screech Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Smash and grab on 45% possession, yeah right. You just don't like being found out about Liverpool constantly playing it about at the back for a third of every game fella! sour grapes! Are you having trouble with your eyes tonight? They adapted a different game plan in Europe. They mixed it up and found a way, like most great sides do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Are you having trouble with your eyes tonight? They adapted a different game plan in Europe. They mixed it up and found a way, like most great sides do. Grow up fella. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Grow up fella. Believe me, I'm bored of repeating myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Believe me, I'm bored of repeating myself. I'm bored of having to put up with childish digs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 I never said that Greece dominated possession did I. I said they kept the ball, and they did it well. You can keep the ball for long periods on 40-50% possession, it often happens. I thought they were brilliant and it was great that a smaller nation went out and won it. England won't win the Euros on 30-35% possession though. The key to Greece's success was that the coach was clever enough to change the shape of the defence to counter the opposition he was up against and his players were flexible and intelligent enough to adapt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Are you having trouble with your eyes tonight? They adapted a different game plan in Europe. They mixed it up and found a way, like most great sides do. i'm sorry but with every single bit of respect that I can humbly offer you, that is bullshit, Liverpool played the Liverpool way which was built on solid defence, possession including patiently playing it around at the back, pressure, a strong midfield with creativity and at least 1 but usually 2 players who scored more than their fair share for a midfielder and strikers who played for the team and not for themselves, just like Barca of course IMO. in fact the saying well oiled machine was one superlative that was widely bandied about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 i'm sorry but with every single bit of respect that I can humbly offer you, that is bullshit, Liverpool played the Liverpool way which was built on solid defence, possession including patiently playing it around at the back, pressure, a strong midfield with creativity and at least 1 but usually 2 players who scored more than their fair share for a midfielder and strikers who played for the team and not for themselves, just like Barca of course IMO. in fact the saying well oiled machine was one superlative that was widely bandied about. Well that's it then, game over. You said it's bullshit and that must be correct. The only thing you missed off the end to seal the deal was FACT. I wont say anymore on the matter, Liverpool had a different style for European matches, they had some great players all over the park who could adapt. They kept the ball very well in European games in particular because they were faced with teams who could do that to them, in the league they were very much more of an attacking side, this recollection of Liverpool knocking it backwards and forwards across the back has obviously stayed with you from their European nights where they did indeed keep it tight for 20 minutes, then they would play more open, the league matches were so very different. They adapted their game for the occasion. (I don't know if that is some kind of record for saying adapt in OTIB history) That's me done for the night on the subject, fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esmond Million's Bung Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Well that's it then, game over. You said it's bullshit and that must be correct. The only thing you missed off the end to seal the deal was FACT. I wont say anymore on the matter, Liverpool had a different style for European matches, they had some great players all over the park who could adapt. They kept the ball very well in European games in particular because they were faced with teams who could do that to them, in the league they were very much more of an attacking side, this recollection of Liverpool knocking it backwards and forwards across the back has obviously stayed with you from their European nights where they did indeed keep it tight for 20 minutes, then they would play more open, the league matches were so very different. They adapted their game for the occasion. (I don't know if that is some kind of record for saying adapt in OTIB history) That's me done for the night on the subject, fingers crossed. Well again the way I remember it was the only time Liverpool played with an out and out attacking style was against the poorer sides in the league, just like Barca do in their league, the rest of the games 75% at least were just patient, careful Liverpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duesseldorf Citizen Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Like what? Won nothing for 16 years. Yea they are always up there, but false statement. But reaching all those finals should not be forgotten. Many teams that wanted to never got so far.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Quarter Finals: France 0-1 Greece France had 11 shots to Greece's 5 France had 55% possession to Greece's 45% Semi Finals: Greece 1-0 Czech Republic Greece had 9 shots to Czech Republics 16 Greece had 48% possession to Czech Republics 52% Final: Portugal 0-1 Greece Portugal had 17 shots to Greece's 4 Portugal had 58% possession to Greece's 42% That is hardly dominating matches and controlling possession/keeping the ball for long periods. Lots of good stats there one more stat to add (only one that matters) euro 2004 winners Greece Just like chelsea in this years champ league played off the pitch v BM Barca Napoli End of the day they won thats all that matters SIMPLE Sport is ALL about winning Thats why they keep scores!