Nathan Eccleston ...

[InCider]

I know this isn't City related, but thought this story was quite interesting ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14914280.stm

I know many clubs don't want players tweeting, but was just wondering if players are entitled to have their own opinions. Whilst these comments may be seen as insensitive to families mourning victims and also untrue, surely if Nathan Eccleston believes this to be the case, he is entitled to share his opinion. Afterall, almost a third of Americans also share this view point, at least according to some sources. I'm sure Liverpool will take disciplinary action, as they will believe that PR damage could be done, but should they? I'm not keen on Twitter myself, as I don't particularly need to know what Stephen Fry is having for breakfast, but are clubs right in censoring any non-football related comments?

I would be very interested in what people make of this. Surely, freedom of speech also applies to footballers?

[Frank Reynolds]

I do love these conspiracy theories.

Instead of disciplining him/fining him they should send him to the US to speak to some experts. Social networking is a pain in the arse for football clubs.

[glynriley]

I know this isn't City related, but thought this story was quite interesting ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/14914280.stm

I know many clubs don't want players tweeting, but was just wondering if players are entitled to have their own opinions. Whilst these comments may be seen as insensitive to families mourning victims and also untrue, surely if Nathan Eccleston believes this to be the case, he is entitled to share his opinion. Afterall, almost a third of Americans also share this view point, at least according to some sources. I'm sure Liverpool will take disciplinary action, as they will believe that PR damage could be done, but should they? I'm not keen on Twitter myself, as I don't particularly need to know what Stephen Fry is having for breakfast, but are clubs right in censoring any non-football related comments?

I would be very interested in what people make of this. Surely, freedom of speech also applies to footballers?

I read that article earlier and did wonder if the club would have reacted in the same way if they did not have American owners. I'm with you on the twitter thing , I'm not interested but plenty are and freedom of expression is one of the things that needs to be upheld. In my opinion Liverpool should release a statement along the lines of "these are the views of the author and not the club" and leave it at that.

[Nibor]

It's none of the club's business. Only the guy who posted it is likely to suffer reputation damage.

[Tim S]

Every player in the country will have a part in their contract that says they cannot discuss matters concerning the football club he is contracted to over any form or social media. However unless the club puts in a players contract that they cant use Social Networking sites such as Twitter or Facebook to express personal opinion on matters outside of the club then I dont see how the player has done much wrong. Surely that is his own choice to say what he likes and there for cant be disciplined for expressing his own opinion.

If someone at the club thought what he said might have been out of order, then surely its just a case of a quiet word in his ear just to make him aware that what he says could be viewed as controversial and to be a bit more careful about what he posts in the future.

Personally, as much as I dont really buy into most conspiracy theories I dont have a problem with anyone who wishes to look into them or believe them.

[Frank Reynolds]

It's none of the club's business. Only the guy who posted it is likely to suffer reputation damage.

The Scousers do love a good boycott though!

[cheese]

Just makes him look like a knob tbh.

[Tim S]

The funny thing is that anything that happens all over the world is always going to have a cloud of conspiracy around it - especially if the American government is involved! But people seem to read too much into things.

With regards to 9/11.....

Ive seen all the conspiracy theory programmes, they actually interest me quite a lot but purely to see just how people come up with some of their crazy theories. Some of them do seem to carry quite a bit of weight, but overall the evidence against a conspiracy is far greater than the evidence for a conspiracy.

Do I think 9/11 was a set up by the Americans to start a war? No

Do I think George W Bush knew more about what was going on that day than we were lead to believe? No

Was Lee Johnson to blame? If some fans on this forum had anything to do with it - then probably!

[InCider]

I read that article earlier and did wonder if the club would have reacted in the same way if they did not have American owners. I'm with you on the twitter thing , I'm not interested but plenty are and freedom of expression is one of the things that needs to be upheld. In my opinion Liverpool should release a statement along the lines of "these are the views of the author and not the club" and leave it at that.

That would have been a fair outcome. I'm not sure what is happening other than the fact they are 'investigating'. Surely, he should be able to say anything he wants, apart from anything illegal like inciting racial hatred, for example. I don't think he's right, if he is suggesting an 'inside job', but he can express that view if he wishes to do so. I'm not sure the timing of his comment was very sensitive either, but that's his problem and not the club's.

[Nibor]

Every player in the country will have a part in their contract that says they cannot discuss matters concerning the football club he is contracted to over any form or social media. However unless the club puts in a players contract that they cant use Social Networking sites such as Twitter or Facebook to express personal opinion on matters outside of the club then I dont see how the player has done much wrong. Surely that is his own choice to say what he likes and there for cant be disciplined for expressing his own opinion.

You can't actually have such a contract, it would be illegal and without a severability clause actually render the whole contract unenforcable.

The Scousers do love a good boycott though!

When it matters I would agree that the club should be concerned if the tweet was about the club or about football (e.g. Torres the other day).

[Mr Popodopolous]

I think he's entitled to his view.

On the general subject, often it is stated it is only nutters or those with an axe to grind who believe it but why would architects question the official version to the extent they have if they don't believe something may be amiss?

