Experience And "hasn't Done It At This Level"

[the1stknowle]

So just reading a few posts today, in nearly every thread a demand for "experience" is made.

Whilst I totally agree it can be something to weigh into the mix, for me it is not the be all and end all.

Peter Reid has experience and I'll be gutted if that is the type of appointment we make. Same Steve McClaren, Wilkins and Roy Keane whose recent records are dodgy. Paulo Sousa has done nothing for me to show either way that he is a good or bad manager. People reference swansea but all he did was take over Roberto Martinez's very good and fast improving team. QPR, Leceister??? Maybe he will be good. He certainly hasnt proven it. And his style of football was not the same as the way he played football.

I'd much rather the board spent a week talking to people in the game and analysing records AND crucially for me, looking at a manager that will fit our circumstances.

We can dream about SL suddenly throwing us 20million and appointing Di Matteo, Martin O'Neil or Curbs. Because realistically they won't come unless they are given a big wage and spending power - it would damage their reputation to under-perform with us so they would want guarantees. And could we really attract Di Matteo away from Chelsea???? It seems very unlikely.

As the stated aim is to move towards self-sufficiency, we can't be paying a manager 40k a week.

So Billy Davies and Dave Jones. Davies is a clear favourite for me purely on talent. Talk to florist, derby or preston fans. They love him. But wherever he has gone, he has sought conflict with the board and complained about funds. Why would that trait not continue here where there are already these problems?

We eulogise experience. That's what Norwich needed after their 7-1 hammering at Colchester. That's what Brighton needed after sinking into the League 1 relegation zone. Instead, their boards took counsel, looked at records and appointed bright young things in the game. This is my favoured option for us. Looking at them.

Lee Clark - almost certainly very good but he's only managed one club and they are one of the better resourced clubs in the division and he (bad luck I know) has yet to get them promoted. He buys and loans well and he talks well after games.

Karl Robinson, the same, although I think he needs more time to learn at one club. Think a lot of our fans wont have heard of him and thus would especially get on his back after first few defeats. We may not like that, but we all know what City fans are like.

Derek McInnes - Again, clearly very talented, can work on limited budget and has won a trophy. Has turned down other clubs. And Scottish - therefore for some strange reason, much more likely to be successful than any English manager!

Sean O Driscoll - hardly young but yet to have a job at a club he could take anywhere. I think he is clearly talented and Id have him here just so we could finally watch some football. Really fancy that he could use some of our ignored players like Ribs, Reid, Stewart and Cisse really well.

Mark Robins - young, talented, knows club a little, and I'd be happy with him. Decent record, again crucially at 2 different clubs. I accept he didnt pull up any trees at Barnsley but did what he had to do there.

Paul Tisdale - 6 promotions, no relegations in 10 years of management across 2 different clubs. Both small, yes. But done without spending, very highly rated in game. Has turned down other clubs. Compo would be relatively small. Would he come here? maybe not. But I hope we ask.

So if you put aside the "hasn't done it at this level" (which recent history shows not to be that important AND no one has done it at this level until they are given a chance at this level!) then experience pales in importance compared to talent. It's always going to be somewhat of a guess and sometimes faces dont fit. Any manager could fail. But for me, I'd like our board to prioritise talent, potential and style of football over experience or profile of playing career.

Tisdale for me by a mile, but I'll be happy with any of the names in my "young" managers list or DJ, BD and of course MoN or Curbs.

All of this is opinion and banter amongst fans and clearly we all have large differences of opinion. I'm amazed when people suggest Reid or Wilkins but I respect that is their view. And Im totally aware my little rant above will have convinced few that Tisdale or Clark are the men for City.

Ultimately it's down to the board and all I want is a considered look at records and recent performance (last few seasons before the anti-SoD band kick off) and to just make an appointment we can all get behind to take us into the new stadium.

Fingers crossed.

[Mr Mosquito]

So just reading a few posts today, in nearly every thread a demand for "experience" is made.

Whilst I totally agree it can be something to weigh into the mix, for me it is not the be all and end all.

Peter Reid has experience and I'll be gutted if that is the type of appointment we make. Same Steve McClaren, Wilkins and Roy Keane whose recent records are dodgy. Paulo Sousa has done nothing for me to show either way that he is a good or bad manager. People reference swansea but all he did was take over Roberto Martinez's very good and fast improving team. QPR, Leceister??? Maybe he will be good. He certainly hasnt proven it. And his style of football was not the same as the way he played football.

I'd much rather the board spent a week talking to people in the game and analysing records AND crucially for me, looking at a manager that will fit our circumstances.

We can dream about SL suddenly throwing us 20million and appointing Di Matteo, Martin O'Neil or Curbs. Because realistically they won't come unless they are given a big wage and spending power - it would damage their reputation to under-perform with us so they would want guarantees. And could we really attract Di Matteo away from Chelsea???? It seems very unlikely.

As the stated aim is to move towards self-sufficiency, we can't be paying a manager 40k a week.

So Billy Davies and Dave Jones. Davies is a clear favourite for me purely on talent. Talk to florist, derby or preston fans. They love him. But wherever he has gone, he has sought conflict with the board and complained about funds. Why would that trait not continue here where there are already these problems?

We eulogise experience. That's what Norwich needed after their 7-1 hammering at Colchester. That's what Brighton needed after sinking into the League 1 relegation zone. Instead, their boards took counsel, looked at records and appointed bright young things in the game. This is my favoured option for us. Looking at them.

Lee Clark - almost certainly very good but he's only managed one club and they are one of the better resourced clubs in the division and he (bad luck I know) has yet to get them promoted. He buys and loans well and he talks well after games.

Karl Robinson, the same, although I think he needs more time to learn at one club. Think a lot of our fans wont have heard of him and thus would especially get on his back after first few defeats. We may not like that, but we all know what City fans are like.

Derek McInnes - Again, clearly very talented, can work on limited budget and has won a trophy. Has turned down other clubs. And Scottish - therefore for some strange reason, much more likely to be successful than any English manager!

Sean O Driscoll - hardly young but yet to have a job at a club he could take anywhere. I think he is clearly talented and Id have him here just so we could finally watch some football. Really fancy that he could use some of our ignored players like Ribs, Reid, Stewart and Cisse really well.

Mark Robins - young, talented, knows club a little, and I'd be happy with him. Decent record, again crucially at 2 different clubs. I accept he didnt pull up any trees at Barnsley but did what he had to do there.

Paul Tisdale - 6 promotions, no relegations in 10 years of management across 2 different clubs. Both small, yes. But done without spending, very highly rated in game. Has turned down other clubs. Compo would be relatively small. Would he come here? maybe not. But I hope we ask.

So if you put aside the "hasn't done it at this level" (which recent history shows not to be that important AND no one has done it at this level until they are given a chance at this level!) then experience pales in importance compared to talent. It's always going to be somewhat of a guess and sometimes faces dont fit. Any manager could fail. But for me, I'd like our board to prioritise talent, potential and style of football over experience or profile of playing career.

Tisdale for me by a mile, but I'll be happy with any of the names in my "young" managers list or DJ, BD and of course MoN or Curbs.

All of this is opinion and banter amongst fans and clearly we all have large differences of opinion. I'm amazed when people suggest Reid or Wilkins but I respect that is their view. And Im totally aware my little rant above will have convinced few that Tisdale or Clark are the men for City.

Ultimately it's down to the board and all I want is a considered look at records and recent performance (last few seasons before the anti-SoD band kick off) and to just make an appointment we can all get behind to take us into the new stadium.

Fingers crossed.

That's an excellent post and very well written. Like you I'd like our board to prioritise talent, potential and style of football over experience or profile of playing career. Potential would be a priority for me - the potential to get this club back in the top flight and on a few long overdue decent cup runs.

[Dolman_Stand]

Difference being Norwich could afford to pay compo to Colchester and Brighton picked up Poyet for nothing I believe. All the managers listed above are currently employed and highly-rated, we would have to pay through the nose to tempt them and their respective clubs to part ways and with the decent level of unemployed managers available I don;t think we will go down this route. Billy Davies or alan Curbishley for me.

[Barrs Court Red]

Quality post.

Tisdale for me too based on what's out there, in it's no secret it may lead to substantial investment.....

So just reading a few posts today, in nearly every thread a demand for "experience" is made.

Whilst I totally agree it can be something to weigh into the mix, for me it is not the be all and end all.

Peter Reid has experience and I'll be gutted if that is the type of appointment we make. Same Steve McClaren, Wilkins and Roy Keane whose recent records are dodgy. Paulo Sousa has done nothing for me to show either way that he is a good or bad manager. People reference swansea but all he did was take over Roberto Martinez's very good and fast improving team. QPR, Leceister??? Maybe he will be good. He certainly hasnt proven it. And his style of football was not the same as the way he played football.

I'd much rather the board spent a week talking to people in the game and analysing records AND crucially for me, looking at a manager that will fit our circumstances.

We can dream about SL suddenly throwing us 20million and appointing Di Matteo, Martin O'Neil or Curbs. Because realistically they won't come unless they are given a big wage and spending power - it would damage their reputation to under-perform with us so they would want guarantees. And could we really attract Di Matteo away from Chelsea???? It seems very unlikely.

