red colin Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Im sorry to say it but i think marv is being shown to be a bit short on quality, i will never knock him cos he gives 100% every game but have thought for quite a while that he isnt quite up to it. he gets caught with the ball and miss places passes but gets by on sheer effort, cisse on the other hand passes better and covers ground so similar players but different levels of ability. i think he is starting to cause us problems he cant run with the ball and when he gets into goal scoring heading positions its pot luck where it ends up, he should get 8 or more goals from corners every year but as i say i think his ability lets him down. what do you think am i being harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murraysrightplum Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Can't fault the effort. At the moment it is working well in midfield with cisse sitting deep, killa attacking and Marv the middle man changing around causing havoc. I agree not the best with the ball but at the minute we have no better options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 You're not being harsh at all. He is a decent enough player but he has some pretty major flaws in his game. He is honestly the worst passer in the squad, makes Nyatanga look like Gerrard at times. He lacks common sense and tries some ridiculously stupid things (attempting to score a header from outside the box from a standing start?) He covers a decent amount of ground and wins the odd defensive header but if we are looking to progress then we need better than him. Cisse is a much much better midfielder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tales From The Front Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Im sorry to say it but i think marv is being shown to be a bit short on quality, i will never knock him cos he gives 100% every game but have thought for quite a while that he isnt quite up to it. he gets caught with the ball and miss places passes but gets by on sheer effort, cisse on the other hand passes better and covers ground so similar players but different levels of ability. i think he is starting to cause us problems he cant run with the ball and when he gets into goal scoring heading positions its pot luck where it ends up, he should get 8 or more goals from corners every year but as i say i think his ability lets him down. what do you think am i being harsh. I think a tad harsh, he has gone through a quite spell in terms of level of performance in the last 6-12 months. But is was up for it today and completemented Cisse well IMO, which allowed Killkenny to pull the strings so to speak. Dont forget he took one hell of a wack on the ankle from behind, which was the worst challange of the game. The Ref seemed to have it in for him the whole game, becuase of a few of his own fouls early on. Good gutsy effort today, they can't all be ball players over night some find it easier than others but we are increasingly looking like a team with balance and with players that complement each oither. Winthin that players like Maynard, Adomah, Killkenny will always stand out but you need a grafter as well and Elliott certianly is that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tales From The Front Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 You're not being harsh at all. He is a decent enough player but he has some pretty major flaws in his game. He is honestly the worst passer in the squad, makes Nyatanga look like Gerrard at times. He lacks common sense and tries some ridiculously stupid things (attempting to score a header from outside the box from a standing start?) He covers a decent amount of ground and wins the odd defensive header but if we are looking to progress then we need better than him. Cisse is a much much better midfielder. I think the Nyatanga / Gerrard analogy is a little comical but i get your point, still don't think Elliotts distrubution whilst not good isn't that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 We all love Marv but....... thats the gist of it isnt it? At one point today we were in a promising position just outside their box, Marv has the ball, he looks up and passes it 10yrds to......... a mIllwall player..... and yes his touch is woeful really for a pro but he does put a shift in. As for Tangs well ...... get Alan Hansen in...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Not the best technically but as it is right now, it seems a pretty good combination I'd have thought- one pure grafter, who will break up play, one player who keeps things ticking over and one with a bit more license to go forward and create. Would be nice if he was better on the ball though, but we are now seeing him in his best position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Marv is exactly what a opposition midfield hate, he is a destroyer and does the running for the rest of the midfield, so cisse can sit back and do what he does best, and allows killa free reign. Got to be one of the first on the team sheet, poor passer, poor control. Complete midfield athlete. An absolute must in our team and predicament imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Well let me put it this way. Without him and Cisse, Killkenny would not be enjoying his latest lease of life that is for sure, because without one of them Killkenny might have to learn to tackle and I can't see that happening some how. Basically Cisse and Elliott do the tackling for the 3 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoh Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Well let me put it this way. Without him and Cisse, Killkenny would not be enjoying his latest