Our Tactics

[Syco]

I have read a lot recently about our current formation/tactics. Recently Millen got a lot of stick for saying we got our tactics spot on against Brighton, I actually agree with him and I think we are very close to getting it right. I read many things saying Millen is tactically inept and doesn't have a clue because he is playing one up front especially at home, What would you say or think if I suggested we are setting up our formation just like Barcelona or Arsenal? Laugh in my face? Well that is exactly what I am suggesting and below I shall go in to more detail. Barca and Arsenal both play with one up front and are regarded as teh two most attractive and attacking teams on this planet on their day.

I'm not pretending to be a tactical genious but as I've taken a some coaching badges I have done much research on tactics formations etc so have a little knowledge on this subject. I also think our formation is more attacking than many percieve. On paper indeed it is a 4-5-1 but in reality it's a 4-1-2-2-1 That looks like this,

------------Maynard---------------

JCR-------------------------Adomah

------Skuse---------Elliott-------

-------------Kilkenny-------------

Mcgivern--Nyatanga--Wilson--Spence

-------------James----------------

A flat back four with the full backs given the freedom to get forward and support the attack, Kilkenny often gets slated for his sideways passes not enough goals etc but his purpose in the formation is to sit between midfield and defense, He's a deep playmaker and although his role may not to the fans seem important it is actually vital for this formation to work. He should be the starting point of all attacks and when he has the ball he should have at least 3 options to pass the ball.

Elliott is played as a box to box midfielder, He dashes forward and gets on the end of crosses plus he gets back to tackle etc. Skuse sits there in the middle and to me he is the weak link in this formation,

Skuse is good at tackling and that is it. If he improved his passing and crossing then he would do well in this role. But really we need another Elliott in this role.

The wingers are asked to bomb up and down and cut inside and either take a shot or lay it off for someone else.

The only role that baffles me is Maynards. I simply don't think he is suitable for this role. This role involves winning the ball and holding it up for a team mate, I think Stead would be more suited to this role but Maynard is defo not going to sign a contract whilst sat on the bench.

Many clubs are now using this formation or some variation of it as if you got the right players for it then it works incredibly well and I think that is our problem. Skuse nor Maynard fit this formation. Drop Maynard for Stead and bring in a box to box midfielder.

Our problem isn't the tactics nor the manager it's the personal available to the manager and their individual mistakes that our costing us.

When switching to a new system it always take a while for players to familiarise themselves with it, Ten, Fifteen and even 20 games it can take to take a hold and bear fruits.

Keith has obviously been planning this system for a while as can be seen by the signings he has made.

I for one have the uptmost respect for Keith for standing by this system despite critism from many. I am delighted he is changing our phlosiphy and I am extremely excited about this.

It would help Keith greatly if he came out and explained this system to the fans who many are stuck in the days of the 4-4-2 which is a dying formation. But if he did come out and explain the system then the opposition would be more aware of it.

As fans we just need to have patience and wait for this system to kick in. It will happen. Just takes time.

If we were truly playing 4-5-1 I would be the first to moan and groan. However it's a very modern take on the 4-5-1.

[Monkeh]

It doesnt work a return of 0 goas 0 wins 0entertainment is proof it doesn't

For a start something we found out 3 years ago alskuse and Elliot does not work in the last 5 years Johnson and Elliot was our most productive midfield pairing we should go with Kilkenny and Elliot

With stead and Maynard up top

[milo1111]

Cheers for that keef.

It's all about getting the best out of the players that are here to get results and entertain occassionally. Millen is failing badly at the moment with this.

[westonred]

Come on, our tatics clearly arn''t working as we are not creating chances or scoring goals !! We have only had 35 shots on target so far this season compared to Peterboroughs 74 Cardiffs 56 Millwalls 57 Boro's 57 Southamptons 53 the list goes on.

When we played Doncaster the other week we only had one shot on target the entire game, doe's that sound like we've got the tatics right ?

[foghornred]

Correct the formation can work with the right personal but our midfield just is not good enough,on Saturday at Leeds I saw Maynard making some great runs but we never had a player like Xavi or Iniesta at Barca or Wiltshire or Artera at Arsenal to play the correct ball through to him.

You have to play the formation that most suits your players and we don't have wingbacks or skillfull midfielders so lets play to our strengths and go 4-4-2 !

[mundz18]

Double post

[mundz18]

I don't see how 4-4-2 can work with the players we got,

can't play Kilkenny and a defensive midfielder because then were too deep and have no one to fill the gap between midfield and attack, as proved when playing against Swindon.

