SecretSam Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Now, I'm a bit of an outsider as I don't go to many games, but I really believe that although things are dire now, we should hang on to Del - whether we stay up (sigh) or not...it's not his fault that the quality isn't there. The squad needs re-structuring and that's a 2-3 season job, not a summer's work... Please, SL and the Board, don't bin another manager, it would be such a mistake... Let's just pray that we get to the end of the season still in this division and build from there, even if we go down let's use it as an opportunity to regroup and look to the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threshersleftboot Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Now, I'm a bit of an outsider as I don't go to many games, but I really believe that although things are dire now, we should hang on to Del - whether we stay up (sigh) or not...it's not his fault that the quality isn't there. The squad needs re-structuring and that's a 2-3 season job, not a summer's work... Please, SL and the Board, don't bin another manager, it would be such a mistake... Let's just pray that we get to the end of the season still in this division and build from there, even if we go down let's use it as an opportunity to regroup and look to the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Del deserves what millen got - a summer transfer window to assemble his own squad. Its not fair to judge him when he takes over during a season and is trying to pick up the pieces of the mess that Millen left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threshersleftboot Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 The manager brings players in, picks the team, and formulates the tactics if you are not going to blame him who are you going to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 agreed, We need stabilty not going down the gas route of 20 managers in 3 seasons, Del needs a chance to build his own squad he hasn't had that his hands has been tied as he's only been able to bring in mainly loan signings due to dross other mangers have brought in, If we limp over the line he's done a fantastic job, if we go down he needs a chance to build his own squad to try and get us back up, People calling for his head is whats wrong with football they want instant sucsess also know as the I want generation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 The manager brings players in, picks the team, and formulates the tactics if you are not going to blame him who are you going to blame. MILLEN. Its mainly millens squad. He also has had to rely on loan players during a season..... basically loan players that other teams dont want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Presumably, when appointing McInnes, the Board had two scenarios in mind for the season's end: - we stay up and need a manager to refresh the club in the Championship - we go down and need a manager to get rid of players we can't afford and build a side for promotion I'm assuming that they felt McInnes was up to each of those tasks. Good luck to him. I'm bound to say that no matter how bad things are at the moment the real blame for the mess lies with Millen and the board that stuck with him, and not McInnes. That said...I have almost no faith in our Board to appoint the right people into jobs. If It had been me then I'd have gone for someone with a track record in the Championship and a reputation to pull in new players...on a deal which ended at the end of the season if we went down. But if it had been me we'd never have appointed Millen and I suspect we wouldn't be in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 MILLEN. Its mainly millens squad. He also has had to rely on loan players during a season..... basically loan players that other teams dont want. Really? How many of last night's players did Millen bring in? James signed by Coppell Carey home grown Fontaine signed by Johnson McManus signed by McInnes McAllister signed by Johnson Adomah signed by Coppell Cisse signed by Coppell Pearson signed by McInnes Foster signed by McInnes Stead signed by Millen Pitman signed by Millen Kilkenny signed by Millen Bollassie signed by MIllen Wood signed by McInnes So four McInnes signings, four Millen signings, three Coppell, two Johnson + Louis. Does that make it Millen's squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC RISK77 Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 i agree that he has to stay and be given the chance to rebuild this team.... one thing i will say is that although Millen was most at fault i do think mcinnes has had an opportunity to strengthen the team and has brought in a few players of his own, and i am very dissapointed that he did not spend more money in January other than Foster and Pearson....surely there would have been money available and in the precarious position we were in we should have gone all out to back him to keep us in the league.... Also the loan signings have not worked out, only 1 goal from Wood and Davis will soon go back to Bolton having contributed nothing What i cannot fathom out is why there is no sign of any fight from the players, i at least though mcinnes would improve on the commitment shown under Millen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roe Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Is everyone still on the blame Millen bandwagon then? First it was Johnson's fault, then it was Coppell's for coming and going, then it was Steve Lansdown for some bizarre reason, then it was Milllen, now it apparentely has to be either Del or Millen's fault. Why can't it just be that we're not a very good club in the championship? We brought Del in for the long term, to hopefully build us into a solid championship club with the great ambition of being able to do what many other similar teams have done and get into the prem (Burnley, Hull, Swansea, Blackpool etc). As Riaz said, he at least needs a summer to be able to sort his squad out and have a fresh start. Then obviously if we're still struggling come next November (in whatever division), then he'll probably be seriously questioned but right now it's ridiculous. I still think we'll stay up anyway tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciderconnor Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 The players that McInnes has brought havn't really performed, and a good manager should be able to form an accurate judgement on whether a player is up to a necessary standard to achieve an objective. This objective is staying in the championship, and its looking increasingly likely that he may fail this objective. The players never look motivated to want to win a game and are very low on confidence. Again it should be the managers job to instill confidence. Tactically, hes showing signs of weakness. Waving the players back into defence when we were having a good spell at Pompey and looking like we may get a winner? And last night playing Pitman up front and continually playing long ball despite Watford having two massive centre backs? Experience. Well he has limited experience of management with a very small club in a rather insignificant league. Im starting to have my doubts about McInnes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Really? How many of last night's players did Millen bring in? James signed by Coppell Carey home grown Fontaine signed by Johnson McManus signed by McInnes McAllister signed by Johnson Adomah signed by Coppell Cisse signed by Coppell Pearson signed by McInnes Foster signed by McInnes Stead signed by Millen Pitman signed by Millen Kilkenny signed by Millen Bollassie signed by MIllen Wood signed by McInnes So four McInnes signings, four Millen signings, three Coppell, two Johnson + Louis. Does that make it Millen's squad? How many times does it need to be said. Its more about the players he did'nt bring in and the players he decided to stick with. HE decided we didnt need a replacement for Caulker. HE didnt get a decent left back because he rated mcallister. HE gave BOTH Gerken and James new deals, forcing Hendo to go. HE wasted all our money on wingers/strikers and then said we had no money for defenders! Just because some of the signings were Johnsons or coppells - he decided they were good enough for him (the defenders I mean) This left us with an unbalanced squad..... or in other words... A MESS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 The manager brings players in, picks the team, and formulates the tactics if you are not going to blame him who are you going to blame. Perhaps the players who are on the fcuking pitch!?? Most of them are just not good enough and who have been on our books for far too long now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Really? How many of last night's players did Millen bring in? James signed by Coppell Carey home grown Fontaine signed by Johnson McManus signed by McInnes McAllister signed by Johnson Adomah signed by Coppell Cisse signed by Coppell Pearson signed by McInnes Foster signed by McInnes Stead signed by Millen Pitman signed by Millen Kilkenny signed by Millen Bollassie signed by MIllen Wood signed by McInnes So four McInnes signings, four Millen signings, three Coppell, two Johnson + Louis. Does that make it Millen's squad? it doesn't make it mcinnes squad though does it and out of the 4 signings he made how many are perm, 2 Foster and Pearson (who is only until the end of the season) If he didn't make those signings who have we currently got that would do a better job, Defence we have Nyatanga who is out for the season, Stewert who is awful Wilson who is no better and Riberio who is injured Midfield we have kikenny who is lee johnson only not as good Skuse who is injured Upfront we have jackson who is not good enough What do you want him to do turn our crap players into world beaters? Wenger Sir Alex and even god couldn't do a better job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider_dog Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Really? How many of last night's players did Millen bring in? James signed by Coppell Carey home grown Fontaine signed by Johnson McManus signed by McInnes McAllister signed by Johnson Adomah signed by Coppell Cisse signed by Coppell Pearson signed by McInnes Foster signed by McInnes Stead signed by Millen Pitman signed by Millen Kilkenny signed by Millen Bollassie signed by MIllen Wood signed by McInnes So four McInnes signings, four Millen signings, three Coppell, two Johnson + Louis. Does that make it Millen's squad? Fair point, too many people knock Keith Millen but he did keep us up last season and in all honesty have DM's signings been any better than KM's - NO (apart from Woolford). I am not looking back at KM's tenure saying he was the right man for the job, but why people slate him so much here is beyond me. KM inherited a squad and kept us up last season, now DM has to do the same thing - anyone who has blind faith in DM as the savior of BCFC needs their head checking after last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Is everyone still on the blame Millen bandwagon then? First it was Johnson's fault, then it was Coppell's for coming and going, then it was Steve Lansdown for some bizarre reason, then it was Milllen, now it apparentely has to be either Del or Millen's fault. Why can't it just be that we're not a very good club in the championship? We brought Del in for the long term, to hopefully build us into a solid championship club with the great ambition of being able to do what many other similar teams have done and get into the prem (Burnley, Hull, Swansea, Blackpool etc). As Riaz said, he at least needs a summer to be able to sort his squad out and have a fresh start. Then obviously if we're still struggling come next