Impatient Fans - A Dose Of Reality For You

[Harry]

I read this on another thread today and it makes more sense that anything else I've seen in a few weeks on here. Quote below is courtesy of BTFRG (thanks) :

We're missing (in order of priority):

• A combative midfield
  
• A holding midfield
  
• A creative midfield
  
• Any midfield
  
• A left back able to defend
  
• Clean sheets
  
• Wide men with an end product
  
• A commanding centre half not afraid to put his head/foot through it
  
• His partner
  
• A non self-obsessed, reliable keeper
  
• Shape
  
• Presence
  
• Intimidation
  
• Commitment
  
• Pitman/Wood being confined to the box & given service
  
• A scouting system that unearths a few gems
  
• An academy that stops producing non-league fodder
  
• An end to the myth that we need a new stadium
  
• Clarks pies at half time
  

What this is pretty much getting at for me is that we have a very poor squad with which it is a hard job for any manager to get results with.

I've heard an awful lot of rubbish on here recently and some seriously concerning reactions from a lot of posters. I honestly can't believe a lot of you are judging the new manager after not even half a seasons worth of games. I've read some incredibly disheartening comments with some people saying we'd be better of with Millen, and that Mcinnes' signings have made the team worse.

I wanted to give you a few stats, just for some realism. And these stats will pretty much back up the fact that it's the squad as a whole which is not good enough and that the manager is seriously up against it with a poor group of players.

Millen had 10 games in charge this season, having had plenty of time to bring together a squad and spent nyon £2m in doing so. His 10 games in charge resulted in 6 points (= 0.6 points per game). We scored on average 0.8 goals per game and conceded on average 2 goals per game. We gained 2 points at home in 5 games against teams that are rated on average at 11th in the table.

He left us with a highly unbalanced squad of poor players having had time and money.

McInnes so far has taken charge of 22 games and has gained 25 points (1.14 points per game) - better than under Millen. We have scored an average of 0.86 goals per game - better than under Millen. We have conceded on average 1.45 goals per game - better than under Millen. Our home record shows 14 points gained in 10 games (350% better than under Millen) against teams that average 11th in the table (i.e. the same difficulty of opposition).

Now whilst the overall stats would suggest McInnes is doing a much better job than Millen, lets be fair and judge him on the last 10 games (i.e. the same Millen had this season).

McInnes has gained 7 points in the last 10 games versus Millen's 6 points. So only narrowly better. We scored 6 goals versus 8 from Millen's team - so 2 goals worse off. We've conceded 22 versus Millen's 20, so 2 worse off again.

So on the face of it, a slightly better points ratio, but we are scoring slightly less and conceding slightly more.

But - it's the home record under McInnes which gives me hope.

Even in this bad run we are on, comparing the 2 managers last 5 home games shows McInnes gaining 7 points versus Millen's 2. Scoring 6 goals versus Millen's 3. Conceding 9 goals versus Millen's 8.

I've said for a while now that we're not likely to pick up much away from home for the rest of this season, but we have 7 home games left against teams averaging 13th in the table. McInnes' current home record on average would see us gain another 10 points from those games. Now that may or may not be enough, I think it's borderline, but I am ever more hopeful that 4 of those home games are against bottom 10 teams - win those 4 and we should be ok.

One last stat - even if we lose our remaining 12 games, McInnes would still have a points to games ratio of 0.65, which is better than Millen had at 0.6.

So, even though we're in a poor run, look no further than the quality of the squad assembled over the last 2 years or so (£2m worth of it under Millen), look at the comments from the quoted post above for our deficiencies. Yes, McInnes was brought here to keep us up, and so far, if the season ended today, he'd have done that. If we are relegated, yes he would have to accept a share of the blame, but nowhere near to the extent that he should lose his job after having been handed this poison-chalice.

So please, once and for all, can we lay off all of the bull about sacking the manager. It ain't going to happen and it doesn't deserve to happen. And most of all, can we lay off the bull about us being better of under Millen. We weren't.

[The Exiled Robin]

Hear hear! What a refreshing, sensible post.

No-one can be anything other than worried under our recent run of form and somethig certainly needs to change but let's not forget we were far better than Leeds for half an hour.

The immediate change in atmosphere and attitude when Del arrived promised great thgins and it's a bit mystifying as to where that spirit has gone, but we've GOT to give him his chance to get it right.

