Lack of Action Man Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Conspiracy? Bad Luck? Whatever it is we have had an outstanding number of injuries this season and I really don't understand how. Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InCider Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Conspiracy? Bad Luck? Whatever it is we have had an outstanding number of injuries this season and I really don't understand how. Discuss. I don't think you can read too much into it (e.g. training methods must be wrong, etc ...). Newcastle went through the same, although they also buy injured players, like Ben Arfa! Teams like Man U and Arsenal seem to pick up a lot also and I'm sure they have the best training facilities, physios, etc ... around. Just Sod's law I guess and we've been particularly unlucky by anyone's standards this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty-H Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Personally I think there are questions to be asked of fitness or training methods or both. A review should certainly be in order even if the conclusion is nothing is wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ateyomike Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 have wondered a few times this season not having a reserve team in any league not even western hasn't helped us perhaps we need to get in a league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty-H Posted April 9, 2011 Report Share Posted April 9, 2011 Spurs don't really have a reserve side either. They loan their youngsters out to lower league clubs for experience. Something we should do more of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 And when they come to Bristol City they get injured! Full circle back to the original post in 6! We have ahd a phenomenal number this season and I think I agree we should review it, even if to rule out that we're doing something wrong. But I guess it goes round - the season we got to the play offs we had virtually no injuries all season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty-H Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 And I think that's because the squad we had under GJ was the fittest squad we have ever had. Training methods you could say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 It's the way we play imho. We constantly sit back and allow teams to come at us. We are always chasing the game and defending. We then try for the quick counter attack. These types of tactics will make the percentage of injuries higher, as you are constantly on the back foot, chasing and exherting extra effort. We don't keep the ball, and make it work for us. Our defenders, are overstretched, overworked and not supported. I always thought KM was a man for statistics and players workrates. Anybody can look back over our match reports, and see for themselves, that we are constanly low in percentage match possession. Always defending, chasing and inviting the opposition at us. It's not rocket science to see why our high proportion of injuries occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Down to the 'Spinless Ones' scientific pre-season outlook IMO, there is nothing better than a good hard slog in pre-season. Pre-season is VITAL. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Down to the 'Spinless Ones' scientific pre-season outlook IMO, there is nothing better than a good hard slog in pre-season. Pre-season is VITAL. BCAGFC Indeed it is, Managers and players alike always make the point of how important they feel Pre-season is. I just wish there was a way to sue that little troll... or at least lay the smackdown on his sorry ass! Interested to see how Millens first Pre-season goes, He's not done one before so it'll be interesting to see how he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 It's got nothing to do with SC...Did he have the same problems at all his other Clubs? And we are near the end of the season, nothing to do with pre season. I love the way people will still find fault with what SC did or didn't do, and still blame it on our performances now. Plain crazy, when you consider how many managers come and go throughout a season. KM and Wigely have had the majority of this season to get things right. Fortunately he found a method to scrape us some points together. But we are far from the finished article. He's learning on the job, with a bit of help from Wiggers and his connections. No need to blame SC anymore...it's like blaming LJ for everything that goes wrong. KM will get it right some days...other times he won't. Yesterday was a prime example of the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 It's got nothing to do with SC...Did he have the same problems at all his other Clubs? And we are near the end of the season, nothing to do with pre season. I love the way people will still find fault with what SC did or didn't do, and still blame it on our performances now. Plain crazy, when you consider how many managers come and go throughout a season. KM and Wigely have had the majority of this season to get things right. Fortunately he found a method to scrape us some points together. But we are far from the finished article. He's learning on the job, with a bit of help from Wiggers and his connections. No need to blame SC anymore...it's like blaming LJ for everything that goes wrong. KM will get it right some days...other times he won't. Yesterday was a prime example of the latter. So why didn't we get so many injuries when we had the 'tough' pre-seasons under GJ?. We played the same counter attacking football under him, so that argument doesn't wash either I'm afraid. IMO, a lot of the injuries we have picked up are down to a poor pre-season but then that wouldn't fit in with your blinkered view of KM would it?. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdave60 Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 It's got nothing to do with SC...Did he have the same problems at all his other Clubs? And we are near the end of the season, nothing to do with pre season. I love the way people will still find fault with what SC did or didn't do, and still blame it on our performances now. Plain crazy, when you consider how many managers come and go throughout a season. KM and Wigely have had the majority of this season to get things right. Fortunately he found a method to scrape us some points together. But we are far from the finished article. He's learning on the job, with a bit of help from Wiggers and his connections. No need to blame SC anymore...it's like blaming LJ for everything that goes wrong. KM will get it right some days...other times he won't. Yesterday was a prime example of the latter. [/ quote] I blame LJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 So why didn't we get so many injuries when we had the 'tough' pre-seasons under GJ?. We played the same counter attacking football under him, so that argument doesn't wash either I'm afraid. IMO, a lot of the injuries we have picked up are down to a poor pre-season but then that wouldn't fit in with your blinkered view of KM would it?. BCAGFC Seriously mate...How can pre season training have anything to do with injuries being picked up now and in the last few months? The players have had months to get match fit. I'm not blinkered when it comes to KM. I believe he will probably become a good manager in the future. My problem, is that BCFC are willing to let him learn his trade whilst managing us. I personally would prefer a more experienced manager at this level. But tbh, after what i've read coming out of the Club regarding next season, he will probably do ok, as we will be reliant on loans and youth. Mid table again...if we're lucky. I believe people need to start seeing what BCFC as a club are saying about next season. It's going to be a very hard season again imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Seriously mate...How can pre season training have anything to do with injuries being picked up now and in the last few months? The players have had months to get match fit. I'm not blinkered when it comes to KM. I believe he will probably become a good manager in the future. My problem, is that BCFC are willing to let him learn his trade whilst managing us. I personally would prefer a more experienced manager at this level. But tbh, after what i've read coming out of the Club regarding next season, he will probably do ok, as we will be reliant on loans and youth. Mid table again...if we're lucky. I believe people need to start seeing what BCFC as a club are saying about next season. It's going to be a very hard season again imho. Danny Murphy (Fulham) said on Goals On Sunday today that a bad pre-season can have a devastating effect on a whole season, can't remember who he was on about though. If you don't get the fitness side of things right in pre-season, it will come back to haunt you later in the season and that comes from the horses mouth. It's not about match fitness, more about match toughness and our pre-season was powder puff stuff. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Spudski, How many games would you say could come under effect of a pre-season if not a whole season? 10-11? Look at the table not including the first 11.... Give Millen some effing credit, it's all so bloody dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Spudski, How many games would you say could come under effect of a pre-season if not a whole season? 10-11? Look at the table not including the first 11.... Give Millen some effing credit, it's all so bloody dull. What the hell are you on about? This is about injuries not results. So get your facts right before accusing people of being dull...if the face fits. Like i've said before...try ignoring my posts, because I do yours. I have no interest in what you say, and i suggest you do likewise with mine, because we will never agree. No offence, but i find your drivel mind numbing. And you obviously think the same of me, So best avoid.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 10, 2011 Report Share Posted April 10, 2011 Aww! Thanks honey, personally think you post some really good stuff until your manic depressive moany old bugger alter ego comes out of the closet! I was interested in how long you thought the effects of pre-season are evident on the team, seeing as you don't believe it has a season long effect. It's called progression of a discussion... I actually wasn't calling you dull, the general bloody mood on this forum this weekend has been dull! Moaners out in force pulling the rest of us down to their depths of despair! So I ask the question again and if you choose to ignore it then fair play, hobble off into the cyber abyss. How long do you think the effects of a good pre season can last on a team, If at all, both on perfermormances and fitness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 at this stage of the season you can't blame the pre-season on the number of injuries we're picking up, during the first 10 games you can but not now, a number of injures and strains are being picked up in training and you have to point at our training methords for this, Theres a fitness coach at I think Northampton who went to madrid not so long ago and had a look at their training to see what he can incorparate into his, the cobblers haven't had a strain injury this season, We need to look at the medical staff and our fitness training in the close season, We can't blame anyone as we can't really change it as the season goes on but once this nightmare season is out of the way I sggest the club have a look at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Aww! Thanks honey, personally think you post some really good stuff until your manic depressive moany old bugger alter ego comes out of the closet! I was interested in how long you thought the effects of pre-season are evident on the team, seeing as you don't believe it has a season long effect. It's called progression of a discussion... I actually wasn't calling you dull, the general bloody mood on this forum this weekend has been dull! Moaners out in force pulling the rest of us down to their depths of despair! So I ask the question again and if you choose to ignore it then fair play, hobble off into the cyber abyss. How long do you think the effects of a good pre season can last on a team, If at all, both on perfermormances and fitness? If you look at your statement directed at me, how else would you expect me to reply? Treat and respond to people as individuals rather than lumping us all into box's that suit your views. Then, we may be able to have conversations in an adult manner. The little childish remarks do you no favours. For someone who has been on this planet less years than my oldest cat, you come across in your posts, as someone who has little respect for anyone elses opinion if they don't agree with yours, and with very little humility. As far as your question. Pre season you work on fitness and certain formations and tactics. Fitness is obviously beneficial and is maintained throughout the season. Although we are a team sport, each player imho should