The One Constant

[SuperFly2002]

[Monkeh]

I 10000000% agree,

[kevster3]

Totally agree,but you will probably be flagged off,for your honest opinions

[SuperFly2002]

Freedom of speech is not a crime - but so be it.

Totally agree,but you will probably be flagged off,for your honest opinions

[craigBCFC]

I understand where you are coming from, but it is not that simple.

in sport, almost any team sport, you need a few exceptional people to make the major differences. That is true at man Utd, it is true at City. Our success or failure is down to the quality on the pitch. An old adage is that you need a spine, well we have James and Caulker, but nothing after that, as Maynard has been injured. That is a major failing. You then need organisation and support players, in this area again we have been poor at recruiting. We have never got the balance in the team right. For example, it is impossible to beleive we have not found cover for left back despite looking for 3 years.We then move onto scouting. Who could have scouted Hunt? Impossible that anyone had. As for the policy of going foreign, again, who scouted Styvar and the others who all failed? Did we just watch videoas? Who scouted Clarkson, after the Trundle experience when we knew pace is an issue for a Championship striker? Then we tried a route of signing failed Championship players, not those that have had a history, like Dele, but the Haynes and Nyatanga route. Both players had huge doubts over them, yet we signed them, and have confirmed those doubts. Now this all leads to the question why and when did we get it right? Well that falls into two groups, players that have proven they can play at this level, and constant and good performers who their clubs were not keen to lose or had shown glimpses of great performances in the past, maybe at a higher level. Stead, James and Dele are like that, but by and far away or most important signings are players out to prove themselves. Caulker, Admoah, Maynard, Elliot, Pittman, Skuse, etc players who are hungry and need to make a name for themselves, coming through an Academy, through a prem team or a lower league club.

So all of this is to say, step one, we must sort out our scouting and player signing. I actually think KM is onto that, I cannot call into question any of his signings, as I think they will all improve the team, given time. Rose even, will probably come back in centre midfield now, and play far better. So KM is onto that, but due to money constriants, timing, has not been able to put enough quality inti the current squad.

Then we come to the second level, having got players in, what do we do with them. This touches on the OP comment. We look clueless and disorganised far too often, we have far too many injuries, heads drop in seconds and there is no leadership. Sadly, a lot of this does come down to KM now. It is an area where he has to make gigantic steps forward in a few weeks not months. He has to change the whole of our backroom team, and raise the standard and experience level. We want to go to the Prem not L1, and the coaching, fitness training, sports scientists and mental conditioning coaches need to be the best in the business. They are not currently so.

I would get James into coaching, and put him in charge of coaching the defense. he is the only player that has international and Prem experience at the club, he knows the standards. I would bring in new coaches for attacking play, much as thhey do in rugby, working with players going forward. It is clear to me our forwards take far too long to understand movement. Movement BTW is our single biggest issue, we do not go long ball for any other reason than players have no one to pass to. We pass, and stand still. Terrible. The final point in the backroom, is we need a wiser head too, someone who has been around the block, can spot talent a mile off, and work with it. Most Prem clubs have these people.

Final area is the reserves and Academy. We have no reserve team structure, and that is a disaster, if they will let us, we need to get into the combination or a league in London, even if it means we play our home games at a pitch in London, it does not matter. We need to invest in the travel cost to get a better standard. Academy, well it is still producing L1 and L2 players, we are nowhere near the level of Palace for example, or even Cardiff. We are not deleivering, and we need to understand why. Again, a look at how we scout and coach and then transfer to the first team is needed.

So OP is right, we do need to update our approach to running the football side of our club, i think KM can do some of it, but I am not convinced he or Wiggles has the man management skills to get a cohesive team together, I see the value in KM, but see currently a club being run by two assistant managers.

That is my take

I have supported Millen, he done a good job at the end of last season and has taken over a poisoned chalice this season. I agreed with many of the posts on here so far, I just don't believe the majority of the players have that real cutting edge, a real desire and real winning mentality. Just look back at Millen's statements the last few weeks.