We could play Elliot and Kilkenny, but if

Elliot attacks and we get caught on the break then Kilkenny's going to get overun.

Could play Cisse and Elliot but then we haven't got any one that can make a pass over 5 yards.

IMO 3 centre midfielders is right if we dropped Skuse for Cisse. But it's getting the tactics right.

[ashtonphil]

I think it will be 4-42- on Saturday

James

Spence, Wilson, Nyatanga, McGivern

Albert, Eliot, Kilkenny,JCR

Stead, Maynard

[mundz18]

To be honest if Millen does go 4-4-2 then it means he's given in to peir pressure and because of that it means he really don't know what he's doing, thinks it's a case of dammed if he does, and dammed if he don't.

[Syco]

Correct the formation can work with the right personal but our midfield just is not good enough,on Saturday at Leeds I saw Maynard making some great runs but we never had a player like Xavi or Iniesta at Barca or Wiltshire or Artera at Arsenal to play the correct ball through to him.

You have to play the formation that most suits your players and we don't have wingbacks or skillfull midfielders so lets play to our strengths and go 4-4-2 !

As someone has said below the formation we are playing does suit our personal. 4-4-3 is simply not possible with our personal. I would put my neck on the line and say our performance and results would be far worse if we did play 4-4-2. As I previously said this formation can work and will work it just takes time. Skuse is the weak link in this formation and I think for it to work we need another Hartley.

[Pederho ll]

I'd drop Adomah and JCR and go 4-3-3

Maynard-Stead-Pitman

Cisse-Kilkenny-Elliot

McGivern-Wilson-Carey-Spence

Gerken

Just go for it and play all your best forwards and see what happens.

[mundz18]

I'd drop Adomah and JCR and go 4-3-3

Maynard-Stead-Pitman

Cisse-Kilkenny-Elliot

McGivern-Wilson-Carey-Spence

Gerken

Just go for it and play all your best forwards and see what happens.

See now I'd go for

Maynard. Stead. Adomah

Elliot

Kilkenny. Cisse

McGivern Nyatanga Wilson Spence

James

I don't see a problem with our defence, I just don't think our midfield is giving them much protection.

Attacking wise I think our wingers need to get closer to our striker and look for knock ons, which Stead can provide. With Elliot coming in from deep.

[ollywhyte]

Think we need to return to the basics for now and go for a simple 4-4-2.

James

Spence Wilson Fontaine McGivern

Adomah Kilkenny Elliott JCR/Bolasie?

Maynard Stead/Pitman/Taylor

Have no clue what the selection will be this weekend, but hope Bolasie is given a chance soon. Potential similar to Albert when he first arrived here, and if he can emulate half of what Albert has done it will be worth it. Worth a go imo.

[Syco]

Think we need to return to the basics for now and go for a simple 4-4-2.

James

Spence Wilson Fontaine McGivern

Adomah Kilkenny Elliott JCR/Bolasie?

Maynard Stead/Pitman/Taylor

Have no clue what the selection will be this weekend, but hope Bolasie is given a chance soon. Potential similar to Albert when he first arrived here, and if he can emulate half of what Albert has done it will be worth it. Worth a go imo.

IMO our current formation would work if JCR replaced Skuse and Bolasie played on the left. JCR would offer more attacking threat than Skuse and has the pace to work box to box. Skuse imo is a better RB than a midfielder.

[Monkeh]

IMO our current formation would work if JCR replaced Skuse and Bolasie played on the left. JCR would offer more attacking threat than Skuse and has the pace to work box to box. Skuse imo is a better RB than a midfielder.

it doesn't f ing work

4-5-1 a return of 1 win 2 draws and 4 losses with 3 goals scored and 9 against it doesnt bloody work

Elliot and skuse can't play together

maynard can't play up top on his own nether can pitman so that leaves the non goalscoring stead

none of the midfield will score or get forward often enough and we can't defend with it,

i can't see why some of you can't see this, looking at the f ing league table again and tell me 4-5-1 works

[mundz18]

it doesn't f ing work

4-5-1 a return of 1 win 2 draws and 4 losses with 3 goals scored and 9 against it doesnt bloody work

Elliot and skuse can't play together

maynard can't play up top on his own nether can pitman so that leaves the non goalscoring stead

none of the midfield will score or get forward often enough and we can't defend with it,

i can't see why some of you can't see this, looking at the f ing league table again and tell me 4-5-1 works

I get what your saying, but we've played 4-4-2 twice this season, Ipswich and Swindon.

