gater2 Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Haven't posted on the forum for a while, but have been actively reading threads. Thought this article might be of interest to some, especially those who see otib as an opportunity to put others down at almost every opportunity! http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/jul/24/internet-anonymity-trolling-tim-adams?CMP=twt_gu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 It's why I think pseudonyms should be banned. Lots less courage when you're not hidden... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 It's why I think pseudonyms should be banned. Lots less courage when you're not hidden... Why would using a Pseudonym make any difference from using your own name. I could put my name here, it would make no difference as none of you would know who I was anyway. I mean I presume your real name is Jordan Tansley, I have to take your word for that, I don't know you in the real world, so you might as well use any name you wish as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Haven't posted on the forum for a while, but have been actively reading threads. Thought this article might be of interest to some, especially those who see otib as an opportunity to put others down at almost every opportunity! http://www.guardian....dams?CMP=twt_gu The same article appeared in the Observer yesterday. No surprises, but rather depressing reading. It confirms the OTIB experience, which is that blogs, social networking sites and forums tend to gravitate over time towards the lowest common denominator, with anger, abuse and negativity on the part of a relative minority gradually coming to dominate over reasoned debate, to the point where many contributors become disaffected with the whole thing and stop taking part. I have lost count of the number opf posts I've read in the last few months that start with "haven't posted for a while", "can't be bothered any more" and so forth. It's been a long close season.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 There are many positives out there that equal the negatives but people chose not to make a fuss over the positives. You only have to watch the soaps on bbc and itv to see people seem to get off on doom and gloom, the soaps are full of crap happening to people and if it was more like the waltons the ratings would go down. Comedians make their living out of taking the pee and being sarcastic out of others misfortune. To be fair it's how people wish to interpret what is said or written in front of them, some things that are put on forums you try and take how they were intended if you stood having a conversation with that person as i know a few off various forums what is put down in print could be seen as an attack but when they say it by mouth it is out of concern and no way a rant or just having a joke but it's taken as an attack when put down in print... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 There are many positives out there that equal the negatives but people chose not to make a fuss over the positives. You only have to watch the soaps on bbc and itv to see people seem to get off on doom and gloom, the soaps are full of crap happening to people and if it was more like the waltons the ratings would go down. Comedians make their living out of taking the pee and being sarcastic out of others misfortune. To be fair it's how people wish to interpret what is said or written in front of them, some things that are put on forums you try and take how they were intended if you stood having a conversation with that person as i know a few off various forums what is put down in print could be seen as an attack but when they say it by mouth it is out of concern and no way a rant or just having a joke but it's taken as an attack when put down in print... I agree with you. Written comment is stripped of social context. No eye contact, tone of voice, facial expression or anything else that would soften confrontation or tell you how to interpret a remark. But the more important point of the article is that anonymity disinhibits people in a way that makes possible the casual use of an aggressive and abusive style that it would be very hard to sustain in a face-to-face interaction. And it often only takes one person to start doing this to drag the whole enterprise down to the lowest level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davros Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I hate you all ! /Hides behind internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I agree with you. Written comment is stripped of social context. No eye contact, tone of voice, facial expression or anything else that would soften confrontation or tell you how to interpret a remark. But the more important point of the article is that anonymity disinhibits people in a way that makes possible the casual use of an aggressive and abusive style that it would be very hard to sustain in a face-to-face interaction. And it often only takes one person to start doing this to drag the whole enterprise down to the lowest level. Thats a fair point about anonymity, and I agree to a point however people are never totally and 100% anonymous as they like to think they are as all forums and website comment blogs will leave an IP and email footprint that can be traced by the owners of those websites, some sites turn the function on to see ip's to everyone and some don't. On another note on places like twitter and facebook people are not scared to show off their rants but again it's not always easy to tell what context it's put down in, many groups, pages on the facebook site are put down like ''i hate man united'' loads join but is it just for fun or is there real hate going on?. Also on face book and twiter anonymous accounts can be traced by the owners of those sites via email and IP'S, everywhere around the internet you leave a foot print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Thats a fair point about anonymity, and I agree to a point however people are never totally and 100% anonymous as they like to think they are as all forums and website comment blogs will leave an IP and email footprint that can be traced by the owners of those websites, some sites turn the function on to see ip's to everyone and some don't. On another note on places like twitter and facebook people are not scared to show off their rants but again it's not always easy to tell what context it's put down in, many groups, pages on the facebook site are put down like ''i hate man united'' loads join but is it just for fun or is there