Austere Times

[GrahamC]

I expect this won't get much attention due to the centre half "crisis" but here goes;

One thing that seems to have attracted very little comment during the international break is Millen's recent statement that he is looking to bring "two or three" young players in on season long loans this summer whilst also looking to run with a squad containing less senior professionals next season.

I think this is interesting on several levels, firstly because despite the fact that we still have 30 players of our own, at least 10 of those could definitely be classed as inexperienced and quite a bit of work has already been done in terms of reducing the squad.

Secondly because it implies that even if say, 3 senior professionals leave us this summer, that less than that number will join.

Finally it is the first evidence to me of the impact of Sexstone and Lansdown's recent comments about getting increased vale for money and taking a less cavalier attitude towards arrivals.

Since the season has started Tom Williams, Gavin Williams and Danny Haynes have all left us permanently, whilst it appears pretty obvious now that Ivan Sproule has no future at the club; so that begs the question that as we can also expect a few of the youngsters plus John Akinde to go, who are the other senior professionals that are likely to move on this summer.

For me there are only 3 likely candidates other than Sproule;

Nicky Hunt, with another year left on his contract will presumably go provided we can reach an agreement with him on a pay off;

Louis Carey is out of contract this summer and whilst he has been a brilliant servant, at 34 with an increasing number of injuries maybe his long City career is sadly now at an end.

Finally, there is Lee Johnson who will be 30 in August and who is clearly not a first choice pick since Millen has taken over.

The other possibles are Jamal Campbell-Ryce, but Millen seems to value him as a back up player, especially with Sproule certain to be on his way.

Jamie McAllister, who is apparently under contract for one more year and although at 33 it may be the right time for him to move on, but unless he has a move back to Scotland lined up I really can't see him going.

Also I cannot see Damion Stewart going either, simply as he is just one year into a three year deal and the only first ball winning centre half we have, though a month or so ago I'd have said we'd have probably jumped at the chance of moving him on if we could.

If this is all correct then seeing as many of the names above are still under contract for 2011/12, next season's squad will possibly only be strengthened by two experienced players at the very most, so interesting times indeed..

[Robbored]

If this is all correct then seeing as many of the names above are still under contract for 2011/12, next season's squad will possibly only be strengthened by two experienced players at the very most, so interesting times indeed..

I read somewhere that approximately 10 City players are out of contract this summer, one of whom is Carey. I don't know who the others are (no doubt someone will know) but my guess is that several will be youngsters (like the Irish lads) What impact that will have on Millens ability to move out some of the more senior and therefore higher earners is not clear.

But....Millen will be very aware that he doesn't currently have enough depth of quality to be a serious long term force next season. Maybe enough to be around the top six but definately not enough to maintain a top two slot.

I fully expect to see a left back and that missing creative midfielder join City and probably another central defender if Caulker doesn't rejoin.

I also don't take much notice of what Sexstone says in terms of finance. Sure he won't want to make the same mistakes as previously and will be far more thorough when it comes to recruiting players but should Millen approach the board with a players name then I'm sure everything within reasson will done to secure that player.

Players agents know that Steve Lansdown is loaded and will over value their players because of it. As I see it Sexstone is saying that he will be far more dilligent and cut throat when in comes to players demands and if that means losing a player ( as it did during the Jan window) then so be it. Quite right to imo.

[The Bard]

I expect this won't get much attention due to the centre half "crisis" but here goes;

One thing that seems to have attracted very little comment during the international break is Millen's recent statement that he is looking to bring "two or three" young players in on season long loans this summer whilst also looking to run with a squad containing less senior professionals next season.

I think this is interesting on several levels, firstly because despite the fact that we still have 30 players of our own, at least 10 of those could definitely be classed as inexperienced and quite a bit of work has already been done in terms of reducing the squad.

Secondly because it implies that even if say, 3 senior professionals leave us this summer, that less than that number will join.

Finally it is the first evidence to me of the impact of Sexstone and Lansdown's recent comments about getting increased vale for money and taking a less cavalier attitude towards arrivals.

