Our Tactics

[Guest Syco]

I have read a lot recently about our current formation/tactics. Recently Millen got a lot of stick for saying we got our tactics spot on against Brighton, I actually agree with him and I think we are very close to getting it right. I read many things saying Millen is tactically inept and doesn't have a clue because he is playing one up front especially at home, What would you say or think if I suggested we are setting up our formation just like Barcelona or Arsenal? Laugh in my face? Well that is exactly what I am suggesting and below I shall go in to more detail. Barca and Arsenal both play with one up front and are regarded as teh two most attractive and attacking teams on this planet on their day.

I'm not pretending to be a tactical genious but as I've taken a some coaching badges I have done much research on tactics formations etc so have a little knowledge on this subject. I also think our formation is more attacking than many percieve. On paper indeed it is a 4-5-1 but in reality it's a 4-1-2-2-1 That looks like this,

------------Maynard---------------

JCR-------------------------Adomah

------Skuse---------Elliott-------

-------------Kilkenny-------------

Mcgivern--Nyatanga--Wilson--Spence

-------------James----------------

A flat back four with the full backs given the freedom to get forward and support the attack, Kilkenny often gets slated for his sideways passes not enough goals etc but his purpose in the formation is to sit between midfield and defense, He's a deep playmaker and although his role may not to the fans seem important it is actually vital for this formation to work. He should be the starting point of all attacks and when he has the ball he should have at least 3 options to pass the ball.

Elliott is played as a box to box midfielder, He dashes forward and gets on the end of crosses plus he gets back to tackle etc. Skuse sits there in the middle and to me he is the weak link in this formation,

Skuse is good at tackling and that is it. If he improved his passing and crossing then he would do well in this role. But really we need another Elliott in this role.

The wingers are asked to bomb up and down and cut inside and either take a shot or lay it off for someone else.

The only role that baffles me is Maynards. I simply don't think he is suitable for this role. This role involves winning the ball and holding it up for a team mate, I think Stead would be more suited to this role but Maynard is defo not going to sign a contract whilst sat on the bench.

Many clubs are now using this formation or some variation of it as if you got the right players for it then it works incredibly well and I think that is our problem. Skuse nor Maynard fit this formation. Drop Maynard for Stead and bring in a box to box midfielder.

Our problem isn't the tactics nor the manager it's the personal available to the manager and their individual mistakes that our costing us.

When switching to a new system it always take a while for players to familiarise themselves with it, Ten, Fifteen and even 20 games it can take to take a hold and bear fruits.

Keith has obviously been planning this system for a while as can be seen by the signings he has made.

I for one have the uptmost respect for Keith for standing by this system despite critism from many. I am delighted he is changing our phlosiphy and I am extremely excited about this.

It would help Keith greatly if he came out and explained this system to the fans who many are stuck in the days of the 4-4-2 which is a dying formation. But if he did come out and explain the system then the opposition would be more aware of it.

As fans we just need to have patience and wait for this system to kick in. It will happen. Just takes time.

If we were truly playing 4-5-1 I would be the first to moan and groan. However it's a very modern take on the 4-5-1.

[Monkeh]

It doesnt work a return of 0 goas 0 wins 0entertainment is proof it doesn't

For a start something we found out 3 years ago alskuse and Elliot does not work in the last 5 years Johnson and Elliot was our most productive midfield pairing we should go with Kilkenny and Elliot

With stead and Maynard up top

[milo1111]

Cheers for that keef.

It's all about getting the best out of the players that are here to get results and entertain occassionally. Millen is failing badly at the moment with this.

[westonred]

Come on, our tatics clearly arn''t working as we are not creating chances or scoring goals !! We have only had 35 shots on target so far this season compared to Peterboroughs 74 Cardiffs 56 Millwalls 57 Boro's 57 Southamptons 53 the list goes on.

When we played Doncaster the other week we only had one shot on target the entire game, doe's that sound like we've got the tatics right ?

[foghornred]

Correct the formation can work with the right personal but our midfield just is not good enough,on Saturday at Leeds I saw Maynard making some great runs but we never had a player like Xavi or Iniesta at Barca or Wiltshire or Artera at Arsenal to play the correct ball through to him.

You have to play the formation that most suits your players and we don't have wingbacks or skillfull midfielders so lets play to our strengths and go 4-4-2 !

[mundz18]

Double post

[mundz18]

I don't see how 4-4-2 can work with the players we got,

can't play Kilkenny and a defensive midfielder because then were too deep and have no one to fill the gap between midfield and attack, as proved when playing against Swindon.

We could play Elliot and Kilkenny, but if

Elliot attacks and we get caught on the break then Kilkenny's going to get overun.