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Lots of good stats there one more stat to add (only one that matters) euro 2004 winners Greece Just like chelsea in this years champ league played off the pitch v BM Barca Napoli End of the day they won thats all that matters SIMPLE Sport is ALL about winning Thats why they keep scores!!!! Second time youve ignored the point of the post your quoting. The point was made that Greece won by "keeping possesion". Not true, they had the minority of the possession in each game and won by sticking 10 men behind the ball. My family are greek so trust me, I remember it well! As for the comments about Germany, yes they've made the finals, but ultimately not won anything in recent history. That makes the statement "Germany win things" incorrect. Uruguay have won 2 world cups and many copa americas, but other than the last year or so I wouldnt class them as "winning things" these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lita For Congo Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Second time youve ignored the point of the post your quoting. The point was made that Greece won by "keeping possesion". Not true, they had the minority of the possession in each game and won by sticking 10 men behind the ball. My family are greek so trust me, I remember it well! As for the comments about Germany, yes they've made the finals, but ultimately not won anything in recent history. That makes the statement "Germany win things" incorrect. Uruguay have won 2 world cups and many copa americas, but other than the last year or so I wouldnt class them as "winning things" these days. Am i the only one that thinks playing the Greek/Chelsea way is, tactically, our best chance of making an impact? Chatting about it earlier in the pub and i got shot down but the only way we will get out the group and beyond is too be vile, nasty and gritty. I'd take that all day long aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshy Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Am i the only one that thinks playing the Greek/Chelsea way is, tactically, our best chance of making an impact? Chatting about it earlier in the pub and i got shot down but the only way we will get out the group and beyond is too be vile, nasty and gritty. I'd take that all day long aswell. No, if by that you mean making us tough to break down. I don't think we'll be as flexible with our defensive shape as were the Greeks who played 3,4, or 5 at the back as circumstances demanded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Am i the only one that thinks playing the Greek/Chelsea way is, tactically, our best chance of making an impact? Chatting about it earlier in the pub and i got shot down but the only way we will get out the group and beyond is too be vile, nasty and gritty. I'd take that all day long aswell. That is the only option in my mind. We dont have players with enough composure and technical ability to play keep ball. We dont have any real flair or skill players. What we do have (or definitely did before Cahill got injured) was a strong and organised back line, a confident keeper, a "breaker-up" midfielder and a bit of pace up front. Get 10 men behind the ball and use the counter attack, cant see anything else working with this squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted June 4, 2012 Admin Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 he has just tweeted ,what reasons? just after they anounced kelly as replacment Here's one Rio "you're a petulant little twerp so foxtrot oscar. Cheers". I never said that Greece dominated possession did I. I said they kept the ball, and they did it well. You can keep the ball for long periods on 40-50% possession, it often happens. I thought they were brilliant and it was great that a smaller nation went out and won it. England won't win the Euros on 30-35% possession though. And how often do England suffer 30-35% possession? I guarantee we will against Spain should we face them (as do many sides) but every other game will be significantly higher than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 And how often do England suffer 30-35% possession? I guarantee we will against Spain should we face them (as do many sides) but every other game will be significantly higher than that. Quite often, We managed to get 41% on Saturday and that was at home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 There's some spectacularly arrogant sh1t being flung about here; even for OTIB. So you're ignorant and unintelligent if you don't find Barcelona entertaining? Well someone better help me lace my shoes because I think they can be interminably dull. That's not to say I can't appreciate the beauty of the way they keep the ball and the technical ability of their players, I just find their style of play to be 80 minutes of knocking the ball about and 10 minutes of brilliance. Not all their fault of course, teams defend deep against them and it's inevitable that alot of time will be taken up trying to break them down As for England, they'll inevitably have to play deep and compact and couture attack. I really don't see why people have a problem with that; it's how many English club sides play and it best suits the players we have available. The only real problem I've had with the first 2 Hodgson games is the giving the ball away but Hodgson is renowned for giving players very specific jobs/instructions and if someone isn't doing their job they'll be told and if necessary, dropped. If anyone has any expectation of England playing like Barcelona or Spain then you're the one who's unintelligent FYI, Germany, Netherlands, Italy do tend to retain possession well but they also base their play on solid defence and breaking quickly- exactly what England are trying (not necessarily successfully) to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 There's some spectacularly arrogant sh1t being flung about here; even for OTIB. So you're ignorant and unintelligent if you don't find Barcelona entertaining? Well someone better help me lace my shoes because I think they can be interminably dull. That's not to say I can't appreciate the beauty of the way they keep the ball and the technical ability of their players, I just find their style of play to be 80 minutes of knocking the ball about and 10 minutes of brilliance. Not all their fault of course, teams defend deep against them and it's inevitable that alot of time will be taken up trying to break them down As for England, they'll inevitably have to play deep and compact and couture attack. I really don't see why people have a problem with that; it's how many English club sides play and it best suits the players we have available. The only real problem I've had with the first 2 Hodgson games is the giving the ball away but Hodgson is renowned for giving players very specific jobs/instructions and if someone isn't doing their job they'll be told and if necessary, dropped. If anyone has any expectation of England playing like Barcelona or Spain then you're the one who's unintelligent FYI, Germany, Netherlands, Italy do tend to retain possession well but they also base their play on solid defence and breaking quickly- exactly what England are trying (not necessarily successfully) to do I can't imagine there's anyone on here that expects us to play like Spain. All