GrahamC Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Just read in Plymouth's accounts that we paid just £20k for him, by my reckoning that means as Kilkenny was a Bosman and Ryan Taylor (remember him, where did he go?) was £150k, our total transfer outlay pre season was £170k!. Anyone wonder why we're struggling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Just read in Plymouth's accounts that we paid just £20k for him, by my reckoning that means as Kilkenny was a Bosman and Ryan Taylor (remember him, where did he go?) was £150k, our total transfer outlay pre season was £170k!. Anyone wonder why we're struggling? I said it then and a million times since. Our summer business was shocking - considering we had big holes and none of them were filled. It's the major reason we are in the position we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Horsman Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Just read in Plymouth's accounts that we paid just £20k for him, by my reckoning that means as Kilkenny was a Bosman and Ryan Taylor (remember him, where did he go?) was £150k, our total transfer outlay pre season was £170k!. Anyone wonder why we're struggling? And how much has the club subsequently had to pay out for endless loanees, temp contracts, mediocre utility players, compo to St Johnstone, paying off Milly etc. Milly was shopping in Football's Poundland.....what a false economy that proved to be Mr Lansdown and Mr Sexstone..................Let alone the looming financial threat of relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCAGFC Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I said it then and a million times since. Our summer business was shocking - considering we had big holes and none of them were filled. It's the major reason we are in the position we are. Billy Jones chose WBA instead of us. Gareth McAuley chose WBA over us. Andrew Taylor chose Baaaaaaardiff City over us. I would say that those players would have gone a long way to filling the gaping holes in our defence. What more could have been done?, who else could we have gone for?, after all our scouting network is useless and that was not Millen's fault, you can blame GJ (& others) for that. BCAGFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Exile Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Just read in Plymouth's accounts that we paid just £20k for him, by my reckoning that means as Kilkenny was a Bosman and Ryan Taylor (remember him, where did he go?) was £150k, our total transfer outlay pre season was £170k!. Anyone wonder why we're struggling? That's a remarkable statistic. Our struggle this season is a direct consequence of the failure of our pre-season. Wholly predictable - and predicted. Millen was out of his depth and I fear that a newly appointed Board offered him inadequate support...and when you look at the Board members is it any surprise? Barely any experience of running a football club between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Billy Jones chose WBA instead of us. Gareth McAuley chose WBA over us. Andrew Taylor chose Baaaaaaardiff City over us. I would say that those players would have gone a long way to filling the gaping holes in our defence. What more could have been done?, who else could we have gone for?, after all our scouting network is useless and that was not Millen's fault, you can blame GJ (& others) for that. BCAGFC What about these "lists" he had of players. I don't buy his excuses. He never had defenders as priority, because he didn't realise how badly we needed them - proven by his comments after Ipswich beat us easily "I didnt see it coming" - despite some of us predicting it. What more could he have done? Instead of spending nearly 2m quid on wingers and strikers - he could have invested in some decent defenders maybe? Or had back-up plans for the players you mention?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Billy Jones chose WBA instead of us. Gareth McAuley chose WBA over us. Andrew Taylor chose Baaaaaaardiff City over us. I would say that those players would have gone a long way to filling the gaping holes in our defence. What more could have been done?, who else could we have gone for?, after all our scouting network is useless and that was not Millen's fault, you can blame GJ (& others) for that. BCAGFC No blame Millen, his summer targets were totally unrealistic.....and his back up plan (ie the players we did sign) were next to useless. Make no mistakes we had a chance to strengthen the squad last summer and our rookie manager at the time blew it......and oh boy are we paying for it now. I agree Millen should not shoulder all the blame......that's reserved for the people who actually gave him the job in the first place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickolas Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Billy Jones chose WBA instead of us. Gareth McAuley chose WBA over us. Andrew Taylor chose Baaaaaaardiff City over us. I would say that those players would have gone a long way to filling the gaping holes in our defence. What more could have been done?, who else could we have gone for?, after all our scouting network is useless and that was not Millen's fault, you can blame GJ (& others) for that. BCAGFC Tbh i think that was more Millen name dropping to keep us interested. Clearly we werent going to get any of those players looking at where they ended up. I never believed Millen when he was chucking those kind of names in the hat. There was barely even any media speculation about them. Good bit of PR though preseason to get some ST's bought!