Betelgeuse Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I think I read at the start of the season that a few youth players had signed 6 month deals rather than for the season. Lennox, Ball and maybe others? If this is true then surely they'd be released now? We haven't seen any of them any where near the first team. Anyone else remember reading this or is it all in my head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhyde Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10327~2356223,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportingmad0209 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10327~2356223,00.html Looks like they are here until the summer at least. If they show potential we should hang on the them for at least another year. I can't see many youth players breaking straight into the first team. We should give them a little more time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betelgeuse Posted January 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 http://www.bcfc.co.u...2356223,00.html Just Ball and Lennox expires in Jan 2012 then. Thanks for the link, I knew I read it somewhere! So does that mean they'll leave end of Jan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhyde Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 CITY ANNOUNCE RETAINED LIST Posted on: Mon 09 May 2011 Joe Edwards has signed on for another year, with Marlon Jackson soon to do likewise. Previous first-year professionals >>>>>>>>>>>>Danny Ball and Joe Lennox have both been given deals until January 2012.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< As part of a new development squad, City have already offered first professional terms to Bobby Reid, Joe Bryan (both for two years), plus Henry Muggeridge, Lewis Carey and Aaron-Amadi Holloway (one year). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Some of these players may not be given the chance to progress due to the large squad and high earners we have here. If the club/manager are unsure of a player we are probably not in a position to give them the benefit of the doubt and keep them on due to players like Hunt and Stewart clogging up the wage bill. Hopefully once we can shift some of the deadwood in he future we may be in a better position to take more of a gamble on our youngsters and starting pushing a few more through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhyde Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Some of these players may not be given the chance to progress due to the large squad and high earners we have here. If the club/manager are unsure of a player we are probably not in a position to give them the benefit of the doubt and keep them on due to players like Hunt and Stewart clogging up the wage bill. Hopefully once we can shift some of the deadwood in he future we may be in a better position to take more of a gamble on our youngsters and starting pushing a few more through. One of the other things is we can very easily and lazily get better youngsters from the massive Premier League squads. John Clayton has been in charge of the academy for something like 5 years, and we've produced one guy who's in and out the team in Wilson. Is that acceptable? It's a hard measurement to measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 One of the other things is we can very easily and lazily get better youngsters from the massive Premier League squads. John Clayton has been in charge of the academy for something like 5 years, and we've produced one guy who's in and out the team in Wilson. Is that acceptable? It's a hard measurement to measure. Yeah spot on. Caulker was a very good example of this. We are not producing anywhere near enough and just Wilson in the last 5 years is no way near acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 It's been that way for years, we just don't give them a chance. The only time I've seen youth given a go in recent years is when Benny was in charge. Our other managers haven't had the balls to do it, there has been plenty of opportunity, I don't know if they are more worried about losing their job than giving youth a opportunity, but only Benny had the mindset to see it through, and left pulis and Wilson a lot of decent young players. I tell you something, if Benny hadn't been here, Brennan would have fizzled out and left on a free, Benny gave him the confidence to parade his talents for which we got 1.5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 One of the other things is we can very easily and lazily get better youngsters from the massive Premier League squads. John Clayton has been in charge of the academy for something like 5 years, and we've produced one guy who's in and out the team in Wilson. Is that acceptable? It's a hard measurement to measure. It's not a hard thing to measure in my opinion. The answer to your question is straightforward: it's totally unacceptable. Compare this to the Cardiff and Southampton academies. Do we do this on the cheap or are the staff not good enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 It's been that way for years, we just don't give them a chance. The only time I've seen youth given a go in recent years is when Benny was in charge. Our other managers haven't had the balls to do it, there has been plenty of opportunity, I don't know if they are more worried about losing their job than giving youth a opportunity, but only Benny had the mindset to see it through, and left pulis and Wilson a lot of decent young players. I tell you something, if Benny hadn't been here, Brennan would have fizzled out and left on a free, Benny gave him the confidence to parade his talents for which we got 1.5 million. What annoys me is managers giving players like Stewart, JCR etc a chance over youth. I could understand if they were great players but these type of players are coming to the end of their careers and dont offer us anything. If anything they are stunting the progression of the younger players. But then again with the exception to Wilson, and perhaps Bobby Reid we hardly have many academy prospects that ever look likely to make a real break through and it needs to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 It's been that way for years, we just don't give them a chance. The only time I've seen youth given a go in recent years is when Benny was in charge. Our other managers haven't had the balls to do it, there has been plenty of opportunity, I don't know if they are more worried about