Since the season has started Tom Williams, Gavin Williams and Danny Haynes have all left us permanently, whilst it appears pretty obvious now that Ivan Sproule has no future at the club; so that begs the question that as we can also expect a few of the youngsters plus John Akinde to go, who are the other senior professionals that are likely to move on this summer.

For me there are only 3 likely candidates other than Sproule;

Nicky Hunt, with another year left on his contract will presumably go provided we can reach an agreement with him on a pay off;

Louis Carey is out of contract this summer and whilst he has been a brilliant servant, at 34 with an increasing number of injuries maybe his long City career is sadly now at an end.

Finally, there is Lee Johnson who will be 30 in August and who is clearly not a first choice pick since Millen has taken over.

The other possibles are Jamal Campbell-Ryce, but Millen seems to value him as a back up player, especially with Sproule certain to be on his way.

Jamie McAllister, who is apparently under contract for one more year and although at 33 it may be the right time for him to move on, but unless he has a move back to Scotland lined up I really can't see him going.

Also I cannot see Damion Stewart going either, simply as he is just one year into a three year deal and the only first ball winning centre half we have, though a month or so ago I'd have said we'd have probably jumped at the chance of moving him on if we could.

If this is all correct then seeing as many of the names above are still under contract for 2011/12, next season's squad will possibly only be strengthened by two experienced players at the very most, so interesting times indeed..

I predict the following departures - Maynard, Clarkson, Johnson, Sproule, Nyatanga and Hunt plus a load of kids. We'll buy 3 experienced players at Centre half and centre mid as leaders plus another striker. The other gaps in the squad will be covered by loans.

I'd be surprised if JCR goes. He is versatile, and though he isn't first choice, his ability to slow the game down and keep the ball is useful. Carey may be more prone to injuries, but still has a contribution to make. Someone needs to shout back at David James.

Millen's comments might be to do with having disgruntled experienced players around who he simply doesn't want to pick. David James was talking about this in his article yesterday in the Observer.

Like Haynes, Nyatanga and Clarkson have a sellable value and would free up wages for Millen to buy his own players. Clarkson has one year left on his contract.

[Riaz]

Why are we all using different fonts??

[bringbacktherobin]

Why are we all using different fonts??

Adds something to the day

[Jon atyeo is my dad]

Liam maybe injured, but he's here in spirit !

Get it , because of the fonts! Coz riaz said about the fonts ! FONTS !

[Nibor]

Season long loans of Premier League youngsters is a great economical way to add some quality to the squad and given that the competition does it, we have to as well. We have to get them right though, more Caulkers and less Roses.

I think we'll see the following squad movements:

Contract not renewed:

Carey

Sproule

Turn down new contract:

Henderson

Asked to find a new club as they're not likely to be first team:

Johnson

Clarkson

McAllister

Ball

Jackson

Paid to quietly do one:

Hunt

Retained in First Team Squad:

GK James

GK Gerken

RCB Ribeiro

LCB Fontaine

CB Stewart

LCB Nyatanga

RW Adomah

RLW JCR

CM Cisse

CM Elliott

CM Skuse

LW Woolford

ST Maynard

CF Stead

ST Pitman

Retained in Development Squad:

Wilson

Edwards

Keohane

Hoban

Three or so u-18s

(Expect this lot to be on loan a fair bit I reckon)

Signed?

RCB Jordan Spence

RLB Billy Jones

Ignoring the development squad, that'd give us a balance of

2 GK, 2(1)RB, 2(2)CB, 1(2)LB, 2RW, 3CM, 1(1)LW, 2ST, 1CF for 17 first team professionals.

(numbers in brackets = players can cover this role but aren't specialist)

We're aiming I believe for something like 22 + 6 development. So, say, three permanent signings and a couple of season long loans, with the aim of arriving at something like:

2GK, 2(2)RB, 4(2)CB, 2(2)LB, 2(1)RW, 4CM, 2(1)LW, 2ST, 2CF.

That sort of squad balance would allow us two injuries in any position bar keeper before having to look to loans or the development squad.

