chipdawg Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 No it wasnt! Kompany's feet arent off the ground. At worst he would have been tripped! Watch the other video and you an clearly see both his feet were off the ground. I originally thought it was a sending off to the letter of the law, but watching the second clip it was just a plain sending off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Probably for the best because it shows that almost everything you've said in this thread is completely wrong and it would upset your fixed point of view. Although it isn't actually relevant, both his feet were completely off the ground. If you're not willing to look, stop talking bollocks. It is a fixed point of view. I've seen the original challenge live and repeated many times - He could'nt have tackled any better. His left foot may have been off the ground, but wasnt going towards nani. My opinion is simple. If that is a red card, then every tackle is a red card - and every tackle is dangerous. I cant see how less dangerous it can get - If we are talking about what could happen all the time, any tackle could injure a player!. Get rid of the doubt and ban tackling. We all know where we stand, players like Kompany will stay on the field of play and games wont be ruined like it was saturday. Maybe I will watch your video when I get time, but I cant see it will make much difference. I'm not talking bollox - I just dont agree with your opinion or probabaly the guy in that video's opinion. In my opinion, anyone claiming that to be a red card or even a foul is talking bollox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigfatdave Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 The slow mo ( which the League disiplinary committe will no doubt have) clearly shows.... A. a two footed tackle and............ B. At one time both feet off the ground. Refs Decision based on what he saw...RED. Whether right, wrong or indifferent if you cant see that for your self then you are either in denial, blind or stupid. I looked in Mondays papers and they all confirmed that Kompany was sent off. End of Story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigfatdave Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fodbarmyarmy Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 If you're not willing to look, stop talking bollocks. Well said sir... :clapping: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 It is a fixed point of view. I've seen the original challenge live and repeated many times - He could'nt have tackled any better. His left foot may have been off the ground, but wasnt going towards nani. My opinion is simple. If that is a red card, then every tackle is a red card - and every tackle is dangerous. I cant see how less dangerous it can get - If we are talking about what could happen all the time, any tackle could injure a player!. Get rid of the doubt and ban tackling. We all know where we stand, players like Kompany will stay on the field of play and games wont be ruined like it was saturday. Maybe I will watch your video when I get time, but I cant see it will make much difference. I'm not talking bollox - I just dont agree with your opinion or probabaly the guy in that video's opinion. In my opinion, anyone claiming that to be a red card or even a foul is talking bollox. You normally talk a decent amount of sense, but to refuse to even consider watching the other video is making you look quite stupid. My oppinions of the sending off are mixed. I can see why people think it wasnt dangerous (mostly because a, the worst didnt happen and b, Nani didnt playact) however, I dont think you can argue that excessive force was used. If you make a conscious decision to jump so that both your feet leave the ground at the same time, at that moment in time you are out of control of your body and the consequences. You are also throwing your whole body weight into the tackle. That is excessive force. I think the influx in bad tackles is made to look worse by the increase in Video Replays. How many people, like myself, after watching the tackle at normal speed and live, were baffled as to why Kompany had been sent off? It wasnt until you watched the replay a couple of times, in slow motion, that you realised how bad it was. As for Rooney, I dont think hes asked for Kompany to be sent off, hes clearly seen the 2 footed tackle and made this clear to the ref. The more I see it, the less I have an issue with what Rooney did. If one of my team mates was "tackled" like that on Saturday / Sunday I would also be telling the ref that its a two footed tackle and theres no place for it. As a player youve got to remember, it COULD have been more serious, and it COULD be you next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I don't know where this idea that players of yesteryear never used sliding tackles (as they were called back in my day). They did, as did I when I played as a no nonsense full back in the Bridgwater & District Sunday League Half the players in every game in the 70s would've been sent of if you applied Foy's interpretation of the rules. IMO Kompany slides to take the ball from Nani ahead of his feet. He doesn't aim at the man or seek contact and the only reason Nani has to vault him was because he was running at pace and couldn't have stopped. I think at worst, they'd have got in a tangle if the tackle was mis-timed and Kompany would've been at the greatest risk of inadvertent injury. I agree with Riaz that the sending off ruined the game - and I speak as someone who hates Man City even more than I do Man U!! Anyway, we all seem to agree that two footed challenges are not per se a red card offence, only if they are deemed dangerous. I honestly can't see how you can argue that that one was. It was - as has been said - perfectly timed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpin Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 What a surprise... http://www.mcfc.co.uk/News/Team-news/2012/January/Vincent%20Kompany%20loses%20appeal%20over%20Manchester%20derby%20red%20card%20result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 What a surprise... http://www.mcfc.co.u...20card%20result Football has become a joke. We've all seen it coming, but now its finally here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think it was Steve Bruce who said the FA were a kangaroo court. No further comment necessary. The interestingly named Professional Game Match Officials Board have issued the following statement: "A player who jumps into a tackle two-footed is not in control of himself and therefore if he makes contact with the player, ball and player, or if the referee determines there to be excessive malice in the challenge, he will be dismissed." Clearly the first two points don't apply and I'm at a loss how someone could deem the tackle as 'extreme malice'. If they want to outlaw two-footed