Come on everyone, let's get behind the players and manager for these two home games - these really could make or break our season

[Mendip City]

I read this on another thread today and it makes more sense that anything else I've seen in a few weeks on here. Quote below is courtesy of BTFRG (thanks) :

We're missing (in order of priority):

• A combative midfield
  
• A holding midfield
  
• A creative midfield
  
• Any midfield
  
• A left back able to defend
  
• Clean sheets
  
• Wide men with an end product
  
• A commanding centre half not afraid to put his head/foot through it
  
• His partner
  
• A non self-obsessed, reliable keeper
  
• Shape
  
• Presence
  
• Intimidation
  
• Commitment
  
• Pitman/Wood being confined to the box & given service
  
• A scouting system that unearths a few gems
  
• An academy that stops producing non-league fodder
  
• An end to the myth that we need a new stadium
  
• Clarks pies at half time
  

What this is pretty much getting at for me is that we have a very poor squad with which it is a hard job for any manager to get results with.

I've heard an awful lot of rubbish on here recently and some seriously concerning reactions from a lot of posters. I honestly can't believe a lot of you are judging the new manager after not even half a seasons worth of games. I've read some incredibly disheartening comments with some people saying we'd be better of with Millen, and that Mcinnes' signings have made the team worse.

I wanted to give you a few stats, just for some realism. And these stats will pretty much back up the fact that it's the squad as a whole which is not good enough and that the manager is seriously up against it with a poor group of players.

Millen had 10 games in charge this season, having had plenty of time to bring together a squad and spent nyon £2m in doing so. His 10 games in charge resulted in 6 points (= 0.6 points per game). We scored on average 0.8 goals per game and conceded on average 2 goals per game. We gained 2 points at home in 5 games against teams that are rated on average at 11th in the table.

He left us with a highly unbalanced squad of poor players having had time and money.

McInnes so far has taken charge of 22 games and has gained 25 points (1.14 points per game) - better than under Millen. We have scored an average of 0.86 goals per game - better than under Millen. We have conceded on average 1.45 goals per game - better than under Millen. Our home record shows 14 points gained in 10 games (350% better than under Millen) against teams that average 11th in the table (i.e. the same difficulty of opposition).

Now whilst the overall stats would suggest McInnes is doing a much better job than Millen, lets be fair and judge him on the last 10 games (i.e. the same Millen had this season).

McInnes has gained 7 points in the last 10 games versus Millen's 6 points. So only narrowly better. We scored 6 goals versus 8 from Millen's team - so 2 goals worse off. We've conceded 22 versus Millen's 20, so 2 worse off again.

So on the face of it, a slightly better points ratio, but we are scoring slightly less and conceding slightly more.

But - it's the home record under McInnes which gives me hope.

Even in this bad run we are on, comparing the 2 managers last 5 home games shows McInnes gaining 7 points versus Millen's 2. Scoring 6 goals versus Millen's 3. Conceding 9 goals versus Millen's 8.

I've said for a while now that we're not likely to pick up much away from home for the rest of this season, but we have 7 home games left against teams averaging 13th in the table. McInnes' current home record on average would see us gain another 10 points from those games. Now that may or may not be enough, I think it's borderline, but I am ever more hopeful that 4 of those home games are against bottom 10 teams - win those 4 and we should be ok.

One last stat - even if we lose our remaining 12 games, McInnes would still have a points to games ratio of 0.65, which is better than Millen had at 0.6.

So, even though we're in a poor run, look no further than the quality of the squad assembled over the last 2 years or so (£2m worth of it under Millen), look at the comments from the quoted post above for our deficiencies. Yes, McInnes was brought here to keep us up, and so far, if the season ended today, he'd have done that. If we are relegated, yes he would have to accept a share of the blame, but nowhere near to the extent that he should lose his job after having been handed this poison-chalice.

So please, once and for all, can we lay off all of the bull about sacking the manager. It ain't going to happen and it doesn't deserve to happen. And most of all, can we lay off the bull about us being better of under Millen. We weren't.

Excellent post, well thought out. The people who run football won't do such an in depth analysis though.

Just out of interest have you compared Keith and Del's last,say, 10 games?

[fenric]

agreed, too much work needs to be done on the squad and the clubs infrastructure as a whole, this is a long haul job and constantly chopping and changing managers will not bring success long term to our beloved club. While we would all like to see us playing attractive, winning football now it is a case of somehow limping over the finish line this year to stay in the championship. And hope that we start rebuilding. This club has drifted ever since getting to the play offs and that only means going backwards. Lets hope we can build in the championship, otherwise we build in league 1. But we must look long term now.

[Harry]

Excellent post, well thought out. The people who run football won't do such an in depth analysis though.

Just out of interest have you compared Keith and Del's last,say, 10 games?

I did - it's in there.

