Is Anyone Seriously Suprised At Saturdays Result?

[Br1stolCityBoy]

of course, but the second goal was lack of coaching, lack of technique and lack of a right footed central defender, all of those things Millen should have control over, the lack technique was evident all last season, city's back 4 idea of being tight is being able to see the bloke your marking and backing off to give the attacker an open invitation to decide whether he cuts in or out. As I have already said that rarely happend in West Ham v Cardiff match yesterday, because the defences are properly coached.

I thought that the 2nd goal was due to Skuse giving the ball away just outside the box...Thats what it seemed from where I was sitting, I havent seen it yet on the box. But hopefully I will in about 30mins on ITV news.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Lack of coaching? Fontaine, a good, solid defender had a terrible game. In the play-off final season, where we had one of the best defences around, we played 2 right-footed defenders. The idea that Fontaine ****** up because he's left footed is a fallacy and rubbish.

Well I actually agree with that, I only put it in because another Millen fanatic used it as an excuse so it must be true.

Fontaine is a great defender, but needs a strong minder to partner him, otherwise he tends to get easily bullied.

Lack of coaching, definately our defenders very rarely get tight enough to the attacker they are marking, have a good look back at many of the goals we shipped in especially at home last season, far too many came from defenders backing off and giving the attacker far too much space.

[Ron]

Lack of coaching, definately our defenders very rarely get tight enough to the attacker they are marking, have a good look back at many of the goals we shipped in especially at home last season, far too many came from defenders backing off and giving the attacker far too much space.

Last season you'd see Macca doing that a lot, as a general point for the rest of the defence it wasn't such a problem. The rest of the back 4 were solid on Saturday and Fontaine was out of sorts. Fwiw he had a very good game vs. WBA the week before.

[spudski]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hrn5Iwjjpk

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Last season you'd see Macca doing that a lot, as a general point for the rest of the defence it wasn't such a problem. The rest of the back 4 were solid on Saturday and Fontaine was out of sorts. Fwiw he had a very good game vs. WBA the week before.

We will have to agree to disagree, but I do remember a thread last season where the OP complained how susceptible we were down the middle and the amount of goals we conceded down the middle, especially when the dream team occupied the central midfield positions and also made comment about central defenders backing off.

[beaverface]

Personally I wasn't, and have even put a tenner on City not to win any of the next 6 League fixtures. It saddened me to do it, and i would to love to lose that Tenner by next Sunday. But it's worth a punt.

I was really disappointed to see KM say, regarding the result,'that he didn't see that coming'. Many of us did...

I also find it incredible that players like Nyatanga are talking of a top two position. Have we a squad of delusional players and staff? They must be doing something in Training that we don't see on match day.

The only positive from Saturday for me, was Kilkenny. He came on, took control, constantly spoke to players, and our game went from hoof ball to passing from deep, and some actual build up play. From what i saw, if we had played him from the start,the result could have been a lot different. At least a draw.

I was especially disappointed in Maynard, Stead and Adomah...all looked totally not at the races.

Does anyone else think the decision making by KM and Wiggers, is all rather a bit slow? They seem to take forever in making changes. Far too late to make any difference. Perhaps it was because KM thought we were matching Ipswich in most departments, which he has alluded to, but imho, we were awful, showing no composure and very little movement. Ipswich were very average, but well organised. They hardly broke into a sweat.

Hopefully...KM and the team will prove me wrong and i will lose that tenner. COYR's

1. You only need look at the prediction thread to see how many of us weren't convinced we'd win - the signs have been there for a long time.

2. When Killkenny came on, he sat far too deep and tbh, looked desperate to get the ball. I like that, but it was far too late for him to influence the game. It's been said numerous times, but I'll re-iterate it - I can't believe not one of the four signings we made in the summer started the game, and yet Paul Jewell gave something like 6 or 7 debuts and Paul Buckle made 10 !!

A couple of other points I'd like to make...