He says things like - "We went 1 - 0 down and the confidence was sapped from us" etc etc

All teams, athletes have disappointing moments in matches and season's, but its the way you react to those disappointments which defines you was a team or a athlete. Players that aren't the best technically can still make a deference just by their attitude, look at Darren Fletcher, he never gets a mention for Man Utd, he works his socks off week in week out, he covers the pitch and has a real desire to win. I wouldn't say there is one Bristol City player with even a ounce of that desire to make something happen, no one that runs around like a headless chicken to close people down and really gee up the crowd and lift his team mates. They just want it to fall into their laps, they are always waiting for a mistake, waiting for something to happen. Belief in your ability comes from hard work, thats not just turning up to training 3 times a week and strolling round on a saturday. These players should be doing everything in their power to turn this around, but there not! Its all to easy for them. There's no determination for them to make things better as ultimately they don't care enough!

I think this club has always suffered from a lack of professionalism, I think sooner rather than later we need a manager, someone that commands respect and demands the standard we expect as supports, unfortunately Millen is a number 2, he's not going to get that from this set of players thats for sure. I think we need to get rid of alot of the dead wood in this club and SL need to think how far he prepared to go to take this club to the next level. As much as I like them there are a few that are past their sale by date, Carey, McAllistar, Johnson, JCR, Clarkson, Stewart, Sproule, Hunt, and maybe even Elliott should be looked at. Really think we need a good look at this squad over the summer if we stay up, get someone in who is going to take this club forward, bring in some fresh faces and players that want to play for us, James, Stead and Adomah are the sort of players we want, their commitment couldn't be doubted, but 7 or 8 others just don't have that commitment!

Time to change and move forward!

Millen has a done a decent job and I'm not having a go, its just my opinion.

[Donald]

and they were also the same constant when the team was succesful

[craigBCFC]

and they were also the same constant when the team was succesful

Yeah key point "when the team were"

We are 19th in the league now, the players have no confidence or desire to get us out of this hole at the moment. There is a lack of professionalism! There not kids they get paid thousands a week and they should all be doing better.

[SuperFly2002]

I have supported Millen, he done a good job at the end of last season and has taken over a poisoned chalice this season. I agreed with many of the posts on here so far, I just don't believe the majority of the players have that real cutting edge, a real desire and real winning mentality. Just look back at Millen's statements the last few weeks.

He says things like - "We went 1 - 0 down and the confidence was sapped from us" etc etc

All teams, athletes have disappointing moments in matches and season's, but its the way you react to those disappointments which defines you was a team or a athlete. Players that aren't the best technically can still make a deference just by their attitude, look at Darren Fletcher, he never gets a mention for Man Utd, he works his socks off week in week out, he covers the pitch and has a real desire to win. I wouldn't say there is one Bristol City player with even a ounce of that desire to make something happen, no one that runs around like a headless chicken to close people down and really gee up the crowd and lift his team mates. They just want it to fall into their laps, they are always waiting for a mistake, waiting for something to happen. Belief in your ability comes from hard work, thats not just turning up to training 3 times a week and strolling round on a saturday. These players should be doing everything in their power to turn this around, but there not! Its all to easy for them. There's no determination for them to make things better as ultimately they don't care enough!

I think this club has always suffered from a lack of professionalism, I think sooner rather than later we need a manager, someone that commands respect and demands the standard we expect as supports, unfortunately Millen is a number 2, he's not going to get that from this set of players thats for sure. I think we need to get rid of alot of the dead wood in this club and SL need to think how far he prepared to go to take this club to the next level. As much as I like them there are a few that are past their sale by date, Carey, McAllistar, Johnson, JCR, Clarkson, Stewart, Sproule, Hunt, and maybe even Elliott should be looked at. Really think we need a good look at this squad over the summer if we stay up, get someone in who is going to take this club forward, bring in some fresh faces and players that want to play for us, James, Stead and Adomah are the sort of players we want, their commitment couldn't be doubted, but 7 or 8 others just don't have that commitment!

