spudski Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 ...SL has gone way up in my estimations. It takes a real man to admit to his mistakes, and then try to focus on rectifying them. I've said all along that SL is a great businessman, but not great at making football decisions. He say's his decision to step down was based in part, on mistakes he made in running the Clubs affairs, especially in the transfer market. He reflects that on looking back, he would have not made the same decisions today, especially on expensive loan players and ageing players. He say's by moving away from the day to day affairs, of running the Club, he will be able to make a better judgement call on transfers. A great statement by the man...'The problem with this football club is me, and the solution for the club is me'. I have total respect for a man who can see his weaknesses, admit them, then try to turn them into his strengths by adapting a better mentality, and surrounding himself in experience. Fair play to Steve Lansdown...You've gone up in my Estimation 10 fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTR Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 ...SL has gone way up in my estimations. It takes a real man to admit to his mistakes, and then try to focus on rectifying them. I've said all along that SL is a great businessman, but not great at making football decisions. He say's his decision to step down was based in part, on mistakes he made in running the Clubs affairs, especially in the transfer market. He reflects that on looking back, he would have not made the same decisions today, especially on expensive loan players and ageing players. He say's by moving away from the day to day affairs, of running the Club, he will be able to make a better judgement call on transfers. A great statement by the man...'The problem with this football club is me, and the solution for the club is me'. I have total respect for a man who can see his weaknesses, admit them, then try to turn them into his strengths by adapting a better mentality, and surrounding himself in experience. Fair play to Steve Lansdown...You've gone up in my Estimation 10 fold. Heart ruled the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 ...SL has gone way up in my estimations. It takes a real man to admit to his mistakes, and then try to focus on rectifying them. I've said all along that SL is a great businessman, but not great at making football decisions. He say's his decision to step down was based in part, on mistakes he made in running the Clubs affairs, especially in the transfer market. He reflects that on looking back, he would have not made the same decisions today, especially on expensive loan players and ageing players. He say's by moving away from the day to day affairs, of running the Club, he will be able to make a better judgement call on transfers. A great statement by the man...'The problem with this football club is me, and the solution for the club is me'. I have total respect for a man who can see his weaknesses, admit them, then try to turn them into his strengths by adapting a better mentality, and surrounding himself in experience. Fair play to Steve Lansdown...You've gone up in my Estimation 10 fold. Good points SL got too close to Hoskins and now looking back he can see that GJ didn't want to strengthen the team when we in a good position during the Jan window in our first Championship season when we were at the top of the league when we should have capitalised, pushed on, and got in the strikers we needed and made sure of promotion rather than just hoping for it. He allowed GJ/PJ to spend money on the wrong type of player (Trundle too old /no return on the fee) and too many mediocre players (Styver, Williams, etc). Coppell also of course made expensive mistakes. He's also taken note that teams like Burnley and Blackpool have won promotion and spent a lot less than we have with good management and wise recriutment of quality players who didn't cost a lot (Adam and Clark Carlisle for example). CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted March 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Good points SL got too close to Hoskins and now looking back he can see that GJ didn't want to strengthen the team when we in a good position during the Jan window in our first Championship season when we were at the top of the league when we should have capitalised, pushed on, and got in the strikers we needed and made sure of promotion rather than just hoping for it. He allowed GJ/PJ to spend money on the wrong type of player (Trundle too old /no return on the fee) and too many mediocre players (Styver, Williams, etc). Coppell also of course made expensive mistakes. He's also taken note that teams like Burnley and Blackpool have won promotion and spent a lot less than we have with good management and wise recriutment of quality players who didn't cost a lot (Adam and Clark Carlisle for example). CR I think the aquisitions that GJ made in his last two seasons, are the one's that haunt us the most. Coppells signings of Cisse, Stewart, Adomah and James have all come good imho. It's only Hunt who has yet to prove himself. The two Irish lads, are maybe works in progress. Looking forward to some quality summer signings now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CotswoldRed Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 Totally agree with Spudski. And SL needs no lessons from anyone here. He'll know how to learn from his