1. if Gerkin isn't deemed good enough to step into James' shoes when he inevitably drops his clangers, then we need to get rid of Gerkin - there's no point having him if we don't trust him either.

2. If players keep losing concentration, and keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again, ie. sloppy passes, not getting tight whilst defending, giving free headers at corners, jumping out the way of freekicks, then they need to know there will be repercussions, but the way I see it, we keep churning out the same players game after game.

If it is true that 12 players are out of contract next season, then this is probably a good thing that we can finally get rid of the players who are too complacent and things too easy. Maybe KM should send some of fringe players out to some of the less glamorous football clubs so they then get a perspective of how nice it is here.

BTW, I noticed Charlie Adam saying that he didn't have to wash his own kit now that he's playing for Liverpool, do City's players have to wash their own kit, or does our kitman take care of it all? Would be good to give the players a little bit more responsibility.

[RedRaw]

What's the point in making things up? It weakens your argument considerably.

who is making things up? Robbored suggested that James made two howlers......his career is littered with them including a few last season

Two more Saturday, so what will Millen do about it?......if he keeps on picking players that continue to make the same mistakes then he must take the blame

So apart from that, you agree with my other opinions then?

[spudski]

Can you imagine the telephone call between SL and KM if he dropped DJ to the bench?

The Keeper the Chairman wanted and supposedly pays 15 grand a week out of his own pocket. Can't see it myself...

[RedRaw]

Can you imagine the telephone call between SL and KM if he dropped DJ to the bench?

The Keeper the Chairman wanted and supposedly pays 15 grand a week out of his own pocket. Can't see it myself...

If true, SL is required to pay the15k whether he plays or not.....if he continues to make mistakes that cost us goals and/or games and still gets picked then thats just plain stupid

[Jordan Tansley]

who is making things up? Robbored suggested that James made two howlers......his career is littered with them including a few last season

Two more Saturday, so what will Millen do about it?......if he keeps on picking players that continue to make the same mistakes then he must take the blame

So apart from that, you agree with my other opinions then?

You're making things up as James doesn't "continually make mistakes" He makes mistakes like any other player, and his ones are always going to stick in the mind as he is the last line of defence and it will generally result in a goal but to suggest he "continually makes mistakes" is absurd. He makes far more amazing saves that he has no right to than he makes mistakes and has saved us from conceding more times than he has cost us a goal.

On your other points;

I think this sudden notion that having two left footed centre halves is in any way relevant laughable.

I think that Killkenny has hardly had any game time in pre-season after picking up a knock and it was entirely justifiable to leave him out, hindsight is a wonderful thing but had Killkenny started and got injured I'm sure the very same posters would be blaming Keith for that as well...

I rate JCR highly and think it typical of City fans to find him keeping possession and trying to look up and slow the play down annoying. City fans would moan about Barcelona style football as they love players like Danny Haynes and Ivan Sproule who made careers out of running down blind alleys.

We played in a even, all be it dull, game of football and three mistakes cost us the game. Mistakes of that nature are rare and you cannot possibly plan for them. Ron has summed it up perfectly for me and I thought we looked pretty solid defensively but for the mistakes. Ipswich didn't cause us any real problems and we had a decent amount of possession too. On another day we would have won the game 1-0 and everyone would be happy as larry. People claim the Newcastle away game was one of the best they've seen yet we got battered and got very lucky... on another day we would have been on the end of a hiding.

Very fine lines but people love to look at a result and make wild assumptions and blind over reactions about them without considering the true details.

[spudski]

If true, SL is required to pay the15k whether he plays or not.....if he continues to make mistakes that cost us goals and/or games and still gets picked then thats just plain stupid

There have been many footballing decisions made at BCFC over recent seasons, that imho, are just plain stupid...so no change there then.

There must be something in the water around these parts...over the many years, regardless of Chairman, board, managers and players...we just can't seem to nail it. Very weird considering.

