Millen, Glad He Has Gone

[TRL]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,,11726_7234495,00.html

take a look at that picture on the sky site, pale, lines etched on his face, worry. I feel for the guy. I hope he can take some time out, refresh himself and hopefully get himself back into football, because clearly the guy has put a lot of hard work and hours into becoming a football manager.

Makes you wonder sometimes, you have to be made of hard stuff being a football manger, for the small amount of glory you get compared to mainly stress the rest of the time, it takes a bigger man than me to do a job like that. Makes me thankful sometimes that I am in a fairly normal job with less stress than these guys.

[David Brent]

I agree. But if you think you're big enough for the job then you've got to be big enough to handle the stress. No sympathy from me, Millen wanted the job. Goes for all managers.

[Pewsham]

had my Heart Attack at age 36. Glad I took a back seat afterwards to do a job I much enjoy (though it meant a cut in pay). You can't have everything!

I often wondered what possessed Graeme Souness and Joe Kinnear to carry on being a Footie Manager

[TRL]

Agreed, and when you take into consideration the pampered little darlings who trot around the pitch after doing a 12 hour week being paid four, five or six times what Millen was getting, it puts it all into (or out of) perspective.

I have a lot more respect for Millen than I have for that sorry bunch.

The next manager needs to get rid of one or two - or he'll end up like Millen, and Johnson before him.

But yes, you need a very thick skin and nerves of steel to be a football manager.

Indeed, and from what I hear he was putting in 15-16 hour days trying to get the right results only for those part time well payed players to put in half arsed efforts when the going got tough on the pitch.

[simonwheeler]

Indeed, and from what I hear he was putting in 15-16 hour days trying to get the right results only for those part time well payed players to put in half arsed efforts when the going got tough on the pitch.

Plus one. In the end I really felt for the guy as it was totally clear that whilst he was busting a gut most of the players were not even breaking sweat?

I just hope that whoever the new Manager is he comes armed with an industrial type strimmer to get rid of a lot of dead wood?

Also I am saddened that when the "parting of ways" was announced last week Sex Bone clearly stated "That Keith would be making a statement later on in the week ie Last week?" As far as I am aware we are still waiting to hear Keith's side of events or has he been "advised" to keep his counsel by the Ashton political police?????

[spudski]

Indeed, and from what I hear he was putting in 15-16 hour days trying to get the right results only for those part time well payed players to put in half arsed efforts when the going got tough on the pitch.

He was working his socks off for this Club...I know that for sure. I too get angry when i see players underperforming and not doing what they were told to do in training. You can't legislate for that.

Instead of fans Booing KM, they should have been chanting 'You're not fit to wear the shirt' to half our players. They've got away with murder as far as i'm concerned. I'm sure Milley will bounce back somewhere.

He's probably playing Golf in Portugal right now.

[glynriley]

Plus one. In the end I really felt for the guy as it was totally clear that whilst he was busting a gut most of the players were not even breaking sweat?

I just hope that whoever the new Manager is he comes armed with an industrial type strimmer to get rid of a lot of dead wood?

Also I am saddened that when the "parting of ways" was announced last week Sex Bone clearly stated "That Keith would be making a statement later on in the week ie Last week?" As far as I am aware we are still waiting to hear Keith's side of events or has he been "advised" to keep his counsel by the Ashton political police?????

I would imagine , if compensation is yet to be agreed , the LMA have advised him not to say anything.

[TRUEBRIT66]

Yep, I was in tears when I saw the report of him on TV driving away from Ashton Gate in his shiny new Mercedes I hope the family holiday in the Bahamas and the very comfortable payout on the remainder of his contract softens the blow, not including any compensation the club gave him.

I know of two people who have been working their hearts out on 12 hr shifts in a factory for the past 7 years for a pittance of a wage to be told the factory is shutting the company have gone bust and no severance pay is forthcoming.

Guess who I feel for ?

[TRL]

Yep, I was in tears when I saw the report of him on TV driving away from Ashton Gate in his shiny new Mercedes I hope the family holiday in the Bahamas and the very comfortable payout on the remainder of his contract softens the blow, not including any compensation the club gave him.

I know of two people who have been working their hearts out on 12 hr shifts in a factory for the past 7 years for a pittance of a wage to be told the factory is shutting the company have gone bust and no severance pay is forthcoming.

Guess who I feel for ?

Ahhh, the working class BS cry. Wondered when that would crop up. Your don't come from Liverpool as well do you?

[newboy]

Ahhh, the working class BS cry. Wondered when that would crop up. Your don't come from Liverpool as well do you?

I agree with the original poster - KM knew exactly what he was getting into - having seen it first hand for countless years. It's not as if he went to a new team and was unaware of the issues.

