DOLMANDAN Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 If we had changed the playing staff en mass as some on here were suggesting we could be in the same plight as the blue few. Who no matter how you dress it up are shocking at the moment. Leicester at a higher level have brought in shed loads of players and are not exactly setting the world alight are they.I am not saying that in the future all these players may click and they may play well, but the risk is that they may not and then what happens. I can imagine this forum imploding if Kieth spent a good ammount of money on players and they never done the buissesness.All i am trying to say is that replacing to many players at once has its risks as the two mentioned teams are finding out .............. :city: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 If we had changed the playing staff en mass as some on here were suggesting we could be in the same plight as the blue few. Who no matter how you dress it up are shocking at the moment. Leicester at a higher level have brought in shed loads of players and are not exactly setting the world alight are they.I am not saying that in the future all these players may click and they may play well, but the risk is that they may not and then what happens. I can imagine this forum imploding if Kieth spent a good ammount of money on players and they never done the buissesness.All i am trying to say is that replacing to many players at once has its risks as the two mentioned teams are finding out .............. Re-building any team has to be done gradually and changing everything overnight, including the manager doesn't guarantee success as the two examples show, but one thing you can guarantee is that whatever Keef does or doesn't do certain posters will find something to be critical about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Jez Robbo, I can never tell if you're being serious or not. If you are, rewind two years ago when GJ couldn't fart without you having a pop at him. Your defence of KM at every turn is every bit as boring as the attacks on GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Re-building any team has to be done gradually and changing everything overnight, including the manager doesn't guarantee success as the two examples show, but one thing you can guarantee is that whatever Keef does or doesn't do certain posters will find something to be critical about. This is the problem Millen may have. How many are out of contract at the end of th season? 12 isn't it? I really do not know who is out of contract apart from the obvious. But if many are first team regulars, and they all decide to walk away from the club Keith could have a massive problem on his hands. Any rebuild is difficult, but a rebuild in what is one of the most competative leagues in the world is a thankless task. Does anyone have a list of all the out of contract players this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 its great that 12 are out of contract but the problem that leaves us with is recurtment All things point to keef being unable to attract players there is a list as long as my arm that you keep bringing up of players turning us down, its no good rebuilding if you can't attract players better then the ones leaving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 its great that 12 are out of contract but the problem that leaves us with is recurtment All things point to keef being unable to attract players there is a list as long as my arm that you keep bringing up of players turning us down, its no good rebuilding if you can't attract players better then the ones leaving Very true. It will be interesting who leaves. The big wish by many people is that we dump a load of players, this could really hurt us if the replacements are not up to the task. However much we may like or dislike current players, they all have experience at this level. If the replacements don't there will have to be a learning curve, can or will we cope with that in the Championship? I only mention replacements not having experience at this level due to our failure of attacting players from a higher or same level on permenant transfers. I like Millen, but his pulling power to attract a player is not great. Coppell could attract players because of his name, as James alluded to. I think We could struggle even more next season unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Very true. It will be interesting who leaves. The big wish by many people is that we dump a load of players, this could really hurt us if the replacements are not up to the task. However much we may like or dislike current players, they all have experience at this level. If the replacements don't there will have to be a learning curve, can or will we cope with that in the Championship? I only mention replacements not having experience at this level due to our failure of attacting players from a higher or same level on permenant transfers. I like Millen, but his pulling power to attract a player is not great. Coppell could attract players because of his name, as James alluded to. I think We could struggle even more next season unfortunately. its all if's and buts though, far to early to call, We need to wait to see how this year pans out if we start playing football instead of hoofball we'll become more attractive again if we continue to play millen style football then we'll become less attractive, players like playing in a footballing side, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 its great that 12 are out of contract but the problem that leaves us with is recurtment All things point to keef being unable to attract players there is a list as long as my arm that you keep bringing up of players turning us down, its no good rebuilding if you can't attract players better then the ones leaving Do they? Its true that 5 summer targets all chose not to join City but when you look at why its obvious that it was nothing to do with Millen. 