Monkeh Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 How is that relevant? point is, were struggling because of our terrible transfer dealings in the summer. Even though it is not at all relevant, I will answer your question. GK James DR Spence DL McGivern DC NEW SIGNING DC Wilson MC Cisse/Eliott MC Kilkenny MR Albert ML JCR ST Stead ST Pitman I've chosen Pitman purely because maynard looks like he is off in the summer - if maynard signed a contract, he'd be my first choice. But I dont see the sense in pissing off pitman to play a guy who isnt here long term. I know Millen would never have the balls to drop maynard put the signings issue aside, I think its a valid question, Your made manager tomorrow and you've been told you have to work with what you got until jan, What formation and players would you use? I think thats what he's getting at Raiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foghornred Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Why does Millen revert to 4-4-2 when we are a goal down near the end ? Its because he needs a goal and he knows that he has more chance of getting one with 4-4-2 but dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foghornred Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Why does Millen revert to 4-4-2 when we are a goal down near the end ? Its because he needs a goal and he knows that he has more chance of getting one with 4-4-2 but dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syco Posted September 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 it doesn't f ing work 4-5-1 a return of 1 win 2 draws and 4 losses with 3 goals scored and 9 against it doesnt bloody work Elliot and skuse can't play together maynard can't play up top on his own nether can pitman so that leaves the non goalscoring stead none of the midfield will score or get forward often enough and we can't defend with it, i can't see why some of you can't see this, looking at the f ing league table again and tell me 4-5-1 works Thing is it is slowly starting to work. We can not play with 2 central midfielders with our current players. So who would you play if you were leave out either Skuse or Elliot? They and JCR are the most experienced Championship players in midfield so please don't suggest that rookies Bolasie or Reid should be thrown in at the deep end. Its been pointed many times that Millen lacks the resources but the anti brigade poo poo that fact. I do agree that Maynard as a lone striker at AG doesn't work but what other options are there? You say 4-5-1 doesn't work ( I assume you mean at AG), neither does 4-4-2. Keef reckons the 4-5-1 we all saw against Brighton was in fact 4-3-3. I'm not convinced about that. It definitely looked like Maynard was on his own up front. It is a fluid formation and has the ability to morph in to others depending on attacking or defending situations and that is why so many managers are begining to use this system. A 4-4-2 is too ridged. It's either a 4-4-2 or a 4-2-4. I'd go back to 4-4-2 with kilkenny and elliot in the middle (the only time we played 4-4-2 was against ipswich this season with skuse and elliot and we couldn't retain possession) and go up to with Maynard/Pitman and Stead, JCR Left Wing Adomah Right wing, Mclovin LB Carey CB Wilson CB Edwards RB You can't play Kilkenny and Elliott in central midfield together simply because Kilkenny can't tackle. Elliott likes to get forward too much. I dont think Keef planned to play 451 - if so why does he keep buying strikers and then play 1 up top? Problem is, we never strengthened adequately at the back - it took keef a couple of games to notice this (even though it was obvious) Having realised this - plus the fact he cant organise a team to defend - he decides to put as many players behind the ball as possible and stick our best striker up top - even though the role does not suit him (It suits Jon Stead) Tatically Millen is poor - If you watched Brighton last night dominate the game versus Liverpool last night - you would have seen what an impact a good manager CAN make - especially when you consider they were in League One last season. Millen cant organise a team - let alone get us to play the sort of football Brighton were playing! He doesn't keep buying strikers. Taylor was a bargain to be had. I think we should however send him out on loan to a league one to get some games. Keith tried all summer to get defenders in and i'm sure he is trying now. There is zero point in bringing someone in if they are not going to improve us. The players he went for all went to higher clubs.He has tried to improve us but because them players wont come here keith is being slated for it. I don't get that if i'm honest. In time with this formation we will be playing football like Brighton. A new system takes time. Just like it did with Johnson. As I previously said yes this role would suit Stead but whilst Maynard is yet to sign a contract then he is basically being forced to play Maynard. Millen has been most successful playing 3-5-2.....and i have to admit, I do like this formation. Used it myself when managing my local team and always liked the extra man it gave you in midfield. The concerns I have with City is though....do we have the personel good enough to play wing backs? the obvious midfield triplet will be Kilkenny, Skuse and Elliott......real shame Cisse seems finished at City in my opinion. 