As the stated aim is to move towards self-sufficiency, we can't be paying a manager 40k a week.

So Billy Davies and Dave Jones. Davies is a clear favourite for me purely on talent. Talk to florist, derby or preston fans. They love him. But wherever he has gone, he has sought conflict with the board and complained about funds. Why would that trait not continue here where there are already these problems?

We eulogise experience. That's what Norwich needed after their 7-1 hammering at Colchester. That's what Brighton needed after sinking into the League 1 relegation zone. Instead, their boards took counsel, looked at records and appointed bright young things in the game. This is my favoured option for us. Looking at them.

Lee Clark - almost certainly very good but he's only managed one club and they are one of the better resourced clubs in the division and he (bad luck I know) has yet to get them promoted. He buys and loans well and he talks well after games.

Karl Robinson, the same, although I think he needs more time to learn at one club. Think a lot of our fans wont have heard of him and thus would especially get on his back after first few defeats. We may not like that, but we all know what City fans are like.

Derek McInnes - Again, clearly very talented, can work on limited budget and has won a trophy. Has turned down other clubs. And Scottish - therefore for some strange reason, much more likely to be successful than any English manager!

Sean O Driscoll - hardly young but yet to have a job at a club he could take anywhere. I think he is clearly talented and Id have him here just so we could finally watch some football. Really fancy that he could use some of our ignored players like Ribs, Reid, Stewart and Cisse really well.

Mark Robins - young, talented, knows club a little, and I'd be happy with him. Decent record, again crucially at 2 different clubs. I accept he didnt pull up any trees at Barnsley but did what he had to do there.

Paul Tisdale - 6 promotions, no relegations in 10 years of management across 2 different clubs. Both small, yes. But done without spending, very highly rated in game. Has turned down other clubs. Compo would be relatively small. Would he come here? maybe not. But I hope we ask.

So if you put aside the "hasn't done it at this level" (which recent history shows not to be that important AND no one has done it at this level until they are given a chance at this level!) then experience pales in importance compared to talent. It's always going to be somewhat of a guess and sometimes faces dont fit. Any manager could fail. But for me, I'd like our board to prioritise talent, potential and style of football over experience or profile of playing career.

Tisdale for me by a mile, but I'll be happy with any of the names in my "young" managers list or DJ, BD and of course MoN or Curbs.

All of this is opinion and banter amongst fans and clearly we all have large differences of opinion. I'm amazed when people suggest Reid or Wilkins but I respect that is their view. And Im totally aware my little rant above will have convinced few that Tisdale or Clark are the men for City.

Ultimately it's down to the board and all I want is a considered look at records and recent performance (last few seasons before the anti-SoD band kick off) and to just make an appointment we can all get behind to take us into the new stadium.

Fingers crossed.

[Nibor]

So just reading a few posts today, in nearly every thread a demand for "experience" is made.

Whilst I totally agree it can be something to weigh into the mix, for me it is not the be all and end all.

Peter Reid has experience and I'll be gutted if that is the type of appointment we make. Same Steve McClaren, Wilkins and Roy Keane whose recent records are dodgy. Paulo Sousa has done nothing for me to show either way that he is a good or bad manager. People reference swansea but all he did was take over Roberto Martinez's very good and fast improving team. QPR, Leceister??? Maybe he will be good. He certainly hasnt proven it. And his style of football was not the same as the way he played football.

I'd much rather the board spent a week talking to people in the game and analysing records AND crucially for me, looking at a manager that will fit our circumstances.

We can dream about SL suddenly throwing us 20million and appointing Di Matteo, Martin O'Neil or Curbs. Because realistically they won't come unless they are given a big wage and spending power - it would damage their reputation to under-perform with us so they would want guarantees. And could we really attract Di Matteo away from Chelsea???? It seems very unlikely.

As the stated aim is to move towards self-sufficiency, we can't be paying a manager 40k a week.

So Billy Davies and Dave Jones. Davies is a clear favourite for me purely on talent. Talk to florist, derby or preston fans. They love him. But wherever he has gone, he has sought conflict with the board and complained about funds. Why would that trait not continue here where there are already these problems?

We eulogise experience. That's what Norwich needed after their 7-1 hammering at Colchester. That's what Brighton needed after sinking into the League 1 relegation zone. Instead, their boards took counsel, looked at records and appointed bright young things in the game. This is my favoured option for us. Looking at them.

Lee Clark - almost certainly very good but he's only managed one club and they are one of the better resourced clubs in the division and he (bad luck I know) has yet to get them promoted. He buys and loans well and he talks well after games.

Karl Robinson, the same, although I think he needs more time to learn at one club. Think a lot of our fans wont have heard of him and thus would especially get on his back after first few defeats. We may not like that, but we all know what City fans are like.

Derek McInnes - Again, clearly very talented, can work on limited budget and has won a trophy. Has turned down other clubs. And Scottish - therefore for some strange reason, much more likely to be successful than any English manager!

Sean O Driscoll - hardly young but yet to have a job at a club he could take anywhere. I think he is clearly talented and Id have him here just so we could finally watch some football. Really fancy that he could use some of our ignored players like Ribs, Reid, Stewart and Cisse really well.

Mark Robins - young, talented, knows club a little, and I'd be happy with him. Decent record, again crucially at 2 different clubs. I accept he didnt pull up any trees at Barnsley but did what he had to do there.

Paul Tisdale - 6 promotions, no relegations in 10 years of management across 2 different clubs. Both small, yes. But done without spending, very highly rated in game. Has turned down other clubs. Compo would be relatively small. Would he come here? maybe not. But I hope we ask.

So if you put aside the "hasn't done it at this level" (which recent history shows not to be that important AND no one has done it at this level until they are given a chance at this level!) then experience pales in importance compared to talent. It's always going to be somewhat of a guess and sometimes faces dont fit. Any manager could fail. But for me, I'd like our board to prioritise talent, potential and style of football over experience or profile of playing career.

Tisdale for me by a mile, but I'll be happy with any of the names in my "young" managers list or DJ, BD and of course MoN or Curbs.

All of this is opinion and banter amongst fans and clearly we all have large differences of opinion. I'm amazed when people suggest Reid or Wilkins but I respect that is their view. And Im totally aware my little rant above will have convinced few that Tisdale or Clark are the men for City.

Ultimately it's down to the board and all I want is a considered look at records and recent performance (last few seasons before the anti-SoD band kick off) and to just make an appointment we can all get behind to take us into the new stadium.

Fingers crossed.

Very good post and I tend to agree with the sentiments. I think we need a manager who's on the way up, not already gone as far as they can and not one living on past glory.

Tisdale would be fine with me.

[the1stknowle]

Difference being Norwich could afford to pay compo to Colchester and Brighton picked up Poyet for nothing I believe. All the managers listed above are currently employed and highly-rated, we would have to pay through the nose to tempt them and their respective clubs to part ways and with the decent level of unemployed managers available I don;t think we will go down this route. Billy Davies or alan Curbishley for me.

Difference between Norwich and Brighton? Or difference between them and us? Comp to Colchester was half a million quid and that was only because Norwich tried to break the rules rather than settling up front.

Lee Clark Im pretty sure would cost a fortune and so is out. Possibly Robinson too. Exeter or St Johnston would probably only be able to get 100-200k if the manager wanted to come. Well within reach.

SoD, Robins, DJ, BD, MoN and Curbs not currently employed. They might be on "gardening leave" but all this means is the are getting money until someone employs them. And I presume they eventually want to be employed rather than see out their contracts on gardening leave. Compensation isnt due when someone is on "gardening leave".

Point I'd make is that with the bigger name managers - the fact we didnt pay any compensation will be outweighed in about 3 or 4 months of their higher wages. Its a package. And the total package for employing MoN for a few months vs Tisdale or McInnes for a few months plus their compensation will be about the same. And after that...

BTW - im guessing Mcinnes odds have shortened as a few bets have been placed on him and he is linked with pretty much every championship job available, hence the betting.

[Mr Mosquito]

Very good post and I tend to agree with the sentiments. I think we need a manager who's on the way up, not already gone as far as they can and not one living on past glory.

Tisdale would be fine with me.

Tisdale has played for this football club and been a successful manager at the lower levels in the West Country. At 38, would he have the necessary command of some of the errant players that we seem to have at this football club? I get the idea that a few of our players intentionally cocked things up for MIllen.

[bearded_red]

So just reading a few posts today, in nearly every thread a demand for "experience" is made.

Whilst I totally agree it can be something to weigh into the mix, for me it is not the be all and end all.

Peter Reid has experience and I'll be gutted if that is the type of appointment we make. Same Steve McClaren, Wilkins and Roy Keane whose recent records are dodgy. Paulo Sousa has done nothing for me to show either way that he is a good or bad manager. People reference swansea but all he did was take over Roberto Martinez's very good and fast improving team. QPR, Leceister??? Maybe he will be good. He certainly hasnt proven it. And his style of football was not the same as the way he played football.

I'd much rather the board spent a week talking to people in the game and analysing records AND crucially for me, looking at a manager that will fit our circumstances.

