rockinredrobin Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Before Saturday I wasnt in the Sack The Manager Camp and I'm still not really - although I do have a big issue with Keith's faith in Marvin Elliott who I see more and more as a runner who rarely positively influences the game and who ( on performance ) deserved to be subbed more than JCR or Skuse on Saturday. I truly believe that if we continue putting out starting XI's with both Skuse and Elliott we will not have enough guile and craft to win games - and it doesnt help that Kilkenny is not different enough from the pair of them to make a difference. But my biggest issue on Saturday was Jon Stead coming on - I thought in theory to support Maynard , but my eyes told me he played left wing and left back !! If that was under instruction from Keith then I am at a loss. Anyway - I think I have added these stats up correctly from Keith's 60 games in charge ( 9 when GJ left , all last season except Millwall first game and the 6 league games of this season ) - I get : Played 60 Won 23 Drawn 14 Lost 23 Goals for 80 Goals against 82 Win Rate 38.3% Points per game 1.38 ..if this average continues over a 46 game league season we would end up with approx 64 points which last season would have seen us finish 12th , 11 points off the play-offs So whats the message - I dont know ? - but I do know ( right now ) i'd settle for a 12th place finish !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbcfc Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 You can prove anything with statistics 74% of people know that. The issue reaches far beyond the win ratio, 4 games no goals bearly a handful of chances created, negative tactics, lack of leadership on and off the pitch, signings who can't get into the first team then moaning we've no money to bring in players for problem areas. The attendences dropping should have alarm bells ringing in the board room, Millen is doing nothing to entice fans through the gates. We aren't quite in real trouble yet but it appears to only a matter of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 the trend! look at the trend!! 100% of Taxi for Rennie says "sack him". This is an overwhelming statistic, with which no-one can argue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Wiki doesnt agree with that see here wef 10th Sept 2011 Played 53 Won 18 Drawn 11 Lost 24 Goals For 66 Goals Against 75 Win Ratio 33.96% Points per game 1.22 If that was to carry on it would get us 56 points or there abouts, using the culmative record as a whole. and would see us finish around 18th as per last season This season extrapolated Played 6 Won 1 Drawn 2 Lost 3 Goals For 4 Goals Against 9 Win Ratio 16.66% Points per game 0.83 On this seasons stats we would be looking at a 38 point finish and finish dead last (all those last season went down on 42) and be relegated That doesn't include his stint as caretaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Er, why should it? He wasnt the contracted manager then, just caretaker for Coppell. The stats when he has been in full charge on a permanent contract as manager are what matters surely? I was merely pointing out that is why wiki's stats are different to the previous poster's. To ignore his caretaker reign would be foolish but likewise it has to be noted that his record as manager is far lower when you consider the points per game average. Although further still as others have said stats do not read provide full picture nor do they take into account any special circumstances that may have been present. They should play a part in your analysis of Millen but far less a part than your own opinion based on what you have witnessed over the past 12-15 months...in my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireman Sam Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Before Saturday I wasnt in the Sack The Manager Camp and I'm still not really - although I do have a big issue with Keith's faith in Marvin Elliott who I see more and more as a runner who rarely positively influences the game and who ( on performance ) deserved to be subbed more than JCR or Skuse on Saturday. I truly believe that if we continue putting out starting XI's with both Skuse and Elliott we will not have enough guile and craft to win games - and it doesnt help that Kilkenny is not different enough from the pair of them to make a difference. But my biggest issue on Saturday was Jon Stead coming on - I thought in theory to support Maynard , but my eyes told me he played left wing and left back !! If that was under instruction from Keith then I am at a loss. Anyway - I think I have added these stats up correctly from Keith's 60 games in charge ( 9 when GJ left , all last season except Millwall first game and the 6 league games of this season ) - I get : Played 60 Won 23 Drawn 14 Lost 23 Goals for 80 Goals against 82 Win Rate 38.3% Points per game 1.38 ..if this average continues over a 46 game league season we would end up with approx 64 points which last season would have seen us finish 12th , 11 points off the play-offs So whats the message - I dont know ? - but I do know ( right now ) i'd settle for a 12th place finish !!! Caulkers gone Weak players like Woodford playing (Relegation) He has had his honeymoon period And it IS HIS TEAM NOW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I was merely pointing out that is why wiki's stats are different to the previous poster's. Fair does To ignore his caretaker reign would be foolish Why? It was 18 months or so ago end