3 joined PL clubs, one signed for a manager he knows well having played under him before and the other one opted to sign a new deal at his current club. Care to name the others on your list ' as long as your arm?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Do they? Its true that 5 summer targets all chose not to join City but when you look at why its obvious that it was nothing to do with Millen. 3 joined PL clubs, one signed for a manager he knows well having played under him before and the other one opted to sign a new deal at his current club. Care to name the others on your list ' as long as your arm?' Thinking back a couple of years our "team", responsible for selling BCFC to players we were trying to sign, was Gary Johnson and Steve Lansdown. That team is now Keith Millen and Colin Sexstone, and while I'm not saying that they are not capable of doing that job, I just don't see them having the same impact as GJ/SLwould have done when a player is weighing up the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Do they? Its true that 5 summer targets all chose not to join City but when you look at why its obvious that it was nothing to do with Millen. 3 joined PL clubs, one signed for a manager he knows well having played under him before and the other one opted to sign a new deal at his current club. Care to name the others on your list ' as long as your arm?' I have short arms robbo, as I said in the follow up post that you chose to ignore so you can get on your high horse again, Its too early to tell If only you gave Johnson as much time as you do with teflon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Very true. It will be interesting who leaves. The big wish by many people is that we dump a load of players, this could really hurt us if the replacements are not up to the task. However much we may like or dislike current players, they all have experience at this level. If the replacements don't there will have to be a learning curve, can or will we cope with that in the Championship? I only mention replacements not having experience at this level due to our failure of attacting players from a higher or same level on permenant transfers. I like Millen, but his pulling power to attract a player is not great. Coppell could attract players because of his name, as James alluded to. I think We could struggle even more next season unfortunately. Its something like 15-20 players out of contract next summer. But you are doing Millen and the coaching staff a disservice if you think that the axe will fall on all of them Obviously the players that Keef wants to keep will be offered new deals well before the summer. Most of them will sign if this summers lack of interest from other clubs is anything to go by. The bonus about so many players being out of contract is that Keef can considerably reduce the oversize squad and therefore the wage bill, and develop a smaller squad with quality rather than quantity. By the start of next season, the likes of Bolasie and Taylor will have a season's experience of life at City and will have developed into better players. I'm sure both will become regular first team squad players. Reid will also have another years development and experience and he'll be there or thereabouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Thinking back a couple of years our "team", responsible for selling BCFC to players we were trying to sign, was Gary Johnson and Steve Lansdown. That team is now Keith Millen and Colin Sexstone, and while I'm not saying that they are not capable of doing that job, I just don't see them having the same impact as GJ/SLwould have done when a player is weighing up the club. You point is invalid considering that many players wouldn't play for Johnson.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 its all if's and buts though, far to early to call, We need to wait to see how this year pans out if we start playing football instead of hoofball we'll become more attractive again if we continue to play millen style football then we'll become less attractive, players like playing in a footballing side, Going around in circles again. Do you ever take on board what other posts are saying? Its been said before that Millen doesn't have the resources to play attractive football largely because of the dodgy defence. Why do you suppose he plays both Elliot and Skuse? You make it sound as if Millen prefers to play 4-5-1. Fact is he has no other option given the players at his disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Its something like 15-20 players out of contract next summer. But you are doing Millen and the coaching staff a disservice if you think that the axe will fall on all of them Obviously the players that Keef wants to keep will be offered new deals well before the summer. Most of them will sign if this summers lack of interest from other clubs is anything to go by. The bonus about so many players being out of contract is that Keef can considerably reduce the oversize squad and therefore the wage bill, and develop a smaller squad with quality rather than quantity. By the start of next season, the likes of Bolasie and Taylor will have a season's experience of life at City and will have developed into better players. I'm sure both will become regular first team squad players. Reid will also have