lease of life that is for sure, because without one of them Killkenny might have to learn to tackle and I can't see that happening some how. Basically Cisse and Elliott do the tackling for the 3 of them. but surely that is why football is a team game and not just the best 11 players on the pitch. and before a wise arse points out I am serious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Nolan Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Well let me put it this way. Without him and Cisse, Killkenny would not be enjoying his latest lease of life that is for sure, because without one of them Killkenny might have to learn to tackle and I can't see that happening some how. Basically Cisse and Elliott do the tackling for the 3 of them. And Kilkenny does the passing for the 3 of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 but surely that is why football is a team game and not just the best 11 players on the pitch. and before a wise arse points out I am serious Which is exactly my point, football is a team game and the 11 players need to compliment each other. Cisse and Elliott give Killkenny the time and space to play the game we signed him for which is passing the ball and long may it continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 And Kilkenny does the passing for the 3 of them. Which is exactly my point, football is a team game and the 11 players need to compliment each other. Cisse and Elliott give Killkenny the time and space to play the game we signed him for which is passing the ball and long may it continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Which is exactly my point, football is a team game and the 11 players need to compliment each other. Cisse and Elliott give Killkenny the time and space to play the game we signed him for which is passing the ball and long may it continue. Amen, Millen did'nt see this, Killkenny looked bad under Millen because most of the time he was looking up in the air trying to get the ball, now he looks quality a few passes he made today were quality, legs went, down to the long journeys with Australia i hope not fitness, as i have said get him in the right areas he will provide that pass, he always want's the ball, that's a sign of a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Amen, Millen did'nt see this, Killkenny looked bad under Millen because most of the time he was looking up in the air trying to get the ball, now he looks quality a few passes he made today were quality, legs went, down to the long journeys with Australia i hope not fitness, as i have said get him in the right areas he will provide that pass, he always want's the ball, that's a sign of a good player. and being played far too deep, so as he could just hit long balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red colin Posted November 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 We all love Marv but....... thats the gist of it isnt it? At one point today we were in a promising position just outside their box, Marv has the ball, he looks up and passes it 10yrds to......... a mIllwall player..... and yes his touch is woeful really for a pro but he does put a shift in. As for Tangs well ...... get Alan Hansen in...... well said will robinson... we do love marv if everyone put in his effort we would be happy but ,my point is this division , . dont forget is one div down from probably the best league in the WORLD the Premier League. i just think that effort alone is not quite enough at this level. you need that bit of quality like adomah maynard etc, but to be fair some of the points made on here like hes a destroyer and other teams hate that in your face type grafter has made me even more unsure about being too harsh . its about opinions but i think marv is a slightly weak link now with our passing game developing under del. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Marv did exactly what mcinnes told him to do and that was break up play I. The middle cisse sat behind him and Kilkenny was the creative force Only city fans will loom for a player to slag off when we are on a decent run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coxy27 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 You said you'd never knock him, then went straight ahead and knocked him! Haha. Your points aren't harsh, but I think to say he's lacking ability because of them certainly is. Some players are instructed to do exactly what Marv does, so in that sense you'd say he has good ability. I think he's an excellent option in a 3 man midfield away from home paired with Killa and Cisse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 You said you'd never knock him, then went straight ahead and knocked him! Haha. Your points aren't harsh, but I think to say he's lacking ability because of them certainly is. Some players are instructed to do exactly what Marv does, so in that sense you'd say he has good ability. I think he's an excellent option in a 3 man midfield away from home paired with Killa and Cisse. Definately, and also gives a a real goal threat from corners..... If he didn't focus quite so much on heading it down onto the ground and over the bar. Quality player at what he does, I am thankful we have him, does the dirty stuff so well, others can do the ball playing after he has won it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Definately, and also gives a a real goal threat from corners..... If he didn't focus quite so much on heading it down onto the ground and over the bar. Quality player at what he does, I am thankful we have him, does the dirty stuff so well, others can do the ball playing after he has won it. Liability at attacking set pieces, don't understand why