[REDOXO]

I read this on another thread today and it makes more sense that anything else I've seen in a few weeks on here. Quote below is courtesy of BTFRG (thanks) :

We're missing (in order of priority):

• A combative midfield
  
• A holding midfield
  
• A creative midfield
  
• Any midfield
  
• A left back able to defend
  
• Clean sheets
  
• Wide men with an end product
  
• A commanding centre half not afraid to put his head/foot through it
  
• His partner
  
• A non self-obsessed, reliable keeper
  
• Shape
  
• Presence
  
• Intimidation
  
• Commitment
  
• Pitman/Wood being confined to the box & given service
  
• A scouting system that unearths a few gems
  
• An academy that stops producing non-league fodder
  
• An end to the myth that we need a new stadium
  
• Clarks pies at half time
  

What this is pretty much getting at for me is that we have a very poor squad with which it is a hard job for any manager to get results with.

I've heard an awful lot of rubbish on here recently and some seriously concerning reactions from a lot of posters. I honestly can't believe a lot of you are judging the new manager after not even half a seasons worth of games. I've read some incredibly disheartening comments with some people saying we'd be better of with Millen, and that Mcinnes' signings have made the team worse.

I wanted to give you a few stats, just for some realism. And these stats will pretty much back up the fact that it's the squad as a whole which is not good enough and that the manager is seriously up against it with a poor group of players.

Millen had 10 games in charge this season, having had plenty of time to bring together a squad and spent nyon £2m in doing so. His 10 games in charge resulted in 6 points (= 0.6 points per game). We scored on average 0.8 goals per game and conceded on average 2 goals per game. We gained 2 points at home in 5 games against teams that are rated on average at 11th in the table.

He left us with a highly unbalanced squad of poor players having had time and money.

McInnes so far has taken charge of 22 games and has gained 25 points (1.14 points per game) - better than under Millen. We have scored an average of 0.86 goals per game - better than under Millen. We have conceded on average 1.45 goals per game - better than under Millen. Our home record shows 14 points gained in 10 games (350% better than under Millen) against teams that average 11th in the table (i.e. the same difficulty of opposition).

Now whilst the overall stats would suggest McInnes is doing a much better job than Millen, lets be fair and judge him on the last 10 games (i.e. the same Millen had this season).

McInnes has gained 7 points in the last 10 games versus Millen's 6 points. So only narrowly better. We scored 6 goals versus 8 from Millen's team - so 2 goals worse off. We've conceded 22 versus Millen's 20, so 2 worse off again.

So on the face of it, a slightly better points ratio, but we are scoring slightly less and conceding slightly more.

But - it's the home record under McInnes which gives me hope.

Even in this bad run we are on, comparing the 2 managers last 5 home games shows McInnes gaining 7 points versus Millen's 2. Scoring 6 goals versus Millen's 3. Conceding 9 goals versus Millen's 8.

I've said for a while now that we're not likely to pick up much away from home for the rest of this season, but we have 7 home games left against teams averaging 13th in the table. McInnes' current home record on average would see us gain another 10 points from those games. Now that may or may not be enough, I think it's borderline, but I am ever more hopeful that 4 of those home games are against bottom 10 teams - win those 4 and we should be ok.

One last stat - even if we lose our remaining 12 games, McInnes would still have a points to games ratio of 0.65, which is better than Millen had at 0.6.

So, even though we're in a poor run, look no further than the quality of the squad assembled over the last 2 years or so (£2m worth of it under Millen), look at the comments from the quoted post above for our deficiencies. Yes, McInnes was brought here to keep us up, and so far, if the season ended today, he'd have done that. If we are relegated, yes he would have to accept a share of the blame, but nowhere near to the extent that he should lose his job after having been handed this poison-chalice.

So please, once and for all, can we lay off all of the bull about sacking the manager. It ain't going to happen and it doesn't deserve to happen. And most of all, can we lay off the bull about us being better of under Millen. We weren't.

Good Work! The problem really is the last eight or so games we have been awful we have shipped goals while creating little...A goals conceded ratio Millen V DM might be fun for those games!

I can happily go along with the players are not good enough theory because recently they haven't been, however they were good enough to beat Southampton take a draw at WHU and get us away from the bottom four and you have more than implied that was down to DM being being a better manager then KM. The latter may well be so however are the players good enough or not, they did little this season at the begining played well for a while under DM and now are simply awful.

Are we to believe the players somehow got better because Del worked some magic in his first month or two, but now have fallen back to their real level. If this is the case I'm not sure that DM wil pull this around at all as the dead dog rarely bounces twice.

