Let's Get A Few Things Straight

[Ron]

'Teflon Keith', and 'The best man for the job'. Statements bounded about all too frequently recently on this forum, renowned rightly for its ridiculously fickle statements and attitudes towards managers. One poor game and it's Millen out, one good game and he's the best thing since sliced bread. Let's look at the facts. Coppell, who most (REPEAT... MOST, IF YOU DIDN'T, YOU ACCOUNT FOR THE MINORITY THAT ISN'T INCLUDED IN THE WORD MOST. HAVE A MEDAL) of this forum jizzed over, bought in piles of utter shite such as Hunt, who Millen has played if literally nothing else was available, and Stewart who's been little better. On the up-side, he did bring in James, Adomah & Cisse who have been pretty good on the whole, although if you believed everything you read on here you'd think AA was the best thing since sliced bread which isn't entirely the case. He's a very good right winger, but he has a fair few off days and is still inexperienced at this level which shows with some gravity at times.

If you were to afford Keith a pre-season (**** it, I'm sounding like a right Millen lover... a pre-season for a manager? what a liberty, Steve Coppell/Sean O'Driscoll/Pele would never have needed a pre-season...), which I know a few of you would never like to do since he's the antichrist and you wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire, most of them last 6 or 7 weeks. That would give Millen until the start of October time to sort the team out. If you give him a couple of weeks longer, given that he's taking on a team that's low on confidence after a battering at the mighty Southend in the Carling Cup and at home to Milwall in the league, on top of the greatest manager of all time resigning after a hugely successful reign of 2 games in charge, we've been in exceptional form. Since the Reading game, where we sat on 6 points from 11 games, we now sit on 31 from 25. If you take the points from the Reading game to QPR, that's a total of 25 points from 14 games, or 1.78 points/game. Over the course of a season that would give us 82 points, possibly enough for automatic promotion. No that's not the full story, but the 'Millen Out' brigade which is out in some force after today should button up.

Add to that, under Milen's stewardship, we've signed 3 fans' favourites. Considering he's been in the job 5 months, having Stead, Pitman and Caulker raved over by fans and some pundits alike is quite the achievement. I remember quite a few people saying when GJ made a poor signing, 'if you get half the signings you make on the money, you're doing a good job.' I agree with this statement, as I'm sure many others do seeing as it bears a lot of accuracy in the real world. Even if you're not Rose's biggest fan, I'm sure any City fan (or I hope) can appreciate what it is to bring a left-footed left winger to the club. He's not the best player in the world but on his day he's a very good left winger in this division, and anyone who disagrees with Stead/Pitman/Caulker signing need their eyes testing and a good clip round the ear.

Things haven't been perfect under Milly. The Palace, Wednesday, Hull and Reading games have been low points. I was at Leeds away and if Carey hadn't gone off we could easily have earned a deserved point - Hunt came on and was shite from start to finish - a great example of Coppell's superb managerial skill at signing prestige defenders. But we're not going to win every game and Keith hasn't had much time to make this squad his. It's been a crazy few weeks in the football league and the Premier League, but when Hodgson, Ferguson, Burley, Keane and Laws went, they left squads who they had assembled over at least one summer of their own transfer activity. 'Teflon Keith' has had 3 weeks. I'm not saying he's the finished article or he's the man to bring us to glory. If you want to argue with his recent record of 1.78 points per game, his signings of Stead, Caulker and Pitman and our decent football showing, feel free. But don't be offended if you get accused of talking utter bullshit.

[wookey]

Very many good points but what amazes me is that you have averaged over 1 post a day since August 2008,

Two points come to mind: What about the day job and with that amount of effort you could have written a novel!!

[red badger]

'Teflon Keith', and 'The best man for the job'. Statements bounded about all too frequently recently on this forum, renowned rightly for its ridiculously fickle statements and attitudes towards managers. One poor game and it's Millen out, one good game and he's the best thing since sliced bread.

'Teflon Keith' has had 3 weeks. I'm not saying he's the finished article or he's the man to bring us to glory. If you want to argue with his recent record of 1.78 points per game, his signings of Stead, Caulker and Pitman and our decent football showing, feel free. But don't be offended if you get accused of talking utter bullshit.

All good points - but as one who has always been unconvinced by Millen's appointment I think you're being a bit harsh on those of us who question it. I see very few people on here who actively dislike the man or are campaigning to get him out (unlike the situation with GJ). And most people questioning him have been doing so for months...and aren't fickle.