We can dream about SL suddenly throwing us 20million and appointing Di Matteo, Martin O'Neil or Curbs. Because realistically they won't come unless they are given a big wage and spending power - it would damage their reputation to under-perform with us so they would want guarantees. And could we really attract Di Matteo away from Chelsea???? It seems very unlikely.

As the stated aim is to move towards self-sufficiency, we can't be paying a manager 40k a week.

So Billy Davies and Dave Jones. Davies is a clear favourite for me purely on talent. Talk to florist, derby or preston fans. They love him. But wherever he has gone, he has sought conflict with the board and complained about funds. Why would that trait not continue here where there are already these problems?

We eulogise experience. That's what Norwich needed after their 7-1 hammering at Colchester. That's what Brighton needed after sinking into the League 1 relegation zone. Instead, their boards took counsel, looked at records and appointed bright young things in the game. This is my favoured option for us. Looking at them.

Lee Clark - almost certainly very good but he's only managed one club and they are one of the better resourced clubs in the division and he (bad luck I know) has yet to get them promoted. He buys and loans well and he talks well after games.

Karl Robinson, the same, although I think he needs more time to learn at one club. Think a lot of our fans wont have heard of him and thus would especially get on his back after first few defeats. We may not like that, but we all know what City fans are like.

Derek McInnes - Again, clearly very talented, can work on limited budget and has won a trophy. Has turned down other clubs. And Scottish - therefore for some strange reason, much more likely to be successful than any English manager!

Sean O Driscoll - hardly young but yet to have a job at a club he could take anywhere. I think he is clearly talented and Id have him here just so we could finally watch some football. Really fancy that he could use some of our ignored players like Ribs, Reid, Stewart and Cisse really well.

Mark Robins - young, talented, knows club a little, and I'd be happy with him. Decent record, again crucially at 2 different clubs. I accept he didnt pull up any trees at Barnsley but did what he had to do there.

Paul Tisdale - 6 promotions, no relegations in 10 years of management across 2 different clubs. Both small, yes. But done without spending, very highly rated in game. Has turned down other clubs. Compo would be relatively small. Would he come here? maybe not. But I hope we ask.

So if you put aside the "hasn't done it at this level" (which recent history shows not to be that important AND no one has done it at this level until they are given a chance at this level!) then experience pales in importance compared to talent. It's always going to be somewhat of a guess and sometimes faces dont fit. Any manager could fail. But for me, I'd like our board to prioritise talent, potential and style of football over experience or profile of playing career.

Tisdale for me by a mile, but I'll be happy with any of the names in my "young" managers list or DJ, BD and of course MoN or Curbs.

All of this is opinion and banter amongst fans and clearly we all have large differences of opinion. I'm amazed when people suggest Reid or Wilkins but I respect that is their view. And Im totally aware my little rant above will have convinced few that Tisdale or Clark are the men for City.

Ultimately it's down to the board and all I want is a considered look at records and recent performance (last few seasons before the anti-SoD band kick off) and to just make an appointment we can all get behind to take us into the new stadium.

Fingers crossed.

Absolutely top post. Probably the most sensible and mature view I have seen expressed on here in a long, long time.

[Mr Mosquito]

Absolutely top post. Probably the most sensible and mature view I have seen expressed on here in a long, long time.

I hope Steve Lansdown and Colin Sexstone get to read that post because it's very thought provoking.

[the1stknowle]

Definitely a lot of different opinions on the forum, a lot Id be happy with, some I just can't understand.

Just want the city board to take a proper, considered approach. Look at leagues we havent even thought of. Not dismiss people with an incredible record of overachieement because they havent heard of them or because the last 6 games havent gone so well for them. Consider our circumstances and compare that with the candidates history and personality.

And then make an appointment. That process need only take a week or so, so new manager will still have a week to look at the squad, including the outcasts, and decide who they rate and how they can build the team.

It's exciting times I think which we havent had for a while. Even if its only 6 months grace period, a new manager we can all unite behind will be a refreshing change so whoever gets the job, would be nice to think supporters will give them a fair crack of the whip.

[redcherryberry]

Top post.

I myself and 4 others want Tisdale too.

He's the man the likes of Swansea, Brighton and Soton all approached before appointing their current managers.

Wasnt the right time for Tis then which he later admitted. I have it on good authority after running his course at Exeter he would come here?!

He's worked wonders down their with no money and always forced to sell his best players. Play's the right way and apparently a very good man manager.

All managers are gamble i just hope we take one with Tisdale. Dont want someone washed up like Jones, Davis etc. A fresh approach is needed.

If he was to come here expect him to bring Steve Perryman (DOF), Rob Edwards (Assistant), Marcus Stewart (coach) and Andy Tilson (coach).

[pride of the west]

With poyet and lambert they both got promoted to championship and were with clubs on a good budget riding the crest of the wave.

Weve had that time and our bubble burst.

If tisdale and clark get promoted this yr and are given the same budget as norwich had and brighton had, as did we, then id expect them to emulate what all 3 of us have/are doing.

It will be different them coming to us on a low where alot of building is needed. All 4 managers mentioned havnt been in the situation we are in now so whos to say they would do any good here?

[BCFC_Dan]

I'd be strongly in favour of a "potential" appointment such as Tisdale or O'Driscoll were it not for the fact that we're really not in a position to gamble.

Long-term they'd be the best choice I think but short term we need someone to pick the players up and make sure we stay in the division. Tisdale is unproven at this level and his team is currently in the league one relegation zone, whilst O'Driscoll's team was, until he left, the only one worse than our own in the Championship. They might have talent and potential but they're more of a gamble than, say, Dave Jones or Billy Davies.

I'm not advocating getting someone in just for 10 months as that sort of short-termism never matters but if Jones or Davies can turn City into a top-half side then we can think about getting someone in to take them a step further.

[the1stknowle]

With poyet and lambert they both got promoted to championship and were with clubs on a good budget riding the crest of the wave.

Weve had that time and our bubble burst.

If tisdale and clark get promoted this yr and are given the same budget as norwich had and brighton had, as did we, then id expect them to emulate what all 3 of us have/are doing.

It will be different them coming to us on a low where alot of building is needed. All 4 managers mentioned havnt been in the situation we are in now so whos to say they would do any good here?

No one is to say they'd be any good. But I think you're trying to be too analogous.

The situations dont have to be exactly the same for everything to work exactly the same. What I think the boards at Norwich and Brighton did is look for talent. For a while, people had been talking about Poyet and how success at leeds and swindon for Dennis Wise was really down to him. And as soon as he went, Leeds went to the dogs.

Lambert similarly built up a strong reputation at wycombe and colchester (despite a career failure when younger at livingston). The common factor is they looked for talent. And it paid off.

Im sure equally you could find examples of it not working if you really want to. But equally you could find examples of clubs stagnating because their boards appointed a name or just grabbed someone off the merrygoround.

We're only 10 games into a season. And I think some of our recent performances for large chunks of games show the situation isnt so terrible. We have the players to be mid-table at least. I just want us to get in a manager to take us forward and with our financial circumstances, I think that means a lower league manager proven to work on a budget and overachieve. Tisdale for me couldnt have done much more.

[Harry]

Top post and totally agree. I posted something similar last night before all of the hoo-ha!

"I too am of the persuasion that we should try something new and different. I don't buy into all this opinion stating that we have to get someone in who has experience managing in the Championship. Yes,the likes of Billy Davies and Dave Jones have had a modicum of success at this level, but that doesn't guarantee them being a shoe-in for the job nor that they will be a success for us. There are plenty of examples of managers with no experience at this level being successful, it is not a pre-requisite that to be successful in this league you need to have managed in it before. I want us to be courageous and do something different.

Moyes was new to the job when he made his name at Preston. Mowbray hadn't managed in England before he had success with West Brom in this league. Owen Coyle had no management experience at this level before he took Burnley up. Others such as Eddie Howe, Nigel Clough, Dougie Freedman, Gus Poyet all had no experience at this level before being appointed by their respective clubs and they all seem to be doing fine. Lee Clark and Di Canio have been mentioned by some people as success stories, but again, they've no Championship experience at management level.

So I simply don't believe in the argument that we need someone who has experience at this level. I think this is clouding a lot of people's judgement and they only see Davies and Jones as the potential answer because of this reason alone.

Now, unless Lansdown/Sexstone (whoever is in charge of this decision!) have an amazing candidate in mind who is currently employed, whom they wish to approach, then they should absolutely never appoint someone like Jones or Davies without going through a proper application process. I do not want us to offer the job to either of these without first opening up to applications. See what comes in, there may be some surprising names out there who we didn't think would be interested (perhaps your likes of Hoddle, O'Neill, Curbishley etc might actually chuck their name into the hat). You never know, they may all think they've been out of work for long enough and might be up for the challenge. We should at least open up to applications just in case something like this crops up. I do not want us to employ Jones or Davies just on the basis that they've worked in this league before and they are available. That to me is not a proper selection process, but again would be a knee-jerk reaction. I want the next appointment to be carefully considered. It should be someone who will take hold and rebuild this club from top to bottom. Yes the immediate priority is to ensure our safety, but I think pretty much any of the names mentioned here in the last few weeks will be capable of that - reason being that I firmly believe most of the squad are good enough, but they're not being managed or motivated correctly.