losing their job than giving youth a opportunity, but only Benny had the mindset to see it through, and left pulis and Wilson a lot of decent young players. I tell you something, if Benny hadn't been here, Brennan would have fizzled out and left on a free, Benny gave him the confidence to parade his talents for which we got 1.5 million. ...and John Burn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 What annoys me is managers giving players like Stewart, JCR etc a chance over youth. I could understand if they were great players but these type of players are coming to the end of their careers and dont offer us anything. If anything they are stunting the progression of the younger players. But then again with the exception to Wilson, and perhaps Bobby Reid we hardly have many academy prospects that ever look likely to make a real break through and it needs to change. I agree with you, we are a buying club, it seems that is the mentality of our managers. To easy when the chairman is happy to chuck his money about. Trouble is, some of these kids may have made it if given a chance. They weren't so we will never know. Some youth players perform better in a first team surrounded by seasoned pros, but don't shine so brightly at lower levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 ...and John Burn You had to go and ruin it didn't you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I agree with you, we are a buying club, it seems that is the mentality of our managers. To easy when the chairman is happy to chuck his money about. Trouble is, some of these kids may have made it if given a chance. They weren't so we will never know. Some youth players perform better in a first team surrounded by seasoned pros, but don't shine so brightly at lower levels. Yeah thats a good point. Because of our large squad and high wages we often aren't in a position to take a punt on these lads either. I am hoping things start to change for the better on this front in the summer when Del can decide who is worth keeping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberporthbcfc Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 CITY ANNOUNCE RETAINED LIST Posted on: Mon 09 May 2011 Joe Edwards has signed on for another year, with Marlon Jackson soon to do likewise. Previous first-year professionals >>>>>>>>>>>>Danny Ball and Joe Lennox have both been given deals until January 2012.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< As part of a new development squad, City have already offered first professional terms to Bobby Reid, Joe Bryan (both for two years), plus Henry Muggeridge, Lewis Carey and Aaron-Amadi Holloway (one year). Maybe the club just haven't announced their extensions if they have as they aren't really high profiled players! Who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol_South_End Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Watched Colin Sexstone's review of the year on Player last night, he said one of the things the club will be looking into this year is changes to the academy, as in his words: "we haven't been getting value for money" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor10 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Watched Colin Sexstone's review of the year on Player last night, he said one of the things the club will be looking into this year is changes to the academy, as in his words: "we haven't been getting value for money" At least it is being acknowledged and not brushed under the carpet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaverface Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 I agree with you, we are a buying club, it seems that is the mentality of our managers. To easy when the chairman is happy to chuck his money about. Trouble is, some of these kids may have made it if given a chance. They weren't so we will never know. Some youth players perform better in a first team surrounded by seasoned pros, but don't shine so brightly at lower levels. Agreed. Our Academy has been playing (and beating sometimes) some of the top academies in the Country and yet, the other clubs players seem to go on and do ok, but ours don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john shaws hair Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Just Ball and Lennox expires in Jan 2012 then. Thanks for the link, I knew I read it somewhere! So does that mean they'll leave end of Jan? for what its worth ive been told both these players have been released , jackson and edwards back out on loan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberporthbcfc Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 for what its worth ive been told both these players have been released , jackson and edwards back out on loan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibs Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I agree with you, we are a buying club, it seems that is the mentality of our managers. To easy when the chairman is happy to chuck his money about. Trouble is, some of these kids may have made it if given a chance. They weren't so we will never know. Some youth players perform better in a first team surrounded by seasoned pros, but don't shine so brightly at lower levels. Completely agree TRL. Ray Houghton (I think) was saying something similar on TalkSport today. Some players find it easier the higher they go. Just because somebody looks average on loan in the lower reaches, doesn't necessarily mean they aren't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 for what its worth ive been told both these players have been released , Well, you're half right...