Keith's not doing a bad job...but it's not very good either. Sure you can start the season at a point that makes his record look competitive, but that's not when the season started...and who was in charge from Johnson's departure to the start of Coppell's very brief reign? The "teflon Keith" jibe is merited in my view. The bloke doesn't seem to be responsible for anything in some people's eyes!

That said...I wish Keith well. Maybe he'll be the finished article in time. But he's not what we needed to build on the successes of the Johnson years. Clearly Coppell wasn't either. The man responsible for failing to move the club on in the past year isn't Keith Millen, its Steve Lansdown. Coppell and Millen were both his appointments.

Glad I didn't waste my money yesterday.

[WayOutWest]

Glad I didn't waste my money yesterday....

what if we one?????????

OMF....mate seriously, you took the time to register on here...

you took the time to find a really nice avatar...

you took the time to not go to the game yesterday... and still complain...

Case is rested......maybe we are best off with out you

onwards and upwards

[Riaz]

Very many good points but what amazes me is that you have averaged over 1 post a day since August 2008,

Two points come to mind: What about the day job and with that amount of effort you could have written a novel!!

1 post per day - but theres more crap in one of your posts than there is in a years worth of his!

much love.

[dafarms]

I think we have a good up and coming managerial team in Millen and Wigley, they will need time ( something impossible for some supporters), and I am sure they will keep us up, and then next year could be a decent season in the top half, then maybe the season after we could challenge for promotion. I would be happy with that, which I think alot of others supporters would also. Just my opinion

[notsobigfatdave]

I suggest you get a copy of the WDP and have a look at the table..

We are 6 points off the Relegation zone and have just been bombed out of the cup by a inferior team

Apart from a loanee our defence is a shambles, Midfield not much better, We have a journeyman Goalkeeper who is arthritic and less than mobile

The team sheet gets changed more times than Katy Price gets implants

The buck stops at the Manager and thats KM...thats the way it is in football.

[dafarms]

In my opinion, I stand by my oringinal post, at present we are inconsistent, but a hell of alot better than we were 2 months into the season,

[Dolman Block B]

I suggest you get a copy of the WDP and have a look at the table..

We are 6 points off the Relegation zone and have just been bombed out of the cup by a inferior team

Apart from a loanee our defence is a shambles, Midfield not much better, We have a journeyman Goalkeeper who is arthritic and less than mobile

The team sheet gets changed more times than Katy Price gets implants

The buck stops at the Manager and thats KM...thats the way it is in football.

Your a happy chappy Dave i must say.

Other shock scores from sat apart from ours were

Arsenal 1 Leeds 1

Brighton 3 Pompey 1

Burton 3 Boro 1

Norwich 0 Orient 1

Reading 1 Wba 0

Saints 2 Blackpool 0

Stevenage 3 Newcastle 1

Sunderland 1 N County 2

And to really cheer you up ave a nose at this.......

1 Brighton 22 7 4 0 23 8 5 3 3 16 9 22 43

2 Bournemouth 23 9 1 2 31 10 2 5 4 13 15 19 39

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3 Southampton 22 7 3 3 23 9 4 1 4 14 11 17 37

4 Huddersfield 23 7 2 3 19 10 4 1 6 16 18 7 36

5 Charlton 22 5 3 3 13 15 4 4 3 24 18 4 34

6 Sheff Wed 22 6 2 3 16 7 4 1 6 18 15 12 33

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7 Peterborough 21 7 1 3 30 24 3 2 5 13 18 1 33