tackles they just need to come clearly out and say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Football has become a joke. We've all seen it coming, but now its finally here. Couldn't agree more. Football has become a shadow of it's former self, that pathetic red card and the rules which deem it illegal, mirror the sanitised atmosphere in which we now watch our once beautiful game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think it was Steve Bruce who said the FA were a kangaroo court. No further comment necessary. The interestingly named Professional Game Match Officials Board have issued the following statement: "A player who jumps into a tackle two-footed is not in control of himself and therefore if he makes contact with the player, ball and player, or if the referee determines there to be excessive malice in the challenge, he will be dismissed." Clearly the first two points don't apply and I'm at a loss how someone could deem the tackle as 'extreme malice'. If they want to outlaw two-footed tackles they just need to come clearly out and say it. How do they not apply? He left the ground, and BOTH feet went in the direction of the player. you dont have to make contact with both feet for it to be two-footed... you dont even need to make contact for it to be a red card. The only thing you can defend is there was clearly no malicious intent. Two-footed tackles have been outlawed for a long time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 How do they not apply? He left the ground, and BOTH feet went in the direction of the player. you dont have to make contact with both feet for it to be two-footed... you dont even need to make contact for it to be a red card. The only thing you can defend is there was clearly no malicious intent. Two-footed tackles have been outlawed for a long time! How do you tackle, without "leaving the ground" ? how does your feet make the tackle without doing the splits?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 How do they not apply? He left the ground, and BOTH feet went in the direction of the player. you dont have to make contact with both feet for it to be two-footed... you dont even need to make contact for it to be a red card. The only thing you can defend is there was clearly no malicious intent. Two-footed tackles have been outlawed for a long time! But that's the point Marcus, they aren't illegal. Only ones that as the ref said make contact with the player - or the player and the ball (those are the two points that don't apply) OR are deemed made with "excessive malice". Now, I don't see taking the ball that's running ahead of a player away from him cleanly as "excessive malice" but clearly you (and Chris Foy - a very, very poor ref) do. If that's to be the case you might as well amend the rules to make clear that all two-footed tackles are deemed "excessive malice" and everyone would know where they stand. As Tomarse says, the inconsistency is the problem here. Then we could go on watching a game with hardly any tackling but where players are unpenalised for putting opponents in arm locks in dead ball situations and pulling them off the ball. Or maybe switch to watching netball or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
II Wurzel II Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Couldn't agree more. Football has become a shadow of it's former self, that pathetic red card and the rules which deem it illegal, mirror the sanitised atmosphere in which we now watch our once beautiful game. Same.....its spoiling the game big time, also us fans moan that players don't show enough passion for the club anymore but its getting impossible to do so. If you go in hard blooded tackle your booked, if you celebrate by the fans your booked, if you argue a decision your booked. God knows what its going to be like in 5 years time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 But that's the point Marcus, they aren't illegal. Only ones that as the ref said make contact with the player - or the player and the ball (those are the two points that don't apply) OR are deemed made with "excessive malice". Now, I don't see taking the ball that's running ahead of a player away from him cleanly as "excessive malice" but clearly you (and Chris Foy - a very, very poor ref) do. If that's to be the case you might as well amend the rules to make clear that all two-footed tackles are deemed "excessive malice" and everyone would know where they stand. As Tomarse says, the inconsistency is the problem here. Then we could go on watching a game with hardly any tackling but where players are unpenalised for putting opponents in arm locks in dead ball situations and pulling them off the ball. Or maybe switch to watching netball or something... I actually agree with most of your post, there was no malice (which I actually said in my post was Kompanys defence), and the inconsistency IS the problem. The ref is wrong by setting a precedent for the game with this being a red and then going against this marker and not booking Giggs for an arguably worse tackle from behind where he did not touch the ball. I just think people are choosing to ignore the fact that both feet left the ground, in the way that he jumped into the tackle, and at that point he has lost all control and is using force that could be deemed excessive. I personally dont think he should have been sent off, and at the time said thats a harsh Red, im just saying I can see why it was given. If you are happy to see these sort of tackles perhaps you should watch or play Sunday league, pathetic "hardmen" still drunk from the night before makign these sort of tackles every chance they get. Its not a pleasent experience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcfcbs20 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Old Tommy Doc would of lasted about 5 mins a game if he was in his prime now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 If you are happy to see these sort of tackles perhaps you should watch or play Sunday league, pathetic "hardmen" still drunk from the night before makign these sort of tackles every chance they get. Its not a pleasent experience! I didn't think anyone on here had ever seen me play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Kompany has just been banned for four games for that so called dangerous tackle on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 But that's the point Marcus, they aren't illegal. Only ones that as the ref said make contact with the player - or the player and the ball (those are the two points that don't apply) OR are deemed made with "excessive malice". Now, I don't see taking the ball that's running ahead of a player away from him cleanly as "excessive malice" but clearly you (and Chris Foy - a very, very poor ref) do. If that's to be the case you might as well amend the rules to make clear that all two-footed tackles