Whoever the appointment is, I believe they'll have every chance of keeping us in this league. So we need someone who will have enough nous about them to keep us up and then to begin the revolution of the club at the end of the season (with so many contracts up for renewal it will be a huge summer in 2012).

Someone like Jim McIntyre up at Dunfermline. He's very well respected up there, taking them back into the premier league and doing it with courage in his decisions, he's learnt from his mistakes, he's prepared to mix things about, he can make tactical changes during a match dependent on the circumstances.

Alternatively, someone like Andreas Alm at AIK Stockholm. Rapidly building a name for himself and someone who a Swedish friend of mine firmly believes will manage in the Premier League.

These should be the sort of candidates we're looking at, people who are making a success of themselves at present and who are widely respected and tipped for future success. I really hope our net is being cast a whole lot wider than Jones & Davies. Please. Hopefully there are people in charge of our club who have a wider understanding of world football than just looking at the latest unemployed Championship managers. There is a whole world of widely respected and up and coming coaches/managers out there, I hope we have someone on our board looking into these alternatives."

I'd add Tisdale and McInnes to my wanted list - I really don't feel the Davies / Jones route will be the right one for the future of our club.

[pride of the west]

I agree with you and have had my eye on clark for over year. I just think the situation we are in now is alien to what he and tisdale has experienced thus far and may be a gamble at this time the board arnt prepared to take.

I too believe we need to apoint an up and coming manager but one with contacts. Thats why i choose clark ove tisdale. Tisdale seems too insular although i may be wrong.

Ive just got a nagging feeling the board will go for the safe option in their eyes and not really take any chances. Altohough saying that the boardcmembers seem pretty young so may go for the more cosmopolitan choice.

Stressful couple of weeks ahead.

[Mr Mosquito]

Top post.

I myself and 4 others want Tisdale too.

He's the man the likes of Swansea, Brighton and Soton all approached before appointing their current managers.

Wasnt the right time for Tis then which he later admitted. I have it on good authority after running his course at Exeter he would come here?!

He's worked wonders down their with no money and always forced to sell his best players. Play's the right way and apparently a very good man manager.

All managers are gamble i just hope we take one with Tisdale. Dont want someone washed up like Jones, Davis etc. A fresh approach is needed.

If he was to come here expect him to bring Steve Perryman (DOF), Rob Edwards (Assistant), Marcus Stewart (coach) and Andy Tilson (coach).

If Tisdale was to come here with Steve Perryman (DOF), Rob Edwards (Assistant), Marcus Stewart (coach) and Andy Tilson (coach) we'll play some attractive attacking football - no doubt about that. Steve Perryman is a very big name in English football - no doubt about that.

[Brizzle Jordan]

I'd go for McInnes from that list, failing that Paul Tisdale then Mark Robins. All three of them are talented managers and i would have no complaints.

[beaverface]

Maybe someone can this for me, does Tisdale play the long ball game?

I think that's been our downfall over the last few seasons, we struggle to hold the ball, wear ourselves out by chasing the opposition and eventually concede late goals.

It appears as though teams in this division are gradually moving towards possession football and we're struggling to compete with it.

Wouldn't it be nice if we had a side that once had a lead, could hold the ball and see out a game without the Alamo towards our goal !!?

[Mr Mosquito]

Maybe someone can this for me, does Tisdale play the long ball game?

I think that's been our downfall over the last few seasons, we struggle to hold the ball, wear ourselves out by chasing the opposition and eventually concede late goals.

It appears as though teams in this division are gradually moving towards possession football and we're struggling to compete with it.

Wouldn't it be nice if we had a side that once had a lead, could hold the ball and see out a game without the Alamo towards our goal !!?

I haven't seen Tisdale's Exeter City play but with Steve Perryman as their director of football I'd be astounded if they play a long ball game. The Spurs sides that Steve Perryman played in against us were top notch footballing sides and a delight to watch - even though the last time I last saw them play us was when we lost 1-3 to them at Ashton Gate circa 1979.

[redcherryberry]

Tisdale play's football the way it should be - attacking & attractive.

Ryan Harley was the shinning star for him a couple of years ago which got his move to Swansea/Brighton.

He wouldnt of been the star in a team that play's long ball or anything ugly/negative.

TISDALE IN!

[the1stknowle]

Maybe someone can this for me, does Tisdale play the long ball game?

I think that's been our downfall over the last few seasons, we struggle to hold the ball, wear ourselves out by chasing the opposition and eventually concede late goals.

It appears as though teams in this division are gradually moving towards possession football and we're struggling to compete with it.

Wouldn't it be nice if we had a side that once had a lead, could hold the ball and see out a game without the Alamo towards our goal !!?

They certainly dont play long ball but as you'll remember from our many years in that league, no teams there can be accused of playing nice football.

If quality of football is the main criterion then SoD has to be the man. We've all seen his Doncaster sides over the last 4 years and they can hold the ball. He'd also bring players in based on technical ability int he same way Poyet and Rodgers do.

Tisdale certainly talks a lot about playing football, but all managers do. So its a case of getting one in and hoping. Bringing Bobby Reid and Ribs (injury allowing) into the side will help. Maybe even Clarkson as a midfielder. You can't pass if you dont have the players.

I agree though that under Keith it's the worst standard and least ambitious style of football Ive seen since Pulis. I remember the QPR game last year when we took the lead earlyish and then changed things to park a bus. That was pretty sad to see. So also agreed, it would be nice to see some attacking football at the Gate.

McInnes' St Johnston certainly have a reputation for trying to play as much as is possible in the SPL.

Not sure any of that helps.

[Bris Red]

Yup im firmly in the Tisdale in camp aswell. Top manager who would i think jump at the chance to come to a club like this in the Championship.

First post sums up my thoughts on big named managers aswell. Usually the type's that demand big money to spend, something we dont have at the moment.

[Pederho ll]

I can tell you one thing for fact, BCFC held discussions with Tisdale at the time Coppell was appointed. So he is highly regarded within our club. He also lives locally, so another plus point.

However, Tisdale did not have a happy time as a player at BCFC. It looked like he would have a very successful playing career, yet upon joining BCFC certain promises were broken and his career fell away. He therefore has little love for our club.

All of the aforementioned would need to be placed well and truly in the past were he to take on this role.

I for one think he would be a good choice. He is very level headed and actually for a relatively young manager, commands respect.

Both Watford and Reading have tried to secure his services in recent years.

He hadn't got the experience at this level, but he clearly knows how to manage. It might just be his time to step up a grade.

[Nibor]

Tisdale has played for this football club and been a successful manager at the lower levels in the West Country. At 38, would he have the necessary command of some of the errant players that we seem to have at this football club? I get the idea that a few of our players intentionally cocked things up for MIllen.

I don't think age matters really. You're either a leader or you're not. The idea of a disciplinarian is rather dated IMO.

Tisdale's record suggests he's a leader, you can't really pick much more up without talking to him.

[Mr Mosquito]

Paul Tisdale, Seemingly great managerial skills on paper with all those promotions and so on, plays nice attractive football, however has the strongest links with city already than any other manager mentioned. Ex- Player, but not only that, has signed plenty of players from our club direct or who have played for the club in recent times including Keohane, Edwards, Noble, Stewart, Russell, Danny Coles, Scott Goldbourne and Ryan Harley. This is the thing that sets the alarm bells ringing for me to be honest. He is too close to the club, its too cosy and instead of managing the 'tribute' team he would be doing the real thing. and for some reason it doesnt sit well Sorry

Personally, I wouldn't appoint Paul Tisdale unless Steve Perryman - as a director of football - would come here as well.

[Red_Jim]

I'd be pleased if we appointed Tisdale. I'm not adverse to any manager from any level if they have demonstrated tactical nous, and preferably developed a reputation for a decent style of football. Tisdale, Clark and Robinson all fit the bill from League 1. Equally, I think Dave Jones would be a solid appointment- and I'm intrigued by McInnes - I'd certainly be excited if he joined, based on his record at St Johnstone.

[icamanicity]

Tisdale play's football the way it should be - attacking & attractive.

Ryan Harley was the shinning star for him a couple of years ago which got his move to Swansea/Brighton.

He wouldnt of been the star in a team that play's long ball or anything ugly/negative.

TISDALE IN!

I would prefer Billy Davies, he would make us a hated side, and we could be nasty,just like the man himself, Anyway i would settle for Tisdale.., ok Blood.

[Pederho ll]

Personally, I wouldn't appoint Paul Tisdale unless Steve Perryman - as a director of football - would come here as well.

Totally agree with this.

[the1stknowle]

Righty, great post but snipped it as just want to answer these points.

Lee Clark has been at Huddersfield for a while and is being bank rolled to get promotion. In his third season with them now and has blown 2 playoffs. A Danny Wilson in the wings I fear, and after being on a 3 1/2 year contract is now on a rolling 12 monther. Given if he doesnt get promoted this time it may be end of the line for a Huddersfield who have thrown everything but the kitchen sink to get up under the current boss. Sure he has a fantastic record and I dont think they have lost in the league yet this season either, but it is beginning to get to a time where he has to step up to the plate with the resources he has had and not be the nearly man.

