fka dagest Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Tim Vickery blog the above link refers to a new league format being tried out in Argentina for the next season. It will consist of one giant league with 38 teams. Sounds slightly unworkable to me and will probably result in a large mount of mid-table teams not having much to play for. Having said that there would be plusses like a greater variety of games and (I assume) a more equitable sharing of cash. Personally I think the English league stopped being a genuine competition with the advent of the Premier League. I don't like the carve-up by super-rich clubs who add titles in a monotonous fashion year after year. Could we propose something different here? I simply wonder if increased promotion and relegation spots would make the league more interesting. 5 down and up in each league would certainly make things more fluid. That's just one idea. What do others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 no Just as I was settling down to enjoy an interesting thread....... Murderer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evocare Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Just as I was settling down to enjoy an interesting thread....... Murderer! Settle down. Its a no for me too. If it aint broke? And to be perfectly honest I'm not that happy adopting anything Argentinian thank-you, least of all to do with Football. Our set up is the envy of the World, its not perfect, but its as close as we can get right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red23 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Has this got anything to do with the relegation of River Plate?! Some mass change to protect a big club Or maybe they have been planning it for ages and it is just a lucky escape for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphindevon Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 When the Premier League started people were saying it would be a closed shop and playing in the top flight would never happen to the likes of Bristol City again. Well although we haven't got to the promised land yet, an amazing 45 clubs have, that's about half of the professional clubs in England. I know it's a stat' that doesn't make us City fans feel any better, especially when you see some of the small town clubs that have played in the PL, we can still live in hope with the system we've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94th Minute Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 I don't see the point in making a bigger league, that's for sure, however I quite like the idea of increasing the number of promotion spots. It would depend on someone putting a strong case forward for how many points difference relates to being 'in a promotion/relegation battle' and what a normal distribution of points up to 3 games from the end of the season would be. It really isn't too complicated maths to see that it probably should follow a bell shaped curve (over a long enough period of observation), so by squeezing the upper and lower limits (promotion and relegation places) more and more teams would be involved in the battle for more substantial percentage of the season. I do think its absurd IF some teams end up in a mid table nothing end to the season year in year out... to be honest though, I simply haven't done the research, nor have I followed football statistics comprehensively enough (much to my shame), to know if there are some teams who consistently finish the season with 10 uncompetitive games. There is nothing wrong with having one season where you play for nothing, but I think it's wrong if it happens over and over again From the initial replies though, it seems that people don't think there is a problem... if there is, I completely agree, but it would be up to you to prove that to make it into a debate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickle Rick Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Has this got anything to do with the relegation of River Plate?! Some mass change to protect a big club Or maybe they have been planning it for ages and it is just a lucky escape for them Definitely the latter............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Has this got anything to do with the relegation of River Plate?! Some mass change to protect a big club Or maybe they have been planning it for ages and it is just a lucky escape for them that's the first thing i thought of as well. the old style protected the big clubs as it did, let alone changing it again once they got relegated. If it aint broke, dont fix it in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonPikeUK Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Saw River Plate last season and was amazed by the passionate support (east Enders in every seat) but surprised by the lack of quality, apart from a cameo by the ageing Ariel Ortega. Therefore their relegation and refining of leagues for one season is unsurprising. Is this something worth discussing? No, it's a crap idea and until ManU get relegated and corruption is even more rife, isn't something that will happen. In my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 'if it ain't broke' - It clearly and quite spectacularly is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evocare Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 'if it ain't broke' - It clearly and quite spectacularly is? Financially yes maybe, but its up to the clubs to manage their finances. Is that it, or what is something else..