It may be that we can't move on Johnson, McAllister or Clarkson in which case they'll reduce the number of permanent signings I think.

If we have to sell Maynard we might see a couple of extra signings. We might consider a good offer for a middle of the road player like Skuse or JCR as well which would see us look for a replacement.

The value for money will come from keeping a smaller but more balanced permanent first team squad and being very careful about permanent signings - which IMO Millen has done well one so far.

I'm quite keen to see who he brings in over the summer.

[Jordan Tansley]

Season long loans of Premier League youngsters is a great economical way to add some quality to the squad and given that the competition does it, we have to as well. We have to get them right though, more Caulkers and less Roses.

I think we'll see the following squad movements:

Contract not renewed:

Carey

Sproule

Turn down new contract:

Henderson

Asked to find a new club as they're not likely to be first team:

Johnson

Clarkson

McAllister

Ball

Jackson

Paid to quietly do one:

Hunt

Retained in First Team Squad:

GK James

GK Gerken

RCB Ribeiro

LCB Fontaine

CB Stewart

LCB Nyatanga

RW Adomah

RLW JCR

CM Cisse

CM Elliott

CM Skuse

LW Woolford

ST Maynard

CF Stead

ST Pitman

Retained in Development Squad:

Wilson

Edwards

Keohane

Hoban

Three or so u-18s

(Expect this lot to be on loan a fair bit I reckon)

Signed?

RCB Jordan Spence

RLB Billy Jones

Ignoring the development squad, that'd give us a balance of

2 GK, 2(1)RB, 2(2)CB, 1(2)LB, 2RW, 3CM, 1(1)LW, 2ST, 1CF for 17 first team professionals.

(numbers in brackets = players can cover this role but aren't specialist)

We're aiming I believe for something like 22 + 6 development. So, say, three permanent signings and a couple of season long loans, with the aim of arriving at something like:

2GK, 2(2)RB, 4(2)CB, 2(2)LB, 2(1)RW, 4CM, 2(1)LW, 2ST, 2CF.

That sort of squad balance would allow us two injuries in any position bar keeper before having to look to loans or the development squad.

It may be that we can't move on Johnson, McAllister or Clarkson in which case they'll reduce the number of permanent signings I think.

If we have to sell Maynard we might see a couple of extra signings. We might consider a good offer for a middle of the road player like Skuse or JCR as well which would see us look for a replacement.

The value for money will come from keeping a smaller but more balanced permanent first team squad and being very careful about permanent signings - which IMO Millen has done well one so far.

I'm quite keen to see who he brings in over the summer.

Exactly how I see it and have read the situation. I would however hazard a guess that Carey will get one more season and Henderson is still a massive "maybe"

I'm as optimistic for this "off-season" as I have been for a while, Randomly excited for next season!

[Robbored]

Contract not renewed:

Carey

Sproule

Asked to find a new club as they're not likely to be first team:

Johnson

Clarkson

McAllister

Ball

Jackson

Retained in First Team Squad:

GK James

GK Gerken

RCB Ribeiro

LCB Fontaine

CB Stewart

LCB Nyatanga

RW Adomah

RLW JCR

CM Cisse

CM Elliott

CM Skuse

LW Woolford

ST Maynard

CF Stead

ST Pitman

Retained in Development Squad:

Wilson

Edwards

Keohane

Hoban

Three or so u-18s

(Expect this lot to be on loan a fair bit I reckon)

Signed?

RCB Jordan Spence

RLB Billy Jones

I'm quite keen to see who he brings in over the summer.

Carey will be offered another year but he may want two so could turn it down.

Johnson, Clarkson and McAllister will all be first team squad players next season. Maybe not starters but definately in the squad.

Agree about the retained players.

Development squad?

Wilson and Edwards are shoe-ins but as we've heard nothing about the Irish lads I'm not convinved they'll be kept on.

Billy Jones will be on Millens shopping list and will hopefully join City but will Spence want leave a PL club perminately? Too early to say imo. Expect additions to the midfield as well.