are deemed "excessive malice" and everyone would know where they stand. As Tomarse says, the inconsistency is the problem here. Then we could go on watching a game with hardly any tackling but where players are unpenalised for putting opponents in arm locks in dead ball situations and pulling them off the ball. Or maybe switch to watching netball or something... Contact with the player isn't anything to do with it, nor is taking the ball, nor is how many feet you use. It's all there laid out clearly in the laws of the game if you care to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Kompany has just been banned for four games for that so called dangerous tackle on Sunday. Hasn't he already been red carded this season? I thought if you already had a red card during the season, each red card after that increments the next ban by 1 extra game. Or did I imagine that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 That sums it up, both feet in the air, completely out of control, no clue where he or the ball is going to end up. I don't care about the red, that is just bad tackling. Who the hell trains someone to tackle like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 That sums it up, both feet in the air, completely out of control, no clue where he or the ball is going to end up. I don't care about the red, that is just bad tackling. Who the hell trains someone to tackle like that? That's actually a kinder view of it than the one the ref got which would have been 90 degrees to the right and shows more clearly how fast he was moving at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 That sums it up, both feet in the air, completely out of control, no clue where he or the ball is going to end up. I don't care about the red, that is just bad tackling. Who the hell trains someone to tackle like that? I agree, the more you watch the replay the worse it looks. Even if we accept that it's a perfectly timed challenge, a player of his quality shouldn't be tackling like that and the only person to blame for the sending off is Kompany Also, would the reaction on here have been different if a Utd player (say Rooney) made that challenge? Are people also percieving preferential treatment of ManU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcliffe 78 Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Hasn't he already been red carded this season? I thought if you already had a red card during the season, each red card after that increments the next ban by 1 extra game. Or did I imagine that? Yes your right the statement Man C put out says it's four because it's second sending off this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 I agree, the more you watch the replay the worse it looks. Even if we accept that it's a perfectly timed challenge, a player of his quality shouldn't be tackling like that and the only person to blame for the sending off is Kompany Also, would the reaction on here have been different if a Utd player (say Rooney) made that challenge? Are people also percieving preferential treatment of ManU? Well, you look at it closely, the tackle is so bad he could have taken out Nani with the studs on the heel of his boot! what is all that about, when does anyone tackle with their heel. Anyone who can defend tackling like that clearly hasn't played the game, there is a difference between hard tackling and reckless tackling, and that is undoubtedly reckless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 That's actually a kinder view of it than the one the ref got which would have been 90 degrees to the right and shows more clearly how fast he was moving at the time. Without getting philosophical and all, I think there is a deeper question here. Alan Green, commentating live on the game, called it as an excellent tackle. I watched the review from one angle and thought "how the hell did he get a red for that"? Your video shows why he got the red. The tackle looks atrocious and another (earlier post) shows an even worse tackle. Is it possible that different things happened at Old Trafford depending on your time-space continuum? It's not like this is unique. Goal lines at Old Trafford have been 1 yard behind where they seem to be (from the linesman perspective). After 90 mins, time stands still until Utd score their goal. Anyone got Hawking's number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 Contact with the player isn't anything to do with it, nor is taking the ball, nor is how many feet you use. It's all there laid out clearly in the laws of the game if you care to look. Um, I wasn't saying it was Nibor, just quoting the ref's association spokesman. "A player who jumps into a tackle two-footed is not in control of himself and therefore if he makes contact with the player, ball and player, or if the referee determines there to be excessive malice in the challenge, he will be dismissed." So the question therefore is whether excessive malice was used. It's all here in the thread, if you care to look... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tel Posted January 10, 2012 Report Share Posted January 10, 2012 It is apparent, reading all of the posts on this topic, that there are many opinions of how the laws of football should be interpreted. In many of the Laws there is an statement that says '....in the opinion of the Referee....' and that is why each individual referee sees events differently. I am now in my 60's but in the late 1960/early 1970's I played football up to Western League standard ( there was only one division then). I was, as someone wrote in a previous post, a tough tackling, no nonsense full back who had the motto 'They shall not pass'. Of course, I knew ALL the laws of the game, didn't I, and the referees were always wrong. There were quite a few players around at the time, that played in the same manner as me, but i think I can be fairly confident in saying that I never used, or saw anyone else use, a two footed tackle in all the time i was playing. That type of tackle seems to have come into the game in the last 25 years. Hard, sliding tackles happened, but you went into the tackle with one foot and slid on your other knee. At the age of 27 a rather serious ankle injury meant that my playing days were over , so I decided to put something back into the game that I loved - I took the Referees exam and became a Referee. It was during my training for the Ref's exam that I realised I'd been playing all that time fully knowing only about half of the rules. I would recommend to anyone to take the Referees exam training and learn the laws fully.. You don't have to become a Ref., but it does give you a much better understanding of the game. It definately heightens your enjoyment when you can see the game from both the players and the referee's viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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