Certainly from what I've read, in mainland Europe it was shown on programmes on the day of 9/11 discussing these theories on fairly big channels- Rai in Italy and one or two equivelants in Germany and France.

[Guest deadlyheadleyer]

You should check out the nonsense Bradley Orr was coming out with on twitter during the Riots last month! Apparently they were orchestrated by the Government!

[Tim S]

You should check out the nonsense Bradley Orr was coming out with on twitter during the Riots last month! Apparently they were orchestrated by the Government!

What a load of crap!! The riots were nothing more than little hoodies jumping on the band wagon thinking they could bag themselves a new telly or some new trainers and get away with it as everyone else was doing it. Not one of them would have thought about why they were doing it - it was purely mindless crime for the sake of "being a bwad manz, ya get me blad".

[Mr Popodopolous]

While the conspiracy theories by Messrs Orr and Ecclestone are far fetched, certainly I'm surprised at the apparent trust many on this thread seem to view the Govt with.

I retain a healthy cynicism towards all Institutions (Army, Goverment, police) personally.

[Tim S]

While the conspiracy theories by Messrs Orr and Ecclestone are far fetched, certainly I'm surprised at the apparent trust many on this thread seem to view the Govt with.

I retain a healthy cynicism towards all Institutions (Army, Goverment, police) personally.

While I dont trust the government entirely I do think that stories about 9/11 and the reasons behind the riots to be very far fetched.

The only conspiracy that Ive been told about recently that I kinda believe is the one surrounding Bin Ladens apparent capture and death. It seems convenient that they caught him, killed him and disposed of the body before anyone had even seen the proof - and they are yet to show us proof other than a few hazy photos. I potentially believe that they caught him and are still holding him captive trying to get information out of him.

[Monkeh]

some footballers really need to think before they post,

I'm all for free speech but to post somthing on 9/11 thats going to upset a nation is just plain stupid,

Do it any other time of year and we'd hear nothing about it but on 9/11 gebus.......

[Fodbarmyarmy]

It's the same with the Dianna theories innit tho...

What you got to ask yourself (goes for any conspiracy theory) is who has the most to gain...

In the case of the death of Dianna it was clearly Flower sellers and Elton John! simples...

[screech]

He can have his say it really shouldn't be any concern to the club what he believes. Where they should draw the line is in the Joey Barton case where he was bad mouthing the owners of the football club. That stands to reason why he was offloaded, you or I would be if we slated our company in public.

Anyway I love the 911 twooof movement, the upside down demolition of the twin towers was amazing, the other amazing bit was out of the thousands that would need to be in on a inside job the size of that, not one person has come forward. The months of drilling holes, stripping back columns and inserting tnt into the buildings structure was also missed by the thousands that worked there. The most disturbing stat is that up to a 3rd of Americans actually believe in that shit rather than crazy people hijack planes.

[Monkeh]

He can have his say it really shouldn't be any concern to the club what he believes. Where they should draw the line is in the Joey Barton case where he was bad mouthing the owners of the football club. That stands to reason why he was offloaded, you or I would be if we slated our company in public.

Anyway I love the 911 twooof movement, the upside down demolition of the twin towers was amazing, the other amazing bit was out of the thousands that would need to be in on a inside job the size of that, not one person has come forward. The months of drilling holes, stripping back columns and inserting tnt into the buildings structure was also missed by the thousands that worked there. The most disturbing stat is that up to a 3rd of Americans actually believe in that shit rather than crazy people hijack planes.

most yanks are batshit crazy

[Frank Reynolds]

I live in Croydon, and I'm sure you all saw the footage of Reeves Corner (the furniture shop) burning down.

I'm a bar manager for a well known chain, and I come across a lot of this town's undesirables causing trouble. One such person has been charged with the arson at reeves Corner.

Bradley if you're reading this, I can assure you that this man (if you can call him that) is definitely not a member of the illuminati, a NWO nor is he a Government mule!

Like I said before, I don't believe that Eccleston should be disciplined. But I do think that they should give him some kind of alternative education about it. I know as a football club it's not exactly their usual line of work, but if he had been more high profile it could have been a PR disaster for them! Nothing will come of their 'investigation' but they had to do something!

[Sir Colby-Tit]

Fair play to the lad. He's only saying what a huge number of people believe, including myself.

911 "truthers" are not all "crazy conspiracy theorists".

[Greedo]

While the conspiracy theories by Messrs Orr and Ecclestone are far fetched, certainly I'm surprised at the apparent trust many on this thread seem to view the Govt with.

I retain a healthy cynicism towards all Institutions (Army, Goverment, police) personally.

Exactly. I'm not for one minute saying the the afforementioned conspiracy theories have any truth in them, but do think that at times, we forget how much control the Government has over what we know. It wouldn't take much for them to cover something massive up and not have many people question them.

[WellRedPhil]

If he believes in the Illuminati and N.W.O theories I personally believe he should have the right to express these opinions. He's not done it in an aggressive or derogatory manner as far as I can see.