[Nibor]

Carey will be offered another year but he may want two so could turn it down.

One of the higher earners who has played less than half the games? Seems unlikely. If he was offered a year he'd be all over it but I don't think that will be what Millen sees as the future.

Johnson, Clarkson and McAllister will all be first team squad players next season. Maybe not starters but definately in the squad.

Be interested to know why you think that? They're all in the last year of their contract and none of them will help us to the top 10. They're all high earners and moving them on frees up cash for players who could take us forward. Why keep known mediocrity as squad filler when you're trying to tighten up a squad? You need to make room to bring players in at the top.

Billy Jones will be on Millens shopping list and will hopefully join City but will Spence want leave a PL club perminately? Too early to say imo. Expect additions to the midfield as well.

I'm speculating that Spence won't get a new deal at WHU which is why he's here and that the Jones deal is pretty much agreed. It's all definitely speculation though.

Midfield additions? We'd have 3 wingers and 4 CMs if you really think Johnson won't be moving. Value for money won't see us sign a fifth CM or a fourth winger IMO. Think about it. Matchday squad of 18, that means with 22 first team players we can have four concurrent injuries before we even have to put a youngster on the bench.

[GrahamC]

One of the higher earners who has played less than half the games? Seems unlikely. If he was offered a year he'd be all over it but I don't think that will be what Millen sees as the future.

Be interested to know why you think that? They're all in the last year of their contract and none of them will help us to the top 10. They're all high earners and moving them on frees up cash for players who could take us forward. Why keep known mediocrity as squad filler when you're trying to tighten up a squad? You need to make room to bring players in at the top.

I'm speculating that Spence won't get a new deal at WHU which is why he's here and that the Jones deal is pretty much agreed. It's all definitely speculation though.

Midfield additions? We'd have 3 wingers and 4 CMs if you really think Johnson won't be moving. Value for money won't see us sign a fifth CM or a fourth winger IMO. Think about it. Matchday squad of 18, that means with 22 first team players we can have four concurrent injuries before we even have to put a youngster on the bench.

Agree with all you post here, Nibor.

I'd just add that Jackson and Ball are out of contract this summer so can be released if KM wishes...

[Nogbad the Bad]

Carey will be offered another year but he may want two so could turn it down.

We all appreciate Loius Carey's long service to the club - he's Bristol City through and through and has been an outstanding servant.

But all good things must come to an end and I'd be disappointed if he's offered a new contract.

We're talking about a visibly slowing down 34 year old who's ever more injury prone and a high earner who is very unlikely to be a first choice next season.

City have stated their intentions to dramatically prune the squad and Carey must be an extremely prime candidate.

No room, or money for that matter, for sentiment like seemingly in the case of Scott Murray who stayed a season too long and offered no value for money on the pitch during that extra year.

It would show strong management from KM to let Carey go and at the same time make a clean break from the past and allow a fresh dynamic to evolve amongst the newer players in the dressing room.

It's all been very quiet on this one so far and it's going to be very interesting to see which way it goes.

[Alex_BCFC]

Carey will probably get one more year surely? Not the best but a soild replacement for another season I spect.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Carey will probably get one more year surely? Not the best but a soild replacement for another season I spect.

The Louis Carey contract situation will be a good indicator of how serious the club are about reducing the squad.

If they really mean to back up all the fine words with actions then ruthless decisions will be made, both with youngsters and out of contract senior players.

If the squad is to be culled as stated then there's no logical reason why Carey should be immune.

[simonwheeler]

i agree about Louis Carey. Great servant but sentimentality does not win leagues so as previously stated it will be interesting to see "if" the club have learnt from the mistake sadly made with another great servant Scott Murray - one season to long? I have a hunch that we will let the Irish lads go? Evidently they have not been pulling up any trees and even failed to make a major impact at a struggling Clevedon???? Ball and Jackson may well be farmed out either on long loans or permanent. Hunt - That surely will be settled by our legal department, but, very sadly I think it will cost a fair bit as surely he knows that there is not going to be a long line of clubs beating a track to Ashton to sign his services so this will be his last big pay day and COULD just be his pension???