Time to change and move forward!

Millen has a done a decent job and I'm not having a go, its just my opinion.

Whilst i whole heartedly agree with what your saying, you still are not addressing the root of the problem which is the mentality of the long standing backroom training staff; which does still include Keith. They have no NEw ideas of how to freshen things up, as I said before same old, same old - "make do and mend attitude". Sorry BCFC are a bigger club than that - Our owner just needs to realise it.

[Sargent Pepper]

I believe Coppell would have been charged with that task. I think the idea was for him to assess and improve the club on and off the pitch.

[hippy273]

I believe Coppell would have been charged with that task. I think the idea was for him to assess and improve the club on and off the pitch.

Things is he only managed to sign a fitness coach from Reading, then just gave up so nothing has really changed.

[SuperFly2002]

Things is he only managed to sign a fitness coach from Reading, then just gave up so nothing has really changed.

Again my point - Apathy and lack of disire to get to the root causes of the problems on and off the pitch. We are run with no prolonged guidance from the top i.e. SL and the board.

[ralphindevon]

I agree, I was so looking forward to Coppell having a good clear out and fresh start for the club.

Taking on Millen after all he had been through with GJ was a mistake IMO, however once the decision was made I have stood by him hoping for the best but it doesn't look like my hopes are going to materialise.

[mcbcfc]

I agree with the staffing issue however the main problems are on th pitch. For at least 18 months we've needed a creative midfielder, we've need competion for left back and as another transfer window passes we are again short of these. KM has been here for god knows how long if he can't see the problem in the middle of the park then he should never be in management. Why was a center half allowed to run 25 yards unchallenged last nite for swansea's first goal? The simple fact is we all know what we're going to get with Marv, Skuse and Johnson and none are capable of commanding the midfield. I would quite happily allow all 3 to leave in the summer. This team needs ripping apart and starting again, that's the team off the park as well on it.

[Steve Watts]

Things is he only managed to sign a fitness coach from Reading, then just gave up so nothing has really changed.

And you have to question how successful that's been too... Kunle was brought in to help condition athletes' bodies to cope with the rigour of professional sport and we now have people blowing out of their arses after an hour of not doing much and an injury list the length on one of Boom Boom's legs! That's one i'd look to get shot of asap as i see no merits of having him there since he arrived!

Like others have said, a clear out from top to bottom is required to reinvigorate this club. New ideas from new personell.

[Spud55]

I understand where you are coming from, but it is not that simple.

in sport, almost any team sport, you need a few exceptional people to make the major differences. That is true at man Utd, it is true at City. Our success or failure is down to the quality on the pitch. An old adage is that you need a spine, well we have James and Caulker, but nothing after that, as Maynard has been injured. That is a major failing. You then need organisation and support players, in this area again we have been poor at recruiting. We have never got the balance in the team right. For example, it is impossible to believe we have not found cover for left back despite looking for 3 years.We then move onto scouting. Who could have scouted Hunt? Impossible that anyone had. As for the policy of going foreign, again, who scouted Styvar and the others who all failed? Did we just watch videoas? Who scouted Clarkson, after the Trundle experience when we knew pace is an issue for a Championship striker? Then we tried a route of signing failed Championship players, not those that have had a history, like Dele, but the Haynes and Nyatanga route. Both players had huge doubts over them, yet we signed them, and have confirmed those doubts. Now this all leads to the question why and when did we get it right? Well that falls into two groups, players that have proven they can play at this level, and constant and good performers who their clubs were not keen to lose or had shown glimpses of great performances in the past, maybe at a higher level. Stead, James and Dele are like that, but by and far away or most important signings are players out to prove themselves. Caulker, Admoah, Maynard, Elliot, Pittman, Skuse, etc players who are hungry and need to make a name for themselves, coming through an Academy, through a prem team or a lower league club.