real hate going on?. Also on face book and twiter anonymous accounts can be traced by the owners of those sites via email and IP'S, everywhere around the internet you leave a foot print. Well, you evidently know more about how the internet functions than I do, so I couldn't give you an argument there, though I think you may have taken my reference to anonymity a bit literally. Maybe I should have used another word. Whatever the technicalities might be, I think the essential reality is that most of us couldn't be arsed to track down the true identity of Portishead Percy or Clevedon Clarence even if we knew how to. And even if you did happen to know who it was you were having an online barney with, it wouldn't have the same constraining effect as it would if the other bloke was standing two feet in front of you. The point is that the sort of insults that you often see traded here are hurled from behind a keyboard at someone you can't see and who can't see you. It's that remote nature of the interaction that allows people to be as routinely and casually obnoxious as they are at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Watts Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I hate you all ! /Hides behind internet Hardly hiding behind the internet though...unless you're trying to tell us that you're not actually the creator of the Daleks.....! Damn, that's an anti-climax! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I believe that it is very important for us all to retain our anonymity on here if we prefer to. However, maybe there should be a rule against people printing stuff that they would not be prepared to say to another poster's face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Haven't posted on the forum for a while, but have been actively reading threads. Thought this article might be of interest to some, especially those who see otib as an opportunity to put others down at almost every opportunity! http://www.guardian....dams?CMP=twt_gu You do see the occasional bile filled personal hate post, but they're really relatively few on this forum, such as the ones represented in the article you gave us the link to. As far as putting people down is concerned I would suggest that not many see this forum as an 'opportunity' to do that and I would further suggest that most people come on here in good faith. Certainly sometimes its hard not to be a bit condescending specailly as most of us dont give out to many details about ourselves (I have my real name and town on my profile page so if someone really wanted to know something about me they could), however arguements and condesention will always happen on a forum and to be perfectly frank having read a good deal of stuff on other football club sites this one comes out of it positivley smelling of roses compared to some. I think times and attitudes change, some of us get older, some of us get wiser and some of us are just starting to use these types of Web2.0 type forums, nevertheless I do miss some of the now expired posters such as, Dr Faustus (a gasser maybe but funny with it), Bristol Boy, Redtop et al, but I suspect they spend what used to be their forum time doing something that keeps their blood pressure lower!! (but they are missed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boadle Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 As a former web designer turned video game user interface artist, virtually every connected community that I have been involved in creating a 'hub' for has had a nasty side. The larger the community, the quicker it has turned nasty. Strangely, the smaller the community, or the more 'niche', the more empathy generally shown by it's members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I do miss some of the now expired posters such as, Dr Faustus (a gasser maybe but funny with it), Bristol Boy, Redtop et al, but I suspect they spend what used to be their forum time doing something that keeps their blood pressure lower!! (but they are missed) Yep, certainly missed him over the last few weeks, what with the News International scandal and everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 And even if you did happen to know who it was you were having an online barney with, it wouldn't have the same constraining effect as it would if the other bloke was standing two feet in front of you. The point is that the sort of insults that you often see traded here are hurled from behind a keyboard at someone you can't see and who can't see you. It's that remote nature of the interaction that allows people to be as routinely and casually obnoxious as they are at times. Exactly so. Most forum users know that I've been on the wrong of plenty of bile, obnoxious jibes and personal attacks over the years. I have in the past subsequently met people whom have had an issue with me online. On each occasion we ended up getting along fine and having a laugh about the antics that appear on this forum. The abuse and personal attacks ceased from them after that. Of course there are other keyboard warriors whom I've never met and these are the perpetrators of all the personal attacks that come my way these days. One posted that he really doesn't like me.......yet we've never met. Strange conclusion to reach based simply on my opinions. That's the anonymous nature of internet forum's I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZepperin Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Strange conclusion to reach based simply on my opinions. More likely to have been based on your outrageous wind-up antics, you old devil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Exactly so. Most forum users know that I've been on the wrong of plenty of bile, obnoxious jibes and personal attacks over the years. I have in the past subsequently met people whom have had an issue with me online. On each occasion we ended up getting along fine and having a laugh about the antics that appear on this forum. The abuse and personal attacks ceased from them after that. Of course there are other keyboard warriors whom I've never met and these are the perpetrators of all the personal attacks that come my way these days. One posted that he really doesn't like me.......yet we've never met. Strange conclusion to reach based simply on my opinions. That's the anonymous nature of internet forum's I guess. My guess is that if you put all the members in a room, each wearing a name badge with their forum handle on it, and allowed them time to mingle and get to know one another a bit, the outcome would be, in the overwhelming majority of cases, good natured and friendly - especially if the room was equipped with a bar. It's quite heartwarming to hear your story, which tends to confirm this long-held belief. It's the manner in which people "meet" (or rather, don't) on the forum that gives rise to the element of hostility. That said, it's difficult to see how it can be changed: appealing to people's better nature online just doesn't seem to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Uff.