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Financially yes maybe, but its up to the clubs to manage their finances. Is that it, or what is something else..? Bollocks is it, the clubs have shown themselves to be completely incapable of regulating themselves for some time, and the Premier League does sweet FA about it on a consistent basis. I am ashamed whenever Richard Scudamore's name is linked with this club and forever will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evocare Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Bollocks is it, the clubs have shown themselves to be completely incapable of regulating themselves for some time, and the Premier League does sweet FA about it on a consistent basis. I am ashamed whenever Richard Scudamore's name is linked with this club and forever will be. I'm not sure what powers the PL have to do much. Too much bureaucracy and too many people to please now it's big money. It's annoying, virtually all the money that British Clubs turnover bypasses our treasury. Between the Government, the FA, EUFA, FIFA, the PL, the Clubs and their shareholder, the fans and the heritage committee I think something could be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 I'm not sure what powers the PL have to do much. Too much bureaucracy and too many people to please now it's big money. It's annoying, virtually all the money that British Clubs turnover bypasses our treasury. Between the Government, the FA, EUFA, FIFA, the PL, the Clubs and their shareholder, the fans and the heritage committee I think something could be done. The PL has as much or as little power as it sees fit. They choose to turn a blind eye and the 'fit and proper' tests they do for prospective owners are a complete waste of time. Alan Sugar (ironically a man partly responsible for getting english football into this mess) grilled Scudamore on the economics of the EPL not long back for Panorama and he squirmed and came out with some vague garbage about nothing in particular, probably floating around on YouTube somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 their changing it because river plate got relegated, expect the same to happen in this country if Liverpool or Man U went down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin101 Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 their changing it because river plate got relegated, expect the same to happen in this country if Liverpool or Man U went down That just would not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 If there was any risk of a big club like man u or Liverpool going down, the premier league would shut up shop. The only restructuring that will possibly happen will be to have two leagues of 18 teams. I wouldn't be surprised to see the bottom tiers be regionalised, with cross league play offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 If there was any risk of a big club like man u or Liverpool going down, the premier league would shut up shop. The only restructuring that will possibly happen will be to have two leagues of 18 teams. I wouldn't be surprised to see the bottom tiers be regionalised, with cross league play offs. if that ever happened I don't think I'd ever attend a football match again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 if that ever happened I don't think I'd ever attend a football match again. Don't encourage them Seriously though I can only see protectionism getting worse at the higher levels, as people bid to make safe their investment. Unfortuantly foriegn owners will not have the same love for our traditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Don't encourage them Seriously though I can only see protectionism getting worse at the higher levels, as people bid to make safe their investment. Unfortuantly foriegn owners will not have the same love for our traditions. **** off! I agree, but if anything like that happened I imagine Spudski would be rallying the troops for italian inspired strike action. I think something like that could really spark a fans revolution in football, which surprisingly would probably do it the world of good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 I'd suggest the clubs aren't all that bothered what the fans think, and fans of Prem clubs wouldn't take any action. Sad I know, but that's just where we are now. The only thing that will change football for the better, would be a financial collapse of epic proportions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 I'd suggest the clubs aren't all that bothered what the fans think, and fans of Prem clubs wouldn't take any action. Sad I know, but that's just where we are now. The only thing that will change football for the better, would be a financial collapse of epic proportions. I meant more along the lines of the 72 league clubs who would care. Agree so very much with your last statement. I think that necessity for financial collapse goes beyond football and extends right across the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northampton Red Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 I don't see the point in making a bigger league, that's for sure, however I quite like the idea of increasing the number of promotion spots. It would depend on someone putting a strong case forward for how many points difference relates to being 'in a promotion/relegation battle' and what a normal distribution of points up to 3 games from the end of the season would be. It really isn't too complicated maths to see that it probably should follow a bell shaped curve (over a long enough period of observation), so by squeezing the upper and lower limits (promotion and relegation places) more and more teams would be involved in the battle for more substantial percentage of the season. I do think its absurd IF some teams end up in a mid table nothing end to the season year in year out... to be honest though, I simply haven't done the research, nor have I followed football statistics comprehensively enough (much to my shame), to know if there are some teams who consistently finish the season with 10 uncompetitive games. There is nothing wrong with having one season where you play for nothing, but I think it's wrong if it happens over and over again From the initial replies though, it seems that people don't think there is a problem... if there is, I completely agree, but it would be up to you to prove that to make it into a debate I think any changes that happen are always going to be disliked by the so-called 'big five' as the set up massively goes in their favour. The system certainly isn't ideal, although as someone said at least it is one where competition between the leagues is quite apparent despite parachute payments and the general feeling that certain teams who are and make it into the premier league are there to just make up the numbers. P.S Completely off topic but 94th Minute-whereabouts in Philly are you? My daughter lives in West Chester and I'm over there every few months or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northampton Red Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 I don't see the point in making a bigger league, that's for sure, however I quite like the idea of increasing the number of promotion spots. It would depend on someone putting a strong case forward for how many points difference relates to being 'in a promotion/relegation battle' and what a normal distribution of points up to 3 games from the end