It seems to me that we need a break, a flukey goal or something to raise the players heads and dare I say it hearts as I am not sure the manager knows what to do under these circumstances and really looks to me like he needs some help from somewhere right about NOW!!

[_Bristol-City_]

OP, you're a top lad.

[Rob k]

Quality post Harry, about time there was a sensible post on here regarding the manager.

[Jordan Tansley]

We already have a keeper who isn't self obsessed.

The need for a stadium isn't a myth.

Other than that, on the money.

[Murraysrightplum]

We were terrible when Del got here. We are slightly better now.

[Bristol_Badger]

With the greatest respect, you are comparing Del to one of the worst managers City has ever seen (Millen).

An improvement on Millen's results should have been the absolute minimum expectation of Del.

His job is to keep us up this season, and in all fairness he's making a bit of a hash of it.

He knew, and we knew, that the squad isn’t the best, but that’s what he's paid to do and sort out.

A bit of ambition and drive people, please!

[Murraysrightplum]

With the greatest respect, you are comparing Del to one of the worst managers City has ever seen (Millen).

An improvement on Millen's results should have been the absolute minimum expectation of Del.

His job is to keep us up this season, and in all fairness he's making a bit of a hash of it.

He knew, and we knew, that the squad isn’t the best, but that’s what he's paid to do and sort out.

A bit of ambition and drive people, please!

Understatement of the year

[Strictly Obi]

Trouble is all footy fans are fickle and believe the grass is always greener......it's not.

If we stay up or go down, lets get behind McInnes and build for the future.

Our club needs to take a good look at itself from the bottom up.

We have an academy, as someone stated that consistently turns out lower league and conference fodder.

Too many jobs for the boys, Walsh, Tinnion, Millen etc

Ultimately, we can't attract the better players. A new Stadium, will help!

Fans need to be more patient........god help us!

[Redcliffe 78]

Trouble is all footy fans are fickle and believe the grass is always greener......it's not.

If we stay up or go down, lets get behind McInnes and build for the future.

Our club needs to take a good look at itself from the bottom up.

We have an academy, as someone stated that consistently turns out lower league and conference fodder.

Too many jobs for the boys, Walsh, Tinnion, Millen etc

Ultimately, we can't attract the better players. A new Stadium, will help!

Fans need to be more patient........god help us!

The Acdamey we are moving up in status with that and this is where we really need to focus in the coming years, it's about time we as a club start producing top quality players we have the catchment area we just need good coaches of the class of Burnside when he was with us.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I read this on another thread today and it makes more sense that anything else I've seen in a few weeks on here. Quote below is courtesy of BTFRG (thanks) :

We're missing (in order of priority):

• A combative midfield
  
• A holding midfield
  
• A creative midfield
  
• Any midfield
  
• A left back able to defend
  
• Clean sheets
  
• Wide men with an end product
  
• A commanding centre half not afraid to put his head/foot through it
  
• His partner
  
• A non self-obsessed, reliable keeper
  
• Shape
  
• Presence
  
• Intimidation
  
• Commitment
  
• Pitman/Wood being confined to the box & given service
  
• A scouting system that unearths a few gems
  
• An academy that stops producing non-league fodder
  
• An end to the myth that we need a new stadium
  
• Clarks pies at half time
  

What this is pretty much getting at for me is that we have a very poor squad with which it is a hard job for any manager to get results with.

I've heard an awful lot of rubbish on here recently and some seriously concerning reactions from a lot of posters. I honestly can't believe a lot of you are judging the new manager after not even half a seasons worth of games. I've read some incredibly disheartening comments with some people saying we'd be better of with Millen, and that Mcinnes' signings have made the team worse.

I wanted to give you a few stats, just for some realism. And these stats will pretty much back up the fact that it's the squad as a whole which is not good enough and that the manager is seriously up against it with a poor group of players.

Millen had 10 games in charge this season, having had plenty of time to bring together a squad and spent nyon £2m in doing so. His 10 games in charge resulted in 6 points (= 0.6 points per game). We scored on average 0.8 goals per game and conceded on average 2 goals per game. We gained 2 points at home in 5 games against teams that are rated on average at 11th in the table.

He left us with a highly unbalanced squad of poor players having had time and money.

McInnes so far has taken charge of 22 games and has gained 25 points (1.14 points per game) - better than under Millen. We have scored an average of 0.86 goals per game - better than under Millen. We have conceded on average 1.45 goals per game - better than under Millen. Our home record shows 14 points gained in 10 games (350% better than under Millen) against teams that average 11th in the table (i.e. the same difficulty of opposition).