mistakes and we'll all see the ongoing benefit in time. Anyone who's worth more than £500m .......... feel free to criticise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 What happens now regarding big signings? Won't happen as he isn't bankrolling them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCider Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 What happens now regarding big signings? Won't happen as he isn't bankrolling them? He still owns the club. Pretty sure that Millen will have the financial backing to improve the squad, but at the same time won't spend stupidly in terms of fees or wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTR Posted March 10, 2011 Report Share Posted March 10, 2011 SL said he will back the board,but it will not be on older players or short term expensive loans.young hungry players from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 Agree with OP. Thing is, someone may be very good at business and have made a lot of cash in that area but that doesn't always transfer over to football, as spudski says. He perhaps at times didn't make the best footballing decisions (managerial appointments). Financially on the other hand though, he's done well here. As I always say, a managerial appointment is one of the most important decisions a chairman can make. Get that right and things are rolling along nicely. However if it is incorrect then difficulties can arise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 I'm sure that Stephen Lansdown is a decent bloke, but as far as I know he hasn't discovered a cure for the common cold or brought world peace, so can we move on a bit? He is a very rich man who is lucky enough to have been able to indulge his passions doing something he likes and, assuming that his interest in Bristol City isnt purely philanthropic, presumably with the hope of making a few bob along the way. During his period as Chairman we've gone up a division, which is a good thing. I think he's been a good chairman, but certainly not infallible and has made a few mistakes (which he is now being revered for admitting having made). I don't buy into the financial structure of football today, so I don't have great admiration of him when I look at the losses we have incurred over the last few years. However, I accept he has been passionate about the club and has put his money where his mouth is, which shows that he is indeed a decent bloke. Can we move on now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted March 11, 2011 Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 I'm sure that Stephen Lansdown is a decent bloke, but as far as I know he hasn't discovered a cure for the common cold or brought world peace, so can we move on a bit? He is a very rich man who is lucky enough to have been able to indulge his passions doing something he likes and, assuming that his interest in Bristol City isnt purely philanthropic, presumably with the hope of making a few bob along the way. During his period as Chairman we've gone up a division, which is a good thing. I think he's been a good chairman, but certainly not infallible and has made a few mistakes (which he is now being revered for admitting having made). I don't buy into the financial structure of football today, so I don't have great admiration of him when I look at the losses we have incurred over the last few years. However, I accept he has been passionate about the club and has put his money where his mouth is, which shows that he is indeed a decent bloke. Can we move on now? A brave post! I, for one, applaud you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted March 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2011 I'm sure that Stephen Lansdown is a decent bloke, but as far as I know he hasn't discovered a cure for the common cold or brought world peace, so can we move on a bit? He is a very rich man who is lucky enough to have been able to indulge his passions doing something he likes and, assuming that his interest in Bristol City isnt purely philanthropic, presumably with the hope of making a few bob along the way. During his period as Chairman we've gone up a division, which is a good thing. I think he's been a good chairman, but certainly not infallible and has made a few mistakes (which he is now being revered for admitting having made). I don't buy into the financial structure of football today, so I don't have great admiration of him when I look at the losses we have incurred over the last few years. However, I accept he has been passionate about the club and has put his money where his mouth is, which shows that he is indeed a decent bloke. Can we move on now? Again someone who hasn't read or understood the OP... No one has said they admire him for the losses he has incurred. I admire him for the fact that he has admitted to his faults and weaknesses, and is looking to rectify them. Nothing more, nothing less. Also the Club don't have losses, they are in SL's name, and he is looking to recoup those losses through the new Stadium, a gamble which he has said, he was willing to take. Move on by all means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukejones2 Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 ...Also the Club don't have losses, ... How do you come to that conclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted March 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 How do you come to that conclusion? They are in his name, not the clubs. This is knowledge