November (in whatever division), then he'll probably be seriously questioned but right now it's ridiculous. I still think we'll stay up anyway tbh. Well, you name more or less everyone who's had a hand in the recent history of the club and I guess that to some extent they have put us in the position we are now. Others will have their opinion but for me the blame lies with Millen and Lansdown for appointing him. Lansdown raised expectations at the time of Coppell's signing. Go back and look at what he was saying...push to the Prem and all that. The wheels came off that wagon sharpish...but after people had paid good money up front to see a promotion push. Coppell - we were told - was the man for the job because he had the experience. Millen had no experience but the job was handed to him. By Lansdown, who had egg all over his face when his trophy manager signing walked out. And Millen was pretty hopeless from the off. And proved he was completely out of his depth by failing to address the glaring faults in the squad over the close season...meaning we started this season with a squad ill-equipped to compete in the Championship. In fairness to Keith the fault lies more with the man who appointed him and put him in a position to fail. I don't see that many people on here questioning Del tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 it doesn't make it mcinnes squad though does it and out of the 4 signings he made how many are perm, 2 Foster and Pearson (who is only until the end of the season) If he didn't make those signings who have we currently got that would do a better job, Defence we have Nyatanga who is out for the season, Stewert who is awful Wilson who is no better and Riberio who is injured Midfield we have kikenny who is lee johnson only not as good Skuse who is injured Upfront we have jackson who is not good enough What do you want him to do turn our crap players into world beaters? Wenger Sir Alex and even god couldn't do a better job Spot on mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Jim Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Perhaps the players who are on the fcuking pitch!?? Most of them are just not good enough and who have been on our books for far too long now. EXACTLY!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Fair point, too many people knock Keith Millen but he did keep us up last season and in all honesty have DM's signings been any better than KM's - NO (apart from Woolford). I am not looking back at KM's tenure saying he was the right man for the job, but why people slate him so much here is beyond me. KM inherited a squad and kept us up last season, now DM has to do the same thing - anyone who has blind faith in DM as the savior of BCFC needs their head checking after last night. Millen left us with 6 points from the first 10 games (12 if you count wigleys two games, where we played EXACTLY the same) and with massive holes in the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Fair point, too many people knock Keith Millen but he did keep us up last season and in all honesty have DM's signings been any better than KM's - NO (apart from Woolford). I am not looking back at KM's tenure saying he was the right man for the job, but why people slate him so much here is beyond me. KM inherited a squad and kept us up last season, now DM has to do the same thing - anyone who has blind faith in DM as the savior of BCFC needs their head checking after last night. KM helped sign the squad in fact apart from Mcinnes players teflon had a say on every player at the club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roe Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 And Millen was pretty hopeless from the off. And proved he was completely out of his depth by failing to address the glaring faults in the squad over the close season...meaning we started this season with a squad ill-equipped to compete in the Championship Or that nobody decent wanted to come here because we're only Bristol City and have had to pay stupid money to any of the known players we've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 The players that McInnes has brought havn't really performed, and a good manager should be able to form an accurate judgement on whether a player is up to a necessary standard to achieve an objective. This objective is staying in the championship, and its looking increasingly likely that he may fail this objective. The players never look motivated to want to win a game and are very low on confidence. Again it should be the managers job to instill confidence. Tactically, hes showing signs of weakness. Waving the players back into defence when we were having a good spell at Pompey and looking like we may get a winner? And last night playing Pitman up front and continually playing long ball despite Watford having two massive centre backs? Experience. Well he has limited experience of management with a very small club in a rather insignificant league. Im starting to have my doubts about McInnes. Me too and it's hard to argue with anything in your post. That said, he was dealt an extremely shit hand on arriving at the club and we looked doomed back in October at the bottom of the league having won 1 of our opening 12 games. It's too early to judge him, but there should rightly be questions asked. Foster, his only permanent signing thus far looks to be a poor addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Or that nobody decent wanted to come here because we're only Bristol City and have had to pay stupid money to any of the known players we've got. as soon as he left we suddenly didn't have a problem signing players, strange that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Or that nobody decent wanted to come here because we're only Bristol City and have had to pay stupid money to any of the known players we've got. Maybe - but having a manager with no