The Academy - Serious Questions Need To Be Asked

[NifflerNomad]

I was there too and heard the U9's was a very good game and pretty equal, this was from one of the City coaches. The U8's game Rovers were winning 4-1 with 5 minutes to go and drew 4-4 for several reasons.

MM

scarp that my son has informed me he plays for U8's been a long week

[SecretSam]

If what the OP says is true it is p45 time for that lot. A cclub like ours should hsve produced at least one home grown million pound player in the last 5 seasons

[bs3]

Moving the debate on from school boys to sixteen and above , the decline started with GJ he ignored all the young players and they were just given a chance . Under Wilson and then Tininion young players did get the opportunity of first team football.

[Sunday League Leg-end]

Just thought I might add my story to the thread as the time finally seems to be right.

In 2009 I had the opportunity to apply to the City academy so I did. The academy were advertising for goalies at the time. I was not invited for a trial but was invited to join the academy keeper coach on Saturdays along with some of the academy keepers for training. I was enticed in under the insinuation that for each keeper your progress would be monitored and if you improved enough you would be recommended to either Cheltenham, Yeovil or City's youth set ups.

I trained with the academy coach for the majority of the 09/10 season without getting anywhere and it cost a fair bit in subs payments too. I was told towards the end of the season that because I didn't live in Bristol, the academy wouldn't trial me (even though I lived within the regulation time/ distance to be eligible). He didn't seem bothered to recommend me to either Cheltenham or Yeovil either.

The next season I trialled for semi-pro side Halesowen Town and was signed for their youth team. I then noticed that the Rovers had a centre of excellence about an hour from where I was living and were advertising for keepers. I applied for a trial not thinking I would get in but sure enough I was offered a 6 week assessment period. After 2 of those weeks I signed on for them.

Sadly, my coach left at the end of that season so did I to go to UWE, where I'm now playing my football too.

Now say what you will about what I've written, i.e. Rovers academy must be a lower standard, you're just bitter about not making it...

No, not at all. I just think that my story is just another in a long line of potential talent being missed out on for either trivial or nonsensical reasons.

Well in your case, it's because you aren't good enough. No amount of coaching will make you good enough for pro or even semi pro

Just saying

[john shaws hair]

Moving the debate on from school boys to sixteen and above , the decline started with GJ he ignored all the young players and they were just given a chance . Under Wilson and then Tininion young players did get the opportunity of first team football.

great point , the under nines to sixteens seem to do well but players seem to strugle when making the step up from boys to mens football our recent decent runs in the fa youth would seem to galinize this argument

[BS10 RED]

After taking my son to the City academy/Evening post trail/training sessions last couple of years ive seen this for myself. A couple of youngsters i know have been told not good enough for City but then signed up to the Southampton academy the following week.

[eskay]

After taking my son to the City academy/Evening post trail/training sessions last couple of years ive seen this for myself. A couple of youngsters i know have been told not good enough for City but then signed up to the Southampton academy the following week.

Don't be too sure, the entry standard at Southampton is higher than City. You have to remember that southampton (Bath) is a devlopment centre and only a small percentage of the boys there are actually signed on. They take kids on and may keep them for several months to get a good view of them and if they feel they can work with them, only then do they sign them on to the Southampton Academy.

The setup over there knocks spots off of city, the communication is superb, weekly newsletters and regular feedback (plus free tea & coffee for the parents). Every triallist recieves a welcome pack and full training kit as well.

When my lad was at City I had to find Trevor Challis and he said welcome along - your lot trains over there. No forms, info etc.

[crusader]

There has been unrest at our Academy with Kirk's appointment.

They are having to call his position an Academy Manager (an admin post) as he hasn't the qualifications to be an Academy Director. He I believe is a Level 2 coach. In order to meet FA criteria they will need to appoint a Head Coach with a UEFA A Licence / Pro Licence

Seeing former City Pro players join the Academy Staff will benefit the youngsters, Mickey Bell etc

[Tonto]

There has been unrest at our Academy with Kirk's appointment.