8 MK Dons 23 8 2 1 18 9 2 1 9 12 25 -4 33

9 Oldham 21 5 5 1 18 10 3 3 4 14 17 5 32

10 Hartlepool 21 4 2 3 17 20 5 3 4 9 9 -3 32

11 Rochdale 22 4 4 2 18 14 4 3 5 15 15 4 31

12 Colchester 21 4 6 2 19 19 3 4 2 11 11 0 31

13 Brentford 22 4 2 4 11 14 5 2 5 15 13 -1 31

14 Plymouth 23 5 4 4 17 17 3 2 5 12 18 -6 30

15 Exeter 23 5 4 2 22 16 3 2 7 12 25 -7 30

16 Notts County 21 7 0 4 17 11 2 2 6 13 18 1 29

17 Carlisle 21 5 4 3 18 13 2 3 4 11 11 5 28

18 Swindon 23 5 3 4 16 17 2 4 5 20 23 -4 28

19 Leyton Orient 21 5 2 2 15 10 2 4 6 16 23 -2 27

20 Tranmere 22 4 3 5 15 19 3 2 5 12 16 -8 26

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

21 Yeovil 22 4 2 4 14 16 2 3 7 9 20 -13 23

22 Bristol Rovers 21 3 2 4 9 15 2 5 5 16 24 -14 22

23 Dag & Red 22 2 4 4 10 14 2 2 8 13 24 -15 18

24 Walsall 22 3 0 7 10 19 2 3 7 12 23 -20 18

There there, feel better now mucker?

[demet78]

WE myself included all think we know best oh the joy of being a football fan!!!

[GrahamC]

I suggest you get a copy of the WDP and have a look at the table..

We are 6 points off the Relegation zone and have just been bombed out of the cup by a inferior team

Apart from a loanee our defence is a shambles, Midfield not much better, We have a journeyman Goalkeeper who is arthritic and less than mobile

The team sheet gets changed more times than Katy Price gets implants

The buck stops at the Manager and thats KM...thats the way it is in football.

I'd check your facts regarding team selection as injuries aside (Carey, McAllister, Ribeiro) the team has been pretty settled for two months now.

If it so poor how come we beat Swansea away, Cardiff at home and didn't get beaten by the league leaders home or away, either?

As the original poster put it Coppell's legacy wasn't great and how KM is supposed to find (Caulker apart, and who brought him in?) a whole new back four and midfield, which your post implies we need, outside of the transfer window when we are already employing 30 professionals, well, there's one to answer.

We are inconsistent, we are lacking leaders and we are carrying squad members, (signed both by GJ and Coppell) who simply aren't worth having and who will prove tough to shift.

If KM keeps up his points to games ratio so far and we finish outside the bottom four or five he'll have done his job for this season and will then deserve a summer transfer window and pre season to prove whether he can take us forward longer term.

[Mr Mosquito]

And to really cheer you up ave a nose at this.......

1 Brighton 22 7 4 0 23 8 5 3 3 16 9 22 43

2 Bournemouth 23 9 1 2 31 10 2 5 4 13 15 19 39

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3 Southampton 22 7 3 3 23 9 4 1 4 14 11 17 37

4 Huddersfield 23 7 2 3 19 10 4 1 6 16 18 7 36

5 Charlton 22 5 3 3 13 15 4 4 3 24 18 4 34

6 Sheff Wed 22 6 2 3 16 7 4 1 6 18 15 12 33

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

7 Peterborough 21 7 1 3 30 24 3 2 5 13 18 1 33

8 MK Dons 23 8 2 1 18 9 2 1 9 12 25 -4 33

9 Oldham 21 5 5 1 18 10 3 3 4 14 17 5 32

10 Hartlepool 21 4 2 3 17 20 5 3 4 9 9 -3 32

11 Rochdale 22 4 4 2 18 14 4 3 5 15 15 4 31

12 Colchester 21 4 6 2 19 19 3 4 2 11 11 0 31

13 Brentford 22 4 2 4 11 14 5 2 5 15 13 -1 31

14 Plymouth 23 5 4 4 17 17 3 2 5 12 18 -6 30

15 Exeter 23 5 4 2 22 16 3 2 7 12 25 -7 30

16 Notts County 21 7 0 4 17 11 2 2 6 13 18 1 29

17 Carlisle 21 5 4 3 18 13 2 3 4 11 11 5 28

18 Swindon 23 5 3 4 16 17 2 4 5 20 23 -4 28

19 Leyton Orient 21 5 2 2 15 10 2 4 6 16 23 -2 27

20 Tranmere 22 4 3 5 15 19 3 2 5 12 16 -8 26

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

21 Yeovil 22 4 2 4 14 16 2 3 7 9 20 -13 23

22 Bristol Rovers 21 3 2 4 9 15 2 5 5 16 24 -14 22

23 Dag & Red 22 2 4 4 10 14 2 2 8 13 24 -15 18

24 Walsall 22 3 0 7 10 19 2 3 7 12 23 -20 18

There there, feel better now mucker?

