Why The Hell Has He Not Been Sacked

[Fodbarmyarmy]

To go back to OP original question of "why has he not been sacked yet"

I guess the answer is because we have in charge people who know a hell of a lot more about football and running a club than the knee jerkers on this forum!

Thank god too!

[Nogbad the Bad]

If O'Driscoll is not a failure at this level, then why is Millen considered thus. City are above Doncaster in the table!!!!

O'Driscoll got a far smaller club, with far fewer resources than City promoted to the Championship.

He then proved himself by being competitive in this league for 2 seasons while playing excellent football and attaining very solid mid table finishes.

Last season he kept Doncaster up, against all the odds, despite being without 14 first team squad players for a long period. Some excused KM with our bad luck with injuries, Doncaster's was far worse and they couldn't bring in the likes of Pitman, Caulker and Spence to replace them.

This season he was replaced after the club were again devastated by early season injuries and he couldn't keep the near miraculous previous results going.

That's definitely not failure in my book, his reputation is intact and I'm sure his attributes will have been well noted and he'll return to football at a far bigger club than Doncaster.

[handsofclayOLD]

You make some good points Nogbad...more than Doncaster have acquired this season. But I beg to differ. For most of the points also relate to Millen (if one includes his tenure as number 2 to Johnson). In fact City were one game away under the Johnson/Millen axis from the Prem, Donny were about 46 games away from it under SOD. Indeed, I respect Millen as a man more; because when City were hit by horrendous injuries (at a time of massive upheaval due to Coppell's departure) Millen did not once bleat to the League about it, unlike O'Driscoll who wanted games for Donny postponed.

I recall when Jimmy Lumsden was sacked Chairman Kew being consoled by Roger Malone who said something along the lines that Lumsden was too quiet a personality to manage City. What I have seen of O'Driscoll (which isn't much which makes my point!!!) he has a similar reserved personality. It is my contention that any manager of Bristol City has to be somewhat outgoing. City fans expect their managers to communicate with them and the media. Not appeal to them in the prog not to ask him to give them a wave.

Incidentally, David James is on record as having said that he would involve the public possibly more than any previous manager ever has at any club. He believes in the community playing a strong role. He has also stated that being a goalkeeper will enable him to detach himself from the players under his command and concentrate upon implementing his strategies, while also applying man-management skills he has obtained from studying psychology etc. We had a previous international who did well with us having been given his first job in management here, Joe Jordan.

[handsofclayOLD]

Furthermore, City's two greatest managers, Thickett and Dicks, were given their first taste of management by Bristol City; so why should we go for other team's cast-offs? History proves that City's greatest managers were virgins as far as club management was concerned.

[bangers]

You make some good points Nogbad...more than Doncaster have acquired this season. But I beg to differ. For most of the points also relate to Millen (if one includes his tenure as number 2 to Johnson). In fact City were one game away under the Johnson/Millen axis from the Prem, Donny were about 46 games away from it under SOD. Indeed, I respect Millen as a man more; because when City were hit by horrendous injuries (at a time of massive upheaval due to Coppell's departure) Millen did not once bleat to the League about it, unlike O'Driscoll who wanted games for Donny postponed.

I recall when Jimmy Lumsden was sacked Chairman Kew being consoled by Roger Malone who said something along the lines that Lumsden was too quiet a personality to manage City. What I have seen of O'Driscoll (which isn't much which makes my point!!!) he has a similar reserved personality. It is my contention that any manager of Bristol City has to be somewhat outgoing. City fans expect their managers to communicate with them and the media. Not appeal to them in the prog not to ask him to give them a wave.

Incidentally, David James is on record as having said that he would involve the public possibly more than any previous manager ever has at any club. He believes in the community playing a strong role. He has also stated that being a goalkeeper will enable him to detach himself from the players under his command and concentrate upon implementing his strategies, while also applying man-management skills he has obtained from studying psychology etc. We had a previous international who did well with us having been given his first job in management here, Joe Jordan.

O'Driscoll was Burnleys number 1 choice when Coyle left....only reason he didnt go was cost of buying his contract out.....they were a Prem club at the time.

When Kean is sacked, do you think Millen will be Blackburns number 1?