Karl Robinson is afaik the youngest manager in the football league at 31. He has had 18 months or so in position at MK Dons and has got lots of accolades for being the youngest this and the youngest that. For sure he has done some fine work, Finishing 5th in his first season in charge, but also having a very leaky defence. Scored 68 or similar and conceded 60. Given our current issues with defence that have now stretched at least 3 different managers would he be the man to fix them? This season the defence has seemingly much improved only conceding around 10 which is why the MK Dons are now 2nd iirc. However in saying all of that he has yet to achieve if that makes sense. Villas Boas who is older than Robinson, but not by much. Boas turned around Academica before Porto, blitzed Porto and won everything he could and is now 'home' at Chelsea, after being a scout under Mourinho. Robinson though is doing things of a much lower impact, I also have a feeling that John Gorman is his assistant, would we want him back for a 2nd time if Robinson was to come?

Derek McInnes, came up when Coppell or GJ went iirc, I asked some Scots fans what they thought at the time, and they laughed at us in no certain terms. This still holds true today and the terms 'Bunch of thugs' has come up time and again. Currently has Jody Morris as club Captain and it goes from there. Challenge Cup with was afaik 4 seasons ago and had a minus 20 goal difference last season, scoring 23 and conceding 43 again doesnt inspire confidence as the way forward, despite a better showing this time.

Sean O Driscoll, basically, Ive said this else where on here, his Win Percentages at Bournemouth and Doncaster were around 36%, now whatever plaudits he has for playing neat or attractive football, it doesnt translate into consistent results. Blackpool proved it could be done with a zero budget or at least a very limited one, whilst Donny floundered about because of injury excuses last year, but as for the rest of it the stats speak for themselves. Also the last team to appoint a manager from a team below them or who had left a team below them in this league whilst in or near the relegation places was PNE with Darren Ferguson and we all know how well that worked out. 1 win in 19 in the current league suggests the man needs a break and then to comeback with someone else rather than straight into yet another relegation fight.

Mark Robins. Decent at Rotherham, appalling at Barnsley has an equivical record at this level to the manager we have just sacked in terms of results with 31.58% vs 31.52% Again was burnt out with politics at Barnsley and may not fancy going straight back into a relegation/bottom of the table scrap. Furthermore does nothing to dispell the jobs for the oldboys ethos. Finally, needs to buy in to get success has brought a plethora of players at both clubs he has been at and cant work with what he has to start.

Paul Tisdale, Seemingly great managerial skills on paper with all those promotions and so on, plays nice attractive football, however has the strongest links with city already than any other manager mentioned. Ex- Player, but not only that, has signed plenty of players from our club direct or who have played for the club in recent times including Keohane, Edwards, Noble, Stewart, Russell, Danny Coles, Scott Goldbourne and Ryan Harley. This is the thing that sets the alarm bells ringing for me to be honest. He is too close to the club, its too cosy and instead of managing the 'tribute' team he would be doing the real thing. and for some reason it doesnt sit well Sorry

Lee clark - has always had them there or thereabouts and Huddersfield fans love him, they play attacking footie and score goals. Agreed on the nearly man thing, but they are about to break the league record for undefeated run, no? And he's got a near 50% win record which is incredible. So early in his career who knows. But signs are good and all candidates will have doubts around them.

Karl Robinson - agreed. Too much emphasis placed on his age. He cant have done much more in his career, but its been a short career and would be best served with a few more years in one job.

Derek McInnes - Come on. You can do better than a couple of scottish people laughing at you and him having jody morris as captain. Im not sure Fabregas was that interested in the St Johnston's captain's job when the decision was made.

SoD - Its dangerous overfocusing on win %. You're win percentage plummets as a result of over-achievement. You take your team up on limited financial resources and keep them in the division above consistently, this statistic normally gets punished as the team will struggle to stay in the division. But if you keep them up again and again, the statistic gets punished further. Much better with SoD to look at the conditions at Donnie and Bournemouth and crucially, what we have all seen with our own eyes, their style of play. That would be nice to see down the gate.

Mark Robins - I have my doubts and out of this list he would be my least favoured. But what should he be doing at Barnsley? Again, overfocusing on win percentage only without taking into account other facts can be misleading. Has a very good reputation and good connections.

Paul Tisdale - What? Seriously? Because he's signed so many city players. I was with all your points until then. Come on, this is a bad, bad point. Its geographical coincidence that gives him the opportunity to sign players that otherwise might not come to Exeter. What has that got to do with some cozy relationship with exeter???

So Im with you on some of your reservations. But all the candidates have question marks and even if one didn't who knows how theyd integrate into the club. So there are problems with every candidate, but of the above I think you've least elucidated your problems with McInnes and Tisdale. Your other points I agree with in parts and I disagree with the way your looking at O'Driscoll's career.

The more Im reading about Tisdale today, the more Im becoming convinced he is the perfect fit for our club AND his career at this moment in time.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Righty, great post but snipped it as just want to answer these points.

Lee Clark has been at Huddersfield for a while and is being bank rolled to get promotion. In his third season with them now and has blown 2 playoffs. A Danny Wilson in the wings I fear, and after being on a 3 1/2 year contract is now on a rolling 12 monther. Given if he doesnt get promoted this time it may be end of the line for a Huddersfield who have thrown everything but the kitchen sink to get up under the current boss. Sure he has a fantastic record and I dont think they have lost in the league yet this season either, but it is beginning to get to a time where he has to step up to the plate with the resources he has had and not be the nearly man.

Karl Robinson is afaik the youngest manager in the football league at 31. He has had 18 months or so in position at MK Dons and has got lots of accolades for being the youngest this and the youngest that. For sure he has done some fine work, Finishing 5th in his first season in charge, but also having a very leaky defence. Scored 68 or similar and conceded 60. Given our current issues with defence that have now stretched at least 3 different managers would he be the man to fix them? This season the defence has seemingly much improved only conceding around 10 which is why the MK Dons are now 2nd iirc. However in saying all of that he has yet to achieve if that makes sense. Villas Boas who is older than Robinson, but not by much. Boas turned around Academica before Porto, blitzed Porto and won everything he could and is now 'home' at Chelsea, after being a scout under Mourinho. Robinson though is doing things of a much lower impact, I also have a feeling that John Gorman is his assistant, would we want him back for a 2nd time if Robinson was to come?

Derek McInnes, came up when Coppell or GJ went iirc, I asked some Scots fans what they thought at the time, and they laughed at us in no certain terms. This still holds true today and the terms 'Bunch of thugs' has come up time and again. Currently has Jody Morris as club Captain and it goes from there. Challenge Cup with was afaik 4 seasons ago and had a minus 20 goal difference last season, scoring 23 and conceding 43 again doesnt inspire confidence as the way forward, despite a better showing this time.

Sean O Driscoll, basically, Ive said this else where on here, his Win Percentages at Bournemouth and Doncaster were around 36%, now whatever plaudits he has for playing neat or attractive football, it doesnt translate into consistent results. Blackpool proved it could be done with a zero budget or at least a very limited one, whilst Donny floundered about because of injury excuses last year, but as for the rest of it the stats speak for themselves. Also the last team to appoint a manager from a team below them or who had left a team below them in this league whilst in or near the relegation places was PNE with Darren Ferguson and we all know how well that worked out. 1 win in 19 in the current league suggests the man needs a break and then to comeback with someone else rather than straight into yet another relegation fight.

Mark Robins. Decent at Rotherham, appalling at Barnsley has an equivical record at this level to the manager we have just sacked in terms of results with 31.58% vs 31.52% Again was burnt out with politics at Barnsley and may not fancy going straight back into a relegation/bottom of the table scrap. Furthermore does nothing to dispell the jobs for the oldboys ethos. Finally, needs to buy in to get success has brought a plethora of players at both clubs he has been at and cant work with what he has to start.

Paul Tisdale, Seemingly great managerial skills on paper with all those promotions and so on, plays nice attractive football, however has the strongest links with city already than any other manager mentioned. Ex- Player, but not only that, has signed plenty of players from our club direct or who have played for the club in recent times including Keohane, Edwards, Noble, Stewart, Russell, Danny Coles, Scott Goldbourne and Ryan Harley. This is the thing that sets the alarm bells ringing for me to be honest. He is too close to the club, its too cosy and instead of managing the 'tribute' team he would be doing the real thing. and for some reason it doesnt sit well Sorry

Huddersfield are 35 games unbeaten, Lee Clark must be doing something right. Play off games are cup finals and throw up odd results

[bcfcnick]

I'd lean towards Tisdale but take the point that it might work better if he came as a package with Steve Perryman who would make a great director of football. I think that would be unlikely as I've got a feeling that Perryman is invested in Exeter and has got financial links as well as a soft spot for the Club. I couldn't see him moving.