Get in there Arn, Gas third from bottom - it's a bright Sunday morning and all's well at the Goblin grotto.

[NATCHER]

There there, feel better now mucker?

I don't usually get hung up on our neighbours as if we compare ourselves with them it doesn't show much ambition.

However, take a look at Peter Ried having a little chat with one of the natives after Plymouths win at the rugby ground, qiute amusing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_2/9341840.stm

[Big Nose]

Very many good points but what amazes me is that you have averaged over 1 post a day since August 2008,

Two points come to mind: What about the day job and with that amount of effort you could have written a novel!!

To all you thick, so called 'football' fans ;

Wednesday arent a bad side and CITY had an off day - END OF.

Get a life and find some one/thing important to moan about

[Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan]

I don't usually get hung up on our neighbours as if we compare ourselves with them it doesn't show much ambition.

However, take a look at Peter Ried having a little chat with one of the natives after Plymouths win at the rugby ground, qiute amusing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_2/9341840.stm

Id love to know what that bloke was saying but I bet whatever it was it included the words "ITS NOT FAIR" with his bottom lip trembling

[spudski]

Imho, the OP makes some very valid points.

As to whether the buck stops with the manager, in this case i disagree. This appointment whether it fails or does well should stop with SL. He has worked with KM for years and know's exactly what he's getting. In the same way KM has worked with the CLub for years and has a slight advantage over any new incoming manager.

Timing of Transfer windows and being shrewd in the transfer market when they are open is even more important these days.

I hope KM does well.

The biggest problem we have is prior to the SC signing and the appointment of DJ, it gave the club a massive amount of media attention and high expectations. It seemed SL laid his stall out for a raid on Promotion. Fans had high expectations. So did the media. KM's appointment then felt like a step backwards for many, and all this has happened in a short space of time.

For me, this season is about survival and just seeing it out to safety. As to what happens next season, I think it will depend on how we fair this season, who we can off load, how well Milley does and the outcome of the new Stadium plans. A lot is going on this season, which will have a major effect on what happens in the summer me thinks.

SL will have to decide whether he puts his hands back into his pocket and invest heavily in the transfer market and try for automatic promotion, or do like the majority of clubs in this division, and have an average Championship squad with a chance of sneaking up through the play offs. That's what it pretty much boils down too imho.

[ashtonvale]

I suggest you get a copy of the WDP and have a look at the table..

We are 6 points off the Relegation zone and have just been bombed out of the cup by a inferior team

Apart from a loanee our defence is a shambles, Midfield not much better, We have a journeyman Goalkeeper who is arthritic and less than mobile

The team sheet gets changed more times than Katy Price gets implants

The buck stops at the Manager and thats KM...thats the way it is in football.

and you want Keef to miraculously snap his fingers and put right everything that is wrong .. in the space of a few months.. please for the sake of all that is sane, give him a chance...

Keef has worked wonders since he has taken over. I for one thought we were going down with an embarrassingly low point total.. he's stabilised us .. yes there are a couple of game lapses.. but jeez did you see us beat Cardiff 3 nil.. it was brilliant football and a joy to watch....

[Ron]

The biggest problem we have is prior to the SC signing and the appointment of DJ, it gave the club a massive amount of media attention and high expectations. It seemed SL laid his stall out for a raid on Promotion. Fans had high expectations. So did the media. KM's appointment then felt like a step backwards for many, and all this has happened in a short space of time.

For me, this season is about survival and just seeing it out to safety. As to what happens next season, I think it will depend on how we fair this season, who we can off load, how well Milley does and the outcome of the new Stadium plans. A lot is going on this season, which will have a major effect on what happens in the summer me thinks.

SL will have to decide whether he puts his hands back into his pocket and invest heavily in the transfer market and try for automatic promotion, or do like the majority of clubs in this division, and have an average Championship squad with a chance of sneaking up through the play offs. That's what it pretty much boils down too imho.

A very good point, the fans' hopes were high with James, some seemingly Premier League-quality signings on board (I remember reading a Bolton forum where half of them were gutted Hunt was coming to us...), and of course the man-marvel Steve Coppell, who in fairness we all fell for minus a few. The moment we lose those two games and he goes, everything changes. Millen hasn't proven he's going to be the one to deliver on that expectation but he's IMO doing as good a job as anyone could expect, with some good signings in a very short space of time and a very good recent run of form. We play, on regular occasions, far better football than the majority of the Johnson days, as well. The value of having 2 good quality, pacey wingers can't be overlooked.