They are having to call his position an Academy Manager (an admin post) as he hasn't the qualifications to be an Academy Director. He I believe is a Level 2 coach. In order to meet FA criteria they will need to appoint a Head Coach with a UEFA A Licence / Pro Licence

Seeing former City Pro players join the Academy Staff will benefit the youngsters, Mickey Bell etc

Interesting. I assume this will be the role we've offered to Willie Mcstay.

[citynut54]

I would do the following.

Get hold of Benny, tell him the job is his (if he wants it) to oversee the academy: what ever you need to get us a conveyor belt of talent, tell us, we will get in in place.

Our best run of youth hitting the first team came from him, giving them their chances, and we have gone back ever since.

Great shout!

[Rob k]

I see cardiff have yet another youngster who they expect to be another good player. Joe Ralls, who has come through the ranks after joining them when he was 16.

Hopefully we will see signs of a half decent player before to long but i dont hold my breath!!

[Sargent Pepper]

Did someone order an academy shake up?

http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10327~2794958,00.html

[fl22]

Anyone who thinks that Rovers has a better setup is completely incorrect. My son is at the City academy. They play top teams every week and are rarely outplayed even by Arsenal or Chelsea. In the older age groups they have had lads play in the reserves and who are internationals. Things really on the up there watch this space. P.S don't always believe the stuff about how good the ones who left were.

[angrybird]

I agree that the academy is a shambles having had experience at the hands of these people in charge, it is a case of your face fits and your prepared to lick ass to keep your son there. Changes do need to be made and a total overhaul of all the staff. Really unprofessional in how the kids are dealt with and how some of the coaches act.

[Harry]

Did someone order an academy shake up?

http://www.bcfc.co.u...2794958,00.html

Ok, I thought it was about time for me to come out of my extended holiday slumber and comment on the recent developments with the academy.

A few posters early in this thread noted that there were changes afoot - and we've now seen what I can only hope is the beginning of a total overhaul. The appointment of Willie McStay as Academy Head of Coaching is certainly one that sits comfortably with me. I'm also encouraged with the appointments of Alex Russell as Youth Development Phase Coach and of Marc Canham as Lead Foundation Phase Coach. I assume Canham's role is to take a serious look at players aged 8 to 11 and Russell's role is to concentrate on those aged 12 to 16, as well as managing the u-14's.

All 3 of these guys come with good references so I do hope this is the start of things to come.

It was also noted earlier in the thread that Tim Kirk is now the Academy Director, and I can ony assume that McStay has been brought in to act as the man with the official qualifications in regard to attaining our required status under the new rulings.

By the sounds of things so far, Kirk also comes with a good reputation, so again lets hope that the signs are good.

However, I refer back to an earlier post of mine. It's great to see some changes occurring but I want BCFC to give us more information generally surrounding all things Academy related. Take a look at our offical website. Go to the Who's Who (under the 'Club' dropdown menu). Tim Kirk is listed as Academy Director. But that's it. I want to know who else we have working for us. We now know that McStay, Russell and Canham are employed by us, but are John Clayton and Trevor Challis still part of the set-up? Or have they been released. We don't know? Who else do we have in roles at the Academy - I assume we have more than these 4 people working for us - I think Spurs have 200 staff working for their academy!!

This Who's Who also still lists Gary Owers (he left didn't he?) and Sexstone as Chairman (OK I know this is only a couple of days since his departure). Can this personnel list please be updated and inform us more about the Academy set-up we have in place.

Stay on the website. Now go to the Academy section under the 'Team' drop down menu. The last article here is dated 14th July 2011!! So, has nothing happened since last July? I'm sure there must be something we could have been updated with.

I see that there have been some articles each summer (written by Tim Kirk) regarding some of the boys travelling to various European competitions. This is great, but why can't we see more of this. I want to know what's happening week to week at each age group. I want to know how our kids are progressing.