He didn't have the strength of character to manage the mess that was largely of his own making but rather than be sacked for incompetence, he has been given, we presume, a hefty payout.

Meanwhile elsewhere throughout the country people who do their jobs well are getting laid off with next to no compensation through no fault of their own.

So whilst I'm not rubbing my hands with glee at his departure, I'm not weeping either.

[TRL]

I agree with the original poster - KM knew exactly what he was getting into - having seen it first hand for countless years. It's not as if he went to a new team and was unaware of the issues.

He didn't have the strength of character to manage the mess that was largely of his own making but rather than be sacked for incompetence, he has been given, we presume, a hefty payout.

Meanwhile elsewhere throughout the country people who do their jobs well are getting laid off with next to no compensation through no fault of their own.

So whilst I'm not rubbing my hands with glee at his departure, I'm not weeping either.

Sorry I completely disagree. We no longer live in a country where you have a job for life. No one can expect to have a job and keep it.

I feel sorry for all who lose their jobs be it well paid or not. Why because you are well paid and get sacked/ made redundant should you get abuse thrown at you? It's a pitiful state of affairs. Rich or poor you are human with the same emotions. Just when you are poor you get a little more help from the state when made redundant.

[TRUEBRIT66]

[TRUEBRIT66]

Sorry I completely disagree. We no longer live in a country where you have a job for life. No one can expect to have a job and keep it.

I feel sorry for all who lose their jobs be it well paid or not. Why because you are well paid and get sacked/ made redundant should you get abuse thrown at you? It's a pitiful state of affairs. Rich or poor you are human with the same emotions. Just when you are poor you get a little more help from the state when made redundant.

Contradicting your self some what TRL ! And I disagree losing your employment is a far easier pill to swallow if you have a HUGE payout and compensation as the vast majority of football managers have........common sense really

[TRL]

Contradicting your self some what TRL ! And I disagree losing your employment is a far easier pill to swallow if you have a HUGE payout and compensation as the vast majority of football managers have........common sense really

Well that is how football clubs are run, I am unsure how much you would be owed if you were a contractor, who had a contract for say 2 years, and your employers decided to get rid of you with a year to go, would you be entitled to your full year of pay? I would suggest they would be due something, but employment law is not a subject I know much about.

Remember if you are paid alot, the likelyhood is you have larger loans larger mortgage etc etc, you live relative to what you are paid, so I would suggest in terms of being up shite creek without a paddle is likely to be just as bad for them. In fact If they have any savings that is likely to be eaten into before they get anything from the state even though they pay more tax to prop up people getting income support.

But all this is a completely different argument. I am suggesting why should someone who has been sacked, just because they get paid well should be ridiculed? They are still human, same emotions. So why do you feel that it is okay ot ridicule Millen?

[newboy]

Well that is how football clubs are run, I am unsure how much you would be owed if you were a contractor, who had a contract for say 2 years, and your employers decided to get rid of you with a year to go, would you be entitled to your full year of pay? I would suggest they would be due something, but employment law is not a subject I know much about.

Remember if you are paid alot, the likelyhood is you have larger loans larger mortgage etc etc, you live relative to what you are paid, so I would suggest in terms of being up shite creek without a paddle is likely to be just as bad for them. In fact If they have any savings that is likely to be eaten into before they get anything from the state even though they pay more tax to prop up people getting income support.

But all this is a completely different argument. I am suggesting why should someone who has been sacked, just because they get paid well should be ridiculed? They are still human, same emotions. So why do you feel that it is okay ot ridicule Millen?

Ah,that's a different argument altogether. Who said it was ok to ridicule him?

So in summary can we agree on:

- People doing a good job, but get laid off with no compensation = smattering of sympathy

- Keith Millen doing a bad job, but lots of compensation = some sympathy

- No need to ridicule anyone

[Stephen Lewis]

Well that is how football clubs are run, I am unsure how much you would be owed if you were a contractor, who had a contract for say 2 years, and your employers decided to get rid of you with a year to go, would you be entitled to your full year of pay? I would suggest they would be due something, but employment law is not a subject I know much about.

Remember if you are paid alot, the likelyhood is you have larger loans larger mortgage etc etc, you live relative to what you are paid, so I would suggest in terms of being up shite creek without a paddle is likely to be just as bad for them. In fact If they have any savings that is likely to be eaten into before they get anything from the state even though they pay more tax to prop up people getting income support.

But all this is a completely different argument. I am suggesting why should someone who has been sacked, just because they get paid well should be ridiculed? They are still human, same emotions. So why do you feel that it is okay ot ridicule Millen?

You are entitled to your opinion even though you are a prat.

[TRL]

Ah,that's a different argument altogether. Who said it was ok to ridicule him?