[Mr Popodopolous]

He can have his say it really shouldn't be any concern to the club what he believes. Where they should draw the line is in the Joey Barton case where he was bad mouthing the owners of the football club. That stands to reason why he was offloaded, you or I would be if we slated our company in public.

Anyway I love the 911 twooof movement, the upside down demolition of the twin towers was amazing, the other amazing bit was out of the thousands that would need to be in on a inside job the size of that, not one person has come forward. The months of drilling holes, stripping back columns and inserting tnt into the buildings structure was also missed by the thousands that worked there. The most disturbing stat is that up to a 3rd of Americans actually believe in that shit rather than crazy people hijack planes.

One or two things. I don't exactly believe in the theory, in fact I'm not entirely sure either way but...

1) How do you explain the lack of plane debris in the field? Planes that usually crash have said debris all over the field. Moreover, local residents near said Pennyslvania field have said that they thought it was brought down by a missile.

2) Why would architechts say this about the buildings- gain for them? Presumably you are an architecht? I am not an architect so unqualified to speak on it, no idea if you are?

3) Firefighters in and around the buildings who survived or died believed they could put it out- the fire was manageable etc. Oddly enough it wasn't.

4) Only three skyscrapers have ever fallen with the speed or scale that occured due to 9/11- they all occured on 9/11. There have been quite big fires in skyscrapers before yet more of them have been left.

5) Project for American Century- the authors said they would need another Pearl Harbor to justify a large incursion into Middle East. This isn't a conspiracy theory, this particular point is on record. Whether it was an inside job or not, likely not but how large a coincidence is it that a few years after the Pearl Harbour point this happened?

Clearly terrorists flew planes into buildings, undoubtedly but there are a few things which could be questioned- why would architects, but more than that firefighters and people near the field of the plane crash in Pennyslvania offer such a different version to certain parts of the official events? They can't all be crazy- can they?

[The Bard]

He can have his say it really shouldn't be any concern to the club what he believes. Where they should draw the line is in the Joey Barton case where he was bad mouthing the owners of the football club. That stands to reason why he was offloaded, you or I would be if we slated our company in public.

Anyway I love the 911 twooof movement, the upside down demolition of the twin towers was amazing, the other amazing bit was out of the thousands that would need to be in on a inside job the size of that, not one person has come forward. The months of drilling holes, stripping back columns and inserting tnt into the buildings structure was also missed by the thousands that worked there. The most disturbing stat is that up to a 3rd of Americans actually believe in that shit rather than crazy people hijack planes.

The same 3rd that deny Darwin's theory of evolution. Now denying this is truly delusional.

[spudski]

What amazes me the most, is that they are aware of the Illuminati and the theory of the New World Order...Fair play to them.

[spudski]

[Sir Colby-Tit]

One or two things. I don't exactly believe in the theory, in fact I'm not entirely sure either way but...

1) How do you explain the lack of plane debris in the field? Planes that usually crash have said debris all over the field. Moreover, local residents near said Pennyslvania field have said that they thought it was brought down by a missile.

2) Why would architechts say this about the buildings- gain for them? Presumably you are an architecht? I am not an architect so unqualified to speak on it, no idea if you are?

3) Firefighters in and around the buildings who survived or died believed they could put it out- the fire was manageable etc. Oddly enough it wasn't.

4) Only three skyscrapers have ever fallen with the speed or scale that occured due to 9/11- they all occured on 9/11. There have been quite big fires in skyscrapers before yet more of them have been left.

5) Project for American Century- the authors said they would need another Pearl Harbor to justify a large incursion into Middle East. This isn't a conspiracy theory, this particular point is on record. Whether it was an inside job or not, likely not but how large a coincidence is it that a few years after the Pearl Harbour point this happened?

6) Building 7. It wasn't hit by a plane yet came down at near free fall speed in its own footprint. The only time ever a steel structured building has done this as a result of fire.

7) The people on the planes were incinerated, yet one of the hijackers passports floated down intact to be found by a policeman.

8) The hijackers, with a few hours flight training in a cessna, managed to execute a 180 degree turn in a 767 at 500mph & score a direct hit on the WTC. Twice.

9)The janitors in the lower levels who felt & heard an explosion in the basement before the first plane hit.

10) The circular entry and exit holes in the Pentagon.

11) The fact that the Pentagon have been unable to release a single piece of CCTV footage showing a plane hit the Pentagon.

There's a lot of reasons why a lot of people question the official account & Eccleston should be able to question it. The media constantly throw out the "disrespect to the families" line. What a load of bollox.

[spudski]

6) Building 7. It wasn't hit by a plane yet came down at near free fall speed in its own footprint. The only time ever a steel structured building has done this as a result of fire.

7) The people on the planes were incinerated, yet one of the hijackers passports floated down intact to be found by a policeman.

8) The hijackers, with a few hours flight training in a cessna, managed to execute a 180 degree turn in a 767 at 500mph & score a direct hit on the WTC. Twice.

9)The janitors in the lower levels who felt & heard an explosion in the basement before the first plane hit.

10) The circular entry and exit holes in the Pentagon.

11) The fact that the Pentagon have been unable to release a single piece of CCTV footage showing a plane hit the Pentagon.