that every City fan should know. He's only said this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 They are in his name, not the clubs. This is knowledge that every City fan should know. He's only said this. But the club owes Lansdown the sum of those debts... So it may not be a pressing concern to pay him back... But we are in debt to SL. The money he's pumped into the club hasn't always been "gifts" a lot of it is in the form of interest free loans as far as I could tell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 They are in his name, not the clubs. This is knowledge that every City fan should know. He's only said this. No they aren't and no he hasn't. The losses are on the clubs books. He may choose to invest to meet them as he has done before but make no mistake, they are the club's losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 But the club owes Lansdown the sum of those debts... So it may not be a pressing concern to pay him back... But we are in debt to SL. The money he's pumped into the club hasn't always been "gifts" a lot of it is in the form of interest free loans as far as I could tell? In the past he has made director's loans for loan stock which means if the club doesn't repay the loan stock converts into ordinary shares increasing his shareholding. You could consider the way he has over invested in something unlikely to make him a return to be a gift but it has had the effect of diluting the shareholdings of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCider Posted March 12, 2011 Report Share Posted March 12, 2011 No they aren't and no he hasn't. The losses are on the clubs books. He may choose to invest to meet them as he has done before but make no mistake, they are the club's losses. True. A lot of the money he has invested are also loans, so he could in theory ask for it back at any time (that said, there may be time restrictions). In the end though, it comes down to trust. Do you trust SL to do what's right for the club? I would unequivocally say yes to that question, after all he has done for BCFC so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashton Fred Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Don't forget Jon Lansdown is on the new board. Long term planning by SL to ensure continuity. He has openly said he will back the club financially and I don't think we have any reason not to believe this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Colin says in the Sunday Independent today that our wage bill is the 8th or 9th highest in the Championship. That is unsustainable. Colin sees Reading as the model; they have a much smaller wage bill and squad but are still a good, attractive side. Steve talks about a policy of buying young up and coming players but that was what he said after Danny Wilson left. You can see why he is annoyed with himself in letting his desire to back his managers override a sensible policy. I trust fans will accept that we will not be splashing out big money trying to make the Prem and don't regard a sensible approach as lacking ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Hocking Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Colin says in the Sunday Independent today that our wage bill is the 8th or 9th highest in the Championship. That is unsustainable. Colin sees Reading as the model; they have a much smaller wage bill and squad but are still a good, attractive side. Steve talks about a policy of buying young up and coming players but that was what he said after Danny Wilson left. You can see why he is annoyed with himself in letting his desire to back his managers override a sensible policy. I trust fans will accept that we will not be splashing out big money trying to make the Prem and don't regard a sensible approach as lacking ambition. Wow - that is not good news. It shows that we have clearly underachieved over the last two seasons (and GJ carries the can much more so than KM). Reading are indeed the model for us to follow - which is why we signed Coppell of course! Lansdown and Madjeski are similar characters and if Steve can build us a stadium on a par with/ better than Madjeski's then the parallels between the two clubs will be there for all to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Colin says in the Sunday Independent today that our wage bill is the 8th or 9th highest in the Championship. That is unsustainable. Colin sees Reading as the model; they have a much smaller wage bill and squad but are still a good, attractive side. Steve talks about a policy of buying young up and coming players but that was what he said after Danny Wilson left. You can see why he is annoyed with himself in letting his desire to back his managers override a sensible policy. I trust fans will accept that we will not be splashing out big money trying to make the Prem and don't regard a sensible approach as lacking ambition. This. Hope to god people don't expect us to e spending at the same level we have over the last few seasons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Colin says in the Sunday Independent today that our wage bill is the 8th or 9th highest in the Championship. That is unsustainable. Colin sees Reading as the model; they have a much smaller wage bill and squad but are still a good, attractive side. Steve talks about a policy of buying young up and coming players but that was what he said after Danny Wilson left. You can see why he is annoyed with himself in letting his desire to back his managers