I'm not sure whether we're within our means to go out and get automatic promotion through buying big players, the wage budget would need overhauling, and Bristol City doesn't really have the lure of most of the teams that've gone up automatically recently, or benefit from being one of 2 pro clubs in Wales. We'll see though.

Apologies for the somewhat x-rated rant, few too many scrumpys last night to down the sorrows...

[citylad05]

David James has been brilliant in goal for us this season. You got to look at the defence in front of you! David James, my opinion is the best keeper in the division and can still do a job for Premier League and even England. People moaning about journeyman, old man etc. He's fitter than most of the young players out there! The save against Parkin and Danns the other week and many other saves have been out of this world.

[red badger]

Glad I didn't waste my money yesterday....

what if we one?????????

OMF....mate seriously, you took the time to register on here...

you took the time to find a really nice avatar...

you took the time to not go to the game yesterday... and still complain...

Case is rested......maybe we are best off with out you

onwards and upwards

If we'd "won" I'd have been a happy man - a decent cup run has been a rare thing in my decades following City...home and away as it happens. A round trip over over 100 miles and a match ticket is what yesterday would have cost...I didn't think it worth it...and I was right.

You make an interesting point on the nature of "support". As a season ticket holder I make an investment in the club year after year. I reckon that gives me and other STs a right to an opinion. This is one of the few forums in which it can be expressed. As it happens I feel I'm getting pretty poor value out of a dire season and for the first time in many years I won't be renewing. I doubt I'll be alone. It's an entertainment business and a tough financial world. The fact is that City has a huge dormant fan base which it continually fails to excite. There are thousands of supporters out there who can't be persuaded to part with their cash. It's the club's job to get them voting with their feet...that's what professional football people are paid to do.

After promotion and Wembley the potential was there to build on Johnson's success...it's been squandered.

[ashtonvale]

A very good point, the fans' hopes were high with James, some seemingly Premier League-quality signings on board (I remember reading a Bolton forum where half of them were gutted Hunt was coming to us...), and of course the man-marvel Steve Coppell, who in fairness we all fell for minus a few. The moment we lose those two games and he goes, everything changes. Millen hasn't proven he's going to be the one to deliver on that expectation but he's IMO doing as good a job as anyone could expect, with some good signings in a very short space of time and a very good recent run of form. We play, on regular occasions, far better football than the majority of the Johnson days, as well. The value of having 2 good quality, pacey wingers can't be overlooked.

I'm not sure whether we're within our means to go out and get automatic promotion through buying big players, the wage budget would need overhauling, and Bristol City doesn't really have the lure of most of the teams that've gone up automatically recently, or benefit from being one of 2 pro clubs in Wales. We'll see though.

Apologies for the somewhat x-rated rant, few too many scrumpys last night to down the sorrows...

Nice to see someone talking sense.. keep on taking the medicine

[Jordan Tansley]

I suggest you get a copy of the WDP and have a look at the table..

We are 6 points off the Relegation zone and have just been bombed out of the cup by a inferior team

Apart from a loanee our defence is a shambles, Midfield not much better, We have a journeyman Goalkeeper who is arthritic and less than mobile

The team sheet gets changed more times than Katy Price gets implants

The buck stops at the Manager and thats KM...thats the way it is in football.

most foolish post of the day! well done.

David James has been absolutely outstanding this season, he's made more "worldy" saves than Basso did, and he had a reputation for such things.

Millen has had less than two months where he could bring in players on permanent deals (as you seem to assert that a loanee is a secondary signing)

We have recently announced another £12m deficit which now totals somewhere in the region of £30m...

We have been DECIMATED by injury and illness.

we have a manager who has inherited a squad that is inbalanced and full of average players, When Millen has his own squad which he has assembled I will judge.

Don't let the facts behind our circumstances alter your opinion though, It seems you are happy in your entrenched veiws of Millen and his performance as manager. Funnily the national media have had nothing but good things to say about Millen yet sections of our own "support" cannot even look at things without a subjective bias.