There's a lot of reasons why a lot of people question the official account & Eccleston should be able to question it. The media constantly throw out the "disrespect to the families" line. What a load of bollox.

I've never looked into the theorys surrounding the Pentagon plane crash. But...I've never seen evidence of families who have lost loved ones on the plane coming forward. Have they ever released a list of people lost in that crash? I've seen nothing in the media, which makes me question it.

[slartibartfast]

6) Building 7. It wasn't hit by a plane yet came down at near free fall speed in its own footprint. The only time ever a steel structured building has done this as a result of fire.

7) The people on the planes were incinerated, yet one of the hijackers passports floated down intact to be found by a policeman.

8) The hijackers, with a few hours flight training in a cessna, managed to execute a 180 degree turn in a 767 at 500mph & score a direct hit on the WTC. Twice.

9)The janitors in the lower levels who felt & heard an explosion in the basement before the first plane hit.

10) The circular entry and exit holes in the Pentagon.

11) The fact that the Pentagon have been unable to release a single piece of CCTV footage showing a plane hit the Pentagon.

There's a lot of reasons why a lot of people question the official account & Eccleston should be able to question it. The media constantly throw out the "disrespect to the families" line. What a load of bollox.

Item 7... So what are C theorists saying? That CIA/FBI are so gung-ho as to take their own lives "siucide pilot" style to aid their country.

[slartibartfast]

6) Building 7. It wasn't hit by a plane yet came down at near free fall speed in its own footprint. The only time ever a steel structured building has done this as a result of fire.

7) The people on the planes were incinerated, yet one of the hijackers passports floated down intact to be found by a policeman.

8) The hijackers, with a few hours flight training in a cessna, managed to execute a 180 degree turn in a 767 at 500mph & score a direct hit on the WTC. Twice.

9)The janitors in the lower levels who felt & heard an explosion in the basement before the first plane hit.

10) The circular entry and exit holes in the Pentagon.

11) The fact that the Pentagon have been unable to release a single piece of CCTV footage showing a plane hit the Pentagon.

There's a lot of reasons why a lot of people question the official account & Eccleston should be able to question it. The media constantly throw out the "disrespect to the families" line. What a load of bollox.

double post soz

[cheese]

[cheese]

One or two things. I don't exactly believe in the theory, in fact I'm not entirely sure either way but...

1) How do you explain the lack of plane debris in the field? Planes that usually crash have said debris all over the field. Moreover, local residents near said Pennyslvania field have said that they thought it was brought down by a missile.

2) Why would architechts say this about the buildings- gain for them? Presumably you are an architecht? I am not an architect so unqualified to speak on it, no idea if you are?

3) Firefighters in and around the buildings who survived or died believed they could put it out- the fire was manageable etc. Oddly enough it wasn't.

4) Only three skyscrapers have ever fallen with the speed or scale that occured due to 9/11- they all occured on 9/11. There have been quite big fires in skyscrapers before yet more of them have been left.

5) Project for American Century- the authors said they would need another Pearl Harbor to justify a large incursion into Middle East. This isn't a conspiracy theory, this particular point is on record. Whether it was an inside job or not, likely not but how large a coincidence is it that a few years after the Pearl Harbour point this happened?

Clearly terrorists flew planes into buildings, undoubtedly but there are a few things which could be questioned- why would architects, but more than that firefighters and people near the field of the plane crash in Pennyslvania offer such a different version to certain parts of the official events? They can't all be crazy- can they?

Most of this was covered in a TV programme the other night.

1. The plane crashed at 45 degrees - the impact crater would have fallen in on the plane covering a good deal of it. Most plane crashes involves the plane hitting the ground at a lesser angle and skidding along the ground which results in debris over a larger area;

2. Nothing to gain except 15 minutes of fame perhaps?

3. Oddly they were wrong;

4. Only 9/11 has had airliners crash into buildings before. None of the other sky scraper fires have been fuelled by aviation fuel either;

5. So God answered their prayers!.

[spudski]

Which shows a complete lack of evolutionary theory. There is no such thing as a partially evolved plant or animal. At any point in history a plant or animal is as evolved as it can be at that point.

Are they saying that they expect a fossil record to show humanoids with one eye - before evolving a second one and other such stuff? Half a kidney? Half a heart? Evolution isn't like a baby growing in the womb!

So one minute there is a fish...it grows legs...leaves the water and evolves into a Dinosaur.

Then a bird becomes a dinosaur.

Then an Ape becomes a human...

Yet there is not one evolving fossile or skeletal fossil showing any slight evolution. Yet plenty of complete actual species.

One minute a bird has wings...then all of a sudden it's got legs. Amazing. And all this takes millions of years...yet no evidence. Just some bloke who studied some Finches on the Galapogos islands comes up with a 'theory' and it's taught in schools as fact. In the same way as Religion was taught in school as fact. Our education system has a lot to answer for. It stopped people thinking for themselves and excepting everything taught as 100% true. Apparantly the Earth was once flat...and the moon was made of Cheese.

[Tim S]

The two things to consider for both arguements....