charisma, almost no profile in the game and who'd had a pretty poor first season didn't help matters. Look at the sides that have leapt past us since the play-off season...they're not all in the football heartlands...but they're better run by better people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Jim Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 If we're going to blame people, blame... THE BOARD - for appointing Millen. For holding on to Johnson for too long when things were going wrong. For waiting too long to sack Millen. MILLEN - for not replacing Caulker, for offering Gerken and James new deals and therefore unintentionally showing Henderson the door, for not replacing McAllister, for signing dross like Kilkenny and buying fringe players like Bolasie and Taylor instead of addressing the spine of the team. THE PLAYERS - 90% of them are gutless, spineless and not good enough. Stead, Cisse, Adomah and one or two others aside, they are a total waste of time and have played appallingly all season. We could transfer list the whole bloody squad and I wouldn't complain. We shouldn't blame the new manager, who came in 15 games into the season, with the team adrift at the bottom of the league, with no money to spend, relying on loans and freebies (except the minimal fee paid for Foster), and a team of has-beens and never-will-bes. He must be given a preseason to rebuild and 15 games of next season AT LEAST. We'll probably be in League One, but he deserves a fair chance. His predecessor had a fair chance and failed miserably, and we're paying for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bywaterred Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Del deserves what millen got - a summer transfer window to assemble his own squad. Agree with this. That is a minimum of what he should get. It doesn't matter who's mess this is and who brought in what players and who's **** ups we are now trying to sort. That is the past del needs that summer to build our potential future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park End Boy Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 Point one...We are still a championship club, back the man till the maths make it impossible to stay up Point two...if we do go down it will give del a chance to start rebuilding the team, i use the term start coz there is no way that he will be able to do such a massive job during the summer break Point three..The thing that is needed is stability within the club, from top to bottom, and all working towards the same objective...Prem football...imo del will see this thru Thats three points, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm reading this topic in disbelief, it's like reading the discussions to keep Millen all over again, some of them are exactly the same. Here is a brief run down of the pro's and cons Reasons why McInnes should stay:- 1.Potential from Scotland times 2. He deserves time because of 1 and the Dead Cat Bounce 3. Err Reasons why McInnes should go:- 1. Poor Signings thus far 2. Poor Tactics 3. Poor Motivation 4. No Player Development 5. Poor Player and Team Discipline 6. Poor Results 7. Poor Goal Difference 8. No plan seemingly I think that about covers it. Why people are so keen to repeat the same mistakes and shift the blame away from the manager, when he is culpable for what is going on at present is beyond me. Its not shifting the blame. If Mcinnes isnt good enough, at least give him chance to prove that. The fact we are 4 points above relegation is a miracle that mcinnes has performed. Maybe he has made mistakes - but he is working with a very poor squad - and has had to make his signings during the season, where, only the poorer players are available and decent players are expensive. He had a HUGE job to keep us up and if he does fail to keep us up - at least he's made it close. Under millen we'd be relegated by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm reading this topic in disbelief, it's like reading the discussions to keep Millen all over again, some of them are exactly the same. Here is a brief run down of the pro's and cons Reasons why McInnes should stay:- 1.Potential from Scotland times 2. He deserves time because of 1 and the Dead Cat Bounce 3. Err Reasons why McInnes should go:- 1. Poor Signings thus far (1 perm signing 1 until the end of the season rest due to injurys) rubbish point 2. Poor Tactics like it was better before 3. Poor Motivation We got results under mcinnes so he can do a better job 4. No Player Development thats not going to change in 20 games is it? 5. Poor Player and Team Discipline Down to the players 6. Poor Results Improved under McInnes with a poor squad 7. Poor Goal Difference hasn't changed from millen 8. No plan seemingly The plan was to try and stay up and build in the summer it hasn't changed I think that about covers it. Why people are so keen to repeat the same mistakes and shift the blame away from the manager, when he is culpable for what is going on at present is beyond me. How can a man change a club in such a short space of time? name a manger who changed a club from top to bottom in 6 months with no money to spend and a poor squad of players? You expect far to much which is what the problem is with our fans 3 wins its play-offs 3 defeats and we are dropping out of the football league The last time we did well was with stability and giving some one a chance to build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted March 21, 2012 Report Share Posted March 21, 2012 I'm reading this topic in disbelief, it's like reading the discussions to keep Millen all over again, some of them are exactly the same. And I am sure like many others have just read your post in disbelief. You are the Flavio Briatore of this forum, thank **** you're not in charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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