[Chappers]

Top post OP - I just wish some of our fans would get a reality check. All that Millen has to do is-

Cut the wage bill drastically

Offload a load of overpaid mediocrities

Sort out the mess left by Coppell

Get the Academy functioning properly

Try and make some signings that actually improve the squad, rather than clutter it up

Balance an unbalanced squad

Manage a squad with huige injury problems, particularly in defence

Millen and Wigley are doing an excellent job, the problem is not with them, but with the fans who have totally unrealistic expectations. It won't get easier untill all of the Johnson/ Coppell mediocrities are moved on, and KM and SW can start to build a side properly. Listening to some brainless gobby knob on RB (If you're reading this, you are an embarrassment to BCFC), I did think it was a turnaround from Johnson. Under him, a win was due to him, and a defeat all down to the players. Now it seems to be wins down to the players, and any defeat is all down to Millen.

[WellRedPhil]

'Teflon Keith', and 'The best man for the job'. Statements bounded about all too frequently recently on this forum, renowned rightly for its ridiculously fickle statements and attitudes towards managers. One poor game and it's Millen out, one good game and he's the best thing since sliced bread. Let's look at the facts. Coppell, who most (REPEAT... MOST, IF YOU DIDN'T, YOU ACCOUNT FOR THE MINORITY THAT ISN'T INCLUDED IN THE WORD MOST. HAVE A MEDAL) of this forum jizzed over, bought in piles of utter shite such as Hunt, who Millen has played if literally nothing else was available, and Stewart who's been little better. On the up-side, he did bring in James, Adomah & Cisse who have been pretty good on the whole, although if you believed everything you read on here you'd think AA was the best thing since sliced bread which isn't entirely the case. He's a very good right winger, but he has a fair few off days and is still inexperienced at this level which shows with some gravity at times.

If you were to afford Keith a pre-season (**** it, I'm sounding like a right Millen lover... a pre-season for a manager? what a liberty, Steve Coppell/Sean O'Driscoll/Pele would never have needed a pre-season...), which I know a few of you would never like to do since he's the antichrist and you wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire, most of them last 6 or 7 weeks. That would give Millen until the start of October time to sort the team out. If you give him a couple of weeks longer, given that he's taking on a team that's low on confidence after a battering at the mighty Southend in the Carling Cup and at home to Milwall in the league, on top of the greatest manager of all time resigning after a hugely successful reign of 2 games in charge, we've been in exceptional form. Since the Reading game, where we sat on 6 points from 11 games, we now sit on 31 from 25. If you take the points from the Reading game to QPR, that's a total of 25 points from 14 games, or 1.78 points/game. Over the course of a season that would give us 82 points, possibly enough for automatic promotion. No that's not the full story, but the 'Millen Out' brigade which is out in some force after today should button up.

Add to that, under Milen's stewardship, we've signed 3 fans' favourites. Considering he's been in the job 5 months, having Stead, Pitman and Caulker raved over by fans and some pundits alike is quite the achievement. I remember quite a few people saying when GJ made a poor signing, 'if you get half the signings you make on the money, you're doing a good job.' I agree with this statement, as I'm sure many others do seeing as it bears a lot of accuracy in the real world. Even if you're not Rose's biggest fan, I'm sure any City fan (or I hope) can appreciate what it is to bring a left-footed left winger to the club. He's not the best player in the world but on his day he's a very good left winger in this division, and anyone who disagrees with Stead/Pitman/Caulker signing need their eyes testing and a good clip round the ear.

Things haven't been perfect under Milly. The Palace, Wednesday, Hull and Reading games have been low points. I was at Leeds away and if Carey hadn't gone off we could easily have earned a deserved point - Hunt came on and was shite from start to finish - a great example of Coppell's superb managerial skill at signing prestige defenders. But we're not going to win every game and Keith hasn't had much time to make this squad his. It's been a crazy few weeks in the football league and the Premier League, but when Hodgson, Ferguson, Burley, Keane and Laws went, they left squads who they had assembled over at least one summer of their own transfer activity. 'Teflon Keith' has had 3 weeks. I'm not saying he's the finished article or he's the man to bring us to glory. If you want to argue with his recent record of 1.78 points per game, his signings of Stead, Caulker and Pitman and our decent football showing, feel free. But don't be offended if you get accused of talking utter bullshit.

Although I disagree a little with some of the points you've raised (as of course would be the case when you've made so many!) this is all in all a pretty decent post and I think you've got a good point. Some people's minds are changed at such a rapid rate it is ridiculous.