1) For the terrorists to do what they did on 9/11 all they had to do was Hijack 4 planes, which in the scheme of things if you take into consideration the slack security pre-9/11 would have been relatively simple. And then using a bit of training to fly the planes (which is actually easier than you might imagine. Flying a plane, no matter what the size is actually quite easy. The hard part is taking off, landing and navigating it. To actually move the plane in the direction you want it to go and getting the right altitude are quite easy aspects to control, which is all the terrorists needed to learn) and then fly them into the buildings. And not just any buildings, but two of the tallest buildings in the world and one of the most recognizable buildings in America (Pentagon) - so its not like they were hard targets to spot, especially on a clear day without a cloud in the sky. A hard task to co-ordinate BUT easy when you consider option 2.....

2) For there to be a conspiracy around 9/11 and that the whole thing was a giant set up would be a task beyond the realms of possibility. As a previous poster mentioned, to load a building with enough explosives to bring it down, then run the wires and set the whole thing up would be an impossible task to do without anyone knowing. Its simply not possible. So to not only do that in one giant skyscraper but TWO of them is just madness. And to then pull the whole thing off without anyone knowing or coming forward and admitting it is just not likely at all. Not only that but to make 2 airliners full of passengers just disappear and replaced by fake planes that were remotely crashed into the twin towers (as some of the conspiracy theories have claimed). So what happened to all the people?! Not even the shady American government is THAT evil just to make 400 people disappear.

Some of the conspiracy therories do have some good arguments and do make you think for a bit, but the evidence against the conspiracies greatly outweighs the evidence for them.

[cheese]

So one minute there is a fish...it grows legs...leaves the water and evolves into a Dinosaur.

Then a bird becomes a dinosaur.

Then an Ape becomes a human...

Yet there is not one evolving fossile or skeletal fossil showing any slight evolution. Yet plenty of complete actual species.

One minute a bird has wings...then all of a sudden it's got legs. Amazing. And all this takes millions of years...yet no evidence. Just some bloke who studied some Finches on the Galapogos islands comes up with a 'theory' and it's taught in schools as fact. In the same way as Religion was taught in school as fact. Our education system has a lot to answer for. It stopped people thinking for themselves and excepting everything taught as 100% true. Apparantly the Earth was once flat...and the moon was made of Cheese.

"One minute it's a fish, the next a dinoasur" and "A bird becomes a dinosaur" I think you need to look at the tree of life and see what evolved into what if you really want to pick holes in the theory.

Anyway I guess the mythical sky monster who created everything in a couple of days makes much more sense.

[spudski]

"One minute it's a fish, the next a dinoasur" and "A bird becomes a dinosaur" I think you need to look at the tree of life and see what evolved into what if you really want to pick holes in the theory.

Anyway I guess the mythical sky monster who created everything in a couple of days makes much more sense.

Don't put words in my mouth about 'Sky Monsters'... I never mentioned that.

I find it incredible though, that people of a certain generation have gone to school and been taught Darwins theory and excepted it as fact, just because it was taught at school. His theorys have been torn to shreds by modern scientists because he has no physical evidence to back up his theory's.

We now have generations of people who believe his theorys to be true.

Of all the Billions of skeletons and fossils around the world showing Dinosaurs and man, how many show a man changing from an ape like form to a human being? None...

They have found the odd skull with a raised highbrow and call it early man. It's frigging laughable. There a hundreds of Scientists making a good living out of 'Studying' these types of theory's, using Government granted money. It's all bollocks.

A dinosaur is a dinosaur...a fish a fish, a bird a bird, and a man a man. The evidence is in the ground to prove it.

Another man telling me he has a theory based on studying a bunch of finches on an Island, that then he transcribes into 'this is what must have happened to all species' is completely obsurd.

Darwins theorys are old hat.

Check out some New Scientist material, who have used modern equipment and technology to come to new conclusions. And even after another hundred years, with the advent of even more technology their theorys will be debunked too.

Many Scientists, just want to make a name for themselves and leave a legacy, and will find any bit of small evidence to back up their weird ideas and theory's.

All the evidence we need is in the ground in in nature itself. Why go looking for something that isn't their? Because man can't just except it and is always trying to look for something that they can only explain to their own small mindset and brain. Sometimes things aren't meant to be understood but just excepted. Some men find that impossible to fathom.

[cheese]

Don't put words in my mouth about 'Sky Monsters'... I never mentioned that.

I find it incredible though, that people of a certain generation have gone to school and been taught Darwins theory and excepted it as fact, just because it was taught at school. His theorys have been torn to shreds by modern scientists because he has no physical evidence to back up his theory's.

We now have generations of people who believe his theorys to be true.

Of all the Billions of skeletons and fossils around the world showing Dinosaurs and man, how many show a man changing from an ape like form to a human being? None...

They have found the odd skull with a raised highbrow and call it early man. It's frigging laughable. There a hundreds of Scientists making a good living out of 'Studying' these types of theory's, using Government granted money. It's all bollocks.

A dinosaur is a dinosaur...a fish a fish, a bird a bird, and a man a man. The evidence is in the ground to prove it.