we bother putting the ball in the box like that anyway, we're piss poor in the air and it never bares an fruit. I'd say also that Skuse makes more tackles than Marvin when playing in the middle and is far far superior on the ball. If we ever want to progress we need better than Marvin. I really wish (with the benefit of hindsight) we had taken the money allegedly offered by Wolves and Wigan. Saying that, he's been a great signing for us considering there was no fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Liability at attacking set pieces, don't understand why we bother putting the ball in the box like that anyway, we're piss poor in the air and it never bares an fruit. I'd say also that Skuse makes more tackles than Marvin when playing in the middle and is far far superior on the ball. If we ever want to progress we need better than Marvin. I really wish (with the benefit of hindsight) we had taken the money allegedly offered by Wolves and Wigan. Saying that, he's been a great signing for us considering there was no fee. Liability Let me know who else at city gets on the end of corners and free kicks?> if he is a liability what do you make of the rest of the squad! That would worry me more. I don't disagree pretty much every other player is better on the ball. But no other player gets in your face and rushes you into mistakes like Elliott. Skuse waits for you to come to him before making good clean tackle, very reactive like alot of our players, Elliot on the other hand is very proactive in going looking for the ball/man, and if he doesn't come away with it, the opposition surely haven't got much time to make much of the possesion they have. Give me a proactive hard working footballer anyday, In our current formation he is exactly what we need, not another reactionary ball player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Liability at attacking set pieces, don't understand why we bother putting the ball in the box like that anyway, we're piss poor in the air and it never bares an fruit. I'd say also that Skuse makes more tackles than Marvin when playing in the middle and is far far superior on the ball. If we ever want to progress we need better than Marvin. I really wish (with the benefit of hindsight) we had taken the money allegedly offered by Wolves and Wigan. Saying that, he's been a great signing for us considering there was no fee. it would be very interesting to see the damage that would be done to our present midfield and Killkenny in particular if Marvin was not playing. I thought he was excellent yesterday in a very strong midfield performance. Mind you, you seem to have seen Nyatanga hitting aimless long balls during the game, where as I only saw Mcgivern hitting long aimless balls mainly in the first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmabbuttshair Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Liability at attacking set pieces, don't understand why we bother putting the ball in the box like that anyway, we're piss poor in the air and it never bares an fruit. I'd say also that Skuse makes more tackles than Marvin when playing in the middle and is far far superior on the ball. If we ever want to progress we need better than Marvin. I really wish (with the benefit of hindsight) we had taken the money allegedly offered by Wolves and Wigan. Saying that, he's been a great signing for us considering there was no fee. Went with a neutral yesterday who ( normally watches prem football ) rated Marv highly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_BCFC Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 You need someone like Marv to do the dirty work and I think he fits in to the team fine. I don't think he will ever replicate his first season form but I thought he was good last season and remains solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Tansley Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Liability Let me know who else at city gets on the end of corners and free kicks?> if he is a liability what do you make of the rest of the squad! That would worry me more. I don't disagree pretty much every other player is better on the ball. But no other player gets in your face and rushes you into mistakes like Elliott. Skuse waits for you to come to him before making good clean tackle, very reactive like alot of our players, Elliot on the other hand is very proactive in going looking for the ball/man, and if he doesn't come away with it, the opposition surely haven't got much time to make much of the possesion they have. Give me a proactive hard working footballer anyday, In our current formation he is exactly what we need, not another reactionary ball player Yep, Liability. Doesn't score anywhere near enough for all the headers he wins and gives away numerous fouls in the opposition box. Needless ones too. He's also bloody outstanding at getting in other players' way at set pieces... I feel like I'm coming across as slating Marvin, Which isn't what I want at all. I just see a lot of aspects in his game that aren't good enough at the moment and have never shown signs of improving. it would be very interesting to see the damage that would be done to our present midfield and Killkenny in particular if Marvin was not playing. I thought he was excellent yesterday in a very strong midfield performance. Mind you, you seem to have seen Nyatanga hitting aimless long balls during the game, where as I only saw Mcgivern hitting long aimless balls mainly in the first half. Well, watched it with a semi-neutral. Local lad who likes city but doesn't go, if you catch my drift. anyway, his first comment was to ask whether we had ever retained possession from a Lewin Nyatanga punt and why did he