of the season would be. It really isn't too complicated maths to see that it probably should follow a bell shaped curve (over a long enough period of observation), so by squeezing the upper and lower limits (promotion and relegation places) more and more teams would be involved in the battle for more substantial percentage of the season. I do think its absurd IF some teams end up in a mid table nothing end to the season year in year out... to be honest though, I simply haven't done the research, nor have I followed football statistics comprehensively enough (much to my shame), to know if there are some teams who consistently finish the season with 10 uncompetitive games. There is nothing wrong with having one season where you play for nothing, but I think it's wrong if it happens over and over again From the initial replies though, it seems that people don't think there is a problem... if there is, I completely agree, but it would be up to you to prove that to make it into a debate I think any changes that happen are always going to be disliked by the so-called 'big five' as the set up massively goes in their favour. The system certainly isn't ideal, although as someone said at least it is one where competition between the leagues is quite apparent despite parachute payments and the general feeling that certain teams who are and make it into the premier league are there to just make up the numbers. P.S Completely off topic but 94th Minute-whereabouts in Philly are you? My daughter lives in West Chester and I'm over there every few months or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94th Minute Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I think any changes that happen are always going to be disliked by the so-called 'big five' as the set up massively goes in their favour. The system certainly isn't ideal, although as someone said at least it is one where competition between the leagues is quite apparent despite parachute payments and the general feeling that certain teams who are and make it into the premier league are there to just make up the numbers. P.S Completely off topic but 94th Minute-whereabouts in Philly are you? My daughter lives in West Chester and I'm over there every few months or so. I guess its always going to be a problem that the big 5 would be against any changes to the setup changes, I'd ideally like to see it as increased teams switching divisions each season, it might even help avoid the problems of teams taking major risks to stay in the Premier League, as there is a decent chance of sustaining promotion again soon after relegation, perhaps setting up the possibility for yoyo clubs who, for a few seasons at least, play a season or two in a higher division, before dropping back to a lower one, recuperating, before making a more sustainable effort for higher league football. Okay I'll admit it, that sounds pretty rubbish as an idea, but I think its one of the best things about the UK football league (especially compared to say the NHL etc, where no changing of the teams happens) that in theory any team football league could be playing against Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal in 4 years, increasing the chance of that can't be a bad thing. Sadly I'm actually not in Philadelphia anymore , my work visa there came to an end. I was living in Ardmore (a nice little town on the main line) working in King of Prussia (just a few miles away from the mall, and what a mall it is!). Lovely place to live, genuinely sport mad city, with good reason to be... definitely want to go back there to work again some time soon, shame that this damn recession had to hit when it did! Do you get to much sport when you're over there, I'd do anything to be back sat in Citizen's Bank Park on a long summer evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northampton Red Posted August 3, 2011 Report Share Posted August 3, 2011 I guess its always going to be a problem that the big 5 would be against any changes to the setup changes, I'd ideally like to see it as increased teams switching divisions each season, it might even help avoid the problems of teams taking major risks to stay in the Premier League, as there is a decent chance of sustaining promotion again soon after relegation, perhaps setting up the possibility for yoyo clubs who, for a few seasons at least, play a season or two in a higher division, before dropping back to a lower one, recuperating, before making a more sustainable effort for higher league football. Okay I'll admit it, that sounds pretty rubbish as an idea, but I think its one of the best things about the UK football league (especially compared to say the NHL etc, where no changing of the teams happens) that in theory any team football league could be playing against Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal in 4 years, increasing the chance of that can't be a bad thing. Sadly I'm actually not in Philadelphia anymore , my work visa there came to an end. I was living in Ardmore (a nice little town on the main line) working in King of Prussia (just a few miles away from the mall, and what a mall it is!). Lovely place to live, genuinely sport mad city, with good reason to be... definitely want to go back there to work again some time soon, shame that this damn recession had to hit when it did! Do you get to much sport when you're over there, I'd do anything to be back sat in Citizen's Bank Park on a long summer evening. Yeah I think I have been through Ardmore on the SEPTA before, my ex used to work in the King of Prussia mall at Rock Bottom Brewery! I know what you mean about being sports mad, I've been to Citizen's Bank for a game and did some tailgating which was brilliant, would never be allowed here. Had a tour of the Linc which was cool but have never seen a game there. A month or so ago my friend and I watched a Union game at the PPL Park which, for a team just over a year old has a bigger average attendence than us shockingly!! Was amazed at the singing and chanting as well, it's nice to see football on the rise over there. Some truly beautiful parts and some truly rough parts around Philly, and the people there are on the whole very warm and friendly. I have done my best to spread the gospel of BCFC whenever I am over there. Think there is some historical link between Philadelphia and Bristol as well, maybe Red Goblin can enlghten us if he is reading this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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