O'Driscoll is in a league to Millen.

[semblar]

Better the devil you know equals relegation in our case.

It didn't last season, when the results to this point were remarkably similar, all told. Better the devil you know might equal relegation...we're all worried about the results so far. But so might a new broom sweeping clean.

[Robbored]

Why has he not been sacked?

Because its a huge gamble.

If he stays its a gamble whether City will stay in the championship or get out of trouble like last season.

If he goes its a gamble that a new manager won't be any more successful. We all know that changing managers is no guarantee that things will improve and yet some fans still see it as the right move.

Tough call for the board either way. Dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.

I've not even mentioned the financial fall out from sacking a manager.

[Riaz]

It didn't last season, when the results to this point were remarkably similar, all told. Better the devil you know might equal relegation...we're all worried about the results so far. But so might a new broom sweeping clean.

Difference is Millen brought in caulker and within a few games we look solid at the back....

So, unless millen finds a commanding centre back - a recurrence of last season is unlikely IMO

[BCAGFC]

Lee Johnson for manager.

BCAGFC

[Nogbad the Bad]

You make some good points Nogbad...more than Doncaster have acquired this season. But I beg to differ. For most of the points also relate to Millen (if one includes his tenure as number 2 to Johnson). In fact City were one game away under the Johnson/Millen axis from the Prem, Donny were about 46 games away from it under SOD. Indeed, I respect Millen as a man more; because when City were hit by horrendous injuries (at a time of massive upheaval due to Coppell's departure) Millen did not once bleat to the League about it, unlike O'Driscoll who wanted games for Donny postponed.

I recall when Jimmy Lumsden was sacked Chairman Kew being consoled by Roger Malone who said something along the lines that Lumsden was too quiet a personality to manage City. What I have seen of O'Driscoll (which isn't much which makes my point!!!) he has a similar reserved personality. It is my contention that any manager of Bristol City has to be somewhat outgoing. City fans expect their managers to communicate with them and the media. Not appeal to them in the prog not to ask him to give them a wave.

Incidentally, David James is on record as having said that he would involve the public possibly more than any previous manager ever has at any club. He believes in the community playing a strong role. He has also stated that being a goalkeeper will enable him to detach himself from the players under his command and concentrate upon implementing his strategies, while also applying man-management skills he has obtained from studying psychology etc. We had a previous international who did well with us having been given his first job in management here, Joe Jordan.

I wasn't persuaded by KM's caretaker stint - many of the players had clearly not been giving 100% for GJ so an upturn was not surprising and proved nothing. They were just happy he was gone and it showed immediately. Similar would have happened under any caretaker imo.

City didn't actually have 'horrendous injuries' at all last season compared to Doncaster - their's were on a different scale entirely. At City Maynard was replaced by Pitman, Caulker shored up the defence and was far better than any of the injured players, and Spence came in near the end and again impressed..We were able to go out and sign more than adequate replacements for injured personnel and never really had to field a severely weakened team. Doncaster had FOURTEEN players out, lacked City's resources to sign quality replacements, and therefore perhaps had good reason to seek a postponement. They really were down to bare bones, and for long periods.

I might agree about O'Driscoll's personality and he also has an annoying nasal Brummie voice that I personally find a bit irritating. But that's not the point here, he is a very good manager even if I wouldn't necessarily want him in charge at AG myself. I would agree an inspirational character with a larger, overt, personality would be ideally suited to Bristol City.

You make some interesting points about David James but he should not be considered for manager at the present time. City made a very bad mistake with KM by appointing from within and we cannot risk our Championship status with another novice, especially when the likes of Dave Jones are available.

Joe Jordan by the way was different altogether - he was already a cult figure amongst the fans and had real fire in his belly for Bristol City, exactly what we needed at the time. David James has not endeared himself to City fans in anything like a similar way and I imagine his elevation to the top job at AG would be met with horror and disbelief by many.

[Monkeh]

Difference is Millen brought in caulker and within a few games we look solid at the back....

So, unless millen finds a commanding centre back - a recurrence of last season is unlikely IMO

only after geoff twentyman told him too,

Geoff hasn't told him this season therefore we are crap at the back again

[Nogbad the Bad]

It didn't last season, when the results to this point were remarkably similar, all told. Better the devil you know might equal relegation...we're all worried about the results so far. But so might a new broom sweeping clean.

