allyolly Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 A comfortable win today and the rather predictable negativity it seems from most on here. There seems to be a huge gap in what we can realistically expect to achieve compared to what many seem to believe to to be a divine right. From my perspective and in no particular order...... We are currently in 16th place and 10 points off relegation when we could easily have been 20th and only 4 points clear tonight Our best player made his first start of the season only 5 days ago and has already scored twice There are 5 teams below us with more recent experience of top flight football 5 of the 8 teams below us average bigger attendances than us Our relatively inexperienced manager won manager of the month in his 4th month in permanent charge of the club and has the potential to succeed i we give him the chance We have some brilliant young players who can take the club forward Not even going to discuss COP!!**$$ and where we have come since then There are so many reasons for optimism if we can be bothered to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuedgeRed Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Bottom in Oct (cuz of coppout) now 10 pts clear of bottom 3. Signed some great players, now we have a good squad (still needs strengthening in a few places) I can never remember such an exciting bunch of forwards! KM just needs to learn how to achieve consistency - we've shown that we can compete with the best in the division - he just needs to get that out of the players week after week. Things are looking up I say. Could be a lot worse. Just ask Phil Brown or Mickey Adams - they were brought in to turn things around and are now in deep sh#t. Could have happened to us if we got rid of KM and panic appointed some mercenary manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economou Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Of course there were the (cliched) 'positives' arising from yesterday, the return of Nicky, improved form of Clarkson and moving up the league with a welcome home win. I'm guessing the reason for the negativity was purely the standard of play, which not for the first time this season, was generally uninspiring and, at times, embarrasingly poor. I realise the win was the most important aspect of yesterday and am grateful for that but, as Spudski put it on another thread, it was boring. I hate saying that but IMO it's true. Even Keith said once the first goal went in the tempo, for some reason, dropped, he had no explanation why. That, to me, is a worrying comment as it infers that the players still aren't listening to him. We've now played 17 games at home this season and have played well in about 25% of those, Reading, Cardiff, Shef Utd, possibly QPR and Derby. I realy hope that your vision of the future becomes reality but will reserve judgement at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 The bottom line is that many City fans have become accustomed to relatively successfull seasons over the last few years even if the fayre on display in most of the last two seasons was dire. Because of that a tough season like this one is hard to take and we see knee-jerk reactions to Millens appointment despite most fans being aware that he'd inherited an unbalanced and disrupted squad. Maynard was long term injured and we've seen recently what an important player his is. Many simply lack patience and don't grasp just how difficult a job Millen took on. They forget that Millen kept us up last season in the 8 games that he was in charge. City were in free fall and had Johnson stayed having completely lost the plot and the dressing room then City would have gone down. Millen has strengthened the squad despite only having one window to do it with perminent deals and used the loan market well with Caulker and Keogh. City are now 10 points above drop zone and in the last 3 games have looked a better and more solid outfit. I'm sure that we'll be in the Championship next season even though its not mathmatically certain yet. We don't look like relgation fodder any more. Millen will have much to do with around 10 players out of contract in the summer. Hopefully he'll shift several out and Steve Lansdown will have a war chest with which to strenghthen. Next season Millen with have a level playing field on which to build a team and if he fails then there will no excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuedgeRed Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 How is that "cuz of coppout"? He had all of two games in charge.. Millen has been in charge since August. surely both positions are down to the current incumbent? Yeah OK, there's probably more truth to your statement than mine, although Keith has had more time to influence team personnel now, than he did then. I bow down to your knowledge of other championship sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 The bottom line is that many City fans have become accustomed to relatively successfull seasons over the last few years yes thanks to Gary Johnson for that even if the fayre on display in most of the last two seasons was dire. so you keep saying just to justify your vendetta.Its bollocks though Because of that a tough season like this one is hard to take and we see knee-jerk reactions to Millens appointment despite most fans being aware that he'd inherited an unbalanced and disrupted squad. Maynard was long term injured and we've seen recently what an important player his is. Many simply lack patience and don't grasp just how difficult a job Millen took on. an unbalanced squad that last season you called the strongest youd seen at Ashton gate for many many years. You point the finger at fans for being impatient. But