Could play Cisse and Elliot but then we haven't got any one that can make a pass over 5 yards.

IMO 3 centre midfielders is right if we dropped Skuse for Cisse. But it's getting the tactics right.

[Guest ashtonphil]

I think it will be 4-42- on Saturday

James

Spence, Wilson, Nyatanga, McGivern

Albert, Eliot, Kilkenny,JCR

Stead, Maynard

[mundz18]

To be honest if Millen does go 4-4-2 then it means he's given in to peir pressure and because of that it means he really don't know what he's doing, thinks it's a case of dammed if he does, and dammed if he don't.

[Guest Syco]

Correct the formation can work with the right personal but our midfield just is not good enough,on Saturday at Leeds I saw Maynard making some great runs but we never had a player like Xavi or Iniesta at Barca or Wiltshire or Artera at Arsenal to play the correct ball through to him.

You have to play the formation that most suits your players and we don't have wingbacks or skillfull midfielders so lets play to our strengths and go 4-4-2 !

As someone has said below the formation we are playing does suit our personal. 4-4-3 is simply not possible with our personal. I would put my neck on the line and say our performance and results would be far worse if we did play 4-4-2. As I previously said this formation can work and will work it just takes time. Skuse is the weak link in this formation and I think for it to work we need another Hartley.

[Pederho ll]

I'd drop Adomah and JCR and go 4-3-3

Maynard-Stead-Pitman

Cisse-Kilkenny-Elliot

McGivern-Wilson-Carey-Spence

Gerken

Just go for it and play all your best forwards and see what happens.

[mundz18]

I'd drop Adomah and JCR and go 4-3-3

Maynard-Stead-Pitman

Cisse-Kilkenny-Elliot

McGivern-Wilson-Carey-Spence

Gerken

Just go for it and play all your best forwards and see what happens.

See now I'd go for

Maynard. Stead. Adomah

Elliot

Kilkenny. Cisse

McGivern Nyatanga Wilson Spence

James

I don't see a problem with our defence, I just don't think our midfield is giving them much protection.

Attacking wise I think our wingers need to get closer to our striker and look for knock ons, which Stead can provide. With Elliot coming in from deep.

[ollywhyte]

Think we need to return to the basics for now and go for a simple 4-4-2.

James

Spence Wilson Fontaine McGivern

Adomah Kilkenny Elliott JCR/Bolasie?

Maynard Stead/Pitman/Taylor

Have no clue what the selection will be this weekend, but hope Bolasie is given a chance soon. Potential similar to Albert when he first arrived here, and if he can emulate half of what Albert has done it will be worth it. Worth a go imo.

[Guest Syco]

Think we need to return to the basics for now and go for a simple 4-4-2.

James

Spence Wilson Fontaine McGivern

Adomah Kilkenny Elliott JCR/Bolasie?

Maynard Stead/Pitman/Taylor

Have no clue what the selection will be this weekend, but hope Bolasie is given a chance soon. Potential similar to Albert when he first arrived here, and if he can emulate half of what Albert has done it will be worth it. Worth a go imo.

IMO our current formation would work if JCR replaced Skuse and Bolasie played on the left. JCR would offer more attacking threat than Skuse and has the pace to work box to box. Skuse imo is a better RB than a midfielder.

[Monkeh]

IMO our current formation would work if JCR replaced Skuse and Bolasie played on the left. JCR would offer more attacking threat than Skuse and has the pace to work box to box. Skuse imo is a better RB than a midfielder.

it doesn't f ing work

4-5-1 a return of 1 win 2 draws and 4 losses with 3 goals scored and 9 against it doesnt bloody work

Elliot and skuse can't play together

maynard can't play up top on his own nether can pitman so that leaves the non goalscoring stead

none of the midfield will score or get forward often enough and we can't defend with it,

i can't see why some of you can't see this, looking at the f ing league table again and tell me 4-5-1 works

[mundz18]

it doesn't f ing work

4-5-1 a return of 1 win 2 draws and 4 losses with 3 goals scored and 9 against it doesnt bloody work

Elliot and skuse can't play together

maynard can't play up top on his own nether can pitman so that leaves the non goalscoring stead

none of the midfield will score or get forward often enough and we can't defend with it,

i can't see why some of you can't see this, looking at the f ing league table again and tell me 4-5-1 works

I get what your saying, but we've played 4-4-2 twice this season, Ipswich and Swindon.

The Swindon match being the worst I've ever seen us play, so I can't see how that's the answer either.

My arguments not the formation, it's the players used in the formation, same with 4-4-2 don't think we've got the players for this it to work.

