Haters! Learn To Think!

[glynriley]

Dear god you have humbled thou with your grasp of the English vernacular..... pfft like hell, its not like there are x number different threads a day spouting for Millens head in various guises I was going to ask one of the moderators to give the winger's their own forums so I don't have to read 50 re-incarnations of the same thread each day of the week....... forgot you pedant!

Make sure the left 'wingers' dont start on the right !!

[sh1t_ref_again]

Someone put in a tread for one of the KM supporters to defend him against all the nonsense thrown at him. So here are just a few reasons why I think the guy is doing well and will do better.

I was unfortunate enough to see one of Copouts game in charge and based on his taking of a team that millen had picked up at the end of the season before and lackadaisically turning it into the utter mess I seen at Southend. I'm sure if Copout was here now we would be in Prestons position. And we would have been on the wrong end of a 4-0 thumping. After the game I was saying to a Southend fan about Coppel doing a rebuilding job trying to kid myself, but was gutted to find out that Southend had put its team together in the summer nearly all of them like they only had a few players on their books worse than Pompey!!

Kieth has done somthing that Brown did with Hull and formed a relationship with a top Premier League side Campbell was instrumental in Hulls success over us in the play-offs and their run into the play-offs. GJ never seemed interested in building these kind of relationships.

Most of the post match dribble I see on here about KM is just that its written with the benefit of hindsight and little or no consideration for the fact our defence has been an utter conveyor belt of injuries this season on top of that KM openly agrees with most of us that Jamie Mac needs competition, but none of you seem to get it that were not League 1 or League 2 where we would have a plethora of decent loans to choose from were Championship, that means we have the Prem and other teams in our own division to choose from does not make life easy. Most of the haters seem to think good players grow in trees, if that were the case we would all be ****ing Chelsea wouldn't we.

I will bet good money KM will take this group of players and do good things with them in the summer how good I don't know but we will see next season, he has more than shown so far this season that were capable of beating good teams well (Cardiff, Swansea, QPR).

Inconstancy is always going to be an issue when your defence is the walking wounded for most of the season. I think 4-4-2 is going to be our strongest set-up going forward but we will see.

90% of all the haters posts are the same 10-15 posters over representing themselves on this forum.

Could give many many more points but I honestly cant be arsed as it would be like slapping myself in the face with a hardback book as I don't expect any of the emotionally driven haters to have a rational bone or thought in their body!

Good post

there always seem to be a band of posters who wish to enlighted the rest of us based upon hindsight - with the same hindsight I always get the lottery numbers right, but still don't win any money

or if not jump on the bandwagon and attack the latest scapegoat

or just spend SL's money for him, bringing in this player or changing the manager - but its easy to spend someone elses money without any real understanding of the fianacial implications behind it or actually having the cash to do it

I don't always agree with what Keef does, but I do belive he loves and is passionate about our club - rather than someone like copout

as fans most of us (without being related to the 2nd cousin of a player aunt) only ever know about a tiny fraction of what happens at the club each week, formations being worked on the training pitch, efforts to bring in players only to fall through

at the end of the day we all want sucess along with everone else in this league, but only a few can go up and a few will also go down

[bucksred]

Whatever the lovein with Keith says, this team is sooooooooooooo inconsistent, its untrue.

KM maybe a nice guy, and have cultivated a link with a bigger club (Christ aint that the first time. Not) but his coaching appears to be somewhat lacking, and I aint convinced GJ's strongest suit, the fitness of the squad has regressed substantially either.

This I would suggest indicates he may not be up to the job.

To his credit, he has signed far better players than GJ managed, but he hast got the best out of them.

[Davros]

You accuse those of dissenting views of being emotionally driven and non-thinking and then proceed to do exactly the same yourself.

If you want to 'think' I'd argue you have to show a degree of objectivity and appreciation of opposing view points.

So let's take the emotion out of this and try and inject some objectivity:

1. Given the budget spent on the team, do you think that the team has performed against expectations? Yes and No we have been let down by the defence all but millen has been playing with the shape as well as trying to build confidence.

2. Do you think that the majority of a season is sufficient time for a manager to stamp his authority on the team/formation/attitude of players? No it takes a preseason and then another full season this is common knowledge! Millen has picked up Copouts sh**tmess and has been fire-fighting all season long with the squad.

3. Accepting that a sizeable majority of the season has been played are you happy with the current league position? If not, what actual evidence do you have that KM will improve that? Agree with you but its not that simple is it, most of you would have taken half the managers that have now been fired at the start of the season but idiots don't beat Cardiff, QPR draw with Newcastle away and beat Swansea.

As time goes on and we stay near the bottom of the table the excuses for KM will keep on dwindling. What suprises me is that people are willing to keep on having faith in KM and personally I've got no idea what justifies that faith. The faith is that he inherited absolute crap and turned it around were 10 points

Excuses buy him time, but as this season goes on what evidence is there that next year he will miraculously turn it around? Is it just because he is good at signings? Is that really enough to compete at the top end of this league? He will have a whole pre-season and that is where he should be judged depending on what players he has scope to move on and can keep.