Now whilst the overall stats would suggest McInnes is doing a much better job than Millen, lets be fair and judge him on the last 10 games (i.e. the same Millen had this season).

McInnes has gained 7 points in the last 10 games versus Millen's 6 points. So only narrowly better. We scored 6 goals versus 8 from Millen's team - so 2 goals worse off. We've conceded 22 versus Millen's 20, so 2 worse off again.

So on the face of it, a slightly better points ratio, but we are scoring slightly less and conceding slightly more.

But - it's the home record under McInnes which gives me hope.

Even in this bad run we are on, comparing the 2 managers last 5 home games shows McInnes gaining 7 points versus Millen's 2. Scoring 6 goals versus Millen's 3. Conceding 9 goals versus Millen's 8.

I've said for a while now that we're not likely to pick up much away from home for the rest of this season, but we have 7 home games left against teams averaging 13th in the table. McInnes' current home record on average would see us gain another 10 points from those games. Now that may or may not be enough, I think it's borderline, but I am ever more hopeful that 4 of those home games are against bottom 10 teams - win those 4 and we should be ok.

One last stat - even if we lose our remaining 12 games, McInnes would still have a points to games ratio of 0.65, which is better than Millen had at 0.6.

So, even though we're in a poor run, look no further than the quality of the squad assembled over the last 2 years or so (£2m worth of it under Millen), look at the comments from the quoted post above for our deficiencies. Yes, McInnes was brought here to keep us up, and so far, if the season ended today, he'd have done that. If we are relegated, yes he would have to accept a share of the blame, but nowhere near to the extent that he should lose his job after having been handed this poison-chalice.

So please, once and for all, can we lay off all of the bull about sacking the manager. It ain't going to happen and it doesn't deserve to happen. And most of all, can we lay off the bull about us being better of under Millen. We weren't.

i'm not for sacking the manager, but 'impatient' fans?, all of the points you list haven't occurred overnight have they, Coppell failed to address any of them in his short term and his only legacy might be Cisse if he stays. Millen not only failed to address the problems but severely exacerbated the problems by signing crap and strengthening areas that we didn't need to strengthen and DMC has yet to fully impress with his signings, I think impatience is overstated and as fans we should at least have the right to see our team go down fighting and not with a whimper, that's not impatience that's reality.

[Kid in the Riot]

One last stat - even if we lose our remaining 12 games, McInnes would still have a points to games ratio of 0.65, which is better than Millen had at 0.6.

Good post. Think that's my favourite stat of the lot!

[Riaz]

I read this on another thread today and it makes more sense that anything else I've seen in a few weeks on here. Quote below is courtesy of BTFRG (thanks) :

We're missing (in order of priority):

• A combative midfield
  
• A holding midfield
  
• A creative midfield
  
• Any midfield
  
• A left back able to defend
  
• Clean sheets
  
• Wide men with an end product
  
• A commanding centre half not afraid to put his head/foot through it
  
• His partner
  
• A non self-obsessed, reliable keeper
  
• Shape
  
• Presence
  
• Intimidation
  
• Commitment
  
• Pitman/Wood being confined to the box & given service
  
• A scouting system that unearths a few gems
  
• An academy that stops producing non-league fodder
  
• An end to the myth that we need a new stadium
  
• Clarks pies at half time
  

What this is pretty much getting at for me is that we have a very poor squad with which it is a hard job for any manager to get results with.

I've heard an awful lot of rubbish on here recently and some seriously concerning reactions from a lot of posters. I honestly can't believe a lot of you are judging the new manager after not even half a seasons worth of games. I've read some incredibly disheartening comments with some people saying we'd be better of with Millen, and that Mcinnes' signings have made the team worse.

I wanted to give you a few stats, just for some realism. And these stats will pretty much back up the fact that it's the squad as a whole which is not good enough and that the manager is seriously up against it with a poor group of players.

Millen had 10 games in charge this season, having had plenty of time to bring together a squad and spent nyon £2m in doing so. His 10 games in charge resulted in 6 points (= 0.6 points per game). We scored on average 0.8 goals per game and conceded on average 2 goals per game. We gained 2 points at home in 5 games against teams that are rated on average at 11th in the table.

He left us with a highly unbalanced squad of poor players having had time and money.

McInnes so far has taken charge of 22 games and has gained 25 points (1.14 points per game) - better than under Millen. We have scored an average of 0.86 goals per game - better than under Millen. We have conceded on average 1.45 goals per game - better than under Millen. Our home record shows 14 points gained in 10 games (350% better than under Millen) against teams that average 11th in the table (i.e. the same difficulty of opposition).

