comes out of administration, the first thought is signing more players and so the cycle starts again.

Over 90% of any clubs expenditure is wages i'm sorry that is unsustainable, in the real world people are losing jobs, business's are closing, services are being scaled down and there is no sign that players wages are going anywhere other than up, you only have to look at match of the day or the championship show, grounds are no where near as full as they should be, the game has become immoral in the amount of wages paid out to these mainly chavs for kicking a bag of wind around and FIFA's handling of the world cup bid proves how low the beautiful game has been allowed to sink.

I understand everything you say however fans at some clubs really need to ask themselves one question do we want success or A CLUB, if it's A CLUB then expect a lower standard of football.

Also you only have to look at FC Wimbledon and their supporters to see how little the football authorities think of football fans, the decision to award Milton Keynes with the Wimbledon franchise was scandalous and political

[The Hustler]

Local?

[WellRedPhil]

What I find extraordinary is 'spare a thought for Plymouth Argyle', why does nobody ever say "spare a thought for the local business's" who will not be paid meaning some business's might go under or some real people might lose their jobs.

I guess it because a football club means so much to so many. I mean sure if a local business collapsed it would seriously affect it's employees and would probably have a marginal, although not critical, affect on it's customers. A Football Club running it's course on the other hand would be devastating to many, as well as also taking the jobs of many "normal" people.

The argument is of course it's their own fault and I don't really disagree with that but it seems these days everyone's overspending. There's going to be a hell of a lot more of these cases popping up over the next 5 years, many of them in the lower leagues I think...

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I guess it because a football club means so much to so many. I mean sure if a local business collapsed it would seriously affect it's employees and would probably have a marginal, although not critical, affect on it's customers. A Football Club running it's course on the other hand would be devastating to many, as well as also taking the jobs of many "normal" people.

The argument is of course it's their own fault and I don't really disagree with that but it seems these days everyone's overspending. There's going to be a hell of a lot more of these cases popping up over the next 5 years, many of them in the lower leagues I think...

I agree with all of that, but too me the main question should be answered by the fans SUCCESS (with more of a chance of administration) or A CLUB (probably in a lower league) firstly wages especially in the 2 lower leagues really need to represent only a slightly above average working weekly wage, I find it very hard to comprehend that Lee Trundle who played virtually all of his career in the lower leagues and could'nt cut it in the championship is a millionaire. Young footballers need to realise that playing football (especially in the lower leagues) for a good wage is better than working in a factory or Mcdonalds and not every player can actually make it in the prem. You only need to see how shit the national team is for evidence of that.

[WellRedPhil]

I agree with all of that, but too me the main question should be answered by the fans SUCCESS (with more of a chance of administration) or A CLUB (probably in a lower league) firstly wages especially in the 2 lower leagues really need to represent only a slightly above average working weekly wage, I find it very hard to comprehend that Lee Trundle who played virtually all of his career in the lower leagues and could'nt cut it in the championship is a millionaire. Young footballers need to realise that playing football (especially in the lower leagues) for a good wage is better than working in a factory or Mcdonalds and not every player can actually make it in the prem. You only need to see how shit the national team is for evidence of that.

As much as I agree with the point you're making we are of course at a stage where it is practically impossible to decrease players wages by average unless FIFA or the F.A take action. Now players, and especially agents, know they can demand these high wages they will not settle for less and there will always be another team who will pay the demanded price. It would need every Club to agree and tackle this together, which unfortunately is just not going to happen unless there is a motion passed.

There's so much money in football that it will naturally filter it's way into the player's pockets. After all, you're worth as much as someone's willing to pay...

[City fan 1982]

no time for them.......byyyeeeee

[Barrs Court Red]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/mansfield_town/9260797.stm

I hope this lot pull through, if only because of the 4-5 at their place.

[Jordan Tansley]

the players are paid a fair percentage of the money in the game. If i was talented at football I'd be looking to capitalise on the finances available... who wouldnt?

it's gonna take the FA or the Premier league and Football league (what are the FA actually in charge of?) taking control of the TV revenues and deciding that the distribution of it is unfair or could be better spent on grass roots or coaching.

wage caps won't help, the money will just bipass the players hands and end up in the pockets of the businessmen... I'd rather the players had it than some suited ******.

I'm not sure what the point of my post is anymore.... football is ******, too much greed, too much money... it's ouutgrown the people who govern it... no idea how that'll be fixed.

['Orns]

I'm with the '**** em' brigade

One of a very few clubs I don't mind seeing having problems. A vile club, with vile fans.

As they once spent a lot of time on here saying.......POP

[Portland Bill]

I noticed last week that Cardiff fans were e mailing and writing to the football league regarding Risdale trying to get in at Plymouth. The bloke is a conman,

As for Plymouth, i hate them with a passion, but.....dont really want them to go to the wall.