[Robbored]

Elliot and skuse can't play together

maynard can't play up top on his own nether can pitman so that leaves the non goalscoring stead

none of the midfield will score or get forward often enough and we can't defend with it,

So who would you play if you were leave out either Skuse or Elliot? They and JCR are the most experienced Championship players in midfield so please don't suggest that rookies Bolasie or Reid should be thrown in at the deep end. Its been pointed many times that Millen lacks the resources but the anti brigade poo poo that fact.

I do agree that Maynard as a lone striker at AG doesn't work but what other options are there? You say 4-5-1 doesn't work ( I assume you mean at AG), neither does 4-4-2. Keef reckons the 4-5-1 we all saw against Brighton was in fact 4-3-3. I'm not convinced about that. It definitely looked like Maynard was on his own up front.

[Guest Bored Dilemma]

Poor managers IMO harp on about formations - the need to over complicate the relatively simple was most eloquently put by Cloughie in football. If you're good enough we could play several formations and win. Intellectual Capital counts for little in football - it's about getting the best from your team. Transplanting your irrepressible will to win onto your charges and using everything within your grasp to get them playing at their peak. No one suggests it's easy - but a manager who openly states he just wants his players to be "happy" is troubling. That's not what he wants at all.

[Monkeh]

So who would you play if you were leave out either Skuse or Elliot? They and JCR are the most experienced Championship players in midfield so please don't suggest that rookies Bolasie or Reid should be thrown in at the deep end. Its been pointed many times that Millen lacks the resources but the anti brigade poo poo that fact.

I do agree that Maynard as a lone striker at AG doesn't work but what other options are there? You say 4-5-1 doesn't work ( I assume you mean at AG), neither does 4-4-2. Keef reckons the 4-5-1 we all saw against Brighton was in fact 4-3-3. I'm not convinced about that. It definitely looked like Maynard was on his own up front.

I'd go back to 4-4-2 with kilkenny and elliot in the middle (the only time we played 4-4-2 was against ipswich this season with skuse and elliot and we couldn't retain possession)

and go up to with Maynard/Pitman and Stead, JCR Left Wing Adomah Right wing,

Mclovin LB Carey CB Wilson CB Edwards RB

[Robbored]

I'd go back to 4-4-2 with kilkenny and elliot in the middle (the only time we played 4-4-2 was against ipswich this season with skuse and elliot and we couldn't retain possession)

and go up to with Maynard/Pitman and Stead, JCR Left Wing Adomah Right wing,

Mclovin LB Carey CB Wilson CB Edwards RB

I think that City were 4-4-2 at Cardiff as well and that along with the Ipswich loss meant 6 goals conceded when playing that formation.

Imo Millen hasn't had full confidence in his defence for ages and thats why he's adopted 5 across the midfield. The extra man (usually Kilkenny or Skuse) gives added protection but the price you pay is restricted quick attacking movement.

Personally I'd stick with 4-5-1 away but go either 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 at AG. Millen has to play two recognised strikers at home. Pick any two from three. Maynard, Pitman and Stead.

[Puckle_red]

Gerken;

Spence, Wilson, Nyatanga, McGivern;

Adomah, Kilkenny, Cisse, Bolasie;

Maynard Stead;

Subs; James, B.Reid, Carey, Pitman, Woolford

That would be my team and yes, I do realise there is no Marv, Skuse, Fontaine.

It's not hard. Only tough choice is between Pitman and Stead. Bobby Reid in the middle alongside Kilkenny would be my choice but we would then severely lack height.

[Riaz]

I dont think Keef planned to play 451 - if so why does he keep buying strikers and then play 1 up top?

Problem is, we never strengthened adequately at the back - it took keef a couple of games to notice this (even though it was obvious)

Having realised this - plus the fact he cant organise a team to defend - he decides to put as many players behind the ball as possible and stick our best striker up top - even though the role does not suit him (It suits Jon Stead)

Tatically Millen is poor - If you watched Brighton last night dominate the game versus Liverpool last night - you would have seen what an impact a good manager CAN make - especially when you consider they were in League One last season.

Millen cant organise a team - let alone get us to play the sort of football Brighton were playing!

[Monkeh]

I think that City were 4-4-2 at Cardiff as well and that along with the Ipswich loss meant 6 goals conceded when playing that formation.

Imo Millen hasn't had full confidence in his defence for ages and thats why he's adopted 5 across the midfield. The extra man (usually Kilkenny or Skuse) gives added protection but the price you pay is restricted quick attacking movement.

Personally I'd stick with 4-5-1 away but go either 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 at AG. Millen has to play two recognised strikers at home. Pick any two from three. Maynard, Pitman and Stead.

we played "4-3-3" with Kilkenny Skuse and Elliot in the middle and Albert Maynard and Pitman up front but it reverted to 4-5-1 with Albert on the right and Pitman on the left of midfield

[Andy082005]

I think that City were 4-4-2 at Cardiff as well and that along with the Ipswich loss meant 6 goals conceded when playing that formation.