Now whilst the overall stats would suggest McInnes is doing a much better job than Millen, lets be fair and judge him on the last 10 games (i.e. the same Millen had this season).

McInnes has gained 7 points in the last 10 games versus Millen's 6 points. So only narrowly better. We scored 6 goals versus 8 from Millen's team - so 2 goals worse off. We've conceded 22 versus Millen's 20, so 2 worse off again.

So on the face of it, a slightly better points ratio, but we are scoring slightly less and conceding slightly more.

But - it's the home record under McInnes which gives me hope.

Even in this bad run we are on, comparing the 2 managers last 5 home games shows McInnes gaining 7 points versus Millen's 2. Scoring 6 goals versus Millen's 3. Conceding 9 goals versus Millen's 8.

I've said for a while now that we're not likely to pick up much away from home for the rest of this season, but we have 7 home games left against teams averaging 13th in the table. McInnes' current home record on average would see us gain another 10 points from those games. Now that may or may not be enough, I think it's borderline, but I am ever more hopeful that 4 of those home games are against bottom 10 teams - win those 4 and we should be ok.

One last stat - even if we lose our remaining 12 games, McInnes would still have a points to games ratio of 0.65, which is better than Millen had at 0.6.

So, even though we're in a poor run, look no further than the quality of the squad assembled over the last 2 years or so (£2m worth of it under Millen), look at the comments from the quoted post above for our deficiencies. Yes, McInnes was brought here to keep us up, and so far, if the season ended today, he'd have done that. If we are relegated, yes he would have to accept a share of the blame, but nowhere near to the extent that he should lose his job after having been handed this poison-chalice.

So please, once and for all, can we lay off all of the bull about sacking the manager. It ain't going to happen and it doesn't deserve to happen. And most of all, can we lay off the bull about us being better of under Millen. We weren't.

This is a terrific post.

[Harry]

Harry's post is interesting in so much that, the way I see it, is that he is proving that that the bottom has dropped out of McInnes reign at present, his points per game is slipping and in terms of goals scored and goals conceded over the last 10, we are actually worse than Millen.

Harry's confidence in the current management from the above post seems to be such that he has completely written off our away games for the remainder of the season, and is pinning hopes on the home form pulling us through. However with a current record over the last 5, 7 points, as per Harry's post and only another 7 games to go. Continuing a similar kind of form would result in us picking up another 7-10 points only which would see us on around 38-41 points and relegated most probably.

It's hardly the most inspiring post overall, and is tending to say that Millen was woeful ( I dont think anyone would disagree with you on that score) but that McInnes currently, is marginally better, but that any semblance of form etc has fallen off a cliff

Point of Order is that McInnes with Millen's squad only, did massively better than when he has integrated his own signings into the team, Press releases such as this one released today could have the word McInnes replaced by Millen, such is the interchangability of it and the general feeling of angst, dispair and so on. It's not looking good on the face of it, yet somehow, this means that McInnes is somehow immune from being criticised for a number of reasons and should be given a free reign to sort things out, despite not coping well at present.

Yup, negative nelly if you will, but unless things suddenly and markedly change, and stay that way, it's not something that is going to go away all of a sudden

You're correct Ralph in that my initial post was seeking to point out that this current run of bad form is on a par with that of Millen's last 10 games in charge, but you're wrong to state it's worse - McInnes is 1 point up actually!

What I'm trying to point out is that the common denominator is a poor group of players and that in his reign so far, McInnes has managed to get a hell of a lot more out of them than Millen could. This was in response to a number of posters claiming that we were better under Millen, which is laughable.

You're also correct that I have pretty much written off our away games for the remainder of the season. Check my posts dating back to the Brighton away game, I said at that point we'd be lucky to get any more than a point away for the rest of the season and that we must rely on the home form to secure our Championship status.

I also firmly believe that at least 3, and definitely 4 home wins will see us ok, so yes I believe our average home record will see us straight.

I'm also continually baffled by your belief that the players McInnes has brought in are worse that those he inherited. You can only judge Pearson, who has played 17 league games, scored 2 goals and made 2 assists. That is a record better than any of our team bar Adomah. So I'd say he's been a relative success.

Foster has only played 9 league games. Ok, fair enough, they coincide with the poor run of form but I don't see that he is culpable for any of the goals we've conceded (in fact you can look at Carey & Fontaine for most of the recent gaffs!) So I think so far, he's been a decent signing but too early to fully judge.

Wood has played 7 games and has a good record in this division, so appeared on the face of it to be a decent signing, but time will tell.