The Swindon match being the worst I've ever seen us play, so I can't see how that's the answer either.

My arguments not the formation, it's the players used in the formation, same with 4-4-2 don't think we've got the players for this it to work.

[Robbored]

Elliot and skuse can't play together

maynard can't play up top on his own nether can pitman so that leaves the non goalscoring stead

none of the midfield will score or get forward often enough and we can't defend with it,

So who would you play if you were leave out either Skuse or Elliot? They and JCR are the most experienced Championship players in midfield so please don't suggest that rookies Bolasie or Reid should be thrown in at the deep end. Its been pointed many times that Millen lacks the resources but the anti brigade poo poo that fact.

I do agree that Maynard as a lone striker at AG doesn't work but what other options are there? You say 4-5-1 doesn't work ( I assume you mean at AG), neither does 4-4-2. Keef reckons the 4-5-1 we all saw against Brighton was in fact 4-3-3. I'm not convinced about that. It definitely looked like Maynard was on his own up front.

[Bored Dilemma]

Poor managers IMO harp on about formations - the need to over complicate the relatively simple was most eloquently put by Cloughie in football. If you're good enough we could play several formations and win. Intellectual Capital counts for little in football - it's about getting the best from your team. Transplanting your irrepressible will to win onto your charges and using everything within your grasp to get them playing at their peak. No one suggests it's easy - but a manager who openly states he just wants his players to be "happy" is troubling. That's not what he wants at all.

[Monkeh]

So who would you play if you were leave out either Skuse or Elliot? They and JCR are the most experienced Championship players in midfield so please don't suggest that rookies Bolasie or Reid should be thrown in at the deep end. Its been pointed many times that Millen lacks the resources but the anti brigade poo poo that fact.

I do agree that Maynard as a lone striker at AG doesn't work but what other options are there? You say 4-5-1 doesn't work ( I assume you mean at AG), neither does 4-4-2. Keef reckons the 4-5-1 we all saw against Brighton was in fact 4-3-3. I'm not convinced about that. It definitely looked like Maynard was on his own up front.

I'd go back to 4-4-2 with kilkenny and elliot in the middle (the only time we played 4-4-2 was against ipswich this season with skuse and elliot and we couldn't retain possession)

and go up to with Maynard/Pitman and Stead, JCR Left Wing Adomah Right wing,

Mclovin LB Carey CB Wilson CB Edwards RB

[Robbored]

I'd go back to 4-4-2 with kilkenny and elliot in the middle (the only time we played 4-4-2 was against ipswich this season with skuse and elliot and we couldn't retain possession)

and go up to with Maynard/Pitman and Stead, JCR Left Wing Adomah Right wing,

Mclovin LB Carey CB Wilson CB Edwards RB

I think that City were 4-4-2 at Cardiff as well and that along with the Ipswich loss meant 6 goals conceded when playing that formation.

Imo Millen hasn't had full confidence in his defence for ages and thats why he's adopted 5 across the midfield. The extra man (usually Kilkenny or Skuse) gives added protection but the price you pay is restricted quick attacking movement.

Personally I'd stick with 4-5-1 away but go either 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 at AG. Millen has to play two recognised strikers at home. Pick any two from three. Maynard, Pitman and Stead.

[Puckle_red]

Gerken;

Spence, Wilson, Nyatanga, McGivern;

Adomah, Kilkenny, Cisse, Bolasie;

Maynard Stead;

Subs; James, B.Reid, Carey, Pitman, Woolford

That would be my team and yes, I do realise there is no Marv, Skuse, Fontaine.

It's not hard. Only tough choice is between Pitman and Stead. Bobby Reid in the middle alongside Kilkenny would be my choice but we would then severely lack height.

[Riaz]

I dont think Keef planned to play 451 - if so why does he keep buying strikers and then play 1 up top?

Problem is, we never strengthened adequately at the back - it took keef a couple of games to notice this (even though it was obvious)

Having realised this - plus the fact he cant organise a team to defend - he decides to put as many players behind the ball as possible and stick our best striker up top - even though the role does not suit him (It suits Jon Stead)

Tatically Millen is poor - If you watched Brighton last night dominate the game versus Liverpool last night - you would have seen what an impact a good manager CAN make - especially when you consider they were in League One last season.

Millen cant organise a team - let alone get us to play the sort of football Brighton were playing!

[Monkeh]

I think that City were 4-4-2 at Cardiff as well and that along with the Ipswich loss meant 6 goals conceded when playing that formation.