keep doing it. It wasn't as bad as under Millen and he certainly wasn't the only one but Tangs gave the ball away on numerous occasions yesterday including twice twatting the ball clean out of play under no pressure. On to Elliot, I'd like to see the midfield that played so brilliantly against Burnley but with Cissé replacing Elliot. Got no problems with Elliot playing away from home, I would encourage it in fact(As stated above, it is not my intention to slate the bloke, simply pointing out his limitations which have an effect on the way we play.)I think Cisse offers as much (if not more) defensively and has the ability to pass the ball accurately more than 5 yards. I think he deserves Marvins place in our home games. Went with a neutral yesterday who ( normally watches prem football ) rated Marv highly As above, also watched it with a neutral and he commented that Marvin was very good off the ball but as soon as he was in possession looked awful. "Christ, even I would have made that pass" was one quote. I just want to (again) clarify that I do not intend to belittle Marvin and that I do like him, I just think that his passing is so poor and he gives the ball away so often that it undoes his good defensive work to a degree. Pointless winning the ball if you're going to just give it straight back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Yep, Liability. Doesn't score anywhere near enough for all the headers he wins and gives away numerous fouls in the opposition box. Needless ones too. He's also bloody outstanding at getting in other players' way at set pieces... I feel like I'm coming across as slating Marvin, Which isn't what I want at all. I just see a lot of aspects in his game that aren't good enough at the moment and have never shown signs of improving. Well, watched it with a semi-neutral. Local lad who likes city but doesn't go, if you catch my drift. anyway, his first comment was to ask whether we had ever retained possession from a Lewin Nyatanga punt and why did he keep doing it. It wasn't as bad as under Millen and he certainly wasn't the only one but Tangs gave the ball away on numerous occasions yesterday including twice twatting the ball clean out of play under no pressure. On to Elliot, I'd like to see the midfield that played so brilliantly against Burnley but with Cissé replacing Elliot. Got no problems with Elliot playing away from home, I would encourage it in fact(As stated above, it is not my intention to slate the bloke, simply pointing out his limitations which have an effect on the way we play.)I think Cisse offers as much (if not more) defensively and has the ability to pass the ball accurately more than 5 yards. I think he deserves Marvins place in our home games. As above, also watched it with a neutral and he commented that Marvin was very good off the ball but as soon as he was in possession looked awful. "Christ, even I would have made that pass" was one quote. I just want to (again) clarify that I do not intend to belittle Marvin and that I do like him, I just think that his passing is so poor and he gives the ball away so often that it undoes his good defensive work to a degree. Pointless winning the ball if you're going to just give it straight back... Just a feeling, I think Cisse is possibly carrying a knock, probably why he didn't play against Burnley, might be wrong, it could be one of those play one, sit one out jobs, could be putting off an op perhaps, I have no evidence just a feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Yep, Liability. Doesn't score anywhere near enough for all the headers he wins and gives away numerous fouls in the opposition box. Needless ones too. He's also bloody outstanding at getting in other players' way at set pieces... I feel like I'm coming across as slating Marvin, Which isn't what I want at all. I just see a lot of aspects in his game that aren't good enough at the moment and have never shown signs of improving. Well, watched it with a semi-neutral. Local lad who likes city but doesn't go, if you catch my drift. anyway, his first comment was to ask whether we had ever retained possession from a Lewin Nyatanga punt and why did he keep doing it. It wasn't as bad as under Millen and he certainly wasn't the only one but Tangs gave the ball away on numerous occasions yesterday including twice twatting the ball clean out of play under no pressure. On to Elliot, I'd like to see the midfield that played so brilliantly against Burnley but with Cissé replacing Elliot. Got no problems with Elliot playing away from home, I would encourage it in fact(As stated above, it is not my intention to slate the bloke, simply pointing out his limitations which have an effect on the way we play.)I think Cisse offers as much (if not more) defensively and has the ability to pass the ball accurately more than 5 yards. I think he deserves Marvins place in our home games. As above, also watched it with a neutral and he commented that Marvin was very good off the ball but as soon as he was in possession looked awful. "Christ, even I would have made that pass" was one quote. I just want to (again) clarify that I do not intend to belittle Marvin and that I do like him, I just think that his passing is so poor and he gives the ball away so often that it undoes his good defensive work to a degree. Pointless winning the ball if you're going to just give it straight back... Were you on the same FIFA licence course as Millen, you talk a shit, sorry good game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Liability Let me know who else at city gets on the end of corners and free kicks?