Harito495 Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 In regards to Millen I do believe any manager needs to be given time but my problem is I can't see millens potential ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Strange thread, he was the saviour and performed a tactical masterclass according to some against Preston! My opinions are that he's got an eye for bringing in good players, tactically he is pretty conservatve (with eccentric tenancies) , which I put down to inexperience, yet he seems to lack that special motivational spark/persona that the best managers have. He was obviously not helped by Coppells antics and hasn't had the benefit of a pre-season to influence and innovate the squad. I sincerely doubt that KM would have been given the job under any other circumstances and with those excuses in place there is an argument to say he has done ok, has HE underachieved do far, or is he doing the best he can? That question is for SL to answer, if the answer is he's doing his best then he is not the man for the job. Personally I think he will make a decent career from management but managing at this level for your first job is tough and not the place to cut your teeth, my opinion is that he would have been mad to refuse the job but he's just not ready to be managing at this level YET. Again, it's just my opinion but I really can't see SL sacking him and who am I to argue with such a rich and experienced business man?!?! However I would personally be lining up a replacement to take charge in may............however I won't hold my breath and while KM is still here he will get my (dwindling) support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 and in the main the Millen ultras are also the most aggressive and offensive in their replies.. Here we go again, because we back the manager of our football club we are bracketed into some form of group in your eyes. Ita always an us v them in your posts. Esmond, just tell me, how often do you go to games ?. Its just that you told us all that you were over in Brittany for the Leeds game, but you were very vocal on the performance etc........which you did not watch. i'm presuming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Thats what i liked about jose mourinho for example, if he seen something wasn't working he would be making changes after 10 mins not 80 mins. Like you said with millen, he changes things when the game is lost and no time to do anything about it, rediculous imo... Mourinho always has the luxery of about 7 International players on the bench!. All managers have to decide when the best time is to make changes, GJ made 2 changes in the 91st minute in one game when we were 2-0 down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtyeoRed Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 We BCFC fans, myself included if you like, want our team to be one of the best, so do'es everyother football fan. We came very close not so long ago, and we want it again, but getting on the backs of the Chairman, Manager, and Players is not the wayto do it. If it was not for the likes of Steve Lansdown, Harry Dolman, and the rest we would not have a BCFC at all, so lets give ceedit where its due, make the most of what we got, and encourage the team to do better, instead of sitting there on Saturday's in silence, and then spending all week on here moaning. WE MUST DO OUR BIT AS WELL!! h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Hocking Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 To be fair to Millen these 3 are all experienced managers who you would expect to make an impact quickly. Millen is in his first full time managerial role, the first time he is totally responsible for what happens and he is having to learn quickly and under demanding, difficult circumstances and is as likely to fail as he is to succeed at the moment. To compare his start to these 3 managers is unfair, both in terms of the situation and the difference in experience. Which is precisely why I didn't want Millen appointed. Nothing personal against Keith, who I am sure is a sound bloke, but we cannot afford to wait two years for him to learn the ropes - in that time there is a good chance we will get relegated. Compare Leicester's current league position to ours - we were level with them when Sven took over, and now they are pushing for a play-off spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 The reason many fans are concerned is the last time we had a one season wonder in the championship it took a very long time to return. many fans do not want to be watching the like of yeovil,exeter etc in the near future. Do you really think SL will invest in a thirty odd thousand stadium with crowds of 10000 to 12000 people sat in it. My guess is he would not, Millen has a squad of players as good as any in this division,the problem being they are not playing to their strengths,or with strong leadership and direction from the management. I have no axe to grind with millen, I was surprised he got the job when coppell walked,even more surprised that SL gave it to him.However we as fans were happy to see what he could do. My take is after watching his teams i am not impressed at all with his selections,tactics,substitutions etc. I have purchased three STS for the last twelve years,Do i renew this year,I am finding the football experience at AG under millen boring,Do i want to watch his teams play no.I have spoke with many STs who are thinking long and hard about renewing their seats under the current management set up. Still it would be a dull world if we all thought the same,you obviously think millen can turn it around, myself sadly i do not think he will.even if he keeps us up i really do not think he is the man to take the club forward,he should have gone when GJ went,the club needed a fresh set of ideas coaching wise. thing is, you said exactly the same thing last season under Johnson also when Tinnion was in charge, and what's the bet also under Tinnion.....and yet your still here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Here we go again, because we back the manager of our football club we are bracketed into some form of group in your eyes. Ita always an us v them in your posts. Esmond, just tell me, how often do you go to games ?. Its just that you told us all that you were over in Brittany for the Leeds game, but you were very vocal on the performance etc........which you did not watch. i'm presuming? Read the original post of this thread it started with bracketing 10-15 posters. As it is always them v us with people like Davros and others who shall remain nameless. As I said on a previous post, I am as I have been for many years a ST holder, this season