Imo Millen hasn't had full confidence in his defence for ages and thats why he's adopted 5 across the midfield. The extra man (usually Kilkenny or Skuse) gives added protection but the price you pay is restricted quick attacking movement.

Personally I'd stick with 4-5-1 away but go either 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 at AG. Millen has to play two recognised strikers at home. Pick any two from three. Maynard, Pitman and Stead.

Millen has been most successful playing 3-5-2.....and i have to admit, I do like this formation. Used it myself when managing my local team and always liked the extra man it gave you in midfield.

The concerns I have with City is though....do we have the personel good enough to play wing backs? the obvious midfield triplet will be Kilkenny, Skuse and Elliott......real shame Cisse seems finished at City in my opinion.

4-3-3 doesnt work with City as we to often (maybe not intentionally) revert to 4-5-1.....

[Monkeh]

Millen has been most successful playing 3-5-2.....and i have to admit, I do like this formation. Used it myself when managing my local team and always liked the extra man it gave you in midfield.

The concerns I have with City is though....do we have the personel good enough to play wing backs? the obvious midfield triplet will be Kilkenny, Skuse and Elliott......real shame Cisse seems finished at City in my opinion.

4-3-3 doesnt work with City as we to often (maybe not intentionally) revert to 4-5-1.....

I like 3-5-2 but it would mean dropping Albert as he's not a wing back,

James

Carey Wilson Spence

McLovin Riberio wing backs

Kilkenny JCR Elliot

Stead Maynard

[Riaz]

Its so obvious that millen intended to play 442

If you play 451 - you have to drop maynard (pitman does not really fit in anywhere)

and if you play 3-5-2 you have to drop Albert

OUR BEST 2 PLAYERS.

and he cant play 442 because he is cant organise a team defensively and has'nt brought in a strong defender!

[mundz18]

Its so obvious that millen intended to play 442

If you play 451 - you have to drop maynard (pitman does not really fit in anywhere)

and if you play 3-5-2 you have to drop Albert

OUR BEST 2 PLAYERS.

and he cant play 442 because he is cant organise a team defensively and has'nt brought in a strong defender!

What would be you team and formation?

[Riaz]

What would be you team and formation?

How is that relevant? point is, were struggling because of our terrible transfer dealings in the summer.

Even though it is not at all relevant, I will answer your question.

GK James

DR Spence

DL McGivern

DC NEW SIGNING

DC Wilson

MC Cisse/Eliott

MC Kilkenny

MR Albert

ML JCR

ST Stead

ST Pitman

I've chosen Pitman purely because maynard looks like he is off in the summer - if maynard signed a contract, he'd be my first choice. But I dont see the sense in pissing off pitman to play a guy who isnt here long term.

I know Millen would never have the balls to drop maynard

[cityboy]

4-2-3-1 ala Espaňa.

Pitman/Maynard

Woolford - JCR - Albert

Cisse - Kilkenny

McGivern - Wilson - Carey - Spence

[mundz18]

How is that relevant? point is, were struggling because of our terrible transfer dealings in the summer.

Even though it is not at all relevant, I will answer your question.

GK James

DR Spence

DL McGivern

DC NEW SIGNING

DC Wilson

MC Cisse/Eliott

MC Kilkenny

MR Albert

ML JCR

ST Stead

ST Pitman

I've chosen Pitman purely because maynard looks like he is off in the summer - if maynard signed a contract, he'd be my first choice. But I dont see the sense in pissing off pitman to play a guy who isnt here long term.

I know Millen would never have the balls to drop maynard

Well you are in a tactics thread...

Anyway I was just curious to see your take on it, I agree with dropping Maynard due to the fact if he does go then we'll have to cope without him, and the next striker come in from out the cold.

[Monkeh]

How is that relevant? point is, were struggling because of our terrible transfer dealings in the summer.

Even though it is not at all relevant, I will answer your question.

GK James

DR Spence

DL McGivern

DC NEW SIGNING

DC Wilson

MC Cisse/Eliott

MC Kilkenny

MR Albert

ML JCR

ST Stead

ST Pitman

I've chosen Pitman purely because maynard looks like he is off in the summer - if maynard signed a contract, he'd be my first choice. But I dont see the sense in pissing off pitman to play a guy who isnt here long term.

I know Millen would never have the balls to drop maynard

put the signings issue aside, I think its a valid question,

Your made manager tomorrow and you've been told you have to work with what you got until jan,

What formation and players would you use?