Another man telling me he has a theory based on studying a bunch of finches on an Island, that then he transcribes into 'this is what must have happened to all species' is completely obsurd.

Darwins theorys are old hat.

Check out some New Scientist material, who have used modern equipment and technology to come to new conclusions. And even after another hundred years, with the advent of even more technology their theorys will be debunked too.

Many Scientists, just want to make a name for themselves and leave a legacy, and will find any bit of small evidence to back up their weird ideas and theory's.

All the evidence we need is in the ground in in nature itself. Why go looking for something that isn't their? Because man can't just except it and is always trying to look for something that they can only explain to their own small mindset and brain. Sometimes things aren't meant to be understood but just excepted. Some men find that impossible to fathom.

Ah sorry, I mistook you for someone who wanted a serious debate about where we came from. I understand now that you just accept we're here and has no need to understand anything further. Fair enough but I'll end by saying that you haven't studied the fossil evidence if the above is your understanding - much like Terjon passing comment on players he's never seen play.

[spudski]

Ah sorry, I mistook you for someone who wanted a serious debate about where we came from. I understand now that you just accept we're here and has no need to understand anything further. Fair enough but I'll end by saying that you haven't studied the fossil evidence if the above is your understanding - much like Terjon passing comment on players he's never seen play.

Trust me i have studied this to some degree. But my end conclusion came to reason, that we can only understand what evidence is proven to us from the past and present. Only what modern technology from today can prove now and what our brain is capable of understanding now is comprehendable. It doesn't mean it's factual. In years to come what we believe now will be debunked in future by newer and better technology and better understanding.

There is no point debating where we came from, as people have been doing this for centuries. No one will ever agree. Hense why i find it deploreable that our Education system found it right to teach a 'theory' as fact. That is brainwashing. His 'theory's' have no physical evidence to back them up. Darwin admitted this himself.

I've had more debates on this in the past with family members who have worked in this field it seems than hot dinners. I respect your opinion as much as anyones. But i feel no one will ever prove 100% the facts.

[Sir Colby-Tit]

Item 7... So what are C theorists saying? That CIA/FBI are so gung-ho as to take their own lives "siucide pilot" style to aid their country.

The media labels anyone that questions the official account a "conspiracy theorist", which leads people to believe that it's only a bunch of whackjobs that are questioning this.

The reality is completely different. There are a lot of educated, intelligent professionals raising questions. A good example can be found here

I don't think the "C theorists" are claiming to know exactly what happened - just that the official count doesn't add up, on so many levels. How would you explain the unscathed passport?

[Sir Colby-Tit]

Most of this was covered in a TV programme the other night.

1. The plane crashed at 45 degrees - the impact crater would have fallen in on the plane covering a good deal of it. Most plane crashes involves the plane hitting the ground at a lesser angle and skidding along the ground which results in debris over a larger area;

Do you mean the Conspiracy Road Trip with that Irish comedian? The programme that didn't mention WT7 once?

The "proof" given re your point above was dropping a stone into a pile of sand. Hardly conclusive.

[cheese]

Do you mean the Conspiracy Road Trip with that Irish comedian? The programme that didn't mention WT7 once?

The "proof" given re your point above was dropping a stone into a pile of sand. Hardly conclusive.

I didn't need the stone as proof - I've seen the results of meteors slamming into the ground to see the same results.

[Riaz]

Some might call myself a conspiracy theorist - I think I am open minded.

There are many unanswered questions about that day. Some were answered on the Conspiracy Road Trip programme.

For example, the towers collapsing looked like a controlled demolition - that programme explained how difficult it would have been to organise such a thing.

In that programme though, they did not explain how passengers were able to make mobile phone calls from the planes? Not sure its possible to do now, let alone 10 years ago.

The main reason I dont believe everything I am told, is because of how the US have acted since that day - this so called "war on terror" has given them an excuse to do many things they shoud'nt have. Iraq for example.....

I dont think its a massive conspiracy - only a very small number of americans involved. I think Bush had something to do with it. The Bush family and the Bin Laden family were close and did alot of business together (you guessed it oil) - so close that George Bush Snr was with a Bin Laden on 9/11. Co-incidence? maybe, maybe not.

One or two on that programme though WANTED to believe the conspiracy and still believed there own conspiracy theory even when they proven to be wrong.

We will never know for sure what really happened.

[cheese]

The media labels anyone that questions the official account a "conspiracy theorist", which leads people to believe that it's only a bunch of whackjobs that are questioning this.

The reality is completely different. There are a lot of educated, intelligent professionals raising questions. A good example can be found here

I don't think the "C theorists" are claiming to know exactly what happened - just that the official count doesn't add up, on so many levels. How would you explain the unscathed passport?

Surely the question is, Why wouldn't a passport survive the crash? Many personal items and papers from the 2 planes were found in the streets before the towers collapsed - what makes the passport so special?

Ask yourself this; what does finding the passport in the street add to the alleged conspiracy - why would they need to "plant" a passport to confirm someone was on the plane? It adds nothing imo.