you called Gary Johnson a conferance manager after he'd been in charge 5 months and taken over a team at the bottom of league 1 that had just been hammered 7-1 at Swansea. Perhaps you lacked patience and simply didnt grasp how difficult a job Johnson took on. Funny how you can see the need for patience now but were the first to lose patience with Johnson. Maybe you learnt a lesson from being completely wrong about the previous manager. They forget that Millen kept us up last season in the 8 games that he was in charge. City were in free fall and had Johnson stayed having completely lost the plot and the dressing room then City would have gone down. City were on 45 points when Johnson left. 48 was enough to stay up. How you can say City WOULD of gone down when we needed 3 points from 9 games to stay up. Millen did well but we wouldn't of gone down. Of course Johnson had to go at that time but stop re writing history to suit your agenda. Millen has strengthened the squad despite only having one window to do it with perminent deals and used the loan market well with Caulker and Keogh. he has. All he needs to d onow is get them playing well. Something we havent seen much of so far this season. City are now 10 points above drop zone and in the last 3 games have looked a better and more solid outfit. I'm sure that we'll be in the Championship next season even though its not mathmatically certain yet. We don't look like relgation fodder any more. agreed Ithink we will be ok and the games after we are safe will be key to showing what the players can do with the pressure off to see if Millen has what it takes to build next season. Millen will have much to do with around 10 players out of contract in the summer. Hopefully he'll shift several out and Steve Lansdown will have a war chest with which to strenghthen. I havent heard about the war chest. If the stadium doesnt get the go ahead then I doubt Lansdown will pump huge sums in for a club he cant take where he wants to. Next season Millen with have a level playing field on which to build a team and if he fails then there will no excuses. oh you might turn on him next season if he doesnt get us flying early on? bet he's looking forward to that having seen first hand your treatment of Johnson on here and in the ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redcityman Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 How is that "cuz of coppout"? He had all of two games in charge.. Millen has been in charge since August. surely both positions are down to the current incumbent? So maybe in the summer we should forget preseason after all according to you it shouldnt have any bearing on the coming season, also why don't we go and sign three players on high wages who won't be good enough or interested enough to play. Loooking at Millens transfer record can you honestly say had Millen been given the money that coppout wasted he wouldn't have signed better players! maybe just maybe we wouldn't have been so bloody unbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon79 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 A comfortable win today and the rather predictable negativity it seems from most on here. There seems to be a huge gap in what we can realistically expect to achieve compared to what many seem to believe to to be a divine right. From my perspective and in no particular order...... We are currently in 16th place and 10 points off relegation when we could easily have been 20th and only 4 points clear tonight Our best player made his first start of the season only 5 days ago and has already scored twice There are 5 teams below us with more recent experience of top flight football 5 of the 8 teams below us average bigger attendances than us Our relatively inexperienced manager won manager of the month in his 4th month in permanent charge of the club and has the potential to succeed i we give him the chance We have some brilliant young players who can take the club forward Not even going to discuss COP!!**$$ and where we have come since then There are so many reasons for optimism if we can be bothered to look. Good post. And may i add, very sensible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Everyone would enjoy their football more if they had less expectation. Expectation is a word I don't like, its negative and is based only on someone's imagination or preconditioned ideas of acceptability. and Its not about the past or the future, its pointless going over history and speculating about things that haven't happened yet. Its only about now and always has been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redysteadygo1 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Everyone would enjoy their football more if they had less expectation. Expectation is a word I don't like, its negative and is based only on someone's imagination or preconditioned ideas of acceptability. and Its not about the past or the future, its pointless going over history and speculating about things that haven't happened yet. Its only about now and always has been. I apologise in advance for the expectation that many of our players, who are probably being paid several thousnd pounds per week, and who presumably should be on the training ground 4/5 days per week, should be capable of; Control a ball with a decent first touch. Pass a ball to another red shirt accurately over distances of 5 - 40 yards. Take up a position for a pass that either assists a player on the ball or will provide the opportunity for a team mate to play a penetrating through ball. As often spotted and encouraged by the crowd. Retain possession in tight positions and not need acres of space to be able to carry out basic skills. Be as fit and as quick as almost every other player of visiting teams. No names mentioned, fill in your own blank spaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 The bottom line is that many City fans have become accustomed to relatively successfull seasons over the last few years Mainly due to expenditure exceeding income by about £10 million each year........