has been a problem for personal reasons. As usual you presume a lot. I have only been vocal about the facts not the performance and the facts are we lost 2-0 at home (another home loss and another goal less home performance) and our manager only made a change after we were 2-0 down (game effectively lost) and whether it was a slightly better performance at home or we were like Barcelona for the last 30 minutes, we still lost and Millens tactics and his slow reaction to unfolding events (and not for the first time) were at least contributory to that defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Steve doesn't need Carey to defend him, particularly as only a tiny minority has anything critical to say about him anyway . Sucking up to the boss perhaps in pursuit of a new contract? Given his alleged role in driving Gary Johnson out he is in no position to lecture anyone about loyalty. Without Gary Johnson he would not be playing at this level and coining the money he is. Carey and the players wanted Millen as manager yet are still not putting in a regular shift for him; perhaps they could show their loyalty to him by actually putting in a 100% every game? Of course they may have wanted Millen as manager because they knew he would give them an easy time. I fully expect the usual suspects to have their guaranteed starting places next season (according to Keith after all McAllister is brilliant and of course Louis is the self-styled Mr Bristol City) with nice new contracts in their back pockets. Actually expecting them to perform in return is it seems wholly unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Steve doesn't need Carey to defend him, particularly as only a tiny minority has anything critical to say about him anyway . Sucking up to the boss perhaps in pursuit of a new contract? Given his alleged role in driving Gary Johnson out he is in no position to lecture anyone about loyalty. Without Gary Johnson he would not be playing at this level and coining the money he is. Carey and the players wanted Millen as manager yet are still not putting in a regular shift for him; perhaps they could show their loyalty to him by actually putting in a 100% every game? Of course they may have wanted Millen as manager because they knew he would give them an easy time. I fully expect the usual suspects to have their guaranteed starting places next season (according to Keith after all McAllister is brilliant and of course Louis is the self-styled Mr Bristol City) with nice new contracts in their back pockets. Actually expecting them to perform in return is it seems wholly unreasonable. and who was it who said "we're only in it for the money" ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Can anyone actually critisise any of Carey's performances this season??? I can't think of many/any games where he's had a stinker and if anything his problems have been more to do with his ability and not his commitement, there are other players who's commitment you can question, but I wouldn't put Louis in that list. As for his part in the Plymouth incident, as Club Captain you stand up and speak for the rest of the squad. People can attack Carey all they like for his part in that role, but it was Gary Johnson who got Gary Johnson sacked and no one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilos Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Can anyone actually critisise any of Carey's performances this season??? I can't think of many/any games where he's had a stinker and if anything his problems have been more to do with his ability and not his commitement, there are other players who's commitment you can question, but I wouldn't put Louis in that list. As for his part in the Plymouth incident, as Club Captain you stand up and speak for the rest of the squad. People can attack Carey all they like for his part in that role, but it was Gary Johnson who got Gary Johnson sacked and no one else. According to SL it was the fans too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oops Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 I find myself asking what input the far more experienced Steve Wigley has regarding team selection and tactics. Surely with Millen being new to management he turns to his assistant for advice and counsel? To blame Millen alone for his lack of tactical nous seems harsh in the extreme, and the senior players surely must take at least some responsibilty also. If Millen is badly advised by the frankly anonymous and mysteriously silent Steve Wigley, then Wigley needs to be the focus of some criticism as well. Millen is obviously a nice bloke, but nice blokes generally don't have the charisma or presence to inspire their team to perform better when needed. The players may want to play for him, but can they up their performance by 10 or 15% because they fear a fergie style bollocking after the match? Don't think so. To have a manager who is regarded as a soft touch and never publicly criticises a poor performance by his team or an individual must be an underperforming players dream. What they need is a swift and powerful kick in the slats by Millen and Wigley, and reminded of their responsibility to the club, the fans, and their professional integrity. The number of players who seem to stagnate at City worries me. Marvin Elliott is half the player he was when he arrived, Clarkson (illness aside) was a Scottish international with a burgeoning reputation north of the border, and our former youth players who should really be in the first team picture are injury prone passengers. No-one gives the impression that they are burning with desire to further their careers at a higher level, they all (Maynard excepted) appear to have decided that mid-table championship football is as good as they're going to get, and play accordingly. You can tell that Leeds players are HUNGRY for Premier League football, as are the welsh bastards, Forest also. When you combine lack of motivation, a rookie manager and his phantom-like assistant, poor tactics, and a general air of "comfort zone" with the players, it is a recipe for disaster i think. Something needs to happen soon, otherwise we may find ourselves in serious danger, and not just on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchay Red Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Can anyone actually critisise any of Carey's performances this season??? No, I think he is still one of our best defenders, but these days unfortunately becomming more and more injury prone and age takes its toll on speed and fitness etc. I can't think of many/any games where he's had a stinker and if anything his problems have been more to do with his ability and not his commitement, there