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashtonphil Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I guarantee you that Andrew Taylor came to City for talks as I saw him at Failand with Millen.. So it wasn't just "chucking names around". He really did come.. He just chose not to sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsobigfatdave Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I said it then and a million times since. Our summer business was shocking - considering we had big holes and none of them were filled. It's the major reason we are in the position we are. The reason we are in the position we are in is because we have had a succesion of insipid, inadequate, unmotivational and tactically inept managers who would struggle at Forest Green or Mangotsfield..and thats the truth. Those Managers have generally brought rubbish to the club. If we have aspirations of rebuilding next year whichever league we find ourselves in we need to make the appointment that has the ability, contacts and knowledge accumulated in leading a successfull championship or Premier League side in order to realise those ambitions and to deliver. It was one hell of a risk chosing an obscure Scottish Manager and it has patently failed as a gamble. Im sure hes a nice chap but it seems hes lacking in all of the requisite credentials. If you want to win a race at the festival you put your horse with Nicholls, Pipe, Henderson, Mullins or King not send him to the chap who has a horse in a feild beind his house. and trains in a pub carpark... mediocrity and a "that will do" attitude born of parsimony will never acheive anything with any longevity in any club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Millen is the sole reason we are in this mess and he takes all the blame from me It a achievement we are out of the bottom 3 Mcinnes is fire fighting and the only reason we've made short term signings is to try and stay in this league The size of the squad our wage bill and the shit players other managers have sign is also to blame If we go down the road of sacking managers every 5 minutes then we may as well sell up shut down te club and watch downs football because it gets you no where bit relegated just ask the gas And if you are the ******* idiots calling for mcinnes head then sorry your not fans your just cocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Millen is the sole reason we are in this mess and he takes all the blame from me It a achievement we are out of the bottom 3 Mcinnes is fire fighting and the only reason we've made short term signings is to try and stay in this league The size of the squad our wage bill and the shit players other managers have sign is also to blame If we go down the road of sacking managers every 5 minutes then we may as well sell up shut down te club and watch downs football because it gets you no where bit relegated just ask the gas And if you are the ******* idiots calling for mcinnes head then sorry your not fans your just cocks Does this go for Millen being sacked after just over a year? Seems a major contradiction to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miketh2nd Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Isn't a bad fee at all for a rough diamond who hasn't had starts mainly due to rash tackles and league position I think could make championship standard in the next year or so. just a shame we didn't pick up Joe mason for 150k or craig Noone for just 30k! To be honest though Millen didn't have enough contacts hence we didn't sign any decent players after pitman and stead when we were just about living off being a mid table stable team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Does this go for Millen being sacked after just over a year? Seems a major contradiction to me! There's a few major differences. Millen knew the players inside out having already worked with them and had or should have had a wealth of knowledge of our players and problems Millen never attempted to rectify our problems -mainly because he didn't know what they were. Mcinnes has - problem is, it's too much change too soon but what else can he do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 I guarantee you that Andrew Taylor came to City for talks as I saw him at Failand with Millen.. So it wasn't just "chucking names around". He really did come.. He just chose not to sign. Who could blame him, Malky or Millen easy choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Casual Connoisseur Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Can't believe we paid £20k for Bolasie, they saw us coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Ryan Taylor at 150k is worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handballbygordonparr Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Millen is the sole reason we are in this mess and he takes all the blame from me It a achievement we are out of the bottom 3 Mcinnes is fire fighting and the only reason we've made short term signings is to try and stay in this league The size of the squad our wage bill and the shit players other managers have sign is also to blame If we go down the road of sacking managers every 5 minutes then we may as well sell up shut down te club and watch downs football because it gets you no where bit relegated just ask the gas And if you are the ******* idiots calling for mcinnes head then sorry your not fans your just cocks Please don't apologise - you are entitled to an opinion, just as I am. And I base my opinions on what I see not what I wish I had seen or hope I might see one day. I don't see any fight - fire or otherwise. In my opinion McInnes has not demonstrated the ability to sufficiently motivate these players (even his own signings) to keep us up - I really hope he can turn it around because I would rather not waste yet more money on a managerial change but it must be now - not by 're-building' in league 1. Again, in my opinion it is absolutely essential that we stay in this league (we know how difficult getting here was) and that may only be achievable with a new man and a honeymoon period. Today's loan signings may be his master stroke - or they may be all that was available on deadline day and no better than we have. Oh, btw, I am a fan, not a cock or a ******** idiot. That is only an opinion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 There's a few major differences. Millen knew the players inside out having already worked with them and had or should have had a wealth of knowledge of our players and problems Millen never