I think thats what he's getting at Raiz

[foghornred]

Why does Millen revert to 4-4-2 when we are a goal down near the end ? Its because he needs a goal and he knows that he has more chance of getting one with 4-4-2 but dont

[foghornred]

Why does Millen revert to 4-4-2 when we are a goal down near the end ? Its because he needs a goal and he knows that he has more chance of getting one with 4-4-2 but dont

[Guest Syco]

it doesn't f ing work

4-5-1 a return of 1 win 2 draws and 4 losses with 3 goals scored and 9 against it doesnt bloody work

Elliot and skuse can't play together

maynard can't play up top on his own nether can pitman so that leaves the non goalscoring stead

none of the midfield will score or get forward often enough and we can't defend with it,

i can't see why some of you can't see this, looking at the f ing league table again and tell me 4-5-1 works

Thing is it is slowly starting to work. We can not play with 2 central midfielders with our current players.

So who would you play if you were leave out either Skuse or Elliot? They and JCR are the most experienced Championship players in midfield so please don't suggest that rookies Bolasie or Reid should be thrown in at the deep end. Its been pointed many times that Millen lacks the resources but the anti brigade poo poo that fact.

I do agree that Maynard as a lone striker at AG doesn't work but what other options are there? You say 4-5-1 doesn't work ( I assume you mean at AG), neither does 4-4-2. Keef reckons the 4-5-1 we all saw against Brighton was in fact 4-3-3. I'm not convinced about that. It definitely looked like Maynard was on his own up front.

It is a fluid formation and has the ability to morph in to others depending on attacking or defending situations and that is why so many managers are begining to use this system. A 4-4-2 is too ridged. It's either a 4-4-2 or a 4-2-4.

I'd go back to 4-4-2 with kilkenny and elliot in the middle (the only time we played 4-4-2 was against ipswich this season with skuse and elliot and we couldn't retain possession)

and go up to with Maynard/Pitman and Stead, JCR Left Wing Adomah Right wing,

Mclovin LB Carey CB Wilson CB Edwards RB

You can't play Kilkenny and Elliott in central midfield together simply because Kilkenny can't tackle. Elliott likes to get forward too much.

I dont think Keef planned to play 451 - if so why does he keep buying strikers and then play 1 up top?

Problem is, we never strengthened adequately at the back - it took keef a couple of games to notice this (even though it was obvious)

Having realised this - plus the fact he cant organise a team to defend - he decides to put as many players behind the ball as possible and stick our best striker up top - even though the role does not suit him (It suits Jon Stead)

Tatically Millen is poor - If you watched Brighton last night dominate the game versus Liverpool last night - you would have seen what an impact a good manager CAN make - especially when you consider they were in League One last season.

Millen cant organise a team - let alone get us to play the sort of football Brighton were playing!

He doesn't keep buying strikers. Taylor was a bargain to be had. I think we should however send him out on loan to a league one to get some games.

Keith tried all summer to get defenders in and i'm sure he is trying now. There is zero point in bringing someone in if they are not going to improve us. The players he went for all went to higher clubs.He has tried to improve us but because them players wont come here keith is being slated for it. I don't get that if i'm honest. In time with this formation we will be playing football like Brighton. A new system takes time. Just like it did with Johnson.

As I previously said yes this role would suit Stead but whilst Maynard is yet to sign a contract then he is basically being forced to play Maynard.

Millen has been most successful playing 3-5-2.....and i have to admit, I do like this formation. Used it myself when managing my local team and always liked the extra man it gave you in midfield.

The concerns I have with City is though....do we have the personel good enough to play wing backs? the obvious midfield triplet will be Kilkenny, Skuse and Elliott......real shame Cisse seems finished at City in my opinion.

4-3-3 doesnt work with City as we to often (maybe not intentionally) revert to 4-5-1.....

This formation is not much different to a 3-5-2, I have always liked a 3-5-2 but we do not have the players for it. If we were to play it then McGivern and either Spence or Albert would have to be dropped. Plus I don't think we have the defenders to play 3-5-2. Keiths signing suggest he has planned to play this system.

How is that relevant? point is, were struggling because of our terrible transfer dealings in the summer.

Even though it is not at all relevant, I will answer your question.

GK James

DR Spence

DL McGivern

DC NEW SIGNING

DC Wilson

MC Cisse/Eliott

MC Kilkenny

MR Albert

ML JCR

ST Stead

ST Pitman

I've chosen Pitman purely because maynard looks like he is off in the summer - if maynard signed a contract, he'd be my first choice. But I dont see the sense in pissing off pitman to play a guy who isnt here long term.

I know Millen would never have the balls to drop maynard

Again we with our players can not play a 4-4-2. Elliott and Kilkenny can not play together.

put the signings issue aside, I think its a valid question,

Your made manager tomorrow and you've been told you have to work with what you got until jan,

What formation and players would you use?