With Gerks signing a new contract, sadly I think we will see Hendo depart to Yeovil (If they can afford him?) full time as evidently he likes playing there and they certainly like him? Possibly take little Lee with him, if Yeovil break the bank???

The one name mentioned that I think may still be parking his car regularly in the players car park next season is Clarkson? It seems that Millie sees something in him that the vast majority of supporters dont and just look at the number of first team starts that Clarkie has had since KM took over full time? Me thinks he has a favourite in DC.

[SC_Red]

The Louis Carey contract situation will be a good indicator of how serious the club are about reducing the squad.

If they really mean to back up all the fine words with actions then ruthless decisions will be made, both with youngsters and out of contract senior players.

If the squad is to be culled as stated then there's no logical reason why Carey should be immune.

depends how a new contract was worded.

if its weighted towards pay as you play with a low basic wage then it maybe something worth considering. His injury record which is getting worse as he gets older has to be a concern but he could still offer value if his contract is set up a certain way

[Robbored]

One of the higher earners who has played less than half the games? Seems unlikely. If he was offered a year he'd be all over it but I don't think that will be what Millen sees as the future.

Carey's been unlucky with injuries, particularly his most recent one. He might be getting on but he's still a decent defender with leadership qualities.

Be interested to know why you think that? They're all in the last year of their contract and none of them will help us to the top 10. They're all high earners and moving them on frees up cash for players who could take us forward. Why keep known mediocrity as squad filler when you're trying to tighten up a squad? You need to make room to bring players in at the top.

All of them are usefull squad players, all experienced in the Championship and I doubt Millen would want to lose them simply on those grounds. If he's planning on thinning the squad then the arrival of Billy Jones might mean the end of McAllister but I can see Johnson and Clarkson being in Millens plans, particularly Clarkson who I think Millen rates.

I'm speculating that Spence won't get a new deal at WHU which is why he's here and that the Jones deal is pretty much agreed. It's all definitely speculation though.

Spence would be a good signing.

Midfield additions? We'd have 3 wingers and 4 CMs if you really think Johnson won't be moving. Value for money won't see us sign a fifth CM or a fourth winger IMO. Think about it. Matchday squad of 18, that means with 22 first team players we can have four concurrent injuries before we even have to put a youngster on the bench.

Its been obvious to us all that Hartley has not been replaced and City's midfield lacks creativity. I'm sure Millen will be looking to strengthen in that area. Might only be one player but its an area thats very thin.

[BCFC_Dan]

Carey's one to be careful with. I think he still has a lot of influence over other members of the squad and it always seems to me that the team generally performs a lot better when he's happy than when he's not.

I'm not saying that he'd actively stir up trouble, but I do think it could have a negative effect on the rest of the squad if he's not treated in a manner befitting a loyal long-term club servant (Coventry excursion aside.) It could be worth the cost in wages to help morale.

[Nibor]

Carey might have been unlucky (or perhaps just stupid?) with his BBQ injury but you'd be hard pushed to get 30 games out of him next season. When tightening belts I think that will be insufficient. Pay as you play or something weighted that way might make it feasible but I still doubt it.

I agree on the Hartley replacement which is why I think LJ will be moved on, in order to part fund that and I think Millen's been playing Clarkson to put him in the shop window. When you're under pressure to reduce squad numbers I don't think it makes any sense at all to keep average or below average players with which we're unlikely to progress. Millen's smart enough to see it I reckon.

Anyway, it will certainly be an interesting summer. I'm clinging on to the hope we'll get a new contract with Maynard if we offer him a big enough payrise and agree to let a Prem club approach him if they pay over say £8m. Might be cloud cuckoo land though.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Carey's one to be careful with. I think he still has a lot of influence over other members of the squad and it always seems to me that the team generally performs a lot better when he's happy than when he's not.