For those who see the anti-KM brigade (haters is such a pathetic label - there really is nothing personal here) as a negative force, consider this:

- if you continue to accept and even support mediocrity whose actions have put City near the bottom of the table after the majority of the season, who ultimately is being disloyal to the club? If you remember last season the haters got rid of GJ what good has this done us in the long term were have had Coppel in massive amounts of money has been spent and were now screwed with 3 different managers players what good does this do? Building a team over time if the only proven way to build a team.

- putting excuses aside what do you see in KM that makes him a top-flight manager? If you can't genuinely label him as that, why keep him? He's very sanguine and very honest with himself also very critical when its needed and also seems to do a good job of keeping the players happy, DJ didnt jump ship strait away and he has proved he can get the results.

That answer your questions?

If you can do the same for all the available candidates out there and put yourself in SL shoes having gambled on Copout that many of us were pleased to see at the start of the season. Then think is it worth it, at the end of the day were not Chelsea and although SL has considerably more money than me hes not an infinite pot of money and its rather rich to assume he can fund BCFC with his entire wealth.

[Spike]

I don't hate Millen, I just don't think we'll improve past a mid-lower table team with him in control. I could be wrong but after seeing the likes of David James and Steve Coppell it's made me realise we can bring in bigger names, we can push a little harder. I know Coppell turned out to be a complete waste of our time but I do think we need someone at the helm who is a lot more experienced and who can inspire confidence in the fans.

I don't think any one can honestly say "I think we'll go up with KM in charge".

[newboy]

That answer your questions?

If you can do the same for all the available candidates out there and put yourself in SL shoes having gambled on Copout that many of us were pleased to see at the start of the season. Then think is it worth it, at the end of the day were not Chelsea and although SL has considerably more money than me hes not an infinite pot of money and its rather rich to assume he can fund BCFC with his entire wealth.

Yes, in a way. It's a start, but practically all your responses above are excuses for the current position and not reasons why you think KM in particular is top level Championship managerial material. All of them are reasons for why the beginning of the season has been so bad, and I'd certainly argue that for every team that takes over a year to settle down you could find examples where a manager has come in and had a real effect very quickly.

The only plus points you give Keith are that he's sanguine and can keep the players happy. In my eyes that's not enough of a credential for investing another few million quid on him and gambling the entirety of next season on him.

And so it's equally valid that people don't rate KM because:

- our points position in the league is almost the polemic opposite of our spend position in the league. Now a lot of that isn't his fault, but some of it is and he's had time to rectify the shit he's been left with

- our form is so inconsistent. For every Swansea/Cardiff victory there have been 3 or 4 really bad ones against mediocre teams that we've made look good. And the key thing here is that there's no sign of improvement.

So he's been left with a shit situation (that he partially made himself given that he's been part of the furniture for so long) and that's fair enough. But after a prolonged period of time things aren't showing any signs of getting better in a consistent way.

And that is why people are questioning him IMHO. Not because of the mess at the beginning, it's because of the lack of progress in the mean time.

I guess it boils down to what you think is a reasonable amount of time to rectify the mess and whether KM is showing signs of sorting it.

For me personally I think he's had long enough and there's not been enough progress to justify giving him another £xx million and another season wasted on the off chance he suddenly comes good. For you you think he needs a close season to make the squad his own and kick on from there.

Fair enough, but without having a crystal ball I recognise the merit in both arguments and respect that. No need for name calling, no need for labelling the other a 'hater' or a 'millen love in'. It's almost like we could be adults about this if all parties showed a little respect and recognised the merits on both sides.

After all, isn't that what a forum *should* be about? Perhaps I'm being a little naieve here.

[Martyn Hocking]

I don't accept for a minute that Millen should be given a full pre-season and the whole of next season before he can be judged, as the OP suggests.

GJ inherited just as big a mess from Tinnion and by the end of his first season had the team playing winning football. That is what successful, experienced managers do.

The end of this season will be a fair time to judge Millen's work and his potential to take the club forward.

[Monkeh]

I don't accept for a minute that Millen should be given a full pre-season and the whole of next season before he can be judged, as the OP suggests.

GJ inherited just as big a mess from Tinnion and by the end of his first season had the team playing winning football. That is what successful, experienced managers do.

The end of this season will be a fair time to judge Millen's work and his potential to take the club forward.

Spot on and its how i feel

[newboy]

Speaking of objectivity, over the length of 33 games KM has taken us from an initial average of 0 pts per game to a pretty consistent 1.1 pts per game. It took 17 games to drag us up to this mark and it's been pretty constant since then.

So the facts show that he has improved the team since the beginning of the season, but has stalled at 1.1pt per game and has stagnated since. If anything there's a slight downwards trend at the moment, but statistically that's currently insignificant as it could revert back to ~1.1 with a couple of wins.

So another question - given the squad he inherited and the chances he's had to improve it, do you think 1.1pts per game is a fair return?

Would you expect as time goes for a decent manager to keep on improving that stat or do you honestly feel that the current squad can do no better regardless of manager?

Or put another way - if Colin had come in at the beginning of the season do you think we'd be where we are now?

Ave pts per game

0.00

0.00

0.33

0.50

0.40

0.83

0.71

0.63

0.67

0.60

0.55

0.50

0.69

0.71

0.87

0.88

1.00

0.94

1.05

1.15

1.24

1.18

1.13

1.13

1.20

1.19

1.15

1.11

1.10

1.07

1.03

1.09

1.06