So in summary can we agree on:

- People doing a good job, but get laid off with no compensation = smattering of sympathy

- Keith Millen doing a bad job, but lots of compensation = some sympathy

- No need to ridicule anyone

Take a look a TrueBrits first post, this is what I am refering to. Just poking fun at a guy who lost his job. I would like to see a reation if he had done the same to someone who had just lost there job face to face.

I am presuming he wouldn't of.

Millen was getting bad results, and in this indusrty that cost you your job. But that is not to say he put hell of a lot of effort above and beyond what most people would do to get it right. Clearly he didn't get it right, but it wasn't for a lack of trying, working 15 hour days only for indvidual mistakes and gutless performances to lose him his job.

People look all to quickly at the results, which is fair enough. They just don't see all the time, passion and personal life used trying to get things right. I am sure the players don't work even half the time the manager does yet generally get 2 3 or 4 times the wages. And cannot get sacked unless for a breach of discipline.

[TRL]

You are entitled to your opinion even though you are a prat.

You know I am a prat? my missus took 5 years to realise that. Well done on your observations

[TRUEBRIT66]

Take a look a TrueBrits first post, this is what I am refering to. Just poking fun at a guy who lost his job. I would like to see a reation if he had done the same to someone who had just lost there job face to face.

I am presuming he wouldn't of.

Millen was getting bad results, and in this indusrty that cost you your job. But that is not to say he put hell of a lot of effort above and beyond what most people would do to get it right. Clearly he didn't get it right, but it wasn't for a lack of trying, working 15 hour days only for indvidual mistakes and gutless performances to lose him his job.

People look all to quickly at the results, which is fair enough. They just don't see all the time, passion and personal life used trying to get things right. I am sure the players don't work even half the time the manager does yet generally get 2 3 or 4 times the wages. And cannot get sacked unless for a breach of discipline.

But your original post makes no reference to the ridiculing of KM, just how the tolls of being a football manager have affected his looks on a single picture.

At what stage have I ridiculed KM ? I have read the vast majority of posts and from what Ive seen nobody has ridiculed him for losing his well paid job, a job he was clearly not capable of doing and as such was sacked for, a scenario whatever your wage structure.

And by the way if you have a huge house and a massive mortgage and lose your job you can downsize, if you live in a semi detached house on a council estate that you can barely afford to keep mortgage payments up on and you lose your job (that you were doing well in, not sacked because you wernt capable of ) and get no severance pay, what options then ?

Working Class BS ? so be it, I know what situation Id rather be in.

[TRL]

But your original post makes no reference to the ridiculing of KM, just how the tolls of being a football manager have affected his looks on a single picture.

At what stage have I ridiculed KM ? I have read the vast majority of posts and from what Ive seen nobody has ridiculed him for losing his well paid job, a job he was clearly not capable of doing and as such was sacked for, a scenario whatever your wage structure.

And by the way if you have a huge house and a massive mortgage and lose your job you can downsize, if you live in a semi detached house on a council estate that you can barely afford to keep mortgage payments up on and you lose your job (that you were doing well in, not sacked because you wernt capable of ) and get no severance pay, what options then ?

Working Class BS ? so be it, I know what situation Id rather be in.

Well yes you replied to my original post, I replied to your post where you ridiculed him. Not sure where there is any confusion in that. You ridiculed him by poking fun about holidays driving a merc etc etc. What does that have to do about losing your job, it was just a easy target for you to take aim at. And there is no real need for it.

You are correct you can downsize, depends on the equity you have of course, no equity no downsize. Can you remortgage without a job? I thought you needed to have a job to qualify for a Mortgage, I know I did.

[Mighty Squirrel Kingdom]

I feel sorry for anyone who loses their job when it's not their fault, but that's not the scenario in this case. I'd be amazed if the board didn't sit down with KM during the summer and agreed a set of objectives for the coming season - he was employed as manager and so he must have been aware of the potential downside if he'd underperformed.

I'm sure KM will have been treated well by the club in terms of compensation. However...it doesn't mean that he didn't deserve the chop. We made no progress whatsoever over the last year and in a competition where half the clubs have changed their manager at least once in the last year he was always on a sticky wicket. I wrote elsewhere that we needed to get off to a reasonable start this season, I'm sure KM and the players knew that and they've failed to do so; their shortcomings in their respective roles are why we're in exactly the same position as we were this time last season.

It might have been a better career path for KM if he'd left City when GJ moved on and maybe dropped down a couple of divisions. If he wants to continue in football he's got enough experience as a player and a coach to get a gig somewhere, even if it's not as a manager.

[TRUEBRIT66]

[Frank Reynolds]

But your original post makes no reference to the ridiculing of KM, just how the tolls of being a football manager have affected his looks on a single picture.