[the1stknowle]

Im only going off what people have said for this one. tbf looking at the most recent of stuff I cant tell either way Last season only scoring 23 goals and conceding twice that is something of a worry in a league that is percieved (weather it is or not) to be much worse than our current one

Maybe it is maybe it isnt, but the reasons I gave inc 1 in 19 at this level, wanting to deal with a squad in turmoil etc etc and the win percentage as a secondary thing dont stack up even with th injuries. Ive looked at the 'conditions' at both, but they both scream that although its lovely football it doesnt produce results, and the most recent run isnt encouraging as per the PNE comparison from hiring managers in the same league below

Connections count for diddly squat, see Wigley, S and the Caulker signing and lack of signings since to do with his heightened position or again Ferguson, D and PNE. Those on loan despite being from United hardly set the world alight there. How has Robins garnered a reputation at Barnsley?

Yes, seriously. All people are allowed irrational fears, this happens to be mine. I fear as an ex player and part of a 'tribute' act its too close to home, despite all the positives in his favour. Its the best fit because he is 'local' and the best of a local bunch, worries me some what. and hasnt had to deal with a situation as is. We have been there before with lots of positives etc and a better way of playing with Benny, bizarrely enough, but it didnt work and he got completely destroyed for trying it by the faithful. How is Tis going to be any different if the results dont pick up, yet the playing style changes.

Thatmay well be, but exactly how many promotions has Lee Clark had despite this wonderous record? Its very similar to what we had under Wilson (13 or 14 straight wins or similar and still we didnt get promoted. Ring any bells?), in terms of nearly and not quite, again has had cash to spend whether on full transfers or Bosman's and again no experience of picking up a team as disjointed as this and working potentially under a slashed budget. Also suspect Mcdermott is the key here and if not allowed to bring in staff as Sexton alluded to, there may well be issues.

On the connections thing - I'll give you its not an important criteria, but it hardly counts for nothing. All you've done is give a few examples where it hasnt worked. I'll give you examples where it has. Darren Ferguson this season with the Utd players, Brendan Rodgers and Scott Sinclair and Fabio Borrini, Bournemouth and Jermain Defoe and Rio Ferdinand. These loans happened only because of personal connections. But this is a side point.

I'll take your point on O'Driscoll and if he hadnt have won 1 in 19 we'd be looking at paying a million quid comp for him rather than pick him up for free. Maybe he is in a rut. Personally I dont think so but at least it's a valid point.

On McInnes - it might be an inferior league to ours but there is the other side of that same coin: he has an inferior team in that inferior league. Everything is relative in football. Relative to the teams in your league. He's done well to get them promoted in his first full season in charge and then keep them in the SPL. I dont know who these Scottish lads youve talked to are but most Glaswegians have no time for any other clubs. And also its just so anecdotal - there are plenty of people on this forum saying they've talked to Scottish fans who have only good things to say about McInnes. Certainly he is rated in the game as West Brom, Burnley and Brentford all have registered confirmed approaches for him.

On Tisdale - I just dont understand your point. I know you say its irrational which self-evidently I cant argue against. But a "tribute" team. It just makes no sense as a concept and if you're the board, that's not going to run through your head. All you're talking about is a geographical coincidence that makes it easier for him to attract players that leave city. He hasn't tried to build a wicker man style tribute to his lords Bristol City in the hope that would really impress us and we'd give him a job.

I dont think anyone here is pushing tisdale because he's local or that he played a handful of games. I barely remember him playing for us. And we certainly dont get a lot of exeter city news on htv. He's being pushed because he has a management record that it would be very, very hard to better.

How many new managers stay continuously employed for their first 10 years in management? And suffer no relegations? Across 2 different teams? Spending money once? And gaining 6 promotions?

Come on, if you're the board and you ignore this, admittedly irrational, "tribute team" thing then that is an impressive cv that you would be neglectful in your job to ignore.

[the1stknowle]

Looks like Forest have the same ideas in appointing a lower profile, successful coach:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/oct/03/karl-robinson-paul-tisdale-nottingham-forest

[the1stknowle]

So in general signing Marquee players that arent your own and developing them is the way forward? Especially when we have a 'great' academy. Something has to give and they cant co exist or development from the academy in house will have to be stifled. Since the transfer window came in Loans are pretty much transfers in all but name to circumvent regulations. The issue is that instead of being used of cover then signed after wards, bigger clubs are using the loans for development without the risks and this is now to the detriment of people coming through in house. Teams are actively relying on loans as being the Golden Goose, see Caulker ,S last season

FWIW The Bournemouth connection stems from Harry's days as manager there and iirc both players were loaned to Mal Machin then manager. Redknapp still lives in Sandbanks iirc as for Ferguson Wootton and Tunnicliffe are the loanees, and its not as if they are even the pick of the loans, with the better players now going to Prem clubs, so is infact getting the dross, the sub Robbie Savages the Joe Roberts and the George Switzers of the Man Utd 1992 youth team for example, and they treat it as if they have recieved manna from heaven by getting these players as if somehow they are brilliant because of the name Man Utd. That is fundamentally a growing problem. So no I dont thing that personal connections arent that important. but thats just my view

Scots fans Ive talked to are Motherwell, Dundee and Aberdeen fans amongst others, a nice mix tbf. If they are wrong they are wrong. Also just because he is highly rated doesnt mean that it translates across leagues and will be a sudden success down here either. Scottish football is really struggling and some of the players that make up his team and others in the SPL come from Champs level or lower Sam Parkin for example for St Johnstone. Heck even the likes of Rangers or rather Celtic are going to the Champs for their first team signings now Joe Ledley and Gary Hooper and the likes of Motherwell signing Nicky Law and so on. Back to McInnes, some St Johnstone fans have also commented that if the pitch isnt great then the passing game goes to pot and that there is no plan B and that would worry me some what

By tribute I mean in the sense that its emulating the club in all but name anyway. As said its not a rational thing. As for a record that's harder to better, is his appointment going to be good for the club. Is he good for getting the best out of players here or signing more to sort his own things out. What would he be like with a relatively massive step up in money and stuff. What would his plans for the club be. Is he happy where he is? does he want to step up? Does he even want to come here after the way he was treated before and so on? The list is vast and infinite

As an aside I have a a feeling that him and Robins played together at Panonios in the late 1990's

I dunno how many managers stay incontinous employment with no relegations, but id wager that there are more than meets the eye. I ve not got the time to look into it but im sure they exist though. Team Bath was a great experiment getting ex- pros and so forth back into football after injury or other such stuff. They started at a very low level and the players that they had were miles better than the leagues they were playing in and this was still true after Tisdale left as they got promoted to the Conference South and finished 11th in their one and only season up there (unless my brain's melding things together in which case Ill concede Im wrong).

Tis has done well for Exeter, until he got promoted to League One. There are two ways of looking at it. He did brilliant with no cash and great football, or looking at an 18th, 8th, 23rd (currently) that he may have found his level. Now he could go onwards and upwards this is true. I'm looking at the likes of Paul Lambert ( however what I thinks stands Lambert out is that he did his badges whilst at Dortmund iirc and knows a different way of playing and coaching than the usual and leads to a different conversation about coaching in this country in general) to say that it can be done, with the added impetus of good ground works already laid in a number of cases. But conversely it could all be too much and we sink like a stone back into the pit oblivion from which we came

We dont have the luxuary to spend time sorting this out this time, our previous manager who was a great and respected coach remember didnt address properly many long standing issues and according to many and the club is a mess top to bottom. Its easy to say we could drop down and come back stronger but those teams that have done it in Recent times, Man City, Norwich etc havent had the SMP regulations to contend with and were we to go down (coming in next season iirc 60% wages to turnover, much more punitive that the Champs one. as in we wont be able to replace all those OOC players and indeed may have to trim even further), whilst this rebuilding phase was going ahead then Tis would need to hit the ground running sort the club out and maintain results on the pitch, whilst coming off his own fight to stay in league one presently. Its a tough ask and a magic wand will not solve it.

Yes there are tonnes of ifs and buts, but at the moment conjecture is all that we have. However Im not trying to be blindsided by everything and look and the positives and the negatives of the managers that people would like to see and in this case, all those suggested have draw backs other than the obvious they havent managed in this league for very long, or havent had the cash or whatever tertiary things people want to use as a basis for being anti them.

Not all is sweetness and light for all possible candidates and a more balanced approach for this board is a refreshing change

I dont know what you're getting at with the loans thing. Yes, they were harry redknapps and mel machin's connection. that's a personal connection, no? But these are side points for another time. I know some people like the loans system. Some don't. Thats not what Im arguing. Im just saying that whilst it is in place, connections in the game have some importance. Like I say, a side point. I consider connections in the game very low down in the qualities we;re looking for.

The McInnes stuff is all too anecdotal to debate. He said, she said, some have commented, all these scottish fans surveyed from all these different clubs. We can see from this forum today that no football fans can agree on what is a successful manager and what isn't... And even if you accept he is successful then you're right, it doesnt mean that success will translate across leagues. But similarly, success in the same league doesnt necessarily, nor more frequently, translate across clubs. There are no guarantees so this point can be made of every candidate.

However, whilst I accept your aiming for balance and Im definitely keen on that on here, for me, a lot of your analysis of Tisdale's career is overly negative. I dont see how you can say he's found his level or even might have found his level. Finishing 8th with Exeter then selling his best players and not spending anything to replace them. Say his level was the best manager in the world. Surely you can't expect him to come up through the leagues with Exeter until eventually winning the champions league? In which case, he has to plateau somewhere. Eventually a club, or rather the squad, will have to peak but that doesnt mean the manager has. Where would Jose Mourinho have this Exeter squad?