are other players who's commitment you can question, but I wouldn't put Louis in that list. Loius is City through and through. Ok it's given him a fantastic career and set him up for the rest of his life financially, but he is one of the few who really plays for the shirt. As for his part in the Plymouth incident, as Club Captain you stand up and speak for the rest of the squad. People can attack Carey all they like for his part in that role, but it was Gary Johnson who got Gary Johnson sacked and no one else. Agreed. I don't think anyone outside the playing squad really knows what went on in the dressing room as GJ was clearly losing the plot and apparently resorting to more and more bullying tactics with certain players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Unbelievable that Carey's coming in for stick. People always bang on about how he should act more "captain-like" and that's exactly what he's done. He's just stuck up for the Manager and Chairman, what basically any Captain would do in this situation. What did you expect him to do say Millen's useless and Landsdown's a c ** t?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 It's not the general consensus that it takes a manager at least 2 seasons to make his mark. It's taken Dalglish about a month to do that at Liverpool, it's taken Sven 3-4 months at Leicester and it took Gary Johnson about 6 months at City. Precisely. And here are a few points from Carey's remarks in which, frankly, he would have been better saying nothing for all his contradictions... 1. He praised Coppell and his tactics and training methods, despite being disappointed he left etc, only to then go on and say he left the club in a complete mess... So, from a great set up and organisation to a right mess in a couple of months? Come on. 2. He has definitely been asked this season, on more than one occasion, if the off the field stop/go with the stadium is a distraction to the actual football.. he says no. Now he says it has caused disruption. To somehow deflect blame from the playing and coaching staff. He goes on about our Chairman being under severe restraints?.. we are all in a recession pit but SL still backs his manager with new signings and we are all grateful for that so what is he on about ? Cannot blame Carey for his remark on cost cutting vis a vis gates I suppose since he is a footballer and not a financial brain but SL has made it clear time and time again that this business model is not sustainable at this level and of course impossible one level higher so one has to invest long term to achieve that; what is happening now then according to Carey is that our chairman is making short term cost savings which, by definition, include a cheaper management team for the sake of long term gain. Or, put another way, everything our Chairman has strived for with this club he is putting in jeopardy because results do not lie. or put another way even Carey is being either patronising to our chairman or disingenuous or both. That is all conjecture and open to opinion but one thing it most certainly is and that is a condescending diatribe to the life long supporters who invest vast sums of money year in and year out greatly disproportionate to their incomes. I think Carey needs to think a bit harder before he writes such carp next time or not say anything at all. These guys are in a pit and the more they come out with such remarks the deeper they will need to dig. Very disappointed with Carey over this. Perhaps he is well intentioned or am i being too generous? I think so because he is no mug.. or is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Can anyone actually critisise any of Carey's performances this season??? I can't think of many/any games where he's had a stinker and if anything his problems have been more to do with his ability and not his commitement, there are other players who's commitment you can question, but I wouldn't put Louis in that list. As for his part in the Plymouth incident, as Club Captain you stand up and speak for the rest of the squad. People can attack Carey all they like for his part in that role, but it was Gary Johnson who got Gary Johnson sacked and no one else. Of course silly of me to forget footballers are never responsible for anything they do on or off the pitch. It's always the Manager, the Chairman, the fans, the media or whoever. Managers get the sack, players carry on as before. Keith will find out just how loyal they are if and when the chips are really down and especially if he ever dares to criticise them. If push comes to shove will he go or will they? Keith may feel he's the players' mate now but being a nice guy will be of little or no help to him I'm afraid if the players decide they want him out. David James revealed in a recent column how players go about getting Managers sacked. Commendably honest and revealing of him but what struck me was the fact that at no point did he suggest this was anything but a good thing. Ultimately players look after themselves and will do whatever they think necessary to protect their personal interests. Getting a vote of confidence from the players is as bad as getting one from the Chairman I suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webzcas Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 This Daavros, is obviously one of the 15 that believes KM is not up for the job. Then again, I also believe we should have kept GJ. There has to be a major clearout in the summer and I am afraid that includes KM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Do you know what Louis?, You are right, so if it is not the the management team it must be the overpaid pussies who actually turn in these abject performances that are to blame and cannot convert the coaching and tactics of the management team into results the question is Louis what are you and the rest of the squad going to do about it?. stop talking sense now Esmond, c'mon..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Results wise - Millen is okay, doing the bare minimum. But tactically he just seems clueless - the players he has brought in have been very good (credit to him for that) but I think we'll be relegation candidates next season if we keep him on - thats why I want him to go at the end of the season. A manager does deserve 2 years to build a team - but at what expense? our championship status? no thanks. Well said Riaz. We need a complete clear out of coaching/management staff and a good half dozen players at LEAST shifting out in the summer as well. League 1 looms the longer Millen's clueless tactics are left in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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