another years development and experience and he'll be there or thereabouts. Like maynard was tied up? I think you may hope the players Keith wants to keep sign. No guarantee when they are out of contract, it makes the whole proposition of signing them much better for other clubs. This is where your argument of moving players on this year falls short. We would have wanted a fee for many. Next summer, no fee and the player can move on without the clubs consent. I don't think the rosey picture you paint is all together what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 You point is invalid considering that many players wouldn't play for Johnson.. That's a different issue RR, as those players were already at the club when they "refused" to play for him. To be here in the first place, someone must have been sucessful in selling the club to that player when they were considering the club as an option, and for the majority of those players that man was Gary Johnson. What this thread is discussing is being able to get players to sign for us in the first place. How many of us have been "sold" a job opportunity by the person interviewing us only to discover that the job was nothing like the one sold to us, or the person we were working for turned out to be a completely different person in the working environment? Hartley was "sold" the club by the same man he fell out with big time by the end. Keith Millen might well be a very good manager to work for, but if he cannot convince the right players to join the club in the first place then that becomes academic. Unfortunately Keith has no track record to speak of, did not have an illustious playing career and appears to have little charisma and comes across as slightly one dimensional. That might not matter so much on the training ground or in the dressing rioom, but it does matter when a player has to make a decision about which of perhaps 2/3 clubs to chose. Given that money on offer is probably the same in each case, and the clubs cannot change their respective league positions at the time, the face to face meeting with manager and/or chairman could be the make or break factor. Would Keith Millen inspire a player to join BCFC over other options or do we have to pay over the odds to compensate for the club's weaknesses in other areas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Going around in circles again. Do you ever take on board what other posts are saying? Its been said before that Millen doesn't have the resources to play attractive football largely because of the dodgy defence. Why do you suppose he plays both Elliot and Skuse? You make it sound as if Millen prefers to play 4-5-1. Fact is he has no other option given the players at his disposal. thats funny only last season you were praiseing millen for the attractive football he plays (the majority of us could see the hoofball) now he doesn't have the resources? Yet another excause from you robbo, Millen has better attacking resources then alot of clubs in this league He has kilkenny adomah JCR Maynard Pitman Stead he's got attacking full backs in riberio and edwards he's got box to box midfielder in Elliot he's got attacking wingers in balsie and woolford He has the resources Robbo he has better resources then our previous managers but he can only employ negitive tactics He plays both elliot and skuse because skuse is a golden child and is undropable if he wants to play two defensive midfielders he should be playing cisse who can break up the play far better Sorry your excuses for millen and his negitive football are getting pretty thin now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 thats funny only last season you were praiseing millen for the attractive football he plays (the majority of us could see the hoofball) now he doesn't have the resources? Yet another excause from you robbo, Millen has better attacking resources then alot of clubs in this league He has kilkenny adomah JCR Maynard Pitman Stead he's got attacking full backs in riberio and edwards he's got box to box midfielder in Elliot he's got attacking wingers in balsie and woolford He has the resources Robbo he has better resources then our previous managers but he can only employ negitive tactics He plays both elliot and skuse because skuse is a golden child and is undropable if he wants to play two defensive midfielders he should be playing cisse who can break up the play far better Sorry your excuses for millen and his negitive football are getting pretty thin now You have overlooked ( accidentally I'm sure ) the long standing problem of a dodgy defence. That's where the 'negative' tactics (as you put it ) stem from. Play anything other than 4-5-1 and the defence gets exposed too often. The new bloke McGivern might make a difference. He has to be better than McAllister and coming from a club where hoofball is virtually outlawed could turn out to be a great loan deal. We are not going to agree on who had the better resources but Johnson served up almost two season's of dreary crap when he had the options to be more attacking. Imo Keef doesn't have the same options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glynriley Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 You have overlooked ( accidentally I'm sure ) the long standing problem of a dodgy defence. That's where the 'negative' tactics (as you put it ) stem from. Play anything other than 4-5-1 and the defence gets exposed too often. The new bloke McGivern might make a difference. He has to be better than McAllister and coming from a club where hoofball is virtually outlawed could turn out to be a great loan deal. We are not going to agree on who had the better resources but Johnson served up almost two season's of dreary crap when he had the options to be more attacking. Imo Keef doesn't have the same options. When KM took over from Gary Johnson as caretaker , the first thing he did was switch the formation to 3-5-2. He still has the option of playing that formation and it would allow us to have an extra attacker on the pitch. To say he only has the option to play 4-5-1 is wrong. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 If we had changed the playing staff en mass as some on here were suggesting we could be in the same plight as the blue few. Who no matter how you dress it up are shocking at the moment. Leicester at a higher level have brought in shed loads of players and are not exactly setting the world alight are they.I am not saying that in the future all these players may click and they may play well, but the risk is that they may not and then what happens. I can imagine this forum imploding if Kieth spent a good ammount of money on players and they never done the buissesness.All i am trying to say is that replacing to many players at once has its risks as the two mentioned teams are finding out .............. :city: Sorry, who suggested bringing in a shed load of players?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 But replacing lots of players at the same time is exactly what we are going to do Leaving it until the end of the season to sort out contracts and renew those who are staying will be madness and replacing those first teamers ( or at least signing cover for these places) including GK, RB, LB, CB, Striker, CM? is going to be have to be done in Jan and next summer by whomever is in charge or else it will be exactly like those teams that have signed multiple players over the summer.. That people are only concerned with getting the high wages off the playing staff on one hand and seeing what we have got to work with afterwards worries me someone as it would potentially mean we have to sign 11 in the summer just to stand still. The replacement of 6 first teamers is a priority and with only 1 maybe 2 likely to resign its a much bigger job than just cutting the slack as people want, If we dont make any signings in Jan or contract offers for those we want to keep ( Fonts, Wilson?) Then expect us to be bedding in at least 10 over the summer and yet again, loading the team full of excuses for relative failure because they have to gel. Long term planning means we should get this sorted now and offer those we want to keep contracts and be getting in contact with players we want to sign over the summer in Jan if they are out of contract in the summer or its going to be snafu at city as per usual Give the club some credit, despite what many fans ( who could all do a better job of course) think, they are professional blokes and know how to run a football club better than we do. Its been made public that Fontaine is/will be in talks with the club about a contract extension. If he's being talked to then you can bet that he won't be the only one. Millen will know what players he wants to keep and will no doubt have chatted with Sexstone and given him a list to that effect. Millen will also have a list of potential targets ready for the January window and handed over that list as well. Its an ongoing process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 When KM took over from Gary Johnson as caretaker , the first thing he did was switch the formation to 3-5-2. He still has the option of playing that formation and it would allow us to have an extra attacker on the pitch. To say he only has the option to play 4-5-1 is wrong. IMO. I don't disagree with you. In fact I suggested 3-5-2 as an alternative in another thread but as all formations do 3-5-2 has obvious flaws. Can you see Albert as a wing back, or do you leave him out? and that's only one conundrum. The defence is already dodgy and to potentially give it less protection by changing formation is another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Do they? Its true that 5 summer targets all chose not to join City but when you look at why its obvious that it was nothing to do with Millen. 3 joined PL clubs, one signed for a manager he knows well having played under him before and the other one opted to sign a new deal at his current club. Care to name the others on your list ' as long as your arm?' If they were all turning us down, then you would have to question the level of players he was looking to bring in. It's a positive that the manager is looking at that level of player, but most seemed unrealistic and pursuing these type of players could be construed as bad judgement/management - because in the mean time, very decent and more realistic players probabaly went elsewhere. I would also hope that he had more than 5 summer targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Give the club some credit, despite what many fans ( who could all do a better job of course) think, You really are on a wind up today, aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Sorry, who suggested bringing in a shed load of players?! I would imagine it's aimed at the kneejerk posters.After the Gas won a couple games there were posts on here stating that Buckle bringing in 15 players was the correct way to do things. Posters who had had made up there minds that the Gas would run away with League 2, pretty sure some even said those words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 I cant have blind faith as you seem to in a club/board/management that has messed up transfers for as long as I can remember Only this season we have had, we want