If the attitude of one player can have such a dramatic effect on the performances of the team as you say then that sounds like he has far too much influence. It would certainly not be a healthy situation for the club if that were the case. Keith Millen shouldn't 'have to be careful' with anyone when it comes to contract renewals - this is essentially a business we're talking about and KM has to justify expenditure. He should also be the ultimate voice of authority over the players and, if there is any basis at all for your fears expressed above, a difficult decision like this would seem the ideal opportunity to make that clear. He knows the players he intends to sign, and who is emerging from the ranks, and either he thinks Carey will play a big enough part in the first team next season to justify the expenditure, or he doesn't, and that alone should normally be the basis for making decisions on veteran players.

I'm not saying that he'd actively stir up trouble, but I do think it could have a negative effect on the rest of the squad if he's not treated in a manner befitting a loyal long-term club servant (Coventry excursion aside.) It could be worth the cost in wages to help morale.

Have to disagree, Dan. SL has stated that club policy is that squad numbers will be markedly reduced. Therefore there is no room for sentiment of any sort when it comes to deciding on new contracts, particularly perhaps when considering an injury prone, visibly slowing, 34 year old, however long serving. There is also no available finance, or space in the squad, to hand out new contracts which are unlikely to prove value for money. If, as you suggest, KM may be wary of the reaction if he doesn't renew Carey's contract, even if his likely future participation didn't merit one, then he wouldn't be displaying the necessary character to be a successful football manager. Being a strong, and, when necessary, ruthless decision maker, even when that decision may be unpopular in some quarters, is surely intrinsic to this.

It's time for the likes of Carey, Sproule and Johnson to move on, thus refreshing the dressing room and allowing KM to make space for a new pecking order and spirit to evolve amongst his squad.

[BCFC_Dan]

You are right in all of that, of course, but it is important to remember that these are real people who are being dealt with here.

Getting rid of players who cannot be justified on the wage bill is part and parcel of football and I'm sure the players all accept that. However it is important to make sure it is done in the right way.

If (and I must stress this is all entirely hypothetical) Carey were released at the end of the season and felt hard done by in the situation, that ill feeling is likely to communicate itself to remaining members of the first team squad who he will still be in contact with. If other players think someone has been harsly treated by the club then it will have an effect.

I'm not saying any player should be in a position to hold the club to ransom, and I don't think a player should be kept on purely to keep other people happy. All I'm saying is that it has to be a consideration and that I suspect Carey may be a player with considerable influence over the others.

[Robbored]

I'm not saying any player should be in a position to hold the club to ransom, and I don't think a player should be kept on purely to keep other people happy. All I'm saying is that it has to be a consideration and that I suspect Carey may be a player with considerable influence over the others.

Carey is club captain as so is bound to have 'influence' over other players.

Millen has played alongside Carey and has known him for years and if he thought Carey was a disruptive/negative influence he would remove him as club captain.

I reckon Carey has at least one more season in him, possibly two and I would be very surprised if he's not offered another contract. He might be looking at a coaching role after he's hung his boots up and that could possibly be part of a new deal.

[Slave to the rhythm]

Carey is club captain as so is bound to have 'influence' over other players.

Millen has played alongside Carey and has known him for years and if he thought Carey was a disruptive/negative influence he would remove him as club captain.

I reckon Carey has at least one more season in him, possibly two and I would be very surprised if he's not offered another contract. He might be looking at a coaching role after he's hung his boots up and that could possibly be part of a new deal.

Carey will be here next season, even if he plays for free, as he wants that all time appearance record.

Frankly, I think he's worth another season at least.

[Carey 6]

I reckon one more year for Carey, i didn't think he was that bad at right back this season when we needed cover?

To break the club appearance record will be an amazing feat for him, anybody know how many he's on now?

[The Bard]

Carey will be here next season, even if he plays for free, as he wants that all time appearance record.

Frankly, I think he's worth another season at least.

I think he is an ideal player to have around probably more when we are struggling then when everything is going well. Some of our players are up and down and old heads provide a counterweight to this - being positive during bad times and ensuring they don't get too far ahead of themselves when things are going well. Successful sides keep a level head and I'm sure he will play a part both on the pitch and off it.