So all of this is to say, step one, we must sort out our scouting and player signing. I actually think KM is onto that, I cannot call into question any of his signings, as I think they will all improve the team, given time. Rose even, will probably come back in centre midfield now, and play far better. So KM is onto that, but due to money constriants, timing, has not been able to put enough quality into the current squad.

Then we come to the second level, having got players in, what do we do with them. This touches on the OP comment. We look clueless and disorganised far too often, we have far too many injuries, heads drop in seconds and there is no leadership. Sadly, a lot of this does come down to KM now. It is an area where he has to make gigantic steps forward in a few weeks not months. He has to change the whole of our backroom team, and raise the standard and experience level. We want to go to the Prem not L1, and the coaching, fitness training, sports scientists and mental conditioning coaches need to be the best in the business. They are not currently so.

I would get James into coaching, and put him in charge of coaching the defense. he is the only player that has international and Prem experience at the club, he knows the standards. I would bring in new coaches for attacking play, much as they do in rugby, working with players going forward. It is clear to me our forwards take far too long to understand movement. Movement BTW is our single biggest issue, we do not go long ball for any other reason than players have no one to pass to. We pass, and stand still. Terrible. The final point in the backroom, is we need a wiser head too, someone who has been around the block, can spot talent a mile off, and work with it. Most Prem clubs have these people.

Final area is the reserves and Academy. We have no reserve team structure, and that is a disaster, if they will let us, we need to get into the combination or a league in London, even if it means we play our home games at a pitch in London, it does not matter. We need to invest in the travel cost to get a better standard. Academy, well it is still producing L1 and L2 players, we are nowhere near the level of Palace for example, or even Cardiff. We are not delivering, and we need to understand why. Again, a look at how we scout and coach and then transfer to the first team is needed.

So OP is right, we do need to update our approach to running the football side of our club, i think KM can do some of it, but I am not convinced he or Wiggles has the man management skills to get a cohesive team together, I see the value in KM, but see currently a club being run by two assistant managers.

That is my take

Agree with that pretty much 100%.

The problem is we had 4/5 years of ignoring what scouting system and youth system we had in place and have let others overtake us in those terms, Cardiff have a far bigger set up in the south west than we do which is frankly criminal on our part. That for me was Johnsons biggest failing, and eventually it came back and bit him in the arse as we ended up with a bloated squad which is simply nowhere near good enough in many, key areas and nothing in reserve when it started to not work.

We used to pick up some decent young players from around this area, but when Johnson took over we just stopped taking any notice, take Sam Vokes, 90% of city fans could have told the club about him and that he was a decent prospect well before Wolves even knew he existed, but the club seemed to manage to not notice him at all as our scouting system was pretty much run by Pete Johnson sat on youtube. Many of our best players over the years in the past have come from the Premier league exit trials, do we even bother to go to them anymore ? not that any of the players would have come as they would have been well aware that they would never get a game under Johnson.

We are not a big club and do not have the resources to go out and pick lots of proven players at the upper reaches of this division, we all would have liked a Creative midfielder in this window, but i'd love to know from the people slamming Millen for not getting one who we could have got ? Assuming that most of the available players got a move, i can't think of one single player who would have come to us over the club they are now at.

Therein lies the problem Millen has, he has a big squad largely full of dross, and decent players don't want to come here as they can get better deals and play at bigger clubs elsewhere, and young promising players dont wat to come here because we have completely destroyed any reputation we once had of giving youth a chance, Millen hasn't made much progress there either, as we are all aware that our midfield cant really get any worse, so what would be the harm of chucking one of the Irish lads alongside Elliot/Skuse, it may not make any difference, but we aren't going to loose anything, but it may with the energy and fearlessness that youth brings make all the difference if only for a couple of games.

It's got to the point where we simply can't get any worse, and until Rose comes back we should just chuck the kids in, stick Joe Edwards in at Right back and bring Fonts back into the middle and McAllister back at left back, and then chuck either one of the Irish lads or a promising academy kid in the center of the park, they will have nothing to loose as frankly even if they aren't good enough they can't look any worse than most of our players have over the last 5 games, as i say it may not work, but even if they don't make much difference with their performance their confidence and energy may just prove enough to get some of the regualrs to up their performance levels a bit which could make all the difference.