> if he is a liability what do you make of the rest of the squad! That would worry me more. I have to agree with Jordan. I'm slightly puzzled why people think Elliott is a good in the air or at least when it comes to getting on the end of crosses at least? Take your point that there aint any others either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Yep, Liability. Doesn't score anywhere near enough for all the headers he wins and gives away numerous fouls in the opposition box. Needless ones too. He's also bloody outstanding at getting in other players' way at set pieces... I feel like I'm coming across as slating Marvin, Which isn't what I want at all. I just see a lot of aspects in his game that aren't good enough at the moment and have never shown signs of improving. Well, watched it with a semi-neutral. Local lad who likes city but doesn't go, if you catch my drift. anyway, his first comment was to ask whether we had ever retained possession from a Lewin Nyatanga punt and why did he keep doing it. It wasn't as bad as under Millen and he certainly wasn't the only one but Tangs gave the ball away on numerous occasions yesterday including twice twatting the ball clean out of play under no pressure. On to Elliot, I'd like to see the midfield that played so brilliantly against Burnley but with Cissé replacing Elliot. Got no problems with Elliot playing away from home, I would encourage it in fact(As stated above, it is not my intention to slate the bloke, simply pointing out his limitations which have an effect on the way we play.)I think Cisse offers as much (if not more) defensively and has the ability to pass the ball accurately more than 5 yards. I think he deserves Marvins place in our home games. As above, also watched it with a neutral and he commented that Marvin was very good off the ball but as soon as he was in possession looked awful. "Christ, even I would have made that pass" was one quote. I just want to (again) clarify that I do not intend to belittle Marvin and that I do like him, I just think that his passing is so poor and he gives the ball away so often that it undoes his good defensive work to a degree. Pointless winning the ball if you're going to just give it straight back... I agree the bloke needs to work on his heading as well as his passing, but causing chaos in the opposition penalty area is exactly what you need and he does it well. The problem i see is if you don't have Marvin up for corners then you may as well not have corners, because the rest of our squad seem unable to effect the game in anway from corners. Marv on the other hand will try and smash through a brick wall to make something of a corner. If others would do similar, then I may agree with your stance here, but on current ability from corners We will have to agree to Disagree. If we are going to play a 3 man central midfield as it seems, I think Marv is a giveme if you go to 2 in central midfield, then again it is Marv. If you play Cisse and Killa in a 2 man, Cisse is going to be pulled out of position so much to do Killa's tackling and running, making him largely ineffectual at what he does, alternatively you play someone other than Killa, if you play 2 in the centre, that way maybe you can Drop Elliot. But if Killa is to be the mainstay of the midfield, you need Marv in there to make up for his inadquacies imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Yep, Liability. Doesn't score anywhere near enough for all the headers he wins and gives away numerous fouls in the opposition box. Needless ones too. He's also bloody outstanding at getting in other players' way at set pieces... I feel like I'm coming across as slating Marvin, Which isn't what I want at all. I just see a lot of aspects in his game that aren't good enough at the moment and have never shown signs of improving. Well, watched it with a semi-neutral. Local lad who likes city but doesn't go, if you catch my drift. anyway, his first comment was to ask whether we had ever retained possession from a Lewin Nyatanga punt and why did he keep doing it. It wasn't as bad as under Millen and he certainly wasn't the only one but Tangs gave the ball away on numerous occasions yesterday including twice twatting the ball clean out of play under no pressure. On to Elliot, I'd like to see the midfield that played so brilliantly against Burnley but with Cissé replacing Elliot. Got no problems with Elliot playing away from home, I would encourage it in fact(As stated above, it is not my intention to slate the bloke, simply pointing out his limitations which have an effect on the way we play.)I think Cisse offers as much (if not more) defensively and has the ability to pass the ball accurately more than 5 yards. I think he deserves Marvins place in our home games. As above, also watched it with a neutral and he commented that Marvin was very good off the ball but as soon as he was in possession looked awful. "Christ, even I would have made that pass" was one quote. I just want to (again) clarify that I do not intend to belittle Marvin and that I do like him, I just think that his passing is so poor and he gives the ball away so often that it undoes his good defensive work to a degree. Pointless winning the ball if you're going to just give it straight back... There is giving the ball away and giving the ball away. Yesterday Nyatanga twice, Cisse once and Mcgivern several times gave the ball away in very dangerous positions that could have resulted in giving goals away. Also the 2 dangerous and unnecessary free kicks on the edge of our box were conceded by Cisse and Mcgivern, so looking at yesterdays game Nyatanga's, Cisse's and Mcgivern's misdemeanours could have resulted in a different result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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