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grifty Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Brown has been brought into steady the ship sure, but even he cant work miracles with a squad of over paid ( by PNE fans reckoning) players signed on massive contracts and high wages by Irvine and Ferguson from the lower leagues and ressies. Hasn't Millen done that? Why should he be expected to do any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Good post. And may i add, very sensible! sensible??? on otib??? no such thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 There is a gap, we're not the biggest club in this League- not by a long way, so it's a hard one really. Maybe we should be a few places higher and could be had Maynard been fit for the duration but perhaps we were spoilt by the playoff final season- fantastic though it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 I apologise in advance for the expectation that many of our players, who are probably being paid several thousnd pounds per week, and who presumably should be on the training ground 4/5 days per week, should be capable of; Control a ball with a decent first touch. Pass a ball to another red shirt accurately over distances of 5 - 40 yards. Take up a position for a pass that either assists a player on the ball or will provide the opportunity for a team mate to play a penetrating through ball. As often spotted and encouraged by the crowd. Retain possession in tight positions and not need acres of space to be able to carry out basic skills. Be as fit and as quick as almost every other player of visiting teams. No names mentioned, fill in your own blank spaces. I accept your apology, but who taught you about expectation? Hmm, you might actually have somthing here. yes, those wages would defiantly give us players capable of those tactics. Good work, and excellent identification of tactical playing criteria to ensure expectation is met or exceeded so we may receive endorphins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 A comfortable win today and the rather predictable negativity it seems from most on here. There seems to be a huge gap in what we can realistically expect to achieve compared to what many seem to believe to to be a divine right. From my perspective and in no particular order...... We are currently in 16th place and 10 points off relegation when we could easily have been 20th and only 4 points clear tonight Our best player made his first start of the season only 5 days ago and has already scored twice There are 5 teams below us with more recent experience of top flight football 5 of the 8 teams below us average bigger attendances than us Our relatively inexperienced manager won manager of the month in his 4th month in permanent charge of the club and has the potential to succeed i we give him the chance We have some brilliant young players who can take the club forward Not even going to discuss COP!!**$$ and where we have come since then There are so many reasons for optimism if we can be bothered to look. Exactly! However some cant!! The constant attacks by some on this forum of the manager and the chairman poorly dressed up as a debate of some kind is driving many away from the forum and of course that appears to make their voices louder. The fact is most supporters support the manager, The Chairman and the players and Bristol City Football Club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketh2nd Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 This is a sensible thread , it now looks likely Millen will keep us up and hopefully we can finish a few places high this season. Yes yesterday was a scrappy game and Scunny were there for the taking and had we upped the tempo could of been 4 or 5. But I think most of us are relieved that we won seeing as we haven't won at home since new years. We even played better against Leeds, for some reason we don't play the fast tempo game against the smaller teams which is a tad bizarre. Be happy if we stay up finish a little higher and then build upon this for next season and hopefully provide entertaining football as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 as far as I am concerned, we are stil establishing ourselves in this division. The first season was superb and it was great for all city fans. However, it could have been the worst thing to happen to this club because the expectations went sky high. We have no god given right to finish in a certain postion. Clubs have been in ths division a lot longer than we have, and as i write this, we are above a team who were in the UEFA cup final in 2006, at this time, we had finished just outside the playoffs in League 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 This is a sensible thread , it now looks likely Millen will keep us up and hopefully we can finish a few places high this season. Yes yesterday was a scrappy game and Scunny were there for the taking and had we upped the tempo could of been 4 or 5. But I think most of us are relieved that we won seeing as we haven't won at home since new years. We even played better against Leeds, for some reason we don't play the fast tempo game against the smaller teams which is a tad bizarre. Be happy if we stay up finish a little higher and then build upon this for next season and hopefully provide entertaining football as well. True of the majority of home games imo. The players come out of the