Since my initial post, I am satisfied that changes are being made, but I now want the club to give us more. I want an interview with McStay, with Kirk and with anyone else in a senior position within the Academy. I want to know what they will be doing to turn around our poor history of producing first team players, what they're doing to ensure we attract and keep the best players in our region. I want to see regular updates on progress. I want to know when and where our kids are playing games and/or training, where they're touring and/or playing in competitions.

Whilst taking a jog around Greville-Smythe Park on Tuesday morning, I saw what I thought was Nigel Spink plus 2 other coaches training with a group of around 20 young goalkeepers. I was incredibly pleased to see this training session being put on for these kids on a bank holiday morning. But I had no idea this was happening, I don't know if it was a trial for any kids of any age, if it was a training session for current keepers at the Academy etc etc. As far as the official club website is concerned this didn't happen. Who knew this was happening? Are there potentially some excellent young keepers out there who weren't aware of this session that we may have missed out on had it been public knowledge?

I know that is only one example and I may well be totally wide of the mark, but I truly believe we need to get a hell of a lot more savvy in the communications department when it comes to the Academy. Why is the last update on the website from a year ago?

It looks like change has begun, but we need much much more.

I invite the club once again to tell us their Academy plans. Lets have interviews with the men in charge. Lets have a dedicated Academy website where we can all source information about the players we have down there and how they're progressing.

Whilst I'm at it, I also want to hear from the club about our Scouting network. On the Who's Who on the website there isn't anyone listed as a scout. Russ Richardson is listed as Head of Recruitment but that's all we know. Please can the club give us an idea of who is working for us and where they scout. I know that Richardson is based in the North West but what does he do up there? Do we have anyone else employed in any other part of the Country / Overseas? Has Richardson ever given an interview to Adam Baker?

I think this club need to be much more transparent in the area's of the Academy and of Scouting. I want to know who is responsible for the future welfare of our club and understand their mindset. Come on City - give us an open door.

Adam Baker - Head of Media - You do a great job interviewing the manager and players and commentating on the games, but get some interviews with some of the other guys I've mentioned. Update the website or get a new website set up specifically for the Academy. We need to see more change.

[numbeast]

Ok, I thought it was about time for me to come out of my extended holiday slumber and comment on the recent developments with the academy.

A few posters early in this thread noted that there were changes afoot - and we've now seen what I can only hope is the beginning of a total overhaul. The appointment of Willie McStay as Academy Head of Coaching is certainly one that sits comfortably with me. I'm also encouraged with the appointments of Alex Russell as Youth Development Phase Coach and of Marc Canham as Lead Foundation Phase Coach. I assume Canham's role is to take a serious look at players aged 8 to 11 and Russell's role is to concentrate on those aged 12 to 16, as well as managing the u-14's.

All 3 of these guys come with good references so I do hope this is the start of things to come.

It was also noted earlier in the thread that Tim Kirk is now the Academy Director, and I can ony assume that McStay has been brought in to act as the man with the official qualifications in regard to attaining our required status under the new rulings.

By the sounds of things so far, Kirk also comes with a good reputation, so again lets hope that the signs are good.

However, I refer back to an earlier post of mine. It's great to see some changes occurring but I want BCFC to give us more information generally surrounding all things Academy related. Take a look at our offical website. Go to the Who's Who (under the 'Club' dropdown menu). Tim Kirk is listed as Academy Director. But that's it. I want to know who else we have working for us. We now know that McStay, Russell and Canham are employed by us, but are John Clayton and Trevor Challis still part of the set-up? Or have they been released. We don't know? Who else do we have in roles at the Academy - I assume we have more than these 4 people working for us - I think Spurs have 200 staff working for their academy!!

This Who's Who also still lists Gary Owers (he left didn't he?) and Sexstone as Chairman (OK I know this is only a couple of days since his departure). Can this personnel list please be updated and inform us more about the Academy set-up we have in place.

Stay on the website. Now go to the Academy section under the 'Team' drop down menu. The last article here is dated 14th July 2011!! So, has nothing happened since last July? I'm sure there must be something we could have been updated with.