I'm afraid you can't judge the others - McManus and Davis who've both only played 2 games.

Thus it is not possible for you to suggest that McInnes has a worse record with 'his' players, when of the recent run of bad form his 5 signings have not actually played together and in 2 cases only played 2 games in total? That's jumping the gun a bit don't you think? This is possibly why some people would label you as negative, as you've given a manager 22 games to judge him and based it on the signings he's made, of which only 1 has played more than 10 games for the club and been the 2nd most productive member of the team?

All of his signings have been in a position of need and that instills me with confidence that he is actually seeing the weaknesses in the squad and attempting to deal with them. They may or may not be a success in the long run, but I'd be confident suggesting that they're all better than what we had before. None of them are high risk as they've cost a total of £140k for Foster. We will see what McInnes is capable of with his summer rebuilding job, not based on the inept, passionless performances of players signed (or given extended contracts) by Millen which has handed over an awful squad for McInnes to work with.

[harvey]

Great Post...Even if we do go down i would keep Del and the doc in charge ...i know they will come good once they bring in their own players i beleive we will be ok, However it will be tough, Discerning comments like sack the Manager is no good to anyone. lets pull together ansd support OUR Team,

[Esmond Million's Bung]

You're correct Ralph in that my initial post was seeking to point out that this current run of bad form is on a par with that of Millen's last 10 games in charge, but you're wrong to state it's worse - McInnes is 1 point up actually!

What I'm trying to point out is that the common denominator is a poor group of players and that in his reign so far, McInnes has managed to get a hell of a lot more out of them than Millen could. This was in response to a number of posters claiming that we were better under Millen, which is laughable.

You're also correct that I have pretty much written off our away games for the remainder of the season. Check my posts dating back to the Brighton away game, I said at that point we'd be lucky to get any more than a point away for the rest of the season and that we must rely on the home form to secure our Championship status.

I also firmly believe that at least 3, and definitely 4 home wins will see us ok, so yes I believe our average home record will see us straight.

I'm also continually baffled by your belief that the players McInnes has brought in are worse that those he inherited. You can only judge Pearson, who has played 17 league games, scored 2 goals and made 2 assists. That is a record better than any of our team bar Adomah. So I'd say he's been a relative success.

Foster has only played 9 league games. Ok, fair enough, they coincide with the poor run of form but I don't see that he is culpable for any of the goals we've conceded (in fact you can look at Carey & Fontaine for most of the recent gaffs!) So I think so far, he's been a decent signing but too early to fully judge.

Wood has played 7 games and has a good record in this division, so appeared on the face of it to be a decent signing, but time will tell.

I'm afraid you can't judge the others - McManus and Davis who've both only played 2 games.

Thus it is not possible for you to suggest that McInnes has a worse record with 'his' players, when of the recent run of bad form his 5 signings have not actually played together and in 2 cases only played 2 games in total? That's jumping the gun a bit don't you think? This is possibly why some people would label you as negative, as you've given a manager 22 games to judge him and based it on the signings he's made, of which only 1 has played more than 10 games for the club and been the 2nd most productive member of the team?

All of his signings have been in a position of need and that instills me with confidence that he is actually seeing the weaknesses in the squad and attempting to deal with them. They may or may not be a success in the long run, but I'd be confident suggesting that they're all better than what we had before. None of them are high risk as they've cost a total of £140k for Foster. We will see what McInnes is capable of with his summer rebuilding job, not based on the inept, passionless performances of players signed (or given extended contracts) by Millen which has handed over an awful squad for McInnes to work with.

OMG, I hope you realise what you've just done, there is a complete dissertation being worked on as we speak.

[Harry]

OMG, I hope you realise what you've just done, there is a complete dissertation being worked on as we speak.

I know - I'm sorry, ha ha.

[cityhead]

Harry's post is interesting in so much that, the way I see it, is that he is proving that that the bottom has dropped out of McInnes reign at present, his points per game is slipping and in terms of goals scored and goals conceded over the last 10, we are actually worse than Millen.

Harry's confidence in the current management from the above post seems to be such that he has completely written off our away games for the remainder of the season, and is pinning hopes on the home form pulling us through. However with a current record over the last 5, 7 points, as per Harry's post and only another 7 games to go. Continuing a similar kind of form would result in us picking up another 7-10 points only which would see us on around 38-41 points and relegated most probably.

