cheese Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 As the attacks of 9/11 were not the first to be carried out by Al-Qaeda against US intrests I suspect that Bin Laden probably didn't need instructions from anyone to carry out more. I think this would be more believable if the targets had been US intrests in and around the Middle East and Africa. Obviously, I dont know anymore than anyone else. I do believe though that its far more likely that this whole thing was devised and carried out by a reasonably well organised fanatical group of terrorists with a history of violent acts against a Western power they despise. Terrorists have tried to bring down the WTC with bombs before and they failed, so they decided to use planes...It just seems logical compared to any other theories I have heard. Still, if we all believed the same thing then life would be pretty dull. Very intresting thread! Yes it is - and we're also on page 3 and haven't descended into calling each other names yet. Come on buck-up people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 As the attacks of 9/11 were not the first to be carried out by Al-Qaeda against US intrests I suspect that Bin Laden probably didn't need instructions from anyone to carry out more. I think this would be more believable if the targets had been US intrests in and around the Middle East and Africa. Obviously, I dont know anymore than anyone else. I do believe though that its far more likely that this whole thing was devised and carried out by a reasonably well organised fanatical group of terrorists with a history of violent acts against a Western power they despise. Terrorists have tried to bring down the WTC with bombs before and they failed, so they decided to use planes...It just seems logical compared to any other theories I have heard. Still, if we all believed the same thing then life would be pretty dull. Very intresting thread! Had you heard of Al-Qaeda before 9/11? Some believe they were made up by the US...... and they are only still going today, because crazy islamists start their own "branches" Interesting indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northampton Red Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Despite the mystery surrounding Building 7, I think there is a massive hole in any conspiracy argument. If the US Government went to the trouble of recruiting hijackers, flying 2 planes into the WTC and killing hundreds, why then would they be so against hijacking 2 further planes and flying them into the Pentagon and another high profile target? Why fire a missle into the Pentagon if you've flown planes into the WTC? It doesn't make sense. All these conspiracies about paying off the passengers and switching them etc...Why bother if you are murdering hundreds of other US Citizens and Military personnel? If there was any conspiracy,surely it would have just been that the US government recruited their own hijackers and flew those planes into their targets. I also think a lot of these conspiracy theories have a political agenda attached to them, anti-Americanism in Europe and anti-Government in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonL Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 For those that think that the US would not do anything to harm its own citizens to start a war, check this out! http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/northwoods.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Nobody has answered my question about the London attacks...... What that they were staged ? Most likely not, however we are in a far better position to stage these sort of attacks then the US govt is. The way in which US military oversight works makes a conspiracy on this scale almost impossible, (not necessarily to carry out, but to keep secret) too many people would have to know, the US military and intelligence agencies struggle to keep anything secret, the black ops run during the Vietnam War in Laos and Cambodia are almost common knowledge these days, the highly likely involvement of SAS and SBS troops in the same place is much more difficult to even think about as there is only annecdotal evidence at best and the odd comment made by old boys from both regiments, that even then doesn't go anywhere to making it impossible to prove. When considering conspiracy theories the first thing that you have to consider is motive and the potential gain to be made. If the CIA were going to engineer a route into the middle east, this one makes no sense, destroy the WTC, instantly wiping hundreds of Billions of dollars off the US economy, and in the more long term loosing tens of billions more out of the economy from the aviation industry as since then Airbus has begin dominating Boeing in the aviation market loosing the US economy even more money. Had the iraq war gone perfectly to plan and the US and allies had secured the oil, it still wouldn't have come close to recouping the money they would have known they would have lost through the WTC attacks. The same effect could have been achieved by striking targets which would have caused far less civilian casualties and just as high profile, hit the Pentagon as did happen, hit some old and unimportant part of Langley and an old and uninteresting military base and they could have easily still made the case for going into the middle east, without having to kill 3,000 of their own civillians. The case of flight 93 is more difficult, it could well have been shot down, just as easily as it could have been brought down by the passengers, there was only one place left that it was headed and for the Americans it doesn't bear thinking about, either way i don't think any action taken would have been unjustified, you are the US govt, you already know that the WTC and pentagon has been hit and there is one plane out there heading for the most high value symbolically of all the targets, the