I see that there have been some articles each summer (written by Tim Kirk) regarding some of the boys travelling to various European competitions. This is great, but why can't we see more of this. I want to know what's happening week to week at each age group. I want to know how our kids are progressing.

Since my initial post, I am satisfied that changes are being made, but I now want the club to give us more. I want an interview with McStay, with Kirk and with anyone else in a senior position within the Academy. I want to know what they will be doing to turn around our poor history of producing first team players, what they're doing to ensure we attract and keep the best players in our region. I want to see regular updates on progress. I want to know when and where our kids are playing games and/or training, where they're touring and/or playing in competitions.

Whilst taking a jog around Greville-Smythe Park on Tuesday morning, I saw what I thought was Nigel Spink plus 2 other coaches training with a group of around 20 young goalkeepers. I was incredibly pleased to see this training session being put on for these kids on a bank holiday morning. But I had no idea this was happening, I don't know if it was a trial for any kids of any age, if it was a training session for current keepers at the Academy etc etc. As far as the official club website is concerned this didn't happen. Who knew this was happening? Are there potentially some excellent young keepers out there who weren't aware of this session that we may have missed out on had it been public knowledge?

I know that is only one example and I may well be totally wide of the mark, but I truly believe we need to get a hell of a lot more savvy in the communications department when it comes to the Academy. Why is the last update on the website from a year ago?

It looks like change has begun, but we need much much more.

I invite the club once again to tell us their Academy plans. Lets have interviews with the men in charge. Lets have a dedicated Academy website where we can all source information about the players we have down there and how they're progressing.

Whilst I'm at it, I also want to hear from the club about our Scouting network. On the Who's Who on the website there isn't anyone listed as a scout. Russ Richardson is listed as Head of Recruitment but that's all we know. Please can the club give us an idea of who is working for us and where they scout. I know that Richardson is based in the North West but what does he do up there? Do we have anyone else employed in any other part of the Country / Overseas? Has Richardson ever given an interview to Adam Baker?

I think this club need to be much more transparent in the area's of the Academy and of Scouting. I want to know who is responsible for the future welfare of our club and understand their mindset. Come on City - give us an open door.

Adam Baker - Head of Media - You do a great job interviewing the manager and players and commentating on the games, but get some interviews with some of the other guys I've mentioned. Update the website or get a new website set up specifically for the Academy. We need to see more change.

Excellent post. Like yourself I'd like more information on the club as a whole but particularly on the youngsters who should be our future and those who are there to develop them.

[Big Joe]

my son has been up with the free training days for the past 2 yrs and loved it, but as a goal keeper there was no training for them. when i raised the point i was looked at as if i was mental( goal keeper training at a football club are you mad). i then spoke to one of the coaches which i know and to his credit he sorted out some gk stuff with the reserve keeper for those who wanted it.

Why dont they go round to these local tournaments and invite the keepers up to a free training day,give them some advice and tips and then every so often ask them back where they can watch there progress, and pick the good ones.it would cost peanuts to do and you might find the next joe hart.#

or is that far to clever for our club?

[Kermit the Frog]

Ok, I thought it was about time for me to come out of my extended holiday slumber and comment on the recent developments with the academy.

A few posters early in this thread noted that there were changes afoot - and we've now seen what I can only hope is the beginning of a total overhaul. The appointment of Willie McStay as Academy Head of Coaching is certainly one that sits comfortably with me. I'm also encouraged with the appointments of Alex Russell as Youth Development Phase Coach and of Marc Canham as Lead Foundation Phase Coach. I assume Canham's role is to take a serious look at players aged 8 to 11 and Russell's role is to concentrate on those aged 12 to 16, as well as managing the u-14's.

All 3 of these guys come with good references so I do hope this is the start of things to come.

It was also noted earlier in the thread that Tim Kirk is now the Academy Director, and I can ony assume that McStay has been brought in to act as the man with the official qualifications in regard to attaining our required status under the new rulings.

By the sounds of things so far, Kirk also comes with a good reputation, so again lets hope that the signs are good.