It's hardly the most inspiring post overall, and is tending to say that Millen was woeful ( I dont think anyone would disagree with you on that score) but that McInnes currently, is marginally better, but that any semblance of form etc has fallen off a cliff

Point of Order is that McInnes with Millen's squad only, did massively better than when he has integrated his own signings into the team, Press releases such as this one released today could have the word McInnes replaced by Millen, such is the interchangability of it and the general feeling of angst, dispair and so on. It's not looking good on the face of it, yet somehow, this means that McInnes is somehow immune from being criticised for a number of reasons and should be given a free reign to sort things out, despite not coping well at present.

Yup, negative nelly if you will, but unless things suddenly and markedly change, and stay that way, it's not something that is going to go away all of a sudden

Good reply.

What the OP fails to cover is that both KM and DM suffer/ed from is a stubborness to change what doesn't work - As Albert Eistein said "madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"

[Harry]

Good reply.

What the OP fails to cover is that both KM and DM suffer/ed from is a stubborness to change what doesn't work - As Albert Eistein said "madness is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result"

Sorry mate - I would disagree with this. McInnes is not stubborn to change. There's been change aplenty. Check out the threads week by week. One week 4-5-1 is not working. A couple of times he's changed to 4-4-2 and people moan that this doesn't work. He's attempting to change a poor squad by bringing in 5 players who are better than we had before. Change has also been forced through injury, with god knows how many different centre-half pairings being necessary in his reign so far. He's had Foster play in 3 positions, he's had Skuse play in 3 positions, he's tried Albert in varying ways to try to fool the opposition who know he's our one and only threat and are now able to snuff him out. He's tried 4 different players in the lone role up front. he's tried a few different 2-man partnerships up top. He's tried plenty of different things fella, and so far has pulled us out from 6 points off survival.

We have to face the facts that it doesn't matter if we play 1 up, 2 up, 3 up, 5 at the back, 3 at the back, 4-4-2, 3-4-3, whatever, most of these players are not good enough for this division and it's clear.

[Strictly Obi]

Sorry mate - I would disagree with this. McInnes is not stubborn to change. There's been change aplenty. Check out the threads week by week. One week 4-5-1 is not working. A couple of times he's changed to 4-4-2 and people moan that this doesn't work. He's attempting to change a poor squad by bringing in 5 players who are better than we had before. Change has also been forced through injury, with god knows how many different centre-half pairings being necessary in his reign so far. He's had Foster play in 3 positions, he's had Skuse play in 3 positions, he's tried Albert in varying ways to try to fool the opposition who know he's our one and only threat and are now able to snuff him out. He's tried 4 different players in the lone role up front. he's tried a few different 2-man partnerships up top. He's tried plenty of different things fella, and so far has pulled us out from 6 points off survival.

We have to face the facts that it doesn't matter if we play 1 up, 2 up, 3 up, 5 at the back, 3 at the back, 4-4-2, 3-4-3, whatever, most of these players are not good enough for this division and it's clear.

This!

[Bristol Rob]

Well the OP makes some interesting points, but it doesn't distract from the fact that the OP watches Strictly Come Dancing and the X Factor with his wife on a weekend - whilst 'claiming' to be playing Football Manager.

I think we should take everything the OP says with a massive pinch of salt.

[Harry]

Well the OP makes some interesting points, but it doesn't distract from the fact that the OP watches Strictly Come Dancing and the X Factor with his wife on a weekend - whilst 'claiming' to be playing Football Manager.

I think we should take everything the OP says with a massive pinch of salt.

I refute this. I mainly concentrate on Madden Franchise mode nowadays! And anyway - X Factor's finished.

[Bristol Rob]

I refute this. I mainly concentrate on Strictly Madden Franchise mode nowadays! And anyway - X Factor's finished.

I thought I'd save you having to edit it yourself.

[Harry]

I thought I'd save you having to edit it yourself.

Now that's where you're wrong. Strictly has also finished. It's Dancing On Ice now, heh heh!!

[Tall King Blox]

Harry, that post made me dizzy, well done, well thought out and well presented...fancy a job ?

[Macca Matt]

You, Harry, should be banned from here as you are talking far too much sense. I was only saying at the weekend that under the last 4 managers we've had (if you include the end of Johnson's reign) the team have on the whole been dull, unexciting and quite clueless. We have consistently been shipping goals with each manager in charge and whilst the man at the helm has to take some blame surely most of it should be laid at the players' feet as they have been the common denominator? I just hope whatever division we're in come the summer Del and Doc are still here and given time to rebuild a poor squad, something they have recognised and at least tried to change by bringing in Foster (some much needed pace at the back even if the jury is still out for me), McManus (billed as a strong centre half, we'll see), Pearson (some energy in midfield that can pass and score goals) Wood (to score goals but not happening for him here) and now Davis. COYR