The academy will not produce players of the required level in the numbers we require until the club begins to use what youth we have, otherwise kids from the south west will continue to pick the taffs over us, and we wont get any decent players from exit trials. Southampton in the past 10 years have produced Theo Walcott, and now they have the kid who is wanted by Arsenal and Man U for £10 million, i can't accept that the people in their catchment area are any more tallented than the people in ours, just they are actively out looking for them, we have a scouting system that appears to be sat with their thumbs up their own arse.

We need to sort this out and soon, as we are never going to be big enough to buy the majority of our squad at the required standard, we can probably afford to with some of what we have, buy in a frst 16 of good championship standard, but after that it must be supplemented by good youth players, some who only grow into solid squad players, but the odd one that turns out to be exceptional and we get a few years of good service before making a huge profit on to re-invest into the squad.

With or without Millen this is what has to happen, so the key for me is that if we do axe Millen we have to replace him with a Manager who will develop our youth and look to kickstart the largely ignored academy once again. If we were to let Millen go, Tisdale would be my choice, but then there is no guarentee what so ever that he can cut it at this level either.

[SuperFly2002]

Agree with that pretty much 100%.

The problem is we had 4/5 years of ignoring what scouting system and youth system we had in place and have let others overtake us in those terms, Cardiff have a far bigger set up in the south west than we do which is frankly criminal on our part. That for me was Johnsons biggest failing, and eventually it came back and bit him in the arse as we ended up with a bloated squad which is simply nowhere near good enough in many, key areas and nothing in reserve when it started to not work.

We used to pick up some decent young players from around this area, but when Johnson took over we just stopped taking any notice, take Sam Vokes, 90% of city fans could have told the club about him and that he was a decent prospect well before Wolves even knew he existed, but the club seemed to manage to not notice him at all as our scouting system was pretty much run by Pete Johnson sat on youtube. Many of our best players over the years in the past have come from the Premier league exit trials, do we even bother to go to them anymore ? not that any of the players would have come as they would have been well aware that they would never get a game under Johnson.

We are not a big club and do not have the resources to go out and pick lots of proven players at the upper reaches of this division, we all would have liked a Creative midfielder in this window, but i'd love to know from the people slamming Millen for not getting one who we could have got ? Assuming that most of the available players got a move, i can't think of one single player who would have come to us over the club they are now at.

Therein lies the problem Millen has, he has a big squad largely full of dross, and decent players don't want to come here as they can get better deals and play at bigger clubs elsewhere, and young promising players dont wat to come here because we have completely destroyed any reputation we once had of giving youth a chance, Millen hasn't made much progress there either, as we are all aware that our midfield cant really get any worse, so what would be the harm of chucking one of the Irish lads alongside Elliot/Skuse, it may not make any difference, but we aren't going to loose anything, but it may with the energy and fearlessness that youth brings make all the difference if only for a couple of games.

It's got to the point where we simply can't get any worse, and until Rose comes back we should just chuck the kids in, stick Joe Edwards in at Right back and bring Fonts back into the middle and McAllister back at left back, and then chuck either one of the Irish lads or a promising academy kid in the center of the park, they will have nothing to loose as frankly even if they aren't good enough they can't look any worse than most of our players have over the last 5 games, as i say it may not work, but even if they don't make much difference with their performance their confidence and energy may just prove enough to get some of the regualrs to up their performance levels a bit which could make all the difference.

The academy will not produce players of the required level in the numbers we require until the club begins to use what youth we have, otherwise kids from the south west will continue to pick the taffs over us, and we wont get any decent players from exit trials. Southampton in the past 10 years have produced Theo Walcott, and now they have the kid who is wanted by Arsenal and Man U for £10 million, i can't accept that the people in their catchment area are any more tallented than the people in ours, just they are actively out looking for them, we have a scouting system that appears to be sat with their thumbs up their own arse.