However, I refer back to an earlier post of mine. It's great to see some changes occurring but I want BCFC to give us more information generally surrounding all things Academy related. Take a look at our offical website. Go to the Who's Who (under the 'Club' dropdown menu). Tim Kirk is listed as Academy Director. But that's it. I want to know who else we have working for us. We now know that McStay, Russell and Canham are employed by us, but are John Clayton and Trevor Challis still part of the set-up? Or have they been released. We don't know? Who else do we have in roles at the Academy - I assume we have more than these 4 people working for us - I think Spurs have 200 staff working for their academy!!

This Who's Who also still lists Gary Owers (he left didn't he?) and Sexstone as Chairman (OK I know this is only a couple of days since his departure). Can this personnel list please be updated and inform us more about the Academy set-up we have in place.

Stay on the website. Now go to the Academy section under the 'Team' drop down menu. The last article here is dated 14th July 2011!! So, has nothing happened since last July? I'm sure there must be something we could have been updated with.

I see that there have been some articles each summer (written by Tim Kirk) regarding some of the boys travelling to various European competitions. This is great, but why can't we see more of this. I want to know what's happening week to week at each age group. I want to know how our kids are progressing.

Since my initial post, I am satisfied that changes are being made, but I now want the club to give us more. I want an interview with McStay, with Kirk and with anyone else in a senior position within the Academy. I want to know what they will be doing to turn around our poor history of producing first team players, what they're doing to ensure we attract and keep the best players in our region. I want to see regular updates on progress. I want to know when and where our kids are playing games and/or training, where they're touring and/or playing in competitions.

Whilst taking a jog around Greville-Smythe Park on Tuesday morning, I saw what I thought was Nigel Spink plus 2 other coaches training with a group of around 20 young goalkeepers. I was incredibly pleased to see this training session being put on for these kids on a bank holiday morning. But I had no idea this was happening, I don't know if it was a trial for any kids of any age, if it was a training session for current keepers at the Academy etc etc. As far as the official club website is concerned this didn't happen. Who knew this was happening? Are there potentially some excellent young keepers out there who weren't aware of this session that we may have missed out on had it been public knowledge?

I know that is only one example and I may well be totally wide of the mark, but I truly believe we need to get a hell of a lot more savvy in the communications department when it comes to the Academy. Why is the last update on the website from a year ago?

It looks like change has begun, but we need much much more.

I invite the club once again to tell us their Academy plans. Lets have interviews with the men in charge. Lets have a dedicated Academy website where we can all source information about the players we have down there and how they're progressing.

Whilst I'm at it, I also want to hear from the club about our Scouting network. On the Who's Who on the website there isn't anyone listed as a scout. Russ Richardson is listed as Head of Recruitment but that's all we know. Please can the club give us an idea of who is working for us and where they scout. I know that Richardson is based in the North West but what does he do up there? Do we have anyone else employed in any other part of the Country / Overseas? Has Richardson ever given an interview to Adam Baker?

I think this club need to be much more transparent in the area's of the Academy and of Scouting. I want to know who is responsible for the future welfare of our club and understand their mindset. Come on City - give us an open door.

Adam Baker - Head of Media - You do a great job interviewing the manager and players and commentating on the games, but get some interviews with some of the other guys I've mentioned. Update the website or get a new website set up specifically for the Academy. We need to see more change.

Harry for president

[Monkeh]

If what the OP says is true it is p45 time for that lot. A cclub like ours should hsve produced at least one home grown million pound player in the last 5 seasons

cole skuse

[Kermit the Frog]

cole skuse

I think he's too inconsistent for £1million, certainly got the potential to be though

[madmax]

Whilst taking a jog around Greville-Smythe Park on Tuesday morning, I saw what I thought was Nigel Spink plus 2 other coaches training with a group of around 20 young goalkeepers. I was incredibly pleased to see this training session being put on for these kids on a bank holiday morning. But I had no idea this was happening, I don't know if it was a trial for any kids of any age, if it was a training session for current keepers at the Academy etc etc. As far as the official club website is concerned this didn't happen. Who knew this was happening? Are there potentially some excellent young keepers out there who weren't aware of this session that we may have missed out on had it been public knowledge?