[Red Exile]

People claim the Newcastle away game was one of the best they've seen yet we got battered and got very lucky... on another day we would have been on the end of a hiding.

Very fine lines but people love to look at a result and make wild assumptions and blind over reactions about them without considering the true details.

The Newcastle game was on another thread as a great day out...probably the very last day of celebration of the "Johnson bounce around" era...

But I couldn't agree more that we were battered and very lucky to escape with a point! It certainly wasn't a feast of football.

[spudski]

You're making things up as James doesn't "continually make mistakes" He makes mistakes like any other player, and his ones are always going to stick in the mind as he is the last line of defence and it will generally result in a goal but to suggest he "continually makes mistakes" is absurd. He makes far more amazing saves that he has no right to than he makes mistakes and has saved us from conceding more times than he has cost us a goal.

David 'Calamity' James wouldn't have that nickname if he hadn't earn't that reputation. Unfortunately as Keeper, if you make a mistake it's likely to be costly.

DJ is a good keeper, but way past his best imho, but the best we have in our squad.

As for Saturday, For all 3 goals i think he could have done better...which is a shame.

[Red_Jim]

You're making things up as James doesn't "continually make mistakes" He makes mistakes like any other player, and his ones are always going to stick in the mind as he is the last line of defence and it will generally result in a goal but to suggest he "continually makes mistakes" is absurd. He makes far more amazing saves that he has no right to than he makes mistakes and has saved us from conceding more times than he has cost us a goal.

On your other points;

I think this sudden notion that having two left footed centre halves is in any way relevant laughable.

I think that Killkenny has hardly had any game time in pre-season after picking up a knock and it was entirely justifiable to leave him out, hindsight is a wonderful thing but had Killkenny started and got injured I'm sure the very same posters would be blaming Keith for that as well...

I rate JCR highly and think it typical of City fans to find him keeping possession and trying to look up and slow the play down annoying. City fans would moan about Barcelona style football as they love players like Danny Haynes and Ivan Sproule who made careers out of running down blind alleys.

We played in a even, all be it dull, game of football and three mistakes cost us the game. Mistakes of that nature are rare and you cannot possibly plan for them. Ron has summed it up perfectly for me and I thought we looked pretty solid defensively but for the mistakes. Ipswich didn't cause us any real problems and we had a decent amount of possession too. On another day we would have won the game 1-0 and everyone would be happy as larry. People claim the Newcastle away game was one of the best they've seen yet we got battered and got very lucky... on another day we would have been on the end of a hiding.

Very fine lines but people love to look at a result and make wild assumptions and blind over reactions about them without considering the true details.

It amazes me how you continually manage to counteract any adverse comment towards the team - you're clutching at straws! Firstly, saying City fans loved Haynes and Sproule is a massive generalisation - many didn't rate either of them. I certainly didn't rate Sproule, and I didn't think Haynes was much cop either. JCR gets a rough ride on here (some of it unfair) but to be honest, how effective is he? Why is Millen still trying to play an unbalanced team? He's had 46 games and we're still shite! When will you start to see the light? We don't score goals, we give terrible ones away, we've got a midfield that can't pass water, Millen hasn't sorted out the defence AT ALL (and he was a defender by trade!)

We're going nowhere this bunch of players (with the exception of 1 or 2 decent ones) and this bloke in charge - we could well be relegated. It's not just Millen's fault, the board have to take some portion of the blame for their piss-poor decision making since we got into this league. I'm sick and tired of this City team rolling over 0-3, 0-4 at home - it's pathetic. We need someone to come in and shake this club up but no-one at Bristol City has the nous or balls to take charge of the situation - we're sleepwalking towards League One, after all the hard work it took to get here.

Jordan, while I admire your stubborness and I do sometimes think some people are too negative on here, I'm seriously fed up of this and I can honestly say that, now I live in London, it pains me to say I don't miss going down Ashton Gate anymore.