[slartibartfast]

The media labels anyone that questions the official account a "conspiracy theorist", which leads people to believe that it's only a bunch of whackjobs that are questioning this.

The reality is completely different. There are a lot of educated, intelligent professionals raising questions. A good example can be found here

I don't think the "C theorists" are claiming to know exactly what happened - just that the official count doesn't add up, on so many levels. How would you explain the unscathed passport?

I'm not trying to explain anything. I have an open mind on all of this, I was just wondering if that is what was being proffered as to how the planes flew into the WTC.

One thing I'm pretty sure of is that had it been most other places in the world we wouldn't have been commemorating it with such gusto.. Yanks (AND Scousers) seem to love to wallow in self pity!

[cheese]

I'm not trying to explain anything. I have an open mind on all of this, I was just wondering if that is what was being proffered as to how the planes flew into the WTC.

One thing I'm pretty sure of is that had it been most other places in the world we wouldn't have been commemorating it with such gusto.. Yanks (AND Scousers) seem to love to wallow in self pity!

Ain't that the truth.

[Sir Colby-Tit]

Surely the question is, Why wouldn't a passport survive the crash? Many personal items and papers from the 2 planes were found in the streets before the towers collapsed - what makes the passport so special?

Ask yourself this; what does finding the passport in the street add to the alleged conspiracy - why would they need to "plant" a passport to confirm someone was on the plane? It adds nothing imo.

Just seems very convenient IMO.

It's not really that important I suppose. However the collapse of WTC7 and the anomalies surrounding the Pentagon & flight 93 are.

Everyone can believe what they want. I am just failing to see why Nathan Eccleston has done anything wrong, and why Liverpool FC should be "taking the matter very seriously". He made the remarks on his own ###### account. WTF has it got to do with his club?

Do we no longer have the right to free speech?

[glynriley]

No conspiracy at all!!!! It was a terriorist attack, simple as FOR CHRIST SAKE.

Phew !! That's put it to bed once and for all !

[glynriley]

Well come on ffs. Why do people feel the need to see something it wasn't. I also think its disrespectful to the thousands of people who died.

I've got no opinion either way , but if people want to debate it , just let them , innit !!

[Sir Colby-Tit]

Well come on ffs. Why do people feel the need to see something it wasn't. I also think its disrespectful to the thousands of people who died.

It's about opinions formed on the basis of the evidence presented.

What makes your opinion more valid than anyone elses? And why is it disrespectful?

[cheese]

Just seems very convenient IMO.

It's not really that important I suppose. However the collapse of WTC7 and the anomalies surrounding the Pentagon & flight 93 are.

Everyone can believe what they want. I am just failing to see why Nathan Eccleston has done anything wrong, and why Liverpool FC should be "taking the matter very seriously". He made the remarks on his own ###### account. WTF has it got to do with his club?

Do we no longer have the right to free speech?

Convenient for whom? What does it prove? What does it add to the conspiracy plot? It just doesn't make any sense to plant a passport in this way - not that anything on that day made any sense.

As for the guy who tweeted - he's well known, is associated with Liverpool football club and it will reflect no them. If you and I were to tweet the same stuff no-one would know us, no-one would care or know who our employers are - unless, of course, we are on the board or similarly high up. It is different for someone who is known to the public.

[Riaz]

Sorry, just makes my blood boil.

What was different about the London attacks? I'm sure that was Tony Blair and George Bush planning bombs on tubes and buses.

That's fine that you believe everything your told. Some of us like to keep an open mind.

[cheese]

That's fine that you believe everything your told. Some of us like to keep an open mind.

Open mind - code for, can't think for myself so will believe any old rubbish someone says as feasible without looking at the facts for myself.

[Riaz]

Open mind - code for, can't think for myself so will believe any old rubbish someone says as feasible without looking at the facts for myself.

If it's easier for you to dismiss by believing that, fine - But I do look at the facts - I just dont take what the american government says to be fact.

[cheese]

If it's easier for you to dismiss by believing that, fine - But I do look at the facts - I just dont take what the american government says to be fact.

hijackers took 4 planes and crashed them. Which bit don't you believe?

[Riaz]

hijackers took 4 planes and crashed them. Which bit don't you believe?

I believe that part.

[cheese]

I believe that part.

And me.

[Riaz]

Nobody has answered my question about the London attacks......

Who knows?

[WellRedPhil]

Nobody has answered my question about the London attacks......

They were separate incidents. Just because Al-Quada were behind the London attacks why does that affect the 9/11 situation? This isn't to say I believe they weren't behind 9/11 but as they are separate incidents some four years apart to believe one may have been a conspiracy does not mean that you have to believe the other was as well.

[cheese]

Sorry, just makes my blood boil.

What was different about the London attacks? I'm sure that was Tony Blair and George Bush planning bombs on tubes and buses.

There were no planes involved;

It was in England;

London is the capital of the UK, New York isn't the capital of the USA;

Fewer people died;

More British citizens died in the 9/11 attacks than i the London bombings;

It was in July, not September;

To help the Americans the terrorists helpfully made the attacks on the 7th July - so 7/7 - no confusion there - they learnt by their previous mistake.