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Yep, certainly missed him over the last few weeks, what with the News International scandal and everything! Funny, that didn't even cross my mind! I suspect my comment about keeping blood pressure lower may not apply right now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Yep, certainly missed him over the last few weeks, what with the News International scandal and everything! Yes what a fine headline on Saturday morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Yes what a fine headline on Saturday morning Indeed. Makes you so proud that that rag is the most bought paper in this country doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 An interesting read, but I've been saying this for over 5 yrs tbh. Hardly a revelation. If it was up to me I would blow up all the satellites orbiting earth and cut all the underground fibre cables so the internet was stopped in its tracks i know exactly where they are laid as i worked for Pirelli marine cables, and we laid it. ...somewhere in cornwall.... How has the internet helped society? The internet is the worst thing to EVER to happen to the human race, its not natural. How many trillions of hours have been lost by people using the internet for myspace facebook, youtube etc and all that mind numbing bollocks? Where is the learning? This is why kids these days are so ******* stupidly thick and generally pathetic. Poor bastards, not their fault most are vapid social rejects. Where are they days of reading a good book, or studying properly for your exams (instead of cutting and pasting wiki?) Sad days ahead. The USA, Oh the USA. Its hard to get across how seriously in the deepest shit they are, deep deep deep shit. I cant actually wait until the American soldiers dont get paid or the American people dont get their social and the $ becomes worthless. This world is ******, its ****** so badly ****** yet people just dont seem to be able to acknowledge it. If anyone has a lot of savings i suggest you spend it as you would if we were approaching a WWIII, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 In my opinion, the amount of bile, personal insult, unconstructive criticism and unfounded abuse written by someone is, as a general rule, inversely proportional to the level of intelligence of the poster. The higher the abuse, the lower the IQ. There is a saying "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" - wishful thinking, I'm sure we all agree, but the richness of English as a language is something to admire. Why waste it making up dull, knuckledragging, abusive comments or using the current buzzwords of street language when reading a properly written character assassination in good English is much more enjoyable. Who needs vitirol and abuse when you have the beauty of quotes like: "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire" (Churchill)" "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it" (Mark Twain) "He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends.." (Oscar Wilde) "Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go." (Oscar Wilde) - and not a four-letter word to be seen - wonderful stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 In my opinion, the amount of bile, personal insult, unconstructive criticism and unfounded abuse written by someone is, as a general rule, inversely proportional to the level of intelligence of the poster. The higher the abuse, the lower the IQ. There is a saying "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" - wishful thinking, I'm sure we all agree, but the richness of English as a language is something to admire. Why waste it making up dull, knuckledragging, abusive comments or using the current buzzwords of street language when reading a properly written character assassination in good English is much more enjoyable. Who needs vitirol and abuse when you have the beauty of quotes like: "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire" (Churchill)" "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it" (Mark Twain) "He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends.." (Oscar Wilde) "Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go." (Oscar Wilde) - and not a four-letter word to be seen - wonderful stuff! A couple of those quotes wouldn't ever be used by certain posters on this forum because of their sexual orientation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 In my opinion, the amount of bile, personal insult, unconstructive criticism and unfounded abuse written by someone is, as a general rule, inversely proportional to the level of intelligence of the poster. The higher the abuse, the lower the IQ. There is a saying "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" - wishful thinking, I'm sure we all agree, but the richness of English as a language is something to admire. Why waste it making up dull, knuckledragging, abusive comments or using the current buzzwords of street language when reading a properly written character assassination in good English is much more enjoyable. Who needs vitirol and abuse when you have the beauty of quotes like: "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire" (Churchill)" "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it" (Mark Twain) "He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends.." (Oscar Wilde) "Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go." (Oscar Wilde) - and not a four-letter word to be seen - wonderful stuff! In contrast I present Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red Planet Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 An interesting read, but I've been saying this for over 5 yrs tbh. Hardly a revelation. If it was up to me I would blow up all the satellites orbiting earth and cut all the underground fibre cables so the internet was stopped in its tracks i know exactly where they are laid as i worked for Pirelli marine cables, and we laid it. ...somewhere in cornwall.... How has the internet helped society? The internet is the worst thing to EVER to happen to the human race, its not natural. How many trillions of hours