override a sensible policy. I trust fans will accept that we will not be splashing out big money trying to make the Prem and don't regard a sensible approach as lacking ambition. This. Hope to god people don't expect us to e spending at the same level we have over the last few seasons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 How the **** is it so high tho? Most the squad are lower league players or CCC journeymen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdave60 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 How the **** is it so high tho? Most the squad are lower league players or CCC journeymen! Your question says it all . Garry Johnson was allowed to bring old journeymen dross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC_Red Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 9th highest wage bill and we finsihed 4th, 10th and 10th so far. So roughly where we should be then if you base it on wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 It really ought not to be a surprise to anybody how large our wage bill is. BCFC AGLTD Total 03-04 £4.2m 0 £4.2m 04-05 £4.2m 0 £4.2m 05-06 £3.1m £1.1m £4.2m 06-07 £4.1m £1.5m £5.6m 07-08 £6.9m £1.6m £8.5m 08-09 £8.7m £1.6m £10.3m 09-10 £12.1m £1.7m £13.8m That's the last few years (the non football wages were moved to Ashton Gate Ltd for 05-06). This is the major reason Johnson had to go and why he lost my support. He spent vast amounts of money delivering less and less on the field. Note that this is just wages, not transfers and we averaged an outlay of £2-3m a year under him on transfers. I posted this before when people were trying to make out that we were some small time club at this level - well we sure weren't spending like it. These numbers are also why I'm so pleased with Keith Millen's work in the transfer market. It is hugely important we sign younger players who hold a value and improve and that we make use of the youth loans from the top level. Our present wage bill, which will no doubt be bigger than 09-10, can be supported if we get the stadium on line, even at this level. Without it, we are going to have a very painful time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 It really ought not to be a surprise to anybody how large our wage bill is. BCFC AGLTD Total 03-04 £4.2m 0 £4.2m 04-05 £4.2m 0 £4.2m 05-06 £3.1m £1.1m £4.2m 06-07 £4.1m £1.5m £5.6m 07-08 £6.9m £1.6m £8.5m 08-09 £8.7m £1.6m £10.3m 09-10 £12.1m £1.7m £13.8m That's the last few years (the non football wages were moved to Ashton Gate Ltd for 05-06). This is the major reason Johnson had to go and why he lost my support. He spent vast amounts of money delivering less and less on the field. Note that this is just wages, not transfers and we averaged an outlay of £2-3m a year under him on transfers. I posted this before when people were trying to make out that we were some small time club at this level - well we sure weren't spending like it. These numbers are also why I'm so pleased with Keith Millen's work in the transfer market. It is hugely important we sign younger players who hold a value and improve and that we make use of the youth loans from the top level. Our present wage bill, which will no doubt be bigger than 09-10, can be supported if we get the stadium on line, even at this level. Without it, we are going to have a very painful time. Your talking seance, Landsdown/Sextone have now realized you got to stick on 16 sometimes, build, last dream was on Coppells shoulders he told them it will not happen with the players you got and the players you wan't me to bring in, Coppell imo was what this club needed REALITY, and one day we will thank Coppell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 How the **** is it so high tho? Most the squad are lower league players or CCC journeymen! Because in the modern game average players are paid a fortune and believe they are worth every penny too. Like some other areas of life these days a lack of talent and failure are richly rewarded. Look at the cars in the players' car park. In the same article Steve talks about worrying if we don't pay the wages other clubs will get the players we want and very much blames himself for paying up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 True. A lot of the money he has invested are also loans, so he could in theory ask for it back at any time (that said, there may be time restrictions). In the end though, it comes down to trust. Do you trust SL to do what's right for the club? I would unequivocally say yes to that question, after all he has done for BCFC so far. And Steve says unequivocally today that he will dip into his own pocket to cover the deficit and he is committed as ever to financially backing the club. But he feels it was his mistake to be both main investor and Chairman as that leads him to back the manager regardless. He did the same with Danny Wilson (what is the current equivalent of the £600k he spent on Peacock for instance?) and that didn't work. By contrast Johnson got promoted on a shoestring and to the playoff final on a relative one. Only then was the policy loosened. Of course it was Steve who persuaded Johnson to pay over £2m for Maynard; does he, or anybody regret that? Mind you what Steve regrets is funding loans not transfer fees. But he makes it clear that he blames nobody but himself. Rare in a game where nobody takes responsibility for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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