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john shaws hair Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Well, you're half right...... oh right well i new one was gone so i assumed the other would be with all his injurys etc but if thats not the case i stand corrected cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Gary Johnsons record of playing youth was absolutely attrocious, even when we had nothing to play for he wouldn't give them a chance. He was exactly the same at Yeovil too. Millen was willing to try out younger players, as was Tinnion, I believe the talent is there, their results against some of the better academies back it up, they just needed an opportunity. I don't mean keep shipping out the same players out on loan here there and everywhere either. I wonder how many parents were put off bringing their kids to the club because of this block on first team game time. The club doesn't have a successful way of bringing through 18-20 year olds into the first team, there must be some reason why they don't kick on, of course you are going to have a few barren years, but it's been a long time since we had a group like Coles,Doherty, Brown etc. Cardiffs academy is light years ahead of ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 I seem to remember a saints fan saying del doesn't like using youngsters either. God knows what thread it was on, there were loads back then. So I would be very surprised to see the use of our academy improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb6162 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 It's not a hard thing to measure in my opinion. The answer to your question is straightforward: it's totally unacceptable. Compare this to the Cardiff and Southampton academies. Do we do this on the cheap or are the staff not good enough? Cardiff brought on Theo Wharton on Saturday (17) product of the academy against WBA in the cup, great future, a bit lazy, but keep an eye out for him, however who else have they brought through ?? massive youth squad but they don't deliver In fact all 6 players they released last winter have gone on to professional clubs including Declan Daley now at Man united. So they dont get it right either. Not sure about Southampton, but trust me Matthew Crocker Ex Cardiff head of youth and Terry Moore his assistant wouldn't recognise a class act if it bit them on the bum. The problem with all youth teams is that as soon as they start playing for 3 points (at U18s) the football they have been taught for 8 years go out of the window to an extent. John Clayton is a great guy and does believe in youth progression, but lets face it he has to deliver results as well as ridiculous as that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb6162 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Gary Johnsons record of playing youth was absolutely attrocious, even when we had nothing to play for he wouldn't give them a chance. He was exactly the same at Yeovil too. Millen was willing to try out younger players, as was Tinnion, I believe the talent is there, their results against some of the better academies back it up, they just needed an opportunity. I don't mean keep shipping out the same players out on loan here there and everywhere either. I wonder how many parents were put off bringing their kids to the club because of this block on first team game time. The club doesn't have a successful way of bringing through 18-20 year olds into the first team, there must be some reason why they don't kick on, of course you are going to have a few barren years, but it's been a long time since we had a group like Coles,Doherty, Brown etc. Cardiffs academy is light years ahead of ours. Cardiff's academy is not light years ahead, where on earth did you get that from ?? And on what authority do you make that call ? it ain't on facilities and it ain't on results either to be fair. I know both academies intimately, the grass is always greener, but trust me you have that one wrong Cardiff were beaten 5-1 at home by reading on Saturday who are second in the youth league, they lost 4-2 to Villa the game before who are half way down the league our 18s beat villa 3-1 just before Xmas and lost narrowly 1-0 to Coventry on Saturday who are Top of the league, our guys played all the football. we have 7 1st year scholars making the 18s regularly, Cardiff have two... Theo Wharton and Josh Yorath, the rest are second years who will inevitably be released come the spring. Bristol have a great system of playing younger players up the age groups, that doesn't happen at Cardiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhyde Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Bristol have a great system of playing younger players up the age groups, that doesn't happen at Cardiff. Do you actually get what the purpose of the academy is? It's to produce players that either play for the club, or can be sold at a profit. League results do not matter, team performances do not matter. You want to produce individual players capable of actually playing at the level we play at or above. That's the brutal harsh reality. The commodities we manufacture are sub standard for the investment applied. And it's probably as we see from the lack of them around the first team, too late for the older players here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djb6162 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Of course i understand that point, my son has been involved in academy football since he was an eight year old and i have travelled the country far and wide and probably visited them all over the last 9 years. However my reply had nothing to do with your response !!!!! i simply responded to the comment about Cardiff's academy being light years ahead of Bristol's, that simply isn't true and i simply gave some facts to substantiate my point. The crisis in Bristol's first team is a completely different discussion to that of the academy, if you watch any academy club, even at the very top, the system rarely produces players who make the first team at the club where they serve. Generally they are released or find other clubs and either progress from there or drift from the game completely. At present Bristol's youth team has several players who will in my opinion make it, possibly not at Bristol City but they will make it at some level. Joe Bryan, Bobby Reid, Aaron Amadi Holloway, amongst the current crop of first year pros for starters, and amongst the first and second year scholars we have some really promising players. If you watch them regularly then please continue to comment about them and i will listen, but if you dont then simply dont judge them because they haven't made the first team at Bristol City. The reserves have players who are not making the first team, i can reel them all off if you wish me to Ribero, Jackson, Clarkson,hunt spence bolasie i can go on,, so the coaches are under pressure to play those guys in all reserve team fixtures simply to justify their wages, until the club sorts that issue out, how on earth are first and second year scholars ever going to make it to that team never mind the first team. So please dont ask me if i understand the academy system, its an insult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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