attempted to rectify our problems -mainly because he didn't know what they were. Mcinnes has - problem is, it's too much change too soon but what else can he do? Millen had a year, in anyones book not enough time. People can berate him all they like. The board change the dynamics of the club and withdrew a lot of money. Millen had several of his targets down at the gate for talks. We can presume 1. They didn't like the club 2. they didn't like the manager and his vision, 3 They didn't like the area 4. they didn't like the money on offer. We will never know, but a lot of these players were down at failand being shown around. So to say Millen was not trying and didn't know what area needed strengthining is codswallop. The main problem as I see it he never had faith in any of Coppells signings, and would seem to have fallen out with some, probably because he hadn't signed them. he whole ethos of the club changed in the summer and what was stated by the board never materialised. Typically after the season tickets had been sold. Millen got a very short straw from the board. The players clearly did not like playing for him in the 2nd season and effectively lost him his job. Now these same players have been saying McInnes is brilliant, they are loving training yadda yadda yadda. low and behold, they are not backing that up on the pitch with passionless performances. Millen should have been given the money and the time to et rid of what he thought was deadwood, he was not afforded that luxury, due to previos incumbents and the board continually extending contracts of average footballers. Millen was left with a 40+ squad which he could not shift because most were crap, and no one wanted them, in turn he could not invest in areas he had most issues with as we had to be seen to sell before buying. So the guy was left between a rock and a hard place. Yes he can be called shite and blamed for everything. But for a rookie manager with all that going on around him, I really think he drew the short straw, especially considering the backing given to other managers in terms of money in previous pre seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Millen had a year, in anyones book not enough time. People can berate him all they like. The board change the dynamics of the club and withdrew a lot of money. Millen had several of his targets down at the gate for talks. We can presume 1. They didn't like the club 2. they didn't like the manager and his vision, 3 They didn't like the area 4. they didn't like the money on offer. We will never know, but a lot of these players were down at failand being shown around. So to say Millen was not trying and didn't know what area needed strengthining is codswallop. The main problem as I see it he never had faith in any of Coppells signings, and would seem to have fallen out with some, probably because he hadn't signed them. he whole ethos of the club changed in the summer and what was stated by the board never materialised. Typically after the season tickets had been sold. Millen got a very short straw from the board. The players clearly did not like playing for him in the 2nd season and effectively lost him his job. Now these same players have been saying McInnes is brilliant, they are loving training yadda yadda yadda. low and behold, they are not backing that up on the pitch with passionless performances. Millen should have been given the money and the time to et rid of what he thought was deadwood, he was not afforded that luxury, due to previos incumbents and the board continually extending contracts of average footballers. Millen was left with a 40+ squad which he could not shift because most were crap, and no one wanted them, in turn he could not invest in areas he had most issues with as we had to be seen to sell before buying. So the guy was left between a rock and a hard place. Yes he can be called shite and blamed for everything. But for a rookie manager with all that going on around him, I really think he drew the short straw, especially considering the backing given to other managers in terms of money in previous pre seasons More myths. The board treated him well - he had a huge squad, which they allowed him to add to, spending alot of dosh in the process. Once he got in players, which we didnt need he came out with "I need to sell before I buy" - so why bring in players that were not needed? a big **** up by millen. I read so many myths about his time as manager - never has a manager had so many excuses made for him. If he had ability, he had plenty of resources to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yea the board never backed Millen at all 300k stead 750k pitman 500k woolford 300k loan fee culker 150k loan fee spence 150k ryan taylor 20k balsie 12k a week in wages for kilkenny Yea never backed him at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 More myths. The board treated him well - he had a huge squad, which they allowed him to add to, spending alot of dosh in the process. Once he got in players, which we didnt need he came out with "I need to sell before I buy" - so why bring in players that were not needed? a big **** up by millen. I read so many myths about his time as manager - never has a manager had so many excuses made for him. If he had ability, he had plenty of resources to succeed. He spent when fire fighting the Coppell debacle. he was not afforded that luxury when trying to rebuild in 'his' pre season. How can you sell players that no one wants to make way for others to come in? His list (and not just the ones mentioned here) were all valid, we are not party to their reasons for not signing. Millen bought in Bolasie and Taylor for the future, as he saw talent there to work with, he always stated they were for the future. the outlay was negligable. he bought these two then was told no more money. So if there was no more money after 170k, pray tell how he could sign anyone of any quality? the Board effectively said work with waht you have got. It would appear the ball game changed midway through his pre season.... Once the season tickets had been sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yea the board never backed Millen at all 300k stead 750k pitman 500k woolford 300k loan fee culker 150k loan fee spence 150k ryan taylor 20k balsie 12k a week in wages for kilkenny Yea never backed him at all Again Monkeh doesn't read, and blurts out guff I stated in his pre season, not in his fire fighting year. When you try to build you start off the new season with your aims. The directors back those aims publically, saying money is there. The season tickets are sold, 170k is spend and a free transfer, and suddenly there is no money. it stinks and you know it does. but as usual, you just take parts of of what i write to back your argument, not the whole post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 500k for Woolford. That guy should never be allowed to manage again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pongo88 Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 Yea the board never backed Millen at all 300k stead 750k pitman 500k woolford 300k loan fee culker 150k loan fee spence 150k ryan taylor 20k balsie 12k a week in wages for kilkenny Yea never backed him at all Really good summary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted March 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 500k for Woolford. That guy should never be allowed to manage again. It was actually £300k and at the time I doubt too many thought paying that for a goalscoring left sided midfielder who is 25 with decent Championship experience was such a bad deal. That clearly isn't how it's turned out, though........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 500k for Woolford. That guy should never be allowed to manage again. He was scunnys player of the year, was theri top goal scorer and top assist maker. he turned to shite here. And stayed shite with 2 managers. he gambled on what looked on the face of it a great player, and what Scunny fans still think is a great player. Sometimes players are suited to one club and fail everywhere else ala Joey Beauchamp. Shit happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 He spent when fire fighting the Coppell debacle. he was not afforded that luxury when trying to rebuild in 'his' pre season. How can you sell players that no one wants to make way for others to come in? His list (and not just the ones mentioned here) were all valid, we are not party to their reasons for not signing. Millen bought in Bolasie and Taylor for the future, as he saw talent there to work with, he always stated they were for the future. the outlay was negligable. he bought these two then was told no more money. So if there was no more money after 170k, pray tell how he could sign anyone of any quality? the Board effectively said work with waht you have got. It would appear the ball game changed midway through his pre season.... Once the season tickets had been sold. What's selling players got to do with anything? He was allowed to bring players in - even when he claimed he wasn't, Sexstone come out and said he was. We had plenty of strikers and wingers at the time - they were the ONLY positions we didn't need. Say he was telling the truth, and he couldn't bring in anymore players - why spend the pittance he had on players we had plenty for? Why not bring in a left back - we had none and still have none good enough. A commanding centre back to replace caulker?? The whole time he was in charge he was guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRL Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 What's selling players got to do with anything? He was allowed to bring players in - even when he claimed he wasn't, Sexstone come out and said he was. We had plenty of strikers and wingers at the time - they were the ONLY positions we didn't need. Say he was telling the truth, and he couldn't bring in anymore players - why spend the pittance he had on players we had plenty for? Why not bring in a left back - we had none and still have none good enough. A commanding centre back to replace caulker?? The whole time he was in charge he was guessing. You can't force them to sign, the majority were down here for talks. They were frees as well. Kind of suggests the finances he had to work with. S left back a centre back and a creative central midfielder were musts, he got his midfielder, got a duff left back on loans after his other options turned us down, meaning he missed out on a centre back. Ever since we have been in this division our problem has been creativity and goal scoring, Millen tried to rectify that with strikers wingers an killa, clearly didn't work, but to suggest he didn't know what the problems were, and did nothing to rectify it is not entirely true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 22, 2012 Report Share Posted March 22, 2012 You can't force them to sign, the majority were down here for talks. They were frees as well. Kind of suggests the finances he had to work with. S left back a centre back and a creative central midfielder were musts, he got his midfielder, got a duff left back on loans after his other options turned us down, meaning he missed out on a centre back. Ever since we have been in this division our problem has been creativity and goal scoring, Millen tried to rectify that with strikers wingers an killa, clearly didn't work, but to suggest he didn't know what the problems were, and did nothing to rectify it is not entirely true. Had them down for talks blah blah blah. Were they the only players available? No. He supposedly had lists - problem was, those positions were never on the top of his priorities. Lots of things point to the fact he never knew the problems. He said Mcallister was brilliant. went into the new season with no new defenders and was surprised that they couldnt defend - even though he witnessed the same set of players struggle to defend a year earlier until caulker came in. He always thought that signing a forward would solve our problems - it never did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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