dressing room apparently utterly flat and can barely raise a trot for 45 minutes. No pressure is put on the opposition with or without the ball. Contrast with Swansea who, apart from their excellent passing, never give the opposition a moment's breathing space. An opponent with the ball immediately has 2 or 3 players on him. With us it's stand 5 yards off and let them play. Play at a high tempo and pressurise the opposition and you get the crowd behind you as well. So why do we rarely do so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuedgeRed Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 How has he had more time to influence things? he has been at the club as a coach for some time, admittedly not as manager but still. On on side you have people who say that he should do this and that and should be in control because he has had literally years of influencing the current set up, but on the other side people are saying give him a calendar year to sort things out regarding imposing his will on the club. I didn't actually say "influence things" I said influence team personnel. I was thinking more in terms of the players he has brought in. Not too sure about how much say he would have as an assistant on buying players - whether GJs or Copout's ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redysteadygo1 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 I accept your apology, but who taught you about expectation? Hmm, you might actually have somthing here. yes, those wages would defiantly give us players capable of those tactics. Good work, and excellent identification of tactical playing criteria to ensure expectation is met or exceeded so we may receive endorphins. Self taught I'm afraid CH. I consider the failings I have identified as basic skills for a pro footballer, and these have contributed, over the past few seasons, to me having to witness the worst ball retention side in over 55 years of watching City. Now, tactics are a totally different kettle of fish so please don't start me on them. From your forum name I imagine where you get your relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Our record in the last 23 league matches is w9 d8 l6 pts 35. That's 70 points in a season if that form is maintained, close to play-off form. Given the Coppell effect, I think this is very creditable andcsuggest that with some improvements to the squad we could realistically challenge next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Explain this Coppell effect, everyone talks about it, no one wants to pin point it other than he 'messed us up and our signings were rubbish' would some one like to embellish how exactly as he was manager for a league and cup game only Why 23 games? Millen has been in charge of 33 league games, do the first ten not count for some reason? His record over the last 23 is certainly credible. First 10, not so good to say the least but perhaps part of it was a learning curve. All managers will make mistakes- especially relative rookies. The key is identifying them, learning from them and rectifying them. Hopefully Millen has done this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizzleRed Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 I don't see how you can give Coppout any credit for signing Adomah, as we had apparently been tracking him last season. What about the allegation that David James was signed by SL and Coppout wasn't keen on the idea? Don't know if you saw any of our pre-season games but I can tell you we were sh*t and tbh we were looking totally disjointed. I just hoped it would be one of those situations when we get a terrible pre-season and then followed by some decent performances once the real action started ...... how wrong was I? Make no mistake, Coppell did a lot of damage while he was here and appeared to have totally lost the plot with regards to football management, which is probably why he pi$ed off. I'm certainly not convinced about KM, but don't underestimate the problems the bloke was left with and for that he deserves time to prove what he is capable of before people start writing him off. Unfortunately we're in a age where a lot of people have zero patience and aren't content to hope we get some success in the future, THEY WANT IT NOW! How has he had more time to influence things? he has been at the club as a coach for some time, admittedly not as manager but still. On on side you have people who say that he should do this and that and should be in control because he has had literally years of influencing the current set up, but on the other side people are saying give him a calendar year to sort things out regarding imposing his will on the club. Honestly, I cant see the 2nd view as the point of a manager is to show who is 'boss' early doors, it doesnt have to be some foolhardy grenade thing nore direct or luggish as there are a zillion different management techniques out there. However for some to say that he hasnt imposed himself yet, is a bit of a strange thing to say, i dont get how he hasnt as has been working with them for some time. Er, I responded to Quedgered. If you want to forget a preseason, feel welcome??? Iam assuming you are referring to Coppell again, as you didnt mention it by name. How was the pre season such a complete disaster then in terms of making a hang over until the end of October? These three players, Iam guessing you mean Hunt., Cisse and Stewart.. Two of them played in our win yesterday, one is becoming a solid part of midfield. What are you trying to say about them? Then what about the other Coppell signings, James and Adomah? I'll look at Millen's transfer record of7 players or so in and spent around 1million quid if not more, the squad is still unbalanced despite having