I think thats what he's getting at Raiz

My guess after a couple of games and seeing we can't play 4-4-2 no longer it would be a formation similar to the one we are employing.

In all my time as a City fan we have played 4-4-2 for the majority. I think Keith has upset the apple cart by changing the formation simply because it's not traditional to Bristol City and our fans don't take to change. I remember when we went to 4-4-1-1 under Johnson many complained about it.

[Guest Syco]

Why does Millen revert to 4-4-2 when we are a goal down near the end ? Its because he needs a goal and he knows that he has more chance of getting one with 4-4-2 but dont

I don't think we do change to a 4-4-2 I think we push forward more and it turns into an outright 4-3-3 in the traditional sense.

[mundz18]

In all fairness we tried 4-4-1-1 last season with Clarkson just behind Maynard, and it seemed to work until Clarkson was later dropped, but however you look at it it's still 4-5-1 with an attacking midfielder.

[Riaz]

Again we with our players can not play a 4-4-2. Elliott and Kilkenny can not play together.

Not with this manager in charge no - his teams are organised enough.

I dont see any reason why elliott and kilkenny cant play together?!

[Monkeh]

You can't play Kilkenny and Elliott in central midfield together simply because Kilkenny can't tackle. Elliott likes to get forward too much.

utter rubbish,

for a start we've not played 4-4-2 with elliot and kilkenny so how do you know if it doesn't work please explain,

Also our best performances and runs in the championship came with Johnson and Elliot together, remember according to some johnson can't pass only sideways can't tackle and can't head, your arguement for kilkenny is he can't tackle.....leeds fans says his strongest part is his tackle......hmmmmmmm

[The Bard]

I like 3-5-2 but it would mean dropping Albert as he's not a wing back,

James

Carey Wilson Spence

McLovin Riberio wing backs

Kilkenny JCR Elliot

Stead Maynard

I remember we played 3-4-3 at the beginning of the season before last. It got ditched despite us never losing with it. We played Haynes and clarkson behind Maynard up top - PNE away I think. Elliott and Hartley in midfield and Orr and Macallister as wing backs. The key difference is that the 2 strikers who support the one up top aren't stuck wide like in 4 5 1. The formation needs them to move around more, to get in the gap between midfield and the forwards because the side only has 2 central midfielders. That has been one of our key problems this season. It could give us the movement off the ball that Kilkenny needs for his passing ability to be effective. He is criticised in some quarters for passing the ball sideways, but this is because this it is his only realistic option to keep possession.

Albert doesn't need to be wide to be effective - he's not a great crosser of the ball. What he does is run at defences and cause problems. To balance it out, you need a striker with decent movement to get to support the main striker and Maynard can certainly do this. Teams would struggle to mark him if he was given more freedom. 3 at the back means less of a need for a defensive holding midfielder to protect. It would be the ideal basis to get the most out of Kilkenny and allow us to get Carey back in the side which we need for his personality and experience more than anything else.

James

Carey Wilson Nyatanga

Spence Kilkenny Elliott McGivern

Albert Maynard

Stead

[Monkeh]

I remember we played 3-4-3 at the beginning of the season before last. It got ditched despite us never losing with it. We played Haynes and clarkson behind Maynard up top - PNE away I think. Elliott and Hartley in midfield and Orr and Macallister as wing backs. The key difference is that the 2 strikers who support the one up top aren't stuck wide like in 4 5 1. The formation needs them to move around more, to get in the gap between midfield and the forwards because the side only has 2 central midfielders. That has been one of our key problems this season. It could give us the movement off the ball that Kilkenny needs for his passing ability to be effective. He is criticised in some quarters for passing the ball sideways, but this is because this it is his only realistic option to keep possession.

Albert doesn't need to be wide to be effective - he's not a great crosser of the ball. What he does is run at defences and cause problems. To balance it out, you need a striker with decent movement to get to support the main striker and Maynard can certainly do this. Teams would struggle to mark him if he was given more freedom. 3 at the back means less of a need for a defensive holding midfielder to protect. It would be the ideal basis to get the most out of Kilkenny and allow us to get Carey back in the side which we need for his personality and experience more than anything else.

James

Carey Wilson Nyatanga

Spence Kilkenny Elliott McGivern

Albert Maynard

Stead

never even considered that, two wide players in the four I would guess would have to be mobile wingback roles over lapping going forward and dropping in when defending?

[Guest Syco]

Not with this manager in charge no - his teams are organised enough.

I dont see any reason why elliott and kilkenny cant play together?!