We need to sort this out and soon, as we are never going to be big enough to buy the majority of our squad at the required standard, we can probably afford to with some of what we have, buy in a frst 16 of good championship standard, but after that it must be supplemented by good youth players, some who only grow into solid squad players, but the odd one that turns out to be exceptional and we get a few years of good service before making a huge profit on to re-invest into the squad.

With or without Millen this is what has to happen, so the key for me is that if we do axe Millen we have to replace him with a Manager who will develop our youth and look to kickstart the largely ignored academy once again. If we were to let Millen go, Tisdale would be my choice, but then there is no guarentee what so ever that he can cut it at this level either.

Im pleased that reassured that that this isnt turning into a sack the manager type witch hunt, great contribution, nice one :-)

[Red-Robbo]

I agree with the vast majority of the points made here, in particular the criminal denial of giving young players a chance to prove themselves in the first team.

I've also long had worries about the competence of the club's medical team. When our players are out, they seem to be out for longer than most other clubs. Maynard's travails are such an example.

I had these concerns under the Wilson regime and they continue to this day.

[Laner]

Question: What is the one constant over the last few poor seasons? Don't forget us Fans. Sometimes the one constant many clubs ignore!

[NOTR]

Ithink the new fitness trainer has been great,we are now able to back peddle for the full ninety minutes.

[IAmNick]

The academy will not produce players of the required level in the numbers we require until the club begins to use what youth we have, otherwise kids from the south west will continue to pick the taffs over us, and we wont get any decent players from exit trials. Southampton in the past 10 years have produced Theo Walcott, and now they have the kid who is wanted by Arsenal and Man U for £10 million, i can't accept that the people in their catchment area are any more tallented than the people in ours, just they are actively out looking for them, we have a scouting system that appears to be sat with their thumbs up their own arse.

I'm pretty sure Southampton in fact have a centre in Bath for young players, and scout around this area very heavily - most likely because they know there's a fair amount of talent around here (why would it be any different from elsewhere in the country?) and nobody at all is picking up on it. My friend spoke to a young lad heading down to Southampton from Bristol on the train the other day - he asked him why he was there, and not at the City academy, he simply answered "Because they're the best", and therein lies our problem. We have a huge catchment area here, we'd undoubtedly be more exciting than joining the Rovers academy, and where else is nearby? Cardiff I suppose, but they have a large area in Wales to pick up youth from. It's not like we're around Leeds/Manchester area where they are lots of high profile clubs all competing for youngsters.

We really need to step up our youth training and coaching, and make this area ours - push other teams who scout around here out, so the first thought on any decent youngsters mind around here is "How can I get involved in the City academy?"

[RED4LIFE]

Southampton in the past 10 years have produced Theo Walcott, and now they have the kid who is wanted by Arsenal and Man U for £10 million, i can't accept that the people in their catchment area are any more tallented than the people in ours, just they are actively out looking for them, we have a scouting system that appears to be sat with their thumbs up their own arse.

Tbf, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain wasn't scouted by Saints. He is the son of Mark Chamberlain (ex-England winger) who was a coach there a few years back and he introduced him to Southampton.

Other than that, I agree with this as I cant fathom why we cannot get youth players like them or Cardiff considering we would/should be looking at the same kids as per FA rules stating youth players must come from within a certain radius (60miles I think) of the club.

[SuperFly2002]

Wow just reading a really old post that I made from 2011 - how things have changed

[slartibartfast]

I was just about to have a real pop at you, then I looked at the post  date ! 

[SuperFly2002]

So was I right ?

[zyderiup]

How many people are going to read the OP and think you posted this today?

[slartibartfast]

So was I right ?

not wrong

[SuperFly2002]

   -   a few I'm guessing, I was so frustrated when I originally wrote this posting, this thing was, we could all see it except the board ........

[zyderiup]

So was I right ?

 

Kitman is still a bit dodgy

 

[SuperFly2002]

TBF he is still a massively positive soul to have around the place