a transfer window and a half to sign new players to rectify that. he has signed 4 strikers ( Keogh, Stead, Pitman, Vokes) 2 Left Wingers (Rose, Woolford) 1 Defender (Caulker) this season and he signed Sawyer on Loan last season as well during his caretaker tenure Millen has effectively got rid of 3 Strikers (Akinde, Styvar, Haynes) 1 Midfielder ( G. Williams) 1 Left Back ( T Williams). How has this been addressing the unbalancing issues, when largely its been positional like for like? Yes and No, Brown hasnt been given any money whatsoever to improve his squad in terms of fees so has had to build a team of freebies and loans to get things going, and has only been in charge for a little over a month. Millen has paid fees for Stead, Pitman and Woolford which according to a number of sources is over 1 million quid. has been at the helm for 6/7 months and has been entrenched at the club for a number of years and will know the coaches and training methods as well as most of the players inside out. He isnt new to the set up and aside from Wigley has made no changes to a setup that has been 'largely' successful ( on our terms) for about 5 years. So to be where we are suggests something hasnt gone to plan. Now should that be the manager who should be expected to do better or is it just down to the players who have been at fault? negating the point of a management team in the first place. Its not a question of of blame culture. We haven't performed this season for a myriad of reasons, when looked at in other forms of business or what ever, people start with the management and look down wards as to why performance isnt of required standard (remember I think it was promotion or playoffs or some such that was promised along with a new era with the stadium and what have you. This approach wasnt ever retracted until relatively recently as it became clear that things werent going to plan. Our fans seem to discount Millen as being able to be changed as we have already had one change this season and would spoil some kind of momentum, or at least thats the impression I get Im not advocating he goes this second, neither am I saying he is the man for the job either, but the whole thing has to be looked at from top downwards along with the entire coaching staff and move on from there. If people are happy with the way things are on the pitch or how the unbalanced team has been sorted out or, how players have come on as the season has progressed then, Millen is definitely the man for the job, if you dont think we have advanced tactically or players have moved on or that Millen has addressed any of the ongoing issues then he isnt the man for the job. Unfortunately the camps are so polarised and so ignorant of whats presented of them its rare to see a rational view, with people expecting Millen to be called the messiah or vilified. Keef is our manager currently, but is he right for BCFC to move forwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuedgeRed Posted February 27, 2011 Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 If thats the case, he has only signed Woolford and Keogh since then ( end of october) and that was during the last transfer window. The rest were brought in during the summer window and late september. See my last answer re personnel he has changed? are you happy he has addressed those issues given that to some there werent any up front, what about other long standing ones that havent been addressed he has let one specialist left back go ( yes he wasnt very good) with no direct positional replacement in an area which has been identfied as an area of need In other words are you happy that he has messed about with the front line with the expense of long standing issues elsewhere? He has tried to address some of the issues elsewhere e..g Preston full back. As you have said above, some arrivals were in late Sep. Are you suggesting that these new players just slot in and change the team immediately? Because I would suggest that these things take some time and that we are maybe starting to see the results as of now. I would also say that Copout's departure was a massive blow to the club from top to bottom and was bound to affect the performances - not that they were great to start with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyolly Posted February 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2011 Explain this Coppell effect, everyone talks about it, no one wants to pin point it other than he 'messed us up and our signings were rubbish' would some one like to embellish how exactly as he was manager for a league and cup game only Why 23 games? Millen has been in charge of 33 league games, do the first ten not count for some reason? I think its impossible to pin point the impact of Coppell walking out but I don't think anyone could see it as a positive. Given the timing of SC departure and need to reorganise 5 days into a new season, the money spent on transfers that could have used differently and the ask on the players to adapt to a new manager psychologically I think it is only to be expected that it would take time for the club as a whole to recover. I am petty sure none of us probably just though oh well on we go that Wednesday morning after the Southend game. Statistics don't tell the whole story of course but I think there are worse places to start than the least 23 games and on that evidence is it really so bad? The club has become accustomed to looking at blocks of 10 games under GJ, 23 games is half a season and surely even the fiercest Millen critic would allow him some time to adapt to the challenge of the job? We are making progress and I am sure that Millen is aware of the need to play more attractive stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.