And one more thing, just because you might not have thought Millen was the right man for the job when he was appointed it doens't mean you cannot ever praise him and must maintain that he's shit. I don't think many people thought he was the right man for the job at the time but that does not mean you cannot appreciate what a good job he's done, especially since October. The 3 year contract has been explained countless times and he has brought in some very good players as 'Carey#6' has said. In actual fact he has more than steadied the ridiculously rocky ship. I am not saying he is by any means perfect and he clearly has a lot to learn but one abysmal performance in the cup does not suddenly make him clueless nor does it prove you right for not wanting him in the first place.

[WellRedPhil]

I suggest you get a copy of the WDP and have a look at the table..

We are 6 points off the Relegation zone and have just been bombed out of the cup by a inferior team

Apart from a loanee our defence is a shambles, Midfield not much better, We have a journeyman Goalkeeper who is arthritic and less than mobile

The team sheet gets changed more times than Katy Price gets implants

The buck stops at the Manager and thats KM...thats the way it is in football.

Absolute bollocks. We have been forced into change of late and during our good run Millen was playing the same team most weeks!

[havanatopia]

. If you take the points from the Reading game to QPR, that's a total of 25 points from 14 games, or 1.78 points/game. Over the course of a season that would give us 82 points, possibly enough for automatic promotion. No that's not the full story, but the 'Millen Out' brigade which is out in some force after today should button up.

If you want to argue with his recent record of 1.78 points per game, his signings of Stead, Caulker and Pitman and our decent football showing, feel free. But don't be offended if you get accused of talking utter bullshit.

Nicely argued; not that i agree with all of it. Slight bias in your argument, and thats also fine by the way as its your perogative, but would be far better, especially if you want to carry the fans with you, if you take KM's tenure from start to finish and not just that block of matches.

; Neither do I entirely buy the point you make on KM having had barely a few weeks to mold his team. he has been at the club for 10 years and in that time he has had significant input into the team building exercise and it is not hugely altered from the beginning to end of Coppell's short reign. I cannot blame SL coming out and saying our pre-season started when the season started; he would say that. Frankly, thats nonsense.

There are a number of teams in this division who appointed managers after Millen and they are higher up the league table. I do not buy the fact each one of those teams each has a far better team than us. it is in significant part about a motivated bunch on the pitch, the right tactics, the right words spoken before and after the match all in a consistent, positive and realistic manner. Many on here were espousing the virtues of our team at the start of the season, how KM had brought in some decent players albeit, we know too well, short in two key positions.

Keith is what he is; a rookie learning his trade and we either stick with him and expect nothing more than mid table obscurity for a season or two or SL does something else. Expectations at this club should be where the management structure is... reasonably decent, won't set the world alight, mid table obscurity. Maybe, just maybe, in 2 seasons time KM will have the experience and the team to give it a right go. That is my take on things although admittedly my binoculars do not stretch across the Atlantic.

[ashtonvale]

Nicely argued; not that i agree with all of it. Slight bias in your argument, and thats also fine by the way as its your perogative, but would be far better, especially if you want to carry the fans with you, if you take KM's tenure from start to finish and not just that block of matches.

; Neither do I entirely buy the point you make on KM having had barely a few weeks to mold his team. he has been at the club for 10 years and in that time he has had significant input into the team building exercise and it is not hugely altered from the beginning to end of Coppell's short reign. I cannot blame SL coming out and saying our pre-season started when the season started; he would say that. Frankly, thats nonsense.

There are a number of teams in this division who appointed managers after Millen and they are higher up the league table. I do not buy the fact each one of those teams each has a far better team than us. it is in significant part about a motivated bunch on the pitch, the right tactics, the right words spoken before and after the match all in a consistent, positive and realistic manner. Many on here were espousing the virtues of our team at the start of the season, how KM had brought in some decent players albeit, we know too well, short in two key positions.

Keith is what he is; a rookie learning his trade and we either stick with him and expect nothing more than mid table obscurity for a season or two or SL does something else. Expectations at this club should be where the management structure is... reasonably decent, won't set the world alight, mid table obscurity. Maybe, just maybe, in 2 seasons time KM will have the experience and the team to give it a right go. That is my take on things although admittedly my binoculars do not stretch across the Atlantic.

Which teams have had managers appointed after Keef , but are further up the table?