4-3-3 doesnt work with City as we to often (maybe not intentionally) revert to 4-5-1..... This formation is not much different to a 3-5-2, I have always liked a 3-5-2 but we do not have the players for it. If we were to play it then McGivern and either Spence or Albert would have to be dropped. Plus I don't think we have the defenders to play 3-5-2. Keiths signing suggest he has planned to play this system. How is that relevant? point is, were struggling because of our terrible transfer dealings in the summer. Even though it is not at all relevant, I will answer your question. GK James DR Spence DL McGivern DC NEW SIGNING DC Wilson MC Cisse/Eliott MC Kilkenny MR Albert ML JCR ST Stead ST Pitman I've chosen Pitman purely because maynard looks like he is off in the summer - if maynard signed a contract, he'd be my first choice. But I dont see the sense in pissing off pitman to play a guy who isnt here long term. I know Millen would never have the balls to drop maynard Again we with our players can not play a 4-4-2. Elliott and Kilkenny can not play together. put the signings issue aside, I think its a valid question, Your made manager tomorrow and you've been told you have to work with what you got until jan, What formation and players would you use? I think thats what he's getting at Raiz My guess after a couple of games and seeing we can't play 4-4-2 no longer it would be a formation similar to the one we are employing. In all my time as a City fan we have played 4-4-2 for the majority. I think Keith has upset the apple cart by changing the formation simply because it's not traditional to Bristol City and our fans don't take to change. I remember when we went to 4-4-1-1 under Johnson many complained about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syco Posted September 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Why does Millen revert to 4-4-2 when we are a goal down near the end ? Its because he needs a goal and he knows that he has more chance of getting one with 4-4-2 but dont I don't think we do change to a 4-4-2 I think we push forward more and it turns into an outright 4-3-3 in the traditional sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundz18 Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 In all fairness we tried 4-4-1-1 last season with Clarkson just behind Maynard, and it seemed to work until Clarkson was later dropped, but however you look at it it's still 4-5-1 with an attacking midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Again we with our players can not play a 4-4-2. Elliott and Kilkenny can not play together. Not with this manager in charge no - his teams are organised enough. I dont see any reason why elliott and kilkenny cant play together?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 You can't play Kilkenny and Elliott in central midfield together simply because Kilkenny can't tackle. Elliott likes to get forward too much. utter rubbish, for a start we've not played 4-4-2 with elliot and kilkenny so how do you know if it doesn't work please explain, Also our best performances and runs in the championship came with Johnson and Elliot together, remember according to some johnson can't pass only sideways can't tackle and can't head, your arguement for kilkenny is he can't tackle.....leeds fans says his strongest part is his tackle......hmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I like 3-5-2 but it would mean dropping Albert as he's not a wing back, James Carey Wilson Spence McLovin Riberio wing backs Kilkenny JCR Elliot Stead Maynard I remember we played 3-4-3 at the beginning of the season before last. It got ditched despite us never losing with it. We played Haynes and clarkson behind Maynard up top - PNE away I think. Elliott and Hartley in midfield and Orr and Macallister as wing backs. The key difference is that the 2 strikers who support the one up top aren't stuck wide like in 4 5 1. The formation needs them to move around more, to get in the gap between midfield and the forwards because the side only has 2 central midfielders. That has been one of our key problems this season. It could give us the movement off the ball that Kilkenny needs for his passing ability to be effective. He is criticised in some quarters for passing the ball sideways, but this is because this it is his only realistic option to keep possession. Albert doesn't need to be wide to be effective - he's not a great crosser of the ball. What he does is run at defences and cause problems. To balance it out, you need a striker with decent movement to get to support the main striker and Maynard can certainly do this. Teams would struggle to mark him if he was given more freedom. 3 at the back means less of a need for a defensive holding midfielder to protect. It would be the ideal basis to get the most out of Kilkenny and allow us to get Carey back in the side which we need for his personality and experience more than anything else. James Carey Wilson Nyatanga Spence Kilkenny Elliott McGivern Albert Maynard Stead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I remember we played 3-4-3 at the beginning of the season before last. It got ditched despite us never losing with it. We played Haynes and clarkson behind Maynard up top - PNE away I think. Elliott and Hartley in midfield and Orr and Macallister as wing backs. The key difference is that the 2 strikers who support the one up top aren't stuck wide like in 4 5 1. The formation needs them to move around more, to get in the gap between midfield and the forwards because the side only has 2 central midfielders. That has been one of our key problems this season. It could give us the movement off the ball that Kilkenny needs for his passing ability to be effective. He is criticised in some quarters for passing the ball sideways, but this is because this it is his only realistic option to keep possession. Albert doesn't need to be wide to be effective - he's not a great crosser of the ball. What he does is run at defences and cause problems. To balance it out, you need a striker with decent movement to get to support the main striker and Maynard can certainly do this. Teams would struggle to mark him if he was given more freedom. 3 at the back means less of a need for a defensive holding midfielder to protect. It would be the ideal basis to get the most out of Kilkenny and allow us to get Carey back in the side which we need for his personality and experience more than anything else. James Carey Wilson Nyatanga Spence Kilkenny Elliott McGivern Albert Maynard Stead never even considered that, two wide players in the four I would guess would have to be mobile wingback roles over lapping going forward and dropping in when defending? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syco Posted September 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Not with this manager in charge no - his teams are organised enough. I dont see any reason why elliott and kilkenny cant play together?! With our defense to play a 4-4-2 we would need to play Cisse and Elliott. That would work but then Kilkenny does not fit in anywhere and Cisse is not on KM's plans. utter rubbish, for a start we've not played 4-4-2 with elliot and kilkenny so how do you know if it doesn't work please explain, Also our best performances and runs in the championship came with Johnson and Elliot together, remember according to some johnson can't pass only sideways can't tackle and can't head, your arguement for kilkenny is he can't tackle.....leeds fans says his strongest part is his tackle......hmmmmmmm At that time tho we had a better defense. Carey was in his prime and Fontaine and Vasko were in good form. From what I have seen of Kilkenny he can not tackle or doesn't go in for tackles. Don't judge players on what bitter Leeds fans say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 With our defense to play a 4-4-2 we would need to play Cisse and Elliott. That would work but then Kilkenny does not fit in anywhere and Cisse is not on KM's plans. At that time tho we had a better defense. Carey was in his prime and Fontaine and Vasko were in good form. From what I have seen of Kilkenny he can not tackle or doesn't go in for tackles. Don't judge players on what bitter Leeds fans say. no we never we had the same defense as we hae now When all fit it will be McAllister (Same as back then) Carey (Same as back then) Fontaine (same as back then) and Spence who is on par with orr at best, oh and james who is a great keeper depending who you talk too, Our problem is set peices and that for me is a coaching issue, it started to devlop under johnson and has got worse, I would wager of the 12 or so goals we have concided at least 9 are from set peices, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornacix the Druid Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Originally put this on the wrong thread, but I'll put a spanner in the works by going: 4-1-3-2 spence, Wilson, Carey, McGivern. Cisse Elliot, Killkenny, Adomah Maynard, Stead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mundz18 Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 If he does go 4-4-2, then drops Elliot and leave Skuse in midfield, then I'd be pissed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REDOXO Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 A lot on this thread to think about, however 0 goals 0 wins 1point at home IS the vital statistic KM has two options obviously...Stick to his guns and play Maynard in a one or go for change. My feeling is the players and the fans need a lift and I would be looking at providing that by naming Bobby Reid in the 11. Nothing galvanizes like a young player coming through with all the enthusiasm that brings! Also we need that box to box engine that the kid will bring to the side Please no abuse, but I would be inclined to play Stead and Pitman in attack and have Maynard on the bench. Both our number 2 and 3 striker have something to prove and I personally dont see that Nicky's head is completely right for the situation we are in.. Also in goal its close between James and Gerkin and lets face it our only win has been with Gerkin between the sticks, but this could go either way. Thus my team would be James/Gerkin Spence Wilson McLovin Adomah Reid Elliot Killkenny JCR Stead Pitman Subs Maynard Carey James/Gerkin Skuse Woolford With Skuse and Carey on the bench we could change to a more orthadox 442 if necessary, however we will see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marmite Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Seems to me , reading this thread, that no one is sure of our best formation or selection. ( including KM and the players). I think that we need our creative player, i.e. Kilkenny in this case, Playing behind the front line instead of infront the back line. Otherwise we might as well have stuck with LJ in that role and saved Kilkennys tranfer money. Just my opinion but probably right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syco Posted September 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 no we never we had the same defense as we hae now When all fit it will be McAllister (Same as back then) Carey (Same as back then) Fontaine (same as back then) and Spence who is on par with orr at best, oh and james who is a great keeper depending who you talk too, Our problem is set peices and that for me is a coaching issue, it started to devlop under johnson and has got worse, I would wager of the 12 or so goals we have concided at least 9 are from set peices, No the defense was better back then and i'm sure most will agree. Carey is two years older now and past it. Fontaine is not the same now as he used to be due to his ankle injury. McAlister is now also past it and can't stay fit for any long periods of time. McAlister I doubt will get back in the team once fit. Do you honestly think during the week the players spend no time practicing set pieces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 No the defense was better back then and i'm sure most will agree. Carey is two years older now and past it. Fontaine is not the same now as he used to be due to his ankle injury. McAlister is now also past it and can't stay fit for any long periods of time. McAlister I doubt will get back in the team once fit. Do you honestly think during the week the players spend no time practicing set pieces? I'm sure they do but somthing must be fundementally wrong with the coaching and training as the defense are making the same mistakes every week, Take leeds second, I think thats the 6th time I've seen some one ghost in at the back post unmarked and score this season, We are not learning and I do think its coaching thats the floor, Now I want millen gone at the moment but I'm fickle enough to change my mind if results and or performances improve, but I really think we need to bring in a defensive coach from out side the club, non of this old boy rubbish but some one who has had no history at the club to shake things up, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syco Posted September 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 I'm sure they do but somthing must be fundementally wrong with the coaching and training as the defense are making the same mistakes every week, Take leeds second, I think thats the 6th time I've seen some one ghost in at the back