With our defense to play a 4-4-2 we would need to play Cisse and Elliott. That would work but then Kilkenny does not fit in anywhere and Cisse is not on KM's plans.

utter rubbish,

for a start we've not played 4-4-2 with elliot and kilkenny so how do you know if it doesn't work please explain,

Also our best performances and runs in the championship came with Johnson and Elliot together, remember according to some johnson can't pass only sideways can't tackle and can't head, your arguement for kilkenny is he can't tackle.....leeds fans says his strongest part is his tackle......hmmmmmmm

At that time tho we had a better defense. Carey was in his prime and Fontaine and Vasko were in good form. From what I have seen of Kilkenny he can not tackle or doesn't go in for tackles. Don't judge players on what bitter Leeds fans say.

[Monkeh]

With our defense to play a 4-4-2 we would need to play Cisse and Elliott. That would work but then Kilkenny does not fit in anywhere and Cisse is not on KM's plans.

At that time tho we had a better defense. Carey was in his prime and Fontaine and Vasko were in good form. From what I have seen of Kilkenny he can not tackle or doesn't go in for tackles. Don't judge players on what bitter Leeds fans say.

no we never we had the same defense as we hae now

When all fit it will be McAllister (Same as back then) Carey (Same as back then) Fontaine (same as back then) and Spence who is on par with orr at best, oh and james who is a great keeper depending who you talk too,

Our problem is set peices and that for me is a coaching issue, it started to devlop under johnson and has got worse, I would wager of the 12 or so goals we have concided at least 9 are from set peices,

[Cornacix the Druid]

Originally put this on the wrong thread, but I'll put a spanner in the works by going:

4-1-3-2

spence, Wilson, Carey, McGivern.

Cisse

Elliot, Killkenny, Adomah

Maynard, Stead.

[mundz18]

If he does go 4-4-2, then drops Elliot and leave Skuse in midfield, then I'd be pissed...

[REDOXO]

A lot on this thread to think about, however 0 goals 0 wins 1point at home IS the vital statistic

KM has two options obviously...Stick to his guns and play Maynard in a one or go for change.

My feeling is the players and the fans need a lift and I would be looking at providing that by naming Bobby Reid in the 11. Nothing galvanizes like a young player coming through with all the enthusiasm that brings! Also we need that box to box engine that the kid will bring to the side

Please no abuse, but I would be inclined to play Stead and Pitman in attack and have Maynard on the bench. Both our number 2 and 3 striker have something to prove and I personally dont see that Nicky's head is completely right for the situation we are in..

Also in goal its close between James and Gerkin and lets face it our only win has been with Gerkin between the sticks, but this could go either way.

Thus my team would be

James/Gerkin

Spence

Wilson

McLovin

Adomah

Reid

Elliot

Killkenny

JCR

Stead

Pitman

Subs

Maynard

Carey

James/Gerkin

Skuse

Woolford

With Skuse and Carey on the bench we could change to a more orthadox 442 if necessary, however we will see!

[marmite]

Seems to me , reading this thread, that no one is sure of our best formation or selection. ( including KM and the players). I think that we need our creative player, i.e. Kilkenny in this case, Playing behind the front line instead of infront the back line. Otherwise we might as well have stuck with LJ in that role and saved Kilkennys tranfer money. Just my opinion but probably right!

[Guest Syco]

no we never we had the same defense as we hae now

When all fit it will be McAllister (Same as back then) Carey (Same as back then) Fontaine (same as back then) and Spence who is on par with orr at best, oh and james who is a great keeper depending who you talk too,

Our problem is set peices and that for me is a coaching issue, it started to devlop under johnson and has got worse, I would wager of the 12 or so goals we have concided at least 9 are from set peices,

No the defense was better back then and i'm sure most will agree. Carey is two years older now and past it. Fontaine is not the same now as he used to be

due to his ankle injury. McAlister is now also past it and can't stay fit for any long periods of time. McAlister I doubt will get back in the team once fit.

Do you honestly think during the week the players spend no time practicing set pieces?

[Monkeh]

No the defense was better back then and i'm sure most will agree. Carey is two years older now and past it. Fontaine is not the same now as he used to be

due to his ankle injury. McAlister is now also past it and can't stay fit for any long periods of time. McAlister I doubt will get back in the team once fit.

Do you honestly think during the week the players spend no time practicing set pieces?