be treated indivvidually and have their own fitness regime, based on their body. Some need to train more than others. It's finding a balance that will suit that player, so that they can give a prime performance for 90 mins on match day. As for performances...you could win everygame in pre season, then get hammered in your league opener. Or lose everygame in pre season, then win your league opener. As for our opening 11 games... I agree, our pre season obviously wasn't right, but it has nothing to do with injuries now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 If you look at your statement directed at me, how else would you expect me to reply? Treat and respond to people as individuals rather than lumping us all into box's that suit your views. Then, we may be able to have conversations in an adult manner. The little childish remarks do you no favours. For someone who has been on this planet less years than my oldest cat, you come across in your posts, as someone who has little respect for anyone elses opinion if they don't agree with yours, and with very little humility. As far as your question. Pre season you work on fitness and certain formations and tactics. Fitness is obviously beneficial and is maintained throughout the season. Although we are a team sport, each player imho should be treated indivvidually and have their own fitness regime, based on their body. Some need to train more than others. It's finding a balance that will suit that player, so that they can give a prime performance for 90 mins on match day. As for performances...you could win everygame in pre season, then get hammered in your league opener. Or lose everygame in pre season, then win your league opener. As for our opening 11 games... I agree, our pre season obviously wasn't right, but it has nothing to do with injuries now. Apologies on that front then A lot of ex players and managers put a lot of weight behind the importance of pre-season on both fitness and performances, and I tend to agree, If you fall behind in pre-season you are spending the rest of the year playing catch-up! Which cannot be good for the joints and muscles at all. I disagree on your idea that our style is at fault, too. There are dozens of teams who play counter attacking high tempo football in this country, and none have had the awful luck that we've had in terms of injuries! In my opinion, Luck has been a major factor too. But the aftermath of a shoddy pre-season has meant our players have been playing catch-up all season, in order to catch up you have to work that little bit harder one would suggest... Which over the course of a season might be considered a factor in our injury crisis. One thing is for sure, if we are to play the way we do we are going to need a proper pre-season next year and perhaps a bigger link to sports sciences? I don't like Sam Allardyce much, but I always respected his desire to give his players every bit of help available. Science is progressing daily so we should be using it all to our advantage. One question I will ask though is, was there this many injuries back in the "old days"? obviously the tempo and intensity of football has improved greatly, but it seems that no team could win a title using 13 players like Liverpool did during the eighties... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 That's cool...Lets put it behind us. Imho, we seem to have a problem with injuries at the Gate. Whether they are not training correctly or warming down properly, or stretching properly...who knows? What i do know, is that most British Clubs train a lot less hours than our counterparts on the Continent. We also play a lot more games than other teams on the Continent. Remember also, the majority of Countries abroad have a Winter break. We don't. That break doesn't hinder their performances or fitness levels, so to say we would be playing catch up all season is irrelevent imho. Once players reach peak fitness, it is just a case of doing enough fitness training to keep in top condition, getting enough sleep and rest and being fully hydrated. You cannot say none of our players have not reached match fitness since pre season. Even Maynard is back to full match fit...and he has had the most time off of anybody. Yes...there probably is some bad luck involved. But we have had too many players injured for my liking, to be just down to luck and pre season. As for the way you play, it is bound to have an effect on you. If you are constantly defending and chasing, then you are exherting more energy and stretching more. It's common sense. As for teams of a bygone age...players played through injuries, and had injections to knumb the pain. That's why you see so many old crocks like myself, who now have arthritis and dry joints. They were pumped with cortisone...including myself. Hense the dodgy knee. The game of today, can't really be compared with the game of the 70's and 80's. It's totally different. I hope that answers your question adequetly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 That's cool...Lets put it behind us. Imho, we seem to have a problem with injuries at the Gate. Whether they are not training correctly or warming down properly, or stretching properly...who knows? What i do know, is that most British Clubs train a lot less hours than our counterparts on the Continent. We also play a lot more games than other teams on the Continent. Remember also, the majority of Countries abroad have a Winter break. We don't. That break doesn't hinder their performances or fitness levels, so to say we would be playing catch up all season is irrelevent imho. Once players reach peak fitness, it is just a case of doing enough fitness training to keep in top condition, getting enough sleep and rest and being fully hydrated. You cannot say none of our players have not reached match fitness since pre season. Even Maynard is back to full match fit...and he has had the most time off of anybody. Yes...there probably is some bad luck involved. But we have had too many players injured for my liking, to be just down to luck and pre season. As for the way you play, it is bound to have an effect on you. If you are constantly defending and chasing, then you are exherting more energy and stretching more. It's common sense. As for teams of a bygone age...players played through injuries, and had injections to knumb the pain. That's why you see so many old crocks like myself, who now have arthritis and dry joints. They were pumped with cortisone...including myself. Hense the dodgy knee. The game of today, can't really be compared