Imo Millen hasn't had full confidence in his defence for ages and thats why he's adopted 5 across the midfield. The extra man (usually Kilkenny or Skuse) gives added protection but the price you pay is restricted quick attacking movement.

Personally I'd stick with 4-5-1 away but go either 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 at AG. Millen has to play two recognised strikers at home. Pick any two from three. Maynard, Pitman and Stead.

we played "4-3-3" with Kilkenny Skuse and Elliot in the middle and Albert Maynard and Pitman up front but it reverted to 4-5-1 with Albert on the right and Pitman on the left of midfield

[Andy082005]

I think that City were 4-4-2 at Cardiff as well and that along with the Ipswich loss meant 6 goals conceded when playing that formation.

Imo Millen hasn't had full confidence in his defence for ages and thats why he's adopted 5 across the midfield. The extra man (usually Kilkenny or Skuse) gives added protection but the price you pay is restricted quick attacking movement.

Personally I'd stick with 4-5-1 away but go either 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 at AG. Millen has to play two recognised strikers at home. Pick any two from three. Maynard, Pitman and Stead.

Millen has been most successful playing 3-5-2.....and i have to admit, I do like this formation. Used it myself when managing my local team and always liked the extra man it gave you in midfield.

The concerns I have with City is though....do we have the personel good enough to play wing backs? the obvious midfield triplet will be Kilkenny, Skuse and Elliott......real shame Cisse seems finished at City in my opinion.

4-3-3 doesnt work with City as we to often (maybe not intentionally) revert to 4-5-1.....

[Monkeh]

Millen has been most successful playing 3-5-2.....and i have to admit, I do like this formation. Used it myself when managing my local team and always liked the extra man it gave you in midfield.

The concerns I have with City is though....do we have the personel good enough to play wing backs? the obvious midfield triplet will be Kilkenny, Skuse and Elliott......real shame Cisse seems finished at City in my opinion.

4-3-3 doesnt work with City as we to often (maybe not intentionally) revert to 4-5-1.....

I like 3-5-2 but it would mean dropping Albert as he's not a wing back,

James

Carey Wilson Spence

McLovin Riberio wing backs

Kilkenny JCR Elliot

Stead Maynard

[Riaz]

Its so obvious that millen intended to play 442

If you play 451 - you have to drop maynard (pitman does not really fit in anywhere)

and if you play 3-5-2 you have to drop Albert

OUR BEST 2 PLAYERS.

and he cant play 442 because he is cant organise a team defensively and has'nt brought in a strong defender!

[mundz18]

Its so obvious that millen intended to play 442

If you play 451 - you have to drop maynard (pitman does not really fit in anywhere)

and if you play 3-5-2 you have to drop Albert

OUR BEST 2 PLAYERS.

and he cant play 442 because he is cant organise a team defensively and has'nt brought in a strong defender!

What would be you team and formation?

[Riaz]

What would be you team and formation?

How is that relevant? point is, were struggling because of our terrible transfer dealings in the summer.

Even though it is not at all relevant, I will answer your question.

GK James

DR Spence

DL McGivern

DC NEW SIGNING

DC Wilson

MC Cisse/Eliott

MC Kilkenny

MR Albert

ML JCR

ST Stead

ST Pitman

I've chosen Pitman purely because maynard looks like he is off in the summer - if maynard signed a contract, he'd be my first choice. But I dont see the sense in pissing off pitman to play a guy who isnt here long term.

I know Millen would never have the balls to drop maynard

[cityboy]

4-2-3-1 ala Espaňa.

Pitman/Maynard

Woolford - JCR - Albert

Cisse - Kilkenny

McGivern - Wilson - Carey - Spence

[mundz18]

How is that relevant? point is, were struggling because of our terrible transfer dealings in the summer.

Even though it is not at all relevant, I will answer your question.

GK James

DR Spence

DL McGivern

DC NEW SIGNING

DC Wilson

MC Cisse/Eliott

MC Kilkenny

MR Albert

ML JCR

ST Stead

ST Pitman

I've chosen Pitman purely because maynard looks like he is off in the summer - if maynard signed a contract, he'd be my first choice. But I dont see the sense in pissing off pitman to play a guy who isnt here long term.

I know Millen would never have the balls to drop maynard

Well you are in a tactics thread...

Anyway I was just curious to see your take on it, I agree with dropping Maynard due to the fact if he does go then we'll have to cope without him, and the next striker come in from out the cold.