post unmarked and score this season, We are not learning and I do think its coaching thats the floor, Now I want millen gone at the moment but I'm fickle enough to change my mind if results and or performances improve, but I really think we need to bring in a defensive coach from out side the club, non of this old boy rubbish but some one who has had no history at the club to shake things up, Considering Keith is a former decent defender I really can't see how the coaching is to blame. Our goals are conceded by players not picking players up. I believe that is the fault of not having a decent captain on the pitch. We need someone on the pitch that can direct and orgainise the team during set pieces and I don't think we currently have anyone able to do that in the whole squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy082005 Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Considering Keith is a former decent defender I really can't see how the coaching is to blame. Our goals are conceded by players not picking players up. I believe that is the fault of not having a decent captain on the pitch. We need someone on the pitch that can direct and orgainise the team during set pieces and I don't think we currently have anyone able to do that in the whole squad. ....maybe he shouldn't have give a contract to a player who is way passed it and disabled? These players are professional footballers. Each and every one of them should no the basics when it comes to set pieces. For me, the fact we don't is a mixture of our players being average AND poor coaching. Millen needs replacing. Ive said it before, it was Millen who said it last year when Coppell got the job. New faces from outside the club is good as it can bring new ideas to the table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foghornred Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Why does Millen revert to 4-4-2 when we are a goal down near the end ? Its because he needs a goal and he knows that he has more chance of getting one with 4-4-2 but dont we need a goal just as much in the first minute as well as the last minute ? Sorry about that as it was not finished,last time I post with my I Pod during my lunch half hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Originally put this on the wrong thread, but I'll put a spanner in the works by going: 4-1-3-2 spence, Wilson, Carey, McGivern. Cisse Elliot, Killkenny, Adomah Maynard, Stead. Similar to my formation I mentioned here . Or for those who can't use links: I'd play 4-4-2 because basically at this level it is the formation that English players are most comfortable with. I'd stick with the same back 5 as against Leeds. Yes, Spence has been poor in the last couple of games but Carey is no rightback and, if Hull have a left winger with any pace, we will be murdered on the left. In midfield I would play Cisse in front of the back four and tell him to never be more than ten yards away from them. I'd play Kilkenny further forward with JCR and Albert either side (and on an inspirational thought I'd perhaps switch JCR and Albert around a bit - coaches, who needs 'em). Upfront I'd have Maynard and Stead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted September 22, 2011 Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 never even considered that, two wide players in the four I would guess would have to be mobile wingback roles over lapping going forward and dropping in when defending? Basically yeah. If the manager wants to give the side a more attacking look, JCR or Woolford could play in one of the wing back roles. Doing something like this would be a huge gamble. If certain players bought into it, it could spark us off. If not, we could get a right pasting. We certainly have the players to play with a back 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syco Posted September 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2011 Basically yeah. If the manager wants to give the side a more attacking look, JCR or Woolford could play in one of the wing back roles. Doing something like this would be a huge gamble. If certain players bought into it, it could spark us off. If not, we could get a right pasting. We certainly have the players to play with a back 3. I think a 3-5-2 would be less attacking than what we are playing now. Our wing backs would if playing against a 4-4-2 be doubled up by there full back and winger. It would for large parts either be a 3-5-2 or a 5-3-2. Our players that could play wing backs have not got the ability to get up and down and defend and attack for 90 mins. Get caught on the break like we are already prone to when our wing backs are forward and we will be torn apart down the wings with only 3 defenders instead of the standard 4. A 3-5-2 simply does not work in the english game because England does not produce the sort of players that are able to perform a variety of roles that is required from a wing back. They need to be able to get forward and be a threat on the byline, They need to provide crosses or though balls and also get back and tackle and man mark. Keith has already admitted we are unable to zonal mark. If we can't do that I doubt we can play 3-5-2 successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syco Posted September 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 4-4-2 didn't really work for us did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwayBelieves Posted September 30, 2011 Report Share Posted September 30, 2011 Lets face it people.. We should have been 5-0 up but were very unlucky hitting the bar twice and their keeper being well simply outstanding. And the ONLY reason we lost is down to two keeper mistakes! And i know your gunna be like Well Millen picks Jamo, but the games prior to Reading Jamo has been class and i dont blame millen for keeping him in.. However i Guarantee Deano will be reinstated to the team. One last thing people have been saying i dont care if we lose i just want to see entertaining football and us Attacking and actually testing their keeper. Well that what you got tuesday night! Atleats performances have been improving.. Leeds, hull, Brighton and reading have all been good performances! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.