Apart from a couple of very good runs I thought last season was generally appalling.

[Riaz]

Why has he not been sacked?

Because its a huge gamble.

If he stays its a gamble whether City will stay in the championship or get out of trouble like last season.

If he goes its a gamble that a new manager won't be any more successful. We all know that changing managers is no guarantee that things will improve and yet some fans still see it as the right move.

Tough call for the board either way. Dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.

I've not even mentioned the financial fall out from sacking a manager.

Its a HUGE gamble if we keep him - we're going down.

We need to bring in a manager who will get the most of this squad. Because this squad is capable.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Why has he not been sacked?

Because its a huge gamble.

If he stays its a gamble whether City will stay in the championship or get out of trouble like last season.

If he goes its a gamble that a new manager won't be any more successful. We all know that changing managers is no guarantee that things will improve and yet some fans still see it as the right move.

Tough call for the board either way. Dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.

I've not even mentioned the financial fall out from sacking a manager.

It's not a huge gamble to change a failing manager.

It would be tantamount to a dereliction of duty not to.

Do you really think Keith Millen is a better manager, and more likely to be successful, than Dave Jones, for example?

[Robbored]

Its a HUGE gamble if we keep him - we're going down.

We need to bring in a manager who will get the most of this squad. Because this squad is capable.

What is it about the word 'gamble' that you don't understand?

Sacking Millen or keeping him is a gamble either way.

Millen was in a similar situation last season but still managed to reach 60 points. You reckon it was all down to Caulker but although he was impressive City were not a one man team.

You make it sound like its a dead cert that a new manager will bring success but it ain't a dead cert at all. Its a huge gamble. Surely you can see that?

[semblar]

Apart from a couple of very good runs I thought last season was generally appalling.

I would tend to agree - but the fact is we weren't relagated. My comment was more aimed at one of many assertions of future (and as-yet uncertain) events being facts. For some reason that kind of thing bugs me.... somebody asserting that "we will not go down FACT" would raise a similar response based in annoyance at least in part.

People were saying it was a certainty then, probably more are saying it's a certainty now. But the fact remains that we have only played 9 games of a 46 game season and so the end result can only be a matter for conjecture and opinion, not of recorded fact...

KM might turn things around (he did last season) and if a single loan signing is allegedly all it took then a single loan signing could be all it takes now. Or we could be adrift by Christmas. But the same is also true of a new manager - the end result of 2011-2012 could be relagation for a new manager too

None of us are happy with the results so far. For 70 minutes on Tuesday I was at least happy with the performance. If that can be replicated again then my opinion is that results will improve - but that's all it is. At the moment I'm not firmly in either camp, although the first part of Tuesday is probably enough in my mind to give the bloke a little longer at least.

One thing I am VERY glad of - with what is at stake, I am most certainly thankful that I don't have the decision to make - for both options have the potential to end in disaster, just as both could prove to be correct once we have hindsight to rely upon

[Super]

I would tend to agree - but the fact is we weren't relagated. My comment was more aimed at one of many assertions of future (and as-yet uncertain) events being facts. For some reason that kind of thing bugs me.... somebody asserting that "we will not go down FACT" would raise a similar response based in annoyance at least in part.

People were saying it was a certainty then, probably more are saying it's a certainty now. But the fact remains that we have only played 9 games of a 46 game season and so the end result can only be a matter for conjecture and opinion, not of recorded fact...

KM might turn things around (he did last season) and if a single loan signing is allegedly all it took then a single loan signing could be all it takes now. Or we could be adrift by Christmas. But the same is also true of a new manager - the end result of 2011-2012 could be relagation for a new manager too

None of us are happy with the results so far. For 70 minutes on Tuesday I was at least happy with the performance. If that can be replicated again then my opinion is that results will improve - but that's all it is. At the moment I'm not firmly in either camp, although the first part of Tuesday is probably enough in my mind to give the bloke a little longer at least.

One thing I am VERY glad of - with what is at stake, I am most certainly thankful that I don't have the decision to make - for both options have the potential to end in disaster, just as both could prove to be correct once we have hindsight to rely upon

just did the predictor for Oct (bored in work) have us 4th from bottom at the end of October.