to get our business done early, we didnt. We want to get priority positions sorted, we didnt. A team that passed on one player, and then signed him anyway, when no one else was available. A team that also bid on another striker according to the notes posted on here, despite not needing one at the time and so on. And now we are expected to have faith in a team offering a new contract to a player it was prepared to sell quite happily 2 weeks ago? Its an utter mess and a continuation of the status quo. Excuse me if I doubt the clubs ability to get this one right. The only saving grace is that some of the perm deals that failed on transfer day, maybe resurrected in terms of loans to permanent, but seeing as I have no idea who these players are and what position they are in. I could only comment if they join and how they play. In the interim though, there isnt much to trust to say that the club know what they are doing This time last season I would have 100% agreed with this post but I reckon things have moved on in the last 12 months. Just before Sexstone took over as Chairman he did an interview when he alluded to error's being made regarding loans and signing new players in the past, error's that had cost the club a lot of wasted money. He mentioned 'due diligence' as being missing in the past but from here on in greater care would be taken over new players. Essentially he was saying that the club will be more thorough when checking out potential signings, rather than blindly trusting the managers judgement in order to avoid situations with players like Styvar and Hunt. It was good that he acknowledged the past mistakes and was determined to learn from them. That has to be a forward step and yet some fans still have no faith in the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 You really are on a wind up today, aren't you? He is most days, and has a tendency to highjack threads and make turn them into Arguments by being a hypocrite. Ive said it before, so many of us, including me....bite. Ah well, roll on the Brighton game, and a 7-0 win for the City..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 He is most days, and has a tendency to highjack threads and make turn them into Arguments by being a hypocrite. Rather that attack the poster with a reply that brings nothing to thread, why don't you either a) ignore the thread b) Post something reasoned and constructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 This time last season I would have 100% agreed with this post but I reckon things have moved on in the last 12 months. Just before Sexstone took over as Chairman he did an interview when he alluded to error's being made regarding loans and signing new players in the past, error's that had cost the club a lot of wasted money. He mentioned 'due diligence' as being missing in the past but from here on in greater care would be taken over new players. Essentially he was saying that the club will be more thorough when checking out potential signings, rather than blindly trusting the managers judgement in order to avoid situations with players like Styvar and Hunt. It was good that he acknowledged the past mistakes and was determined to learn from them. That has to be a forward step and yet some fans still have no faith in the club. I find this quite amusing, you say about the interview they gave, and the errors they made. And then they just went ahead and copied all their previous erros again... as if they never happened. This board, and most boards I can remember in my lifetime of watching city has been a absolute mess, and so it continues. All these things about getting players in early, have our targets etc etc were made after said interview you talk about. It is just all hot air as usual to sell season tickets to the gulliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Rather that attack the poster with a reply that brings nothing to thread, why don't you either a) ignore the thread b) Post something reasoned and constructive. Andy was replying to my comment in the thread, I think that makes it valid? I really can't be arsed to read any more of this thread, and I really do admire your willingness to back KM at every turn after the way you treated GJ, but you really do talk some complete and utter bollocks at times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
123456789000 Posted September 7, 2011 Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Andy was replying to my comment in the thread, I think that makes it valid? I really can't be arsed to read any more of this thread, and I really do admire your willingness to back KM at every turn after the way you treated GJ, but you really do talk some complete and utter bollocks at times That's good, because whilst Robbo's posts have been thought through and have been backed up with facts and opinions, your posts have simply been attacks on him. Come back when you've got something relevant to say. I do think a lot of the fans on here assume that the club is doing nothing as we speak, and just waiting until the summer before they realise they're in trouble. Contract talks will be ongoing at the moment as will a list of replacements. I do agree with (I think it was Riaz) who said that whilst its good to be going after high profile signings, they do also need to be realistic. Its no good going for Gerrard and then coming away saying we were unlucky that he signed a new deal with Liverpool. There will be improvements on our squad out there who have been overlooked because we've been punching above our weight. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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