[T R]

It's obvious to me from saturday that this club is lacking in confidence, it's all having a negative effect on everyone. We need a player who will stand up and take the fight on. like a scott murray, brian tinnion to give the whole club a lift. I am really dissapointed at the moment, but hopefully tomorrows game will be a classic, lots of drama and entertainment. but im not confident :tounge:

[RedRaw]

You're making things up as James doesn't "continually make mistakes" He makes mistakes like any other player, and his ones are always going to stick in the mind as he is the last line of defence and it will generally result in a goal but to suggest he "continually makes mistakes" is absurd. He makes far more amazing saves that he has no right to than he makes mistakes and has saved us from conceding more times than he has cost us a goal.

For the record, that is not necessarily my personal opinion of James. I was responding to Robbored about players making the same mistakes and still getting picked, he commented on his two howlers

On your other points;

I think this sudden notion that having two left footed centre halves is in any way relevant laughable.

Not relevant maybe to the goals conceived but relevant as to why thery were picked in the first place when he had other options

I think that Killkenny has hardly had any game time in pre-season after picking up a knock and it was entirely justifiable to leave him out, hindsight is a wonderful thing but had Killkenny started and got injured I'm sure the very same posters would be blaming Keith for that as well...

I dont think its hindsight, based on several factors Killkenny appears to be the better player and Millen declared the squad fit and ready before the weekend, as did Kilkenny. Me, I would have played Kilkenny from the start and then bring on the lesser skuse later if he was kilkenny was struggling for fitness...instead he's brought on after 63 when we are 3-0 down

I rate JCR highly and think it typical of City fans to find him keeping possession and trying to look up and slow the play down annoying. City fans would moan about Barcelona style football as they love players like Danny Haynes and Ivan Sproule who made careers out of running down blind alleys.

To me JCR plays at his best on the wing, cutting in to the middle on occasions. Saturday seemed to me that he was asked to drift into the middle almnost as the creative midfielder leaving mcallister exposed on many occasions. I dont blame JCR as that was obviously the Managers call

We played in a even, all be it dull, game of football and three mistakes cost us the game. Mistakes of that nature are rare and you cannot possibly plan for them. Ron has summed it up perfectly for me and I thought we looked pretty solid defensively but for the mistakes. Ipswich didn't cause us any real problems and we had a decent amount of possession too. On another day we would have won the game 1-0 and everyone would be happy as larry.

Granted, we gifted Ipswich the 3 goals but cant agree that we looked solid defensively......Its back to the original point of the thread for me.......same players, same mistakes, same outcomes. As for decent amount of possesion, Ipswich, the away team who "didn't cause us any real"problems had 51%.....what possesion we did have was mainly across the back line and midfield

People claim the Newcastle away game was one of the best they've seen yet we got battered and got very lucky... on another day we would have been on the end of a hiding.

Very fine lines but people love to look at a result and make wild assumptions and blind over reactions about them without considering the true details.

The true details are that we lost 3-0 at home to an "average" side leting in 3 sloppy goals through mistakes made by the same group of players.....the royal we, Manager, coaches and players are not dealing with the issues that was so obvious last season

[arpaul]

Surely you must acknowledge that once the players cross the line the manager has to rely on them.

/quote]

You never acknowledged it when Mr Johnson was in charge......... It was always "the players are playing to the managers instructions"

I agree that Mr Johnsons time was up, however, the football/entertainment has not improved since our current manager took up the reins!

Of the 45 minutes that I managed to stomach on Saturday, I thought Ipswich were no more than average... As for us? Shocking. Horrendous, Inexcusable, Tosh.

To simply lay down without a fight is not acceptable.

James, Inatangle, Skuse, Elliott and the pedestrian Cambell-Rice were awful. Maynard Stead and Adomah not much better, although admitedly they were starved of service.

Having been a regular at Ashton Gate since 1968, and a season ticket holder for the best part of 25 years or more, I can't ever remember walking out at half time during the first game of a new season.

The management team need to sort it out quickly. Maybe Swindon is a bigger game than any of us imagined.