[Puckle_red]

What is it about the word 'gamble' that you don't understand?

Sacking Millen or keeping him is a gamble either way.

Millen was in a similar situation last season but still managed to reach 60 points. You reckon it was all down to Caulker but although he was impressive City were not a one man team.

You make it sound like its a dead cert that a new manager will bring success but it ain't a dead cert at all. Its a huge gamble. Surely you can see that?

Agreed, It's a gamble, but we would have a greater chance with a manager who has a proven track record in this division - it is not certain we would even get out of the bottom 3 with a new manager but it's a lot more likely than with a broken management set up and club as a whole.

[SC_Red]

It's not a huge gamble to change a failing manager.

It would be tantamount to a dereliction of duty not to.

Do you really think Keith Millen is a better manager, and more likely to be successful, than Dave Jones, for example?

but surely you realise its not about whats best for BCFC its about robbored saving face.

he wanted Johnson to fail. He was wrong. Now he's nailed his colours to millens mast and needs him to succeed so he's right. If he's wrong again he'll look stupid again and he cant accept that in his own head.

If Millen goes expect robbored to be anti the new guy and if we go down he'll be on here telling us all he was right about Millen all along and we should of kept him. Thats how robbored works.

He doesnt care one way or the other so long as he's right which he rarely is

[handsofclayOLD]

Nogbad, I can't disagree with many of your points. You sound an intelligent type who has Bristol City's best interests at heart (in other words everything that bars you from ever becoming a director of the club). However, O'Driscoll did bleat on. Millen didn't. If I was in the trenches I would far more respect Millen for getting on with trying to shoot the enemy than SOD bleater who would no doubt attempt to approach the enemy with a white flag and offering a postponement of WWI until his fellow Brits could get back up to full strength and replace those who had fallen with a new bunch of bullet-fodder, I mean recruits.

Also you surely can't compare rookie Millen with David James. Hardly anyone had heard of Millen when he assumed the reigns, whereas David James is known throughout the football world. Mark my words, David James will be a success in football management. The guy is like a football equivalent of Stephen Fry. It's just a case of whether we want him to be a success with us or a success somewhere else. In your opinion the timing is not right for his appointment....but whenever is a timing right? Nine times out of ten teams are in the proverbial when they have to appoint a new manager. Some clubs are bold and imaginative; others cowering and conservative. Swindon made some bold appointments in the past, and their courage brought dividend. Unfortunately, with the exception of Thickett and Dicks, Jordan and Pat Beasley City have gone down the conservative route and boy have we paid for it.

Furthermore, not one person has wondered who David James would appoint as his number two. He would choose somebody with masses of experience in management, that can be assured, so that rather negates the 'no experience' argument. In fact I wouldn't mind SOD bleater down here as James' sidekick as James would channel him into doing what he's best at, which isn't dealing with the media, picking teams or instilling courage into his charges in moments of adversity. James is on great terms with Harry Redknapp and loads of other soccer luminaries. He'd get us out of this mire in next to no time.

[Riaz]

What is it about the word 'gamble' that you don't understand?

Sacking Millen or keeping him is a gamble either way.

Millen was in a similar situation last season but still managed to reach 60 points. You reckon it was all down to Caulker but although he was impressive City were not a one man team.

You make it sound like its a dead cert that a new manager will bring success but it ain't a dead cert at all. Its a huge gamble. Surely you can see that?

I understand the word gamble. But I dont think it is a gamble.

A new manager would give us a better chance of survival - of course, if we get the right man in.

With millen in charge, I can't see us gettting near 50 points.

[Robbored]

It's not a huge gamble to change a failing manager.

It would be tantamount to a dereliction of duty not to.

Do you really think Keith Millen is a better manager, and more likely to be successful, than Dave Jones, for example?

The question was ''why hasn't he been sacked?''

Put yourself in the place of the board. I can assure you that they will see keeping Millen ( who turned it around last season) or sacking him as a huge gamble either way. Its a very tough call. Ultimately it will come down to Steve Lansdown to make a decision. Stick or twist.