I remember Burnley, very recent manager sacking (December) who have parachute payments and a somewhat settled squad

The only other one is Leicester.. who have recently started to put some results together but ain't that far ahead of us

Who am I missing?

[notsobigfatdave]

most foolish post of the day! well done.

David James has been absolutely outstanding this season, he's made more "worldy" saves than Basso did, and he had a reputation for such things.

Millen has had less than two months where he could bring in players on permanent deals (as you seem to assert that a loanee is a secondary signing)

We have recently announced another £12m deficit which now totals somewhere in the region of £30m...

We have been DECIMATED by injury and illness.

we have a manager who has inherited a squad that is inbalanced and full of average players, When Millen has his own squad which he has assembled I will judge.

Don't let the facts behind our circumstances alter your opinion though, It seems you are happy in your entrenched veiws of Millen and his performance as manager. Funnily the national media have had nothing but good things to say about Millen yet sections of our own "support" cannot even look at things without a subjective bias.

Success is determined by results whether in sport or business....BC should have had a Premier League Football Team years ago. All good (dare I say great Teams) start with a great Manager.

KM is not that man...even though you seem to assume I am criticising him in my original post I am not, just stating the fact that the Manager is responsible for Team selection, Training, Coaching, Transfers, Loan ins and loan outs, and perhaps most importantly at this level, motivating the very mediocre bunch of players we have (bar one or two...) And dont give me that Old chestnut about Englands EX No 1. james has been average for us between the sticks and nothing more!

The Buck always stops at the managers door no-one else. I dont believe KM is the Man to take BC forward not now or in 5 years time. If this had been the case SL would have offerred him the position before even talking to Copell, Curbishley or the like. I pay good money for my season ticket and have done each year for the last 15...I dont think I want to settle for mediocrity as many of you do. If you are happy to accept a possible play off position every 10 years or the odd cup run every 20 thats fine...but Im not.

[Jordan Tansley]

Success is determined by results whether in sport or business....BC should have had a Premier League Football Team years ago. All good (dare I say great Teams) start with a great Manager.

KM is not that man...even though you seem to assume I am criticising him in my original post I am not, just stating the fact that the Manager is responsible for Team selection, Training, Coaching, Transfers, Loan ins and loan outs, and perhaps most importantly at this level, motivating the very mediocre bunch of players we have (bar one or two...) And dont give me that Old chestnut about Englands EX No 1. james has been average for us between the sticks and nothing more!

The Buck always stops at the managers door no-one else. I dont believe KM is the Man to take BC forward not now or in 5 years time. If this had been the case SL would have offerred him the position before even talking to Copell, Curbishley or the like. I pay good money for my season ticket and have done each year for the last 15...I dont think I want to settle for mediocrity as many of you do. If you are happy to accept a possible play off position every 10 years or the odd cup run every 20 thats fine...but Im not.

I read up to here and stopped, I refuse to subject my eyes to anymore ridiculous drivel from you.

What an absolute tool.

[Donald]

Success is determined by results whether in sport or business....BC should have had a Premier League Football Team years ago. All good (dare I say great Teams) start with a great Manager.

KM is not that man...even though you seem to assume I am criticising him in my original post I am not, just stating the fact that the Manager is responsible for Team selection, Training, Coaching, Transfers, Loan ins and loan outs, and perhaps most importantly at this level, motivating the very mediocre bunch of players we have (bar one or two...) And dont give me that Old chestnut about Englands EX No 1. james has been average for us between the sticks and nothing more!

The Buck always stops at the managers door no-one else. I dont believe KM is the Man to take BC forward not now or in 5 years time. If this had been the case SL would have offerred him the position before even talking to Copell, Curbishley or the like. I pay good money for my season ticket and have done each year for the last 15...I dont think I want to settle for mediocrity as many of you do. If you are happy to accept a possible play off position every 10 years or the odd cup run every 20 thats fine...but Im not.

Jesus Christ, what do some people expect of the club.

League 1 is mediocrity.

Right now we are a mid table championship club looking long term to get promotion to the perm.

As long as we are progessing in the right way, which I believe we are. That's all we can ask.

Personally I believe we are in a much better position that last season, we have a young manager who likes attacking football, we have young players with promise, such as Ribs, Albert, pitman who will get better with experience.

Roll back 12 months when we were playing dull negative football with no adventure, players like agyemang, Styvar, sproule and were heading backwards fast

I know which I prefer.