I'm sure they do but somthing must be fundementally wrong with the coaching and training as the defense are making the same mistakes every week,

Take leeds second, I think thats the 6th time I've seen some one ghost in at the back post unmarked and score this season,

We are not learning and I do think its coaching thats the floor,

Now I want millen gone at the moment but I'm fickle enough to change my mind if results and or performances improve, but I really think we need to bring in a defensive coach from out side the club, non of this old boy rubbish but some one who has had no history at the club to shake things up,

[Guest Syco]

I'm sure they do but somthing must be fundementally wrong with the coaching and training as the defense are making the same mistakes every week,

Take leeds second, I think thats the 6th time I've seen some one ghost in at the back post unmarked and score this season,

We are not learning and I do think its coaching thats the floor,

Now I want millen gone at the moment but I'm fickle enough to change my mind if results and or performances improve, but I really think we need to bring in a defensive coach from out side the club, non of this old boy rubbish but some one who has had no history at the club to shake things up,

Considering Keith is a former decent defender I really can't see how the coaching is to blame. Our goals are conceded by players not picking players up. I believe that is the fault of not having a decent captain on the pitch. We need someone on the pitch that can direct and orgainise the team during set pieces and I don't think we currently have anyone able to do that in the whole squad.

[Andy082005]

Considering Keith is a former decent defender I really can't see how the coaching is to blame. Our goals are conceded by players not picking players up. I believe that is the fault of not having a decent captain on the pitch. We need someone on the pitch that can direct and orgainise the team during set pieces and I don't think we currently have anyone able to do that in the whole squad.

....maybe he shouldn't have give a contract to a player who is way passed it and disabled?

These players are professional footballers. Each and every one of them should no the basics when it comes to set pieces. For me, the fact we don't is a mixture of our players being average AND poor coaching.

Millen needs replacing. Ive said it before, it was Millen who said it last year when Coppell got the job. New faces from outside the club is good as it can bring new ideas to the table

[foghornred]

Why does Millen revert to 4-4-2 when we are a goal down near the end ? Its because he needs a goal and he knows that he has more chance of getting one with 4-4-2 but dont we need a goal just as much in the first minute as well as the last minute ?

Sorry about that as it was not finished,last time I post with my I Pod during my lunch half hour.

[Chivs]

Originally put this on the wrong thread, but I'll put a spanner in the works by going:

4-1-3-2

spence, Wilson, Carey, McGivern.

Cisse

Elliot, Killkenny, Adomah

Maynard, Stead.

Similar to my formation I mentioned here . Or for those who can't use links:

I'd play 4-4-2 because basically at this level it is the formation that English players are most comfortable with. I'd stick with the same back 5 as against Leeds. Yes, Spence has been poor in the last couple of games but Carey is no rightback and, if Hull have a left winger with any pace, we will be murdered on the left.

In midfield I would play Cisse in front of the back four and tell him to never be more than ten yards away from them.

I'd play Kilkenny further forward with JCR and Albert either side (and on an inspirational thought I'd perhaps switch JCR and Albert around a bit - coaches, who needs 'em).

Upfront I'd have Maynard and Stead.

[The Bard]

never even considered that, two wide players in the four I would guess would have to be mobile wingback roles over lapping going forward and dropping in when defending?

Basically yeah. If the manager wants to give the side a more attacking look, JCR or Woolford could play in one of the wing back roles. Doing something like this would be a huge gamble. If certain players bought into it, it could spark us off. If not, we could get a right pasting. We certainly have the players to play with a back 3.

[Guest Syco]

Basically yeah. If the manager wants to give the side a more attacking look, JCR or Woolford could play in one of the wing back roles. Doing something like this would be a huge gamble. If certain players bought into it, it could spark us off. If not, we could get a right pasting. We certainly have the players to play with a back 3.

I think a 3-5-2 would be less attacking than what we are playing now. Our wing backs would if playing against a 4-4-2 be doubled up by there full back and winger. It would for large parts either be a 3-5-2 or a 5-3-2. Our players that could play wing backs have not got the ability to get up and down and defend and attack for 90 mins. Get caught on the break like we are already prone to when our wing backs are forward and we will be torn apart down the wings with only 3 defenders instead of the standard 4. A 3-5-2 simply does not work in the english game because England does not produce the sort of players that are able to perform a variety of roles that is required from a wing back. They need to be able to get forward and be a threat on the byline, They need to provide crosses or though balls and also get back and tackle and man mark. Keith has already admitted we are unable to zonal mark. If we can't do that I doubt we can play 3-5-2 successfully.

[Guest Syco]

4-4-2 didn't really work for us did it?

[Guest AlwayBelieves]

Lets face it people.. We should have been 5-0 up but were very unlucky hitting the bar twice and their keeper being well simply outstanding. And the ONLY reason we lost is down to two keeper mistakes! And i know your gunna be like Well Millen picks Jamo, but the games prior to Reading Jamo has been class and i dont blame millen for keeping him in.. However i Guarantee Deano will be reinstated to the team.

One last thing people have been saying i dont care if we lose i just want to see entertaining football and us Attacking and actually testing their keeper. Well that what you got tuesday night! Atleats performances have been improving.. Leeds, hull, Brighton and reading have all been good performances!