At what stage have I ridiculed KM ? I have read the vast majority of posts and from what Ive seen nobody has ridiculed him for losing his well paid job, a job he was clearly not capable of doing and as such was sacked for, a scenario whatever your wage structure.

And by the way if you have a huge house and a massive mortgage and lose your job you can downsize, if you live in a semi detached house on a council estate that you can barely afford to keep mortgage payments up on and you lose your job (that you were doing well in, not sacked because you wernt capable of ) and get no severance pay, what options then ?

Working Class BS ? so be it, I know what situation Id rather be in.

But you evidently begrudge those who have become affluent out of working class roots...

[TRL]

[Riaz]

Its always sad when someone lose's their job.

But Keith Millen will be more fortunate than most - he'll be quite well off and wont have the usual worries that your average working class man will have.....

Feeding and clothing his kids.

Paying for the football/swimming/whatever kit or lessons etc

paying for xmas.

paying for their birthday presents.

keeping the family car running, mot, tax, repairs

etc

[TRUEBRIT66]

But you evidently begrudge those who have become affluent out of working class roots...

Do I, right thanks for that?

Begrudge.....no 100% not.

Non sympathetic when obscene amounts of money are paid out for failure....yes 100%

I take it yours and TRL's sympathy extended to the bankers who worked 12/15hrs a day on massive wages when they lost their jobs and ballsed this country up in the process, after all they may have come from working class roots and no doubt felt they worked very hard. I would presume you gave them your full support, I would imagine a few picture of them are floating about on the net where they are looking stressed and pale

[TRUEBRIT66]

I don't have to explain my logic to your mates, I have been the victim of redundancy, and the way this country is going I expect I will again. But hey ho, it is okay to have a go at someone because they earn/earnt more than you, and are made redundant in your world. To me it makes no sense.

Christ your hard work.

I sincerely hope you dont loose your employment and your company have funds to pay redundancy if they do.

Best of luck

TB

[Ron]

This thread has twisted horribly from its original, IMO poignant topic. Keith did put in big hours & spend a lot of time concerned about how he could better himself and the team - someone said this is the same for all managers, I don't think many care or put as much blood, sweat & years into their job as Keith did, and as much is said by the man himself last season when he spoke of trying not to take results too personally & take a step away from being manager when he was at home. You won't find too many men in this game whose wage you can justify, whether competent or not. Keith put his heart & soul into BCFC for a long time, and it's sad that towards the end he didn't get the results or support his efforts deserved. What I have sympathy for is that a man who worked so hard, loved this club and on the couple of occasions I worked with him was a really top bloke is out of work and will be consigned to the depths of history at City. Money doesn't really come into it in this situation; Keith said himself he would have rather gone on fighting than taken the pay packet & looked for pastures new.

[numbeast]

Putting aside Keith's payout for one moment it does appear the pressure of the job has taken it's toll on the man. He was caught between a rock and a hard place having seen how things turned out for Gary Johnson and his disciplinarian approach. Rather than throwing hand grenades he put in more hours trying to get a system the side were comfortable with, but he failed to see his softly softly approach was being taken as a sign of weakness. Does Keith deserve sympathy? I think so. Outside of the fantasy world that is football if someone isn't doing their jobs to a sufficient standard they are sacked plain and simple. KM may not have been up to the job but he would have at least stood a chance to grow into the job if the players had worked as hard as he did.

The level of compensation he will/has received will soften the blow to some extent but no amount of money will erase the disappointment of failure or the belief that he was let down by the players. As for people who are made redundant I am extremely sympathetic and they will struggle more than Keith financially. But they have the satisfaction of knowing they were in no way responsible for their situation whereas KM will always wonder if he could have done things differently or was it down to the players? Both examples deserve sympathy albeit of totally different reasons.

[BCFC_Dan]

Its always sad when someone lose's their job.

But Keith Millen will be more fortunate than most - he'll be quite well off and wont have the usual worries that your average working class man will have.....

Feeding and clothing his kids.

Paying for the football/swimming/whatever kit or lessons etc

paying for xmas.

paying for their birthday presents.

keeping the family car running, mot, tax, repairs

etc

The average man will have those worries but by and large his job won't be as stressful. He might have to worry about whether or not it exists tomorrow, and far be it from me to call anyone's job easy, but I bet he doesn't have all his work hinging on the performance of 11 other people and judged by thousands of vocal individuals, many of whom consider themselves fully qualified to pass judgement despite having zero experience of any aspect of the job.

A football manager's life out of work may not be so difficult and he and his family are unlikely to go wanting (though to be fair coaching at league one level or below won't pay vastly well) but the time when he's in work is far more stressful than most jobs, and the average "working class" job tends to come with minimal stress and worries that can be left at the office or factory door at home time.