And I dont buy for a minute that there are a surprising number of managers in continual employment for 10 years. What number is "more than meets the eye"? Fergie, wenger, john coleman, moyes, tis, Nigel clough.. reckon thats it. Might be a few more. That's pretty decent company, no?

But its all conjecture and how you present the facts, right? We can each paint our chosen candidates qualities in glowing terms and downplay the negatives. As you hint at, only one way to find out what his level is and that is to give him a go. I say his record says he deserves a chance, he has clear talent, and he is what we are looking for. That's not the same as saying he'll guide us to easy promotion. Maybe it wont work out. No one has a crystal ball. All you can do is look to appoint the best managers out there that fit your club. And minimum Tisdale warrants an interview.

PS Having seen him play, I'll bet you a cheeky tenner that you look back in 5 years time at calling Ryan Tunnicliffe "dross" and "sub robbie savage" and freely admit that you were very, very wrong.

[Mighty Squirrel Kingdom]

This is one of the best discussions I've ever read on here.

The key question for me about any appointment is how the new boss would respond if the worst happens and we find ourselves back in League 1. If we'd found ourselves in trouble next March or April with City in a perilous position at the bottom of the table, then Tisdale or Robinson would be the right decision.

However, the clocks haven't gone back yet, there's still three quarters of the season left and there's still time to make sure we finish 21st or better, which has to be the target for the new boss. The only thing that can screw it up is a decent run in the FA Cup...oh no, why did I even think that...

[The Bard]

Lots of talk in here of managers like Tisdale introducing flowing, passing football. I'm of the opinion that you can't polish a turd. The turd being our squad on the whole. You can't just implement those tactics to a squad not capable and severely lacking in confidence overnight. It takes time, and time is something we don't have. We are bottom and in risk of being cut adrift from mid table. Anyone that comes in and tries to get a poor squad playing a beautiful passing game and expecting it to just work is going to take us down, in my opinion. Not that I actually think any manager would. There's a lot of idealistic and unrealistic stuff on here the last 24 hours or so. It's going to be an ugly battle. I just hope we have the balls.

You can polish a turd. But it will still be a turd. Just a bit shiny. As long as we're not one of the 3 worst turds come May we'll all be happy.

Why is everyone going on about not having time? We have 36 games over 7 months. A good manager will have his style of play imposed within 6 games or so. We need someone with a clear idea of how they want to play and the ability to convey that to his players, giving them belief that it will produce results. Our squad is good enough to get out of this mess. We have 2 of the best goalscorers in the division. The manager needs to strike a balance between protecting an inexperienced defence and ensuring that these 2 players get the chances to win us games. Picking Cisse would be the first thing I'd do. If he'd been in the side this year, Millen would still be in a job.

[the1stknowle]

The analysis isnt overly negative its firm but fair, there isnt any evidence whatsoever to suggest that he can do it at a higher level, and many managers have to sell their best players and get on with the job in hand. Some can do it, some cant. Its great that he has only spent 50k on some double barred named dude from Tottenham it really is, but how does that transpose to being great for us. I keep hearing the we are skint discussion and everything is to be done by cutting the cloth. Despite the restrictions Millen still spent well over £2 Million at a conservative guess and that hardly screams out as being a situation whereby we are totally brassic despite the horrendous accounts, which I think are converted to loans from Lansdown rather than stagnate on the balance sheet, though again I may be getting muddled on the last bit.

The point about Mourinho at Exeter relates to Tis this way. I dont think Mourinho would do well at Exeter simply because its a different world to what he has been used to. Certain managers thrive under certain conditions, others fail completely when faced with different conditions. Look at Diaz at Oxford for example, genuine great manager abroad, completely flopped at Oxford, went back to what he knew and won the Argentine league again with San Lorenzo

We have gone down the road of impressive Non League to league and getting a small team to punch above their weight before in Gary Johnson, and in the end the job here became a step to far, that he has sunk back down the leagues and is now managing Northampton in League 2 is indicative of that he plateaued with us and it was a step to far ( people will argue that it was one game away from the promised land, but realistically we had started to go stagnant from Xmas that season and it went downhill from there as his level had been exceeded great for us in the short term, helped to create the current situation we are in in the long term) .

Looking at Tis, then its confirmation that we have form for this type of appointment, and ultimately whilst the manager was undoubtedly great at lower leagues it came undone spectacularly here and has downward spiralled since. Looking at the trends of managers who do this Ie come up and push from Non League, most plateau in the Champs and arent able to push on. Nigel Clough, Steve Cotterill for example have yet to push on after taking Cheltenham and Burton from obscurity to greatness and at present are seemingly stuck here, as in this league. Steve Evans tanked in the league below with Boston and is trying again with Crawley. Iirc only Joe Kinnear and Neil Warnock have gone all the way and done relatively well in this level or above after coming from non league management again I'll stand corrected but the hit rate isnt as high as it could be, What marks out Tis as being genuinely different to that?

Seems like Darren Ferguson doesnt agree at this stage, afaik him and Wotton have been confined to the bench for most of the season thus far, which is hardly fine praise as seeing as much was expected after last years heroics for the Man United Youth Team. iirc Pogba and Ravel Morrison at the gems from the youth team in terms of Man United's Midfield. I know some Reds really rate him, but it does appear to be a sink or swim loan for Tunnicliffe to see if he can make it in the game away from Old Trafford to see if he has it.. The reason I used Robbie Savage, is because many people forget he started at United and he had to do the business else where before eventually coming good. Or despite the talent he could end up dropping through the leagues, people with promise no matter how good have littered the lower leagues despite all their potential promise before now. Ronnie Wallwork, Kevin Pilkington, Ben Thornley, Michael Twiss, Mark Wilson an are names that have drifted down before and werent the greatest and more recently Cathcart, Corry Evans, James Chester, Kieran Lee, Richard Eckersley despite potental have moved away from OT to make it as a pro many of them have earned youth or full honours before they left OT.

Im not saying he wont make or indeed that he isnt good, just that in terms of potential there appears to be other players that are ahead of him in the pecking order at this stage of his career. He may blossom and indeed be push on, its taken Welbeck and Cleverley long enough to step out of the shadows following a number of loans elsewhere. So it can be done, its just whether its done at OT and he pushes on like Gibson or the two Ive just mentioned or falls by the way side and makes it as a pro somewhere else.

Think we're just going to go round in circles here so I'll leave it after this.

1. Gary Johnson in your eyes wasn't a good appointment? Or the job got too much for him because his natural level is League 1/league 2/non-league? Why can't his dip or his "loss of the dressing room" be put down to personality clash? Why does it get put down to his non-league past. Because for 4 seasons his non league past seemed to work pretty well at our league level. But we focus on the failure rather than the success. Would you not take Tisdale saving us from relegation then leading us into mid-table league above before a personality clash between him and Bobby Reid results in his resignation? I'd take that. And I wouldnt be focusing on his resignation. Id be focusing on the 4 years before.

2. Again, I dont buy your Tisdale analysis. All youre doing is pointing to stuff in the past at our club or other clubs, finding tenuous common links and saying history will repeat exactly. You could easily say Tisdale is bald, gary johnson was balding and so they are the same manager. But Pep Guardiola is bald too!

3. You did implicitly call Ryan Tunnicliffe "dross" and that is pretty extreme and normally would suggest you dont think he will become a good player. All Im saying is Ill take the bet that in 5 years time, you look back and of your own free will admit that was a wrong thing to say. If you take back the dross thing and say instead he mightn't fulfill his potential, then fine. He's played in 9 of p'boros 12 games this season and he's only 18. That seems a fine return for a loan player to me.

4. Like I say, no one knows whether Tisdale will work out. But I disagree strongly with your analysis of his career, I do think it's overly negative rather than balanced and I just havent heard an argument from you yet that says, in effect, anything other than "he starts in the lower leagues so maybe that is his level". Maybe it is. But you can equally turn the argument and say until he gets a shot, no one knows. If your argument holds, do all managers need to start in the championship to be a good manager in the championship? Where do you think Alex Ferguson started? David Moyes started in Division One. He's ok though, right?

This "trend" argument you have is again pretty anecdotal and I think you should consider there are other reasons that lower league managers dont get jobs - largely the preconceptions that you expound in your arguments. No women voted in 1910 in the US because the government didn't think they were capable of voting. But the fact that no women voted doesnt prove they werent capable. It proves they didnt have the chance.

5. We're not going to agree on the Tisdale thing and I have a feeling he won't be appointed anyway. But he is seemingly up for the Florist job and so we can see soon, I'm sure, what he will be able to do at this level.