white house, i'd authorise the military to shoot that plane down in an instant. Equally you have a load of passengers on board who know they have been hijacked, so airplane rules on Mobile phones are most likely being ignored so news will begin to filter through of what is going on. Under normal circumstances when a plane gets hijacked you just end up sat on a runway being held hostage, but they will have known about teh WTC at least, so they knew they were going to die anyway so why not try and take the plane back, they might get lucky and get out alive, but once the acceptance of already being dead sinks in, the passengers have nothing to loose. I've seen many of the arguments by people about the attacks and many of them are decent arguments, but i still cant get beyond the initial fact that, Millitarily, Politically and economically it makes absolutely no sense to either carry out or allow the 9/11 attacks to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Had you heard of Al-Qaeda before 9/11? Some believe they were made up by the US...... and they are only still going today, because crazy islamists start their own "branches" Interesting indeed. I hadn't heard of Al-Qaeda but I had heard of Osama Bin Laden who I believe was already on the list of 'America's Most Wanted' by 2001. Like I said previously Im not convinced that figures within the US Government would encourage a terrorist attack on their own doorstep. Its just too risky, imagine the implications for anyone involved if the truth was discovered. As another poster pointed out (Red Robbo I think) surely Al-Qaeda, an organisation big on propaganda, would benefit more by 'outing' the US Government instead of just acting on their instructions. The attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon made the USA look weak and vulnerable, something that I doubt any Administration would be over the moon about. If they were prepared to give Bin Laden the go ahead for attacks then I wouldve thought that it would make more sense if the targets were, say, US Embassy's overseas. Surely this would still constitute an act of war and give the US justification to invade Afghanistan on the premise that the Taliban were harbouring terrorist organisations. What I will say though Riaz, it wouldnt surprise me if the US knew where Bin Laden was before 9/11 but chose not to arrest him on the basis that they may have thought that at some point in the future he could be of benefit to them. Obviously thats pretty dumb of them if true yet that I can believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 For those that think that the US would not do anything to harm its own citizens to start a war, check this out! http://whatreallyhap...northwoods.html The problem with this as an example is that Operation Northwoods (which suggested staging FAKE not real terrorists attacks within the US. Sinking UNMANNED boats etc) was rejected and not acted upon. The US didn't need to mass-murder its people to 'justify a war against terror'. It already had suffered attacks on its embassies in Kenya, Tanzania and elsewhere and an attempt to bomb the WTC in 1993. What precisely are the benefits accrued from invading Afghanistan anyway? Although the Korean War provided a vital fillip for the US economy, since 2001 the US has been in the economic doldrums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 Liverpool have every right to dicipline him. Ecclestone's Twitter page headed up as: Official Twitter Page of Nathan Eccleston Professional Footballer For Liverpool fc He should remove Liverpool from his profile then he can say what he likes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 The Pentagon is the World's largest building and its CCTV is pointed quite logically at the gates contolling access and the fences - not at a random wall. CCTV from a fence cam showing the plane on its approach - taking out lamp-posts etc was released and you can see the impact in the peripheral vision. The hole is consistent with a plane fuselage and several tonnes of aircraft wreckage, including the engines and the black box, were recovered and the bodies of the crew and passengers from Flight 77 were found in the building and identified by DNA. Seems fairly straightforward to me and - again - if it was all a conspiracy and the building was hit by a missile, where did Flight 77 and its passengers go? And why wouldn't the conspirators have just said "Terrorists have fired a missile at the Pentagon"?? Haven't watched that DVD in years but it said they took CCTV from an adjacent petrol station? And what happened to the wings? Did they disintergrate before it hit the wall? I dont really care tbh, all I know is that that part of the film stayed with me. Evidently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted September 16, 2011 Report Share Posted September 16, 2011 The military - concerned about security - did drag their feet about releasing their footage, but eventually relented in an attempt to dampen conspiracy theories. As for the wings, yep, they'd have disintegrated when the plane hit the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted September 17, 2011 Report Share Posted September 17, 2011 i do think that it was Al Queda's doing without US Government help. however, the administration at the time (and still today) did not help hinder the conspiracy theories. A helicopter in new zealand probably cannot take off without the Pentagon noticing. So why can't they show any footage (albeit one security cam and a local hotel CCTV which show nothing) of the crash. It is the most protected / secure building in the world. What about internal CCTV and not just outside. This will go on for ages. Much like the JFK assassination files that have not been destroyed. Nobody will ever see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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