with the game of the 70's and 80's. It's totally different. I hope that answers your question adequetly. We haven't looked as fit as we use to in recent seasons, we use to go and run until the 90th minute but this hasn't been the case this season (and towards the end of last season) so fitness isn't as good, this could be a number of things but I do think it needs to be looked at by the management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 We haven't looked as fit as we use to in recent seasons, we use to go and run until the 90th minute but this hasn't been the case this season (and towards the end of last season) so fitness isn't as good, this could be a number of things but I do think it needs to be looked at by the management I do agree...but maybe this is down to the style of game we play as well. How much time does the ball actually stay with our midfield? Very little. It often bypasses midfield. When we had Hartly it made a big difference on how we approached an offensive. We spend more time chasing and defending a ball over the course of the game, than other sides do. It will have an effect on your energy levels by the 90th minute. I firmly believe, we need to start keeping the ball and using our midfield in a more productive manner. The one player who looks constantly lethargic to me is Pitman. He's blowing out his arse by 45 mins. Skuse has also looked unfit all season. In fact he looks ill to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 I do agree...but maybe this is down to the style of game we play as well. How much time does the ball actually stay with our midfield? Very little. It often bypasses midfield. When we had Hartly it made a big difference on how we approached an offensive. We spend more time chasing and defending a ball over the course of the game, than other sides do. It will have an effect on your energy levels by the 90th minute. I firmly believe, we need to start keeping the ball and using our midfield in a more productive manner. The one player who looks constantly lethargic to me is Pitman. He's blowing out his arse by 45 mins. Skuse has also looked unfit all season. In fact he looks ill to me. Didn't really think of our play when I posted but that does make sense but it also asks the question why do we set up on the counter if we haven't the fitness level for it (we all know the anwser) As with pitman I just think thats the way he plays, you get those strikes who look lazy and disinterested then for 5 minutes are unplayable Ricardo Fuller and Anelka spring to mind, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 Didn't really think of our play when I posted but that does make sense but it also asks the question why do we set up on the counter if we haven't the fitness level for it (we all know the anwser) As with pitman I just think thats the way he plays, you get those strikes who look lazy and disinterested then for 5 minutes are unplayable Ricardo Fuller and Anelka spring to mind, I don't. what does this mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 I don't. what does this mean? we've had to play counter attack football as we haven't been good enough to domanate a match, Midfield hasn't been strong enough and defense has been pritty awful, So we've gone with two strong tackling midfielders to help soak up pressure and used our quick players (Adomah Maynard) to hit them on the counter with pace, Does work but is costly when it doesn't, We're 4 defenders and 2 midfielders short Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 we've had to play counter attack football as we haven't been good enough to domanate a match, Midfield hasn't been strong enough and defense has been pritty awful, So we've gone with two strong tackling midfielders to help soak up pressure and used our quick players (Adomah Maynard) to hit them on the counter with pace, Does work but is costly when it doesn't, We're 4 defenders and 2 midfielders short Couldn't have said it better myself. KM has actually said this as well. He's found our strengths, and we play to them, and we have to use them, as we really don't have any alternative way of playing. Our Midfield playing staff aren't good enough at this level, to be controlling and effect the pace of the game. Effectively, that's how he got us out of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economou Posted April 11, 2011 Report Share Posted April 11, 2011 The main 'offenders' for injuries have been Carey & Macca, both not in the first flush of youth, I wonder if that has something to do with it. I believe they've both been out on three occasions this season, one of Louis' being related to an off field activity. Apart from that Caulks had two short spells out, trains with Spurs majority of the time, Fonts two spells, one of six games and his recent injury, while Stead had his long term ankle problem that required fixing. Ribs seems to have been slightly injury prone over the last three years. Skuse was strange one, out with a toe injury that he supposedly kept under wraps, perhaps the physio should've picked up on that. Cisse and Stewart have both had very short term injuries. In short don't think you can put our injuries down to lack of pre-season or poor training methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigfatdave Posted April 12, 2011 Report Share Posted April 12, 2011 I dont think our medical team is running up in the 21st century. I dont think we get any more injuries than many clubs, but i do think we dont deal with them properly. I have heard rumours that some players have sought private medical treatment outside of the club, if this is the case that can only say one thing. Football is no different in fact now to the 70,s or 80,s The game is quicker to some extent but believe me the Players are no fitter and infact some teams are lacking the fitness of their counterparts of the 70,s and 80,s. I recall playing against Wimbledon in 78- 79 season in the old DIV 4 and they put 11 golas past us in two matches...they were recognised as one of the fittest clubs in the country at that time and they ran and ran and ran for 90 minutes, Im sure half of them never even broke into a sweat. I dont think it helps much when Players start or are substituted into a game at short notice without given proper chance to warm up or going through a stringent warm up procedure. In Ribs case for example he was pitched straight in as Sub when he picked up his last hamstring as cold as an eskimos fart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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