[the1stknowle]

Option 2 there, he tried to succeed at this level and momentum very nearly carried us over the line. Personality Clash, doesnt result in the changes in football style that followed that Xmas. 101 reasons as to why that occured, but he hasnt been the same manager since and is trying to re assert that he can do it again or still has it hence the Peterborough and Northampton appointments.. John Ward was another who could do it lower down the leagues and admitted he couldnt do it up here and quit (among again several reasons as to why he went, not wanting a DoF etc etc)

Im not going to answer on your pure speculation re Tis, because Ive gone into detail or at least hinted at as to why in general managers that drag teams from non league dont succeed at this level. He may be the exception to the rule and having looked into it, I can strike Joe Kinnear from the list ( I got it wrong! it happens cest la vie) leaving Neil Warnock as afaik the only person in recent times to work their way up to the prem from non league management the rest have fallen by the way side whether they change clubs or stay at one which was my point the rest in general get stuck in a rut in this league or return to the lower leagues and dont push on. That's an historical trend, and yes, it can be broken, but the odds dont always add up no matter what the premise is. If we were still in League one then yes I could see having a go on Tis as being a viable option, but we arent.

Lets put the dross comment from post whatever it is in to context

There appears whether is true or not to be a hierarchy of youth players at OT

A grade players stay with the first team as they develop and dont go on loan. Darren Fletcher, Rafael, Fabio etc

B grade players get sent on loan to the Prem or to higher leagues around Europe to learn their trades away from OT. Diouf, Macheda etc

C grade players get sent on loan to championship clubs and then Prem Clubs if they are worthy De Laet, Wellbeck etc

D grade players get sent on loan to League one clubs or lower Norwood, Johnstone etc

At present despite all the potential promise Tunnicliffe would be in grade C for me. if Fergie or his staff really thought he was ready/good enough at this stage then Im sure he would have gone to a lower end Prem Team or someone with a higher profile with Man Utd loanees Some will make it, others as Ive mentioned James Chester and so one will end up in this league. In the grand scheme of things. Clearly he may well progress or blossom and become excellent, but in the interests of parity he could end up like so many others.

Darren Fergusson despite being SAF actually gets a raw deal in terms of loanees. Hull and Watford seeming to be the better beneficiaries at this level.

So Im not writing him off as a footballer nor saying that he isnt any good, just merely pointing out that if he was more highly rated, then surely he would have been kept in house to develop or loaned to the Prem or a favoured club

As for the Peterborough thing, check the stats on Espn 4 starts and 8 subs, he is fringing at Peterborough currently

Not sure what the Ott nature of this is for, but Alex Ferguson started off at East Stirlingshire iirc, then St Mirren ( won the scots league) then Aberdeen ( won the scots league and the Cup Winners Cup) and managed Scotland before he arrived at OT. Moyes did start in the third division of old for sure, and that's still about several levels above where Tis started. Again Im not saying he wont be a good manager. What I am and have said that those that break through from managing at non league are few and far between and of those, not many are successful, and that the natural level appears to be generally struggling in this league or returning to lower levels as is a step too far. Show me how Tis is suddenly going to break that mould and then Im all ears

Here's the main point. I cannot show you Tis will "break the mould". As I hope I showed, I dont buy the break the mould argument. Are you specifically saying people that started in non-league? So Fergie and Moyes who worked their way up dont count? Just to be clear. If that's the case, I would argue that the number who are given a chance is tiny, not just the number that fail (average league manager time in job is around 1.8 years apparently so actually, virtually all managers fail).

Of course I cannot show you how tis would do until someone gives him a chance. But nor can you show me the contrary. He is managing successfully in the second division currently. He's Paul Tisdale - who was going to give him a chance anywhere but the non leagues? So he's earned his place in the higher divisions. To call him a non-league manager when he has clearly shown himself to be above that level seems unfair. And to focus on the fact that he happened to start in non-league over his many other attributes also seems unfair.

Despite an absence of crystal ball, at some point you have to plant your flag and say "for me, this is our man". For me, it's Tisdale or Billy Davies (assuming MoN isnt even in the running) and Tisdale nudges ahead based purely on Billy Davies history of boardroom conflict. Maybe McInnes (I note the St Johnston fan on our forum today praising him to the hilt in contrast to your scottish friends so there are definitely other opinions available on him). And I'd be really happy with SoD too. There are good, gettable candidates out there and my main thrust of this thread is that I want the board to appoint (or more accurately interview) based on managerial talent not reputation or some weird idea of passion or respect from the players.

We're not going to agree and we're kind of going round in circles - Im guessing no one else is reading our long posts now.

Sorry if you thought I was being ott - it's just I radically disagree with what you're saying and struggle to understand some of your points sometimes.

Definitely keen to keep civil and Ive always got nothing but love and respect for my fellow City fans. Even the people calling for Peter Reid and Paulo di Canio I accept have their reasons!

[redlandrebel]

I think we need a manager who's on the way up, not already gone as far as they can and not one living on past glory.

Hear hear.

... how much longer...

[Riaz]

I did think you'd bring GJ up, Thing about GJ is he has a likeable personality, he might well be the "bully" that Robbo believes him to be, he might well have done this that and the other but he is a particularly nice bloke in person and on screen... Billy... good god. I know the Jocks have a few problems with.. you know... pretending to be human but he takes the biscuit.

I think a lot more people "hate" Nottingham Forest on the back of the direction he took them than "hate" us.. I'm sure plenty of fans have experienced seeing Davies laugh and joke about a player who was on the floor in apparent danger like we did when Tyson "did" Gerken. Think that's worse than a cheeky trip on Chopra who was being a right **** at the time.

That's entirely your prerogative Ralphy. Likewise it is mine to want to feel some kind of bond to the manager of my football club. It's hard enough to feel connected to the "big time charlies" that pull on the red shirt, I can't imagine I'd find myself warming to Billy's childish and aggressive pitch side antics.

You said it yourself, we have a mirky reputation as it is, do we really want the only man in football who could possibly make us even more despised at the club? We'd be more popular if we employed "Call me Dave" Cameron and Maggy as joint managers...

How do you know that Davies wasnt laughing at something else?

[the1stknowle]

So basically, what your saying is its fine if you like the bloke to do childish and immature things, but completely wrong and will drag the name of football into the mud, if you dont like the bloke, despite the misdemeanours being of the same ilk.

Its a very strange way of looking at it and creates an interesting dichotomy, is there more to having the contradictory views than that or is it just plainly because you like one more than the other on a personal level?

I accept that we dont endear ourselves to the general footballing public, and appointing Billy Davies or other of that ilk really isnt going to make it any better or any worse in the short term. I suspect there will be some football fans who will be quite glad we are where we are in the league and not all of them will be affiliated to the Gas. Given that you have accepted that unacceptable behaviour is acceptable if you like the bloke who does it, I cant see what discussions you can have on those grounds, when making exactly the same points against it?

Feel like we've gone off course on this thread.

Surely main point against Billy Davies is that at his last three clubs he has taken a divisive attitude towards "the team" on one hand and "the board" on the other. I accept he is a great manager and fans of his clubs love him. But maybe one of the reasons they love him is they feel on his side because he creates this false dichotomy. Might even be a deliberate tactic.

For the rest of the football league, Nigel Doughty seems like a decent chairman who has pumped a huge amount of his fortune into a club and has brought in high-wage players above championship level to play in that team. Even under McClaren they signed 4 decent Premier League players and kept the majority of their play off squad. But the fans already had it in mind that the board was working against them even though many couldnt quite elucidate why.

I'd be more than happy with BD here as he is obviously very talented. Id actually prefer him to Dave Jones. But there is definitely a trend there to set up a them vs us attitude in relation to the board. And that could be really damaging to us at the moment given our boards relations with our fans. That is my only reservation in regards to Billy Davies.

No manager gets everything they ask for from their board. I'm very much of the opinion that unless it is particularly egregious behaviour by the board, managers should just get on with it. And with ffp coming in, managers that dont will get louder and more divisive during the acclimatisation period. Just think BD would probably be in that group and we could do without that at the moment.

But talent-wise I dont think anyone on this board has any reasonable complaints against Billy Davies. He might be a bit of a numpty, but he's not in the same league of "the world i against me and that's the only reason we lost" as Warnock and I think the personal stuff against him would be easily forgotten were he to take us up the league.

[the1stknowle]

I'm still reading them Mr Knowle. Admiring your patience tbh.

I am a big fan of Tisdale, RMLF is a Preston "admirer" and won't have a bad word said about Mr Davies so I won't provoke him by telling you what I think about him!!

Who said I was MR Knowle? Girls watch football too!

Always glad to see a fellow Tisdale-backer but I've got a feeling the Tisdale campaign is being usurped by the rampaging Derek McInnes. Truth be told, Id be happy with either and indeed 6 or 7 of the names mentioned on these boards. But I wanted to stress in this thread that we should hope our board takes a rational, considered and neutral view, thinks about what we need and what resources we can offer a manager, what our expectations are and then interviews the three or four best candidates that meet those criteria. Then appoints the one that interviews the best in their opinion (and that doesnt mean the one that shouts the loudest or is most animated in the interview!)

The board definitely seem to be taking their time and keeping everything very in house at the moment. I havet heard anything reliable coming from the usual places. I just hope they avoid one of the really divisive candidates like Boothroyd or Reid or Holloway.

I'd really like to get back to the gary johnson early years when pretty much everyone was pulling in the same direction - even if it only lasts 6 months.