I ask is that we just keep the ball a bit better than we have showed lately. As you say, England will have to drop deep and counter attack, but counter attack with balls to feet rather than long aimless balls up to the striker/s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brizzle Jordan Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I can't imagine there's anyone on here that expects us to play like Spain. All I ask is that we just keep the ball a bit better than we have showed lately. As you say, England will have to drop deep and counter attack, but counter attack with balls to feet rather than long aimless balls up to the striker/s. If we play like the Italians when they won the world cup in 2006, I would be very happy. Solid in defence, winning 1-0 and going home as champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted June 5, 2012 Admin Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Quite often, We managed to get 41% on Saturday and that was at home! That wasn't your 30-35% though. PS My own research showed that we only had a mere 29% against Spain (when beating them 1-0) & greater than 30-35% in all other matches over the last 2 years so I would't call that "quite often". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I can't imagine there's anyone on here that expects us to play like Spain. All I ask is that we just keep the ball a bit better than we have showed lately. As you say, England will have to drop deep and counter attack, but counter attack with balls to feet rather than long aimless balls up to the striker/s. Like the goals we scored against Norway and Belgium? The ball retention was poor but it wasn't quite as bad as has been made out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 That wasn't your 30-35% though. PS My own research showed that we only had a mere 29% against Spain (when beating them 1-0) & greater than 30-35% in all other matches over the last 2 years so I would't call that "quite often". Ok, fair enough, we will see over the next couple weeks won't we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Like the goals we scored against Norway and Belgium? The ball retention was poor but it wasn't quite as bad as has been made out I think we see things differently, I think for an International team are ball retention is awful. People can dress it up however much they like but it's clear to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted June 5, 2012 Admin Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I think we see things differently, I think for an International team are ball retention is awful. People can dress it up however much they like but it's clear to see. For the figures I had at hand, (back to the France friendly) our average possession was 50% & that includes the paltry 29% we had when defeating Spain. I don't think anyone questions your assertion that we don't have players with the technical ability to retain possession better. If we did I suppose we'd be considered amongst the favourites for the tournament. However, what we do have at the moment is a fairly dogged set of defensive players and some pacey attacking options. I personally don't harbour any serious thoughts of winning the Euros but feel that our best method of progressing is to concentrate on those strengths. If we get through the group stage, & that remains in doubt at this stage, both our international & club sides over recent years have shown that they are capable of digging out a result with a backs to the wall performance. Afterall it's then only 3 matches & if you can defend well you give yourself a chance through finding a moment of magic from a matchwinner (which Young, Rooney & Gerrard are capable of in one moment) or from a set piece. But again, I do not expect this, just accept that it is possible. Sometimes the underdog prevails in football which is a reason many people love the game so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 For the figures I had at hand, (back to the France friendly) our average possession was 50% & that includes the paltry 29% we had when defeating Spain. I don't think anyone questions your assertion that we don't have players with the technical ability to retain possession better. If we did I suppose we'd be considered amongst the favourites for the tournament. However, what we do have at the moment is a fairly dogged set of defensive players and some pacey attacking options. I personally don't harbour any serious thoughts of winning the Euros but feel that our best method of progressing is to concentrate on those strengths. If we get through the group stage, & that remains in doubt at this stage, both our international & club sides over recent years have shown that they are capable of digging out a result with a backs to the wall performance. Afterall it's then only 3 matches & if you can defend well you give yourself a chance through finding a moment of magic from a matchwinner (which Young, Rooney & Gerrard are capable of in one moment) or from a set piece. But again, I do not expect this, just accept that it is possible. Sometimes the underdog prevails in football which is a reason many people love the game so much. I agree with what you say, defensively we look fairly good. The unknown factor is just how good the teams we are playing are. The other 3 teams in our group are not world beaters and the games will hinge on who takes there chances I guess. Let's hope we can, imo we need to be far more patient rather than looking for the killer pass every time we go forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Sometimes the underdog prevails in football which is a reason many people love the game so much. Yes, and in Rugby, just watched Scotland beat Australia,IN Australia !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipdawg Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I think we see things differently, I think for an International team are ball retention is awful. People can dress it up however much they like but it's clear to see. I don't think we do see things that differently actually, I just think that some of the criticism (and not just from you) has been basically complaining about the very strengths England need to play to. In an ideal world England would do this and still monopolise possession but that's just not going to happen so we perhaps need to accept that England may have to let their opponents have the ball One thing we no doubt do agree on is that certain England players who should no better gave the ball away too much attempting unnessecary 50 yard passes and that needs to change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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