.

Great post Harry and I agree with regards to comms from the club.

The above was J4K (Just 4 Keepers) in conjunction with Ashton Boys FC a local club. Wasn't anything to do with BCFC so not sure if Spink was there but if he was that would be excellent.

If anyone is interested in this, J4K are holding sessions every Monday evening in Greville Smyth Park. Contact them on 07889380862 or email jamescope@just4keepers.co.uk

MM

[Monkeh]

Max I pretty sure coaching courses are held through out the summer and they have been advitised on the offical site as will as the news letter and emailed from the supporters trust as well,

My nephew trains once a week at city on open courses as well which had been advitised on the offical site as well as match day programmes,

I'm not sure what else you want the club to do? put an advert on radio and tele perhaps?

[madmax]

Monkeh, was on about comms regarding the Academy as mentioned in Harry's post that the last time we heard something was 2011.

I know the club distributed about courses regularly, I get them all the time!

Thanks anyway!

MM

[II Wurzel II]

Newcastle took one of our youngters : http://www.nufc.co.u...2281670_2806122

[fl22]

I agree that the academy is a shambles having had experience at the hands of these people in charge, it is a case of your face fits and your prepared to lick ass to keep your son there. Changes do need to be made and a total overhaul of all the staff. Really unprofessional in how the kids are dealt with and how some of the coaches act.

[fl22]

I agree that the academy is a shambles having had experience at the hands of these people in charge, it is a case of your face fits and your prepared to lick ass to keep your son there. Changes do need to be made and a total overhaul of all the staff. Really unprofessional in how the kids are dealt with and how some of the coaches act.

I can't believe some of these posts. Yes not all kids are treated the same but it'd down to ability. If you're good enough your face fits.the academy part of the website says it hasn't been updated but if you go in there you'll find links to the latest news.in the past you would have seen the story of Joe Bryan getting into the first team, the boys who played in the reserves and those who've played for their countries. Final thought how would you feel as a member of our academy if you read these posts.would you feel part of a club pulling in the same direction.

[crusader]

McStays appointment as Head of Coaching is a positive move. with the support of Tim Kirk in his admin role

I think it will be two years minimum before we see the benefits at first team level

[eskay]

I can't believe some of these posts. Yes not all kids are treated the same but it'd down to ability. If you're good enough your face fits

I think if you are signed on then you should be treated exactly the same as another signed on player.

The reality of academies is that most of the kids there are there to make up the numbers but there will be one or two 'platinum' kids at most age groups who will probably go on to play professional football, the other kids are there to support those players by providing a team for them to play in. These one or two special players should however be treated the same as the others.

Triallists should be made welcome and their parents should have some kind of welcome meeting and an explanation of how long the trial period will be and what will be expected of the kids and parents during that time.

Final thought how would you feel as a member of our academy if you read these posts.would you feel part of a club pulling in the same direction.

I would perhaps take note of some real experiences of City supporters (some good, some bad) who have passed through the academy. The academy has been woeful in terms of output product and the day-to-day running, it looks like they are finally addressing this although we can merely speculate whether they would be doing anything at all had the EPP not be starting very soon......?

[fl22]

Eskay. Of course you're right and you seem to have a good grasp of how academies operate. Just trying to redress the balance of all the doom and gloom here.I see reasons to be optimistic and would like everyone to get behind our youngsters.

[crusader]

People who have their son released are never going to be happy.

At the end of the the day academy teams are there for just one person, the current best player (two at best). If your son is the best at U11 then the others are really making up numbers. If another lad overtakes in the pecking order at U12 the previous leading person joins the others.

Clubs have to get in large numbers lower down incase they unearth a gem. As someone at Blackburn said to me 'its a meat market' I don't diagree

There are benefits, the coaching at most academies is good and the players end up playing better football as an adult than they perhaps would have done had they not attended. On the flip there are players who get disheartened and give up the game as a result of being released, the FA are trying to address this with the introduction of psychology courses