have been lost by people using the internet for myspace facebook, youtube etc and all that mind numbing bollocks? Where is the learning? This is why kids these days are so ******* stupidly thick and generally pathetic. Poor bastards, not their fault most are vapid social rejects. Where are they days of reading a good book, or studying properly for your exams (instead of cutting and pasting wiki?) Sad days ahead. The USA, Oh the USA. Its hard to get across how seriously in the deepest shit they are, deep deep deep shit. I cant actually wait until the American soldiers dont get paid or the American people dont get their social and the $ becomes worthless. This world is ******, its ****** so badly ****** yet people just dont seem to be able to acknowledge it. If anyone has a lot of savings i suggest you spend it as you would if we were approaching a WWIII, Sorry TW, I can't agree that the internet is bad, it has created access to EVERYTHING (good and bad) and in general has added to the sum of human knowledge. However, I do agree that the USA is in big trouble, in fact the whole Western world has a financial Tsunami heading our way that will make the banking crisis of 2007/8 look like a tea party. Essentially we have been living in a fantasy world based on borrowed money (not real wealth creation) for some decades now and the chickens are coming home to roost big time. It's going to be horrific and at the end of it, ten years from now China and India will rule the world. Our time is over. Fellow City fans, if you have some spare cash, I advise you to buy gold NOW ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 An interesting read, but I've been saying this for over 5 yrs tbh. Hardly a revelation. If it was up to me I would blow up all the satellites orbiting earth and cut all the underground fibre cables so the internet was stopped in its tracks i know exactly where they are laid as i worked for Pirelli marine cables, and we laid it. ...somewhere in cornwall.... How has the internet helped society? The internet is the worst thing to EVER to happen to the human race, its not natural. How many trillions of hours have been lost by people using the internet for myspace facebook, youtube etc and all that mind numbing bollocks? Where is the learning? This is why kids these days are so ******* stupidly thick and generally pathetic. Poor bastards, not their fault most are vapid social rejects. Where are they days of reading a good book, or studying properly for your exams (instead of cutting and pasting wiki?) Sad days ahead. The USA, Oh the USA. Its hard to get across how seriously in the deepest shit they are, deep deep deep shit. I cant actually wait until the American soldiers dont get paid or the American people dont get their social and the $ becomes worthless. This world is ******, its ****** so badly ****** yet people just dont seem to be able to acknowledge it. If anyone has a lot of savings i suggest you spend it as you would if we were approaching a WWIII, I think you may be overlooking some of the, ahem, more beneficial parts of the Internet. It's not all bad. I think I've stood next to the anonymous little shed that marks the point where the Internet comes out of the sea in Cornwall. Always wondered why it isn't a little more protected. Somewhere near a submarine telegraph museum which was another disappointment as they weren't actually telegraphs going to submarines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 I think you may be overlooking some of the, ahem, more beneficial parts of the Internet. It's not all bad. I think I've stood next to the anonymous little shed that marks the point where the Internet comes out of the sea in Cornwall. Always wondered why it isn't a little more protected. Somewhere near a submarine telegraph museum which was another disappointment as they weren't actually telegraphs going to submarines. Aye indeed, porn is important I forgot that.... When I wur lad I had to rely on the local tramp distributing crusty old mags about the woods. You all remember don't you? Ahh porn of yesteryear. WTF?! There should not be a shed highlighting it! I had to sign the official secrets act before working on this so I find it extremely disturbing its position is common knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boadle Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 The internet is the worst thing to EVER to happen to the human race, its not natural. They said the same about the Gutenberg printing press in 1451. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted July 25, 2011 Report Share Posted July 25, 2011 Sorry TW, I can't agree that the internet is bad, it has created access to EVERYTHING (good and bad) and in general has added to the sum of human knowledge. However, I do agree that the USA is in big trouble, in fact the whole Western world has a financial Tsunami heading our way that will make the banking crisis of 2007/8 look like a tea party. Essentially we have been living in a fantasy world based on borrowed money (not real wealth creation) for some decades now and the chickens are coming home to roost big time. It's going to be horrific and at the end of it, ten years from now China and India will rule the world. Our time is over. Fellow City fans, if you have some spare cash, I advise you to buy gold NOW ! Totally agree about the fantasy world of borrowing. Its hard to get your head round the severity of it all. There is nothing to compare it too. Until recently I too belived China and India would reap the benifits of the global crisis, but not at all - their economy's and ours are inextricably linked. When we go down, they go down. Albeit a little later perhaps. Global debt serves no one so why do we suffer it? Who actually gains from it? Its just numbers on a computer server isist it? So I ask again why do we suffer it? One things for sure, the internet has played its part in this. The Rise of China and cheap electronic goods, the Arab Spring, the Dot/com bubble, the housing bubble, human rights, overgrowing population and a mamals desire for space to call its own, lack of food, relegion, global warming, necular war and man desire to aquire and posess. When you add it all up its hardly surprising we are where we are. Well I'm not going down without a fight! sod that. I don't think I'm being too paranoid in quiet preparation for the worst. I'm afraid for some that IT skills or knowledge of the insurance market will be of little use in a few years. Better get ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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