[Mad Cyril]

We're talking about a visibly slowing down 34 year old who's ever more injury prone

bit harsh to dismiss Carey as injury prone - we are talking breaks, dislocations and skull fractures here, typical of a player who regularly puts his body on the line every time. To me, injury prone is a discription more suitable for the type of player who tweaks a hamstring every time they get within 50 yards of a ball. Of course we have those too, but surely not our Louis?????

[chinapig]

bit harsh to dismiss Carey as injury prone - we are talking breaks, dislocations and skull fractures here, typical of a player who regularly puts his body on the line every time. To me, injury prone is a discription more suitable for the type of player who tweaks a hamstring every time they get within 50 yards of a ball. Of course we have those too, but surely not our Louis?????

How the injuries came about is irrelevant. We simply cannot afford to be paying top wages to a player who is past his best has missed large chunks of the last two seasons. In any event he does have a long standing injury issue that is not going to get better. If he gets a new contract it will be for sentimental reasons (let's all forget the number of abject defeats he has played in and shown no leadership at all shall we?) and suggests we have learned nothing. Why not give McAllister and Sproule new contracts too on the grounds that they are nice chaps and did well 3 or 4 years ago? For me the key test for Keith is whether he has the guts to make just such tough decisions or prefers to bow to player power to be popular.

[SC_Red]

How the injuries came about is irrelevant. We simply cannot afford to be paying top wages to a player who is past his best has missed large chunks of the last two seasons. In any event he does have a long standing injury issue that is not going to get better. If he gets a new contract it will be for sentimental reasons (let's all forget the number of abject defeats he has played in and shown no leadership at all shall we?) and suggests we have learned nothing. Why not give McAllister and Sproule new contracts too on the grounds that they are nice chaps and did well 3 or 4 years ago? For me the key test for Keith is whether he has the guts to make just such tough decisions or prefers to bow to player power to be popular.

the last 2 seasons? he played in 37 of 46 league games last season. Only 4 players played more.

I dont think the nature of the injuries is completely irrelavent. Impact injuries can happen to anyone. The latest one he was elbowed in the head. Thats a bit different from dodgy knees or a hamstring that keeps snapping.

[Red-Robbo]

Older players bring experience, leadership, and cohesion to a team - even when they're past their physical peak.

If you want to see what happens when you've got a team of kids in charge, go in any Weatherspoons!

I agree that Louis has probably one more season in him and - as he's unlikely to be that expensive - I'd prefer we retained him for that period.

[CliftonCliff]

For me the key test for Keith is whether he has the guts to make just such tough decisions or prefers to bow to player power to be popular.

I agree with you essentially, but would just add that in fairness I haven't seen much evidence to suggest that Millen panders unduly to popularity. I don't know how tough-minded he is, but his personality and manner are completely different to Johnson's (I'm glad to say) and if he does assert his authority then he does it without throwing his weight around and making public references to dishing out bollockings every five minutes - an approach which, in GJ's case, I believe led eventually to the loss of the players' respect and ultimately cost the manager his job.

It has seemed to me, on the whole, that when he has felt the need to make changes Millen's done so, within the limitations imposed by injuries and the inherent weaknesses in the squad. He wasn't afraid to leave Pitman out for a spell, for example, even after he'd become something of a fans' favourite following a good scoring run, and he also withdrew the deservedly popular Albert, albeit briefly, when he felt the player was in need of a rest.

The bottom line is we still haven't seen enough of KM as manager to know for sure and even his critics - well, some of them, anyway - are willing to acknowledge that, because of the particular circumstances surrounding his appointment, it will really only be next season, when he has had more control over the composition of his squad, that we'll be able to judge him. I personally think he'll have learned a lot from having got through a difficult period and will be a better manager for it than if he'd had a relatively smooth ride. Time will tell, but my perspective on it is that he has so far done a very capable job in getting us to the safety of the 50 point mark in ample time and with eight or nine games to spare. Most people would have taken that if offered it last September.