They really do have the most fickle support in the country though,a couple of years ago they were on here telling us what a big club they are , now there back to there normal 6,000 each week.

This is there 3rd winding up order in the last few months, the players and staff arent getting paid and Risdale is in the background. How scarey is that, not just for them, but for football.

[Pezo]

the players are paid a fair percentage of the money in the game. If i was talented at football I'd be looking to capitalise on the finances available... who wouldnt?

it's gonna take the FA or the Premier league and Football league (what are the FA actually in charge of?) taking control of the TV revenues and deciding that the distribution of it is unfair or could be better spent on grass roots or coaching.

wage caps won't help, the money will just bipass the players hands and end up in the pockets of the businessmen... I'd rather the players had it than some suited ******.

I'm not sure what the point of my post is anymore.... football is ******, too much greed, too much money... it's ouutgrown the people who govern it... no idea how that'll be fixed.

I sort of agree - I believe the world would be a lot nicer place if staff that do the work are better paid rather than some big cheese at the top taking all the wealth that his staff create, end of the day footballers create the wealth and they get paid the majority for that. I was thinking a couple of weeks ago that limiting clubs to spend 50% of income on wages of players max but like you say this would only end up in the pockets of suits, I think your right I think there has to be a rethink and the FA taking control of funds with the idea of a slow (it has to be slow or clubs will go to the wall very quickly) rebalancing of funds in favour of grass roots football.

This model will of course mean no top footballers in this country but I think our internationals could learn quite a lot by plying there trade in another country rather than being wrapped up in cotton wool and living the glamour lifestyle here. I would be quite happy with seeing this model but I don't think many that watch to keep up with the "office chatter", the kind of people that "kind of like football" would like it if disgusting amounts of money weren't being spent.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

i've actually mentioned before that in France the clubs have to publish their budget for the coming season and the punishment for exceeding that budget includes relegation, the stadiums are generally better than the UK and clubs very rarely come close to administration. Only one club recently came close to economic disaster and that was Nantes, who after Lyon over the past 20 years are probably France's 2nd most successful club. After last winning the league with 2002 things started to go spectacularly wrong and eventually they were relegated then promoted straight away and invested loads of money in signing overpaid journeymen like Bartez to try to keep their ligue 1 status, it did'nt work they were relegated straight away again. Now they have re-cut their cloth to their 2nd division status and are a mid table club, but still in business.

[Redcliffe 78]

I noticed last week that Cardiff fans were e mailing and writing to the football league regarding Risdale trying to get in at Plymouth. The bloke is a conman,

As for Plymouth, i hate them with a passion, but.....dont really want them to go to the wall.

They really do have the most fickle support in the country though,a couple of years ago they were on here telling us what a big club they are , now there back to there normal 6,000 each week.

This is there 3rd winding up order in the last few months, the players and staff arent getting paid and Risdale is in the background. How scarey is that, not just for them, but for football.

Risdale should of been banned for life from football after what he done at Leeds.

[Fireman Sam]

Did I miss it?

Where does it say they could be gone this week?

[BCFC Jordan]

Personally, I don't enjoy seeing any club go under.

[everreddy]

Personally, I don't enjoy seeing any club go under.

....me neither....except BAAAdiff!!!

[CiderArmyy]

I don't understand this `hatred` for Plymouth?

[luke_bristol]

*pop*

[The Red Planet]

Did I miss it?

Where does it say they could be gone this week?

The winding-up order brought by HMRC (the tax man) against PAFC will be heard in court on Wednesday.

In most businesses, the lenders (bankers) will establish themselves as preferential creditors (this also applies by law to HMRC). So if a business does go bust they have first call on any remaining assets. Usually, after this there is precious little left (if anything) for what are known as "unsecured creditors". If this does happen at Plymouth they will be the local traders that EMB was referring to in this thread but it might also apply to the likes of any unpaid football agents (oh dear, pass the hanky).

Therefore, if these preferential creditors think a business is going to fail, it is in their interests to issue a winding-up order as soon as possible in order to minimise their losses before there is nothing left for them to rescue from their failing loans or unpaid tax.

As I said before, when businesses go bust it is almost always because they run out of cash. Losing the support of their bankers (i.e no more loans) often precipitates this situation.

[The Red Planet]

I would like to think that my reputation on here is pretty sound, but just in case anyone thinks I am making this up, check this out.

http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/news/Argyle-facing-winding-bid-year/article-2941826-detail/article.html

Of course, there may well be a last minute agreement for more time to pay as Cardiff received many times from HMRC.

CONTROVERSIAL FORECAST ! Ten years from now there will be so many full time professional league football clubs gone out of business that the FA will do away with League 2 altogether.

For discussion !

[Cambridge Batch Red]

If you don't pay your taxes

you don't deserve to exist

simples.