of the 2009/10 season. Since then he has managed as manager most of the 2010/11 season and now into the 2011/12 season. Why should a period which has no relevance to where we are now be covered? Hence the inclusion of this seasons stats on their own. Although further still as others have said stats do not read provide full picture nor do they take into account any special circumstances that may have been present. What special circumstances? He is the clubs manager and has been full time in post for over a season now. Those statistics are relative to his time in that position. Any problems or special circumstances have to be faced by many other managers at other clubs. Im not sure what you are getting at regards to this as it appears superficially that his record is trying to be excused because of mitigating factors as if no one else has the same issues to deal with? They should play a part in your analysis of Millen but far less a part than your own opinion based on what you have witnessed over the past 12-15 months...in my opinion of course. What opinion? They are the stats afaik. Its a black and white issue. Those are the games he has been in charge of as manager, not caretaker. They are the results and win ratios and percentages. This seasons are the most pertinent. in terms of those statistics given.. You're not understanding what I'm saying. I haven't given my opinion on Millen I'm saying that stats do not present the whole picture and it is better to draw a conclusion from what you have seen/experienced, whatever that conclusion may be. Now I'll give my opinion. You suggest results from previous seasons do not matter but of course they do. Giving the stats from this season is well and good but you could do the same for Reading and on that basis McDermott should also go. Whilst Millen clearly did inherit a hard situation following the Coppell debacle and this in my opinion meant he deserved more credit for last season than a 15th place position may initially suggest I agree that it can no longer be used in his defence. He has had his pre-season and what is the most disappointing aspect for me is that he has been so negative with his tactics as this has not always been the case. His signings this summer have been suspect to say the least whilst the stand out performer in pre-season, young Bobby Reid, has not even made the bench yet let alone featured. Millen spent all summer banging on about how defence was the problem and we needed centre-halves when in fact we look fairly solid there, we just can't score a f ** king goal! I don't think Millen will be sacked for a while and I still believe sacking him now would be wrong, whilst a lack of suitable replacements is not really a good enough reason to keep Millen employed it must be considered, as must the club's financial position. (Although given the way we handled the Maynard situation you'd imagine we had zero money problems!) It has been a desperately disappointing start to the season and as I posted yesterday there is absolutely nothing about this football club that can inspire or excite at the moment. It really is very disheartening. On a sidenote, I'm assuming you'd like to see Millen replaced? If so by who and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Er, whut? How can I be any clearer. They were stats to compliment/expand on the OP's post. They are black and white figures. There seems to be some need to justify whether Im in the pro or anti Millen camp to assess their legitimacy. I havent missed anything to my knowledge, however there appears intent on causing further discord when there is no need. Simply, the facts based on Millen as manager not caretaker, suggest just above relegation on his overall stats and relegated on this seasons stats thus far. What is there else to discuss? So you're not going to give your opinion? Well what a cracking discussion this has been... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I already have on the zillion other threads to do with Millen should he stay or should he go.. Another thread along the same lines really isnt going to do anything is it? I just want to clarify the situation. So to conclude there was no point in you ever engaging me as you were never going to give your opinion but merely post this season's stats from the whole six games we've played? Goodie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I just want to clarify the situation. So to conclude there was no point in you ever engaging me as you were never going to give your opinion but merely post this season's stats from the whole six games we've played? Goodie. To be fair to RMLF, the thread is called 'Keith's Vital Statistics'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellRedPhil Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 To be fair to RMLF, the thread is called 'Keith's Vital Statistics'... Quoting the stats for the six games and then not giving an opinion is surely pointless though? There was never any point in engaging this debate otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Quoting the stats for the six games and then not giving an opinion is surely pointless though? There was never any point in engaging this debate otherwise! I agree with what you are saying to a degree. My point is that RMLF didn't engage the debate, he was merely supplying extra info. Anyway, I'll butt out and let you two get on with it. Edit: Millen Out is my opinion, by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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