I like Dave Jones and he has a decent enough CV but even a manager such as him does not guarantee success. If they did appoint Jones or someone like him and City were still in the bottom three come New Year, what then? sack him as well, and go down the Rovers route?

Like I say, its a gamble either way and imo is the reason the board haven't acted yet.

[Monkeh]

but surely you realise its not about whats best for BCFC its about robbored saving face.

he wanted Johnson to fail. He was wrong. Now he's nailed his colours to millens mast and needs him to succeed so he's right. If he's wrong again he'll look stupid again and he cant accept that in his own head.

If Millen goes expect robbored to be anti the new guy and if we go down he'll be on here telling us all he was right about Millen all along and we should of kept him. Thats how robbored works.

He doesnt care one way or the other so long as he's right which he rarely is

Spot on

[handsofclayOLD]

Of course it is a gamble, you yourself admit it will be a success changing managers IF we get the right man in. Usually, we can only tell IF the right man was brought in with the benefit of hindsight. Unfortunately, when managers are interviewed the directors do not possess the benefit of hindsight. No matter how good a potential manager's CV is, he will only prove to be the right man if he gets results on the pitch. There is no guarantee a change of manager will bring success. Coppell was meant to be a great appointment. Going back many years so was Bob Houghton.

[Riaz]

Of course it is a gamble, you yourself admit it will be a success changing managers IF we get the right man in. Usually, we can only tell IF the right man was brought in with the benefit of hindsight. Unfortunately, when managers are interviewed the directors do not possess the benefit of hindsight. No matter how good a potential manager's CV is, he will only prove to be the right man if he gets results on the pitch. There is no guarantee a change of manager will bring success. Coppell was meant to be a great appointment. Going back many years so was Bob Houghton.

But if we are going to get relegated anyway - we might aswell attempt to do something.

[Robbored]

I understand the word gamble. But I dont think it is a gamble.

A new manager would give us a better chance of survival - of course, if we get the right man in.

With millen in charge, I can't see us getting near 50 points.

How can it not be a gamble?

You say a new manager will give us a better chance of survival but you can't guarantee that they would. Fact is no one can predict what will happen. A new manager might manage only 45 points and then City are well and truly back in the shite.

A gamble is when you act upon something when you don't know for sure what the outcome will be. That's exactly what keeping or sacking Millen would be. Like I say its a tough call.

[Riaz]

How can it not be a gamble?

You say a new manager will give us a better chance of survival but you can't guarantee that they would. Fact is no one can predict what will happen. A new manager might manage only 45 points and then City are well and truly back in the shite.

A gamble is when you act upon something when you don't know for sure what the outcome will be. That's exactly what keeping or sacking Millen would be. Like I say its a tough call.

Okay, lets all just sit back and enjoy our relegation campaign

While our "deep thinker" of a manager gets us deeper in the shit.

[Robbored]

Okay, lets all just sit back and enjoy our relegation campaign

I'm not suggesting inactivity from the board but it is a very difficult situation.

They need to do something. Either give Millen the resources he needs in terms of loan deals or replace him and give the new manager the same resources.

[handsofclayOLD]

I agree with you Riaz. But firstly, we don't know for deffo we will be relegated under Millen, and secondly we don't know that if we did change managers a new broom would sweep us to safety. I tend to think it would be best to instigate a change....or perhaps not rock the boat too much and have James as manager with Millen his number two, as they were both at Watford (although not at the same time).

The reason I came on here was because it seemed that most supporters were labouring under the assumption that a change of manager GUARANTEES an improvement in results and that's why it's best to cheer on Blackpool on Saturday as Millen will then get the sack. I tend to think we are going nowhere under Millen, but I know points are precious in our predicament SO I WILL NOT CHEER ANOTHER TEAM depriving us of points that could well prove valuable to us at the season's conclusion. Some on here have said they will support Blackpool against us because ultimately it will be best for the club. I just say, WILL IT? ARE YOU SURE?

[Riaz]

I'm not suggesting inactivity from the board but it is a very difficult situation.

They need to do something. Either give Millen the resources he needs in terms of loan deals or replace him and give the new manager the same resources.

Well, he's already squandered nearly 2 million quid and still has'nt solved any problems that existed 12 months ago.

So theres your answer.