I'm sure there are more.

[slartibartfast]

There were no planes involved;

It was in England;

London is the capital of the UK, New York isn't the capital of the USA;

Fewer people died;

More British citizens died in the 9/11 attacks than i the London bombings;

It was in July, not September;

To help the Americans the terrorists helpfully made the attacks on the 7th July - so 7/7 - no confusion there - they learnt by their previous mistake.

I'm sure there are more.

and we commemorate it in a much more dignified manner.

[Red-Robbo]

I don't dismiss conspiracy theories, per se, but in this case much of what has been said by so-called truthers ain't truth and the likelihood of a US president murdering thousands of his own citizens - mostly wealthy and the majority probably Republicans - in order to justify a military incursion that even before it began was of doubtful electoral benefit is ZERO. Imagine how many people would've had to be party to such a conspiracy? Watergate - a conspiracy to commit a routine burglary by 6 men - managed to leak out almost instantly, yet some folk believe that thousands of '9/11 conspirators' would all keep silent for years? Don't the 'truthers' think that a crooked president would use a slightly less high risk strategy to enhance his standing? You know, one that wouldn't attract the electric chair if he was caught??

As for two footballers believing in the illuminati - an ancient secret society 'ruling the world' (!!!!!!!!) - that just confirms the intellectual level of their profession is about on par with several short planks of wood. Tinfoil hats on guys, before the 10ft high alien lizards steal all your thoughts.

[Riaz]

Imagine how many people would've had to be party to such a conspiracy? Watergate - a conspiracy to commit a routine burglary by 6 men - managed to leak out almost instantly, yet some folk believe that thousands of '9/11 conspirators' would all keep silent for years?

Why would thousands have to be involved. Very few people may have been involved - the president and a couple of others at the very top. Don't ask me how, that I don't know.

Their war on terror and how much they profited from it, makes me think they possibly knew this was coming and they used it to their advantage...

[Sir Colby-Tit]

I don't dismiss conspiracy theories, per se, but in this case much of what has been said by so-called truthers ain't truth and the likelihood of a US president murdering thousands of his own citizens - mostly wealthy and the majority probably Republicans - in order to justify a military incursion that even before it began was of doubtful electoral benefit is ZERO. Imagine how many people would've had to be party to such a conspiracy? Watergate - a conspiracy to commit a routine burglary by 6 men - managed to leak out almost instantly, yet some folk believe that thousands of '9/11 conspirators' would all keep silent for years? Don't the 'truthers' think that a crooked president would use a slightly less high risk strategy to enhance his standing? You know, one that wouldn't attract the electric chair if he was caught??

As for two footballers believing in the illuminati - an ancient secret society 'ruling the world' (!!!!!!!!) - that just confirms the intellectual level of their profession is about on par with several short planks of wood. Tinfoil hats on guys, before the 10ft high alien lizards steal all your thoughts.

I wouldn't credit George Dubya with the intelligence. The leaders of the military-industrial complex and the banking cartels are a different matter.

[Red-Robbo]

Why would thousands have to be involved. Very few people may have been involved - the president and a couple of others at the very top. Don't ask me how, that I don't know.

Their war on terror and how much they profited from it, makes me think they possibly knew this was coming and they used it to their advantage...

Well the people who planted the WTC 'bombs' and fired the 'Pentagon missile' would have been involved as would the staff of Air Defense and of course the many experts who investigated the crashes, and the intelligence agents who somehow framed or otherwise arranged for 19 perfectly innocent fanatical Muslim jihadists to have been on the planes - having somehow faked their suicide videos - and then we get onto the people who phoned their loved ones from the planes and described what was happening. Maybe they were in on it too?

So yes, many hundreds if not thousands of people would have needed to pull-off such a stunt.

Did the government know in advance these attacks would happen? No. If they did, they'd have smashed the terror ring and gained massive plaudits - and still could have used it as a launchpad for a "war against terror".

[Red-Robbo]

I wouldn't credit George Dubya with the intelligence.

Well, we agree on one thing anyway!

[A Horse With No Name]

Phew !! That's put it to bed once and for all !

Ok sorted........ Now then , why did the flag flutter when planted on the moon in 1969?

[Sir Colby-Tit]

Ok sorted........ Now then , why did the flag flutter when planted on the moon in 1969?

I think Neil Armstrong farted. In excitement.

Who filmed Neil Armstrong coming down the ladder?

[Riaz]

Well the people who planted the WTC 'bombs' and fired the 'Pentagon missile' would have been involved as would the staff of Air Defense and of course the many experts who investigated the crashes, and the intelligence agents who somehow framed or otherwise arranged for 19 perfectly innocent fanatical Muslim jihadists to have been on the planes - having somehow faked their suicide videos - and then we get onto the people who phoned their loved ones from the planes and described what was happening. Maybe they were in on it too?

So yes, many hundreds if not thousands of people would have needed to pull-off such a stunt.

I don't believe for a second that's what happened.

IF there was